gunsontheroof
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First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:00 am

Just posted on the Seattle Times website:



Employees of Spirit Aerosystems get a look at the forst Boeing Dreamliner shell during a rolling-out ceremony today in Wichita, Kan. The composite nose section for the new aircraft will be assembled in Wichita and shipped to the Seattle area where it will be mated to other assemblies.

Hopefully there will be more on this posted soon.
 
kaitak744
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:07 am

Wow, that looks unusually huge compared to those people. Looks more like the size of the A380.  Smile
 
airtran737
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am

Good to see the girl coming together. Let's get her assembled, and delivered ontime Boeing.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
ilikeflight
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:17 am

I cant take the wait I want to see one flying NOW!!!!!
Think Different
 
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ER757
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:18 am

I thought there was a nose section already put together and even painted. I remember seeing photos here on a.net because people were commenting about the size of the windows and the door openings etc. Was that just a demo and this one the real thing for aircraft #1?
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:25 am

Quoting ER757 (Reply 4):
Was that just a demo and this one the real thing for aircraft #1?

The impression I get from the news brief is that this is the first section that will fly. I do remember the sections you're talking about though...
 
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LTU932
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:28 am

Finally a picture of Section 41 of Line Number 1. Just 3 more months to go until rollout. Big grin
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting ER757 (Reply 4):
I thought there was a nose section already put together and even painted.

The nose section was assembled and shown to the public several weeks ago. If I understand this news correctly, this milestone represents the fact that the nose section has been fitted with the necessary wiring, landing gear, and other systems to represent the "completed" nose that will now go to PAE for mating.
 
747400sp
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:27 am

Wow! She has a huge nose cone like a 747 and she look like she will have a round wind shield like a 747, L1011,CRJ and E170 has. I like this jet! Big grin
 
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N328KF
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 8):
Wow! She has a huge nose cone like a 747 and she look like she will have a round wind shield like a 747, L1011,CRJ and E170 has. I like this jet!

Don't be fooled by the wide angle lens.
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centrair
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:01 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
has been fitted with the necessary wiring, landing gear, and other systems to represent the "completed" nose that will now go to PAE for mating.

No landing gear on that one. (see photo...it is still in a rig). Maybe they did the photo for the completed composite section and now they put in the other stuff.

I was under the impression that wiring and such happened at PAE. Wouldn't it be easier to send the mated sections to PAE and then put in the landing gear and wiring? How do you wire an incomplete tube...splice/electricians tape or connectors?
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DfwRevolution
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:41 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 10):
I was under the impression that wiring and such happened at PAE.

IIRC, the wiring for the initial 787 will take place at PAE. But once production levels ramp-up, wiring will shift to the subcontractors. The goal is for fuselage segments to arrive "pre-stuffed" so that final assembly will consist of "snapping" the parts together.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 10):
Wouldn't it be easier to send the mated sections to PAE and then put in the landing gear and wiring? How do you wire an incomplete tube...splice/electricians tape or connectors?

I would guess that wiring harnesses will be bundled together to form junctions that can simplify the mating process.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:55 pm

Awesome. I love this plane.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
BWIA 772
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:05 pm

Awesome the 787 rocks Big grin
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keesje
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:48 pm

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
scouseflyer
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:08 pm

Quoting ER757 (Reply 4):
I thought there was a nose section already put together and even painted. I remember seeing photos here on a.net because people were commenting about the size of the windows and the door openings etc. Was that just a demo and this one the real thing for aircraft #1?

I beleive that was one of the demonstration sections that was built to test the process - there were pics of a few painted test barells around a while back. This is first finished production front section.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:15 pm

wow, that's the cleanest gear bay I've ever seen! (the interior sides do look sorta plastic!) Not much in there other than the actual wheel assembly. Is this comparable to other aircraft?
 
MCIGuy
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:19 pm

That's just awesome! Finally, the first pics of real 787 assembly!  spin 
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Badge
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:27 pm

Id like to puchase that for my home but some how I think I would come up short in the penny department.
 
airtran717
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 1):
Wow, that looks unusually huge compared to those people. Looks more like the size of the A380.

Looks like some kind of wide angle lens used for the shot... giving way to what film makers call forced perspective. Just kind of an assumption from my point of view. It's being held up by some kind of hoist and there are tons of folks standing nearly underneath it. Not to mention the pic is shot from ground level.

[Edited 2007-04-17 15:40:59]
 
Norcal773
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting ER757 (Reply 4):
thought there was a nose section already put together and even painted. I remember seeing photos here on a.net because people were commenting about the size of the windows and the door openings etc. Was that just a demo and this one the real thing for aircraft #1?

I saw that one too, about 8 months ago. I believe that was a 'test section' like Scouseflyer pointed out. It looked real neat with paint on it.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
highflyer9790
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:19 am

WOW! looks amazing! i cant wait until rollout!!!  biggrin 
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firennice
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting ER757 (Reply 4):
I thought there was a nose section already put together and even painted. I remember seeing photos here on a.net because people were commenting about the size of the windows and the door openings etc. Was that just a demo and this one the real thing for aircraft #1?

Just show. Some were used to publicity, some for destructive testing. Some to show manufacturing ability. Some were actually scrapped parts just painted up.
 
khobar
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:38 am

Looks like a lot of rivets, if that's what they are. Screws, perhaps? Seems like a lot.

Also interesting - looks like someone was busy with a black Sharpie. What's that about? (many of the rivet/screws/whatever seem to be outlined in black marker).
 
iflykpdx
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:56 am

Awesome Big grin If only there were a back end view though...
Airport Management - UND
 
boeingbus
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 23):
Looks like a lot of rivets, if that's what they are. Screws, perhaps? Seems like a lot.

Those rivets are supporting the internal structures and possible reinforcements.

Quoting Khobar (Reply 23):
Also interesting - looks like someone was busy with a black Sharpie. What's that about? (many of the rivet/screws/whatever seem to be outlined in black marker).

Quality Control
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YYZYYT
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 23):
Looks like a lot of rivets, if that's what they are. Screws, perhaps? Seems like a lot.

Beat me to it.
In fact on the the top photo of post 14, it looks like there are lines of rivets attaching traditional plates. This is obviously not the case... so what are these lines of "rivets"?

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 16):
wow, that's the cleanest gear bay I've ever seen! (the interior sides do look sorta plastic!) Not much in there other than the actual wheel assembly. Is this comparable to other aircraft?

The doors are not on yet. My guess that closing mechanism and attachments will complicate the well a little. Also it may not yet be fully wired and plumbed.
 
Slcpilot
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:12 am

Odd things,

1 - based on the rivets, the fuse looks like conventional aluminum construction. I'm not saying that it is (because it's not), but it looks like it.
2 - the color of the gear well (the plastic look) is likely from an epoxy paint
3 - it doesn't look like there are fittings for the gear doors to attach.
4 - the sharpie marks are not uncommon, at least in my world. I have made many on the outside of my RV-7 as it's coming together as little notes to myself.

It's exciting to see it come together. It's still hard to believe that they're going to have an airplane to roll out in July. I still fret about the possibilty of some major technical difficulty delaying the program that has seemed to be run perfectly so far.

Cheers!

SLCPilot
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khobar
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 25):
Those rivets are supporting the internal structures and possible reinforcements.

I understand. I recall Boeing saying the design would reduce the number of rivets, not eliminate them altogether - I just was expecting a production piece to look a little less like a conventional aircraft.

As for the QC, that's what I figured though I'm curious what the markings are and why they are grouped as they are. Funny (to me at least) what I focus on.

Anyway, thanks BB.
 
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Tugger
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:28 am

Nice and amazingly real looking for a ghost plane. I wonder when Boeing is going to fess up and admit it's all a hoax. Might be never, the US government has never come clean about the moon landing hoax......
 Silly

Sorry, coouldn't resist!  Smile

I am amazed at how it is all coming together soo smoothly so far. I am sure there are thousands of overtime hours and sleepless night for the engineers and people building it but from the outside its simply astounding how trouble free its has appeared (yes, I am aware of all the people Boeings has thrown at the various problems that have popped up). And I am like SLCPilot, just holding my breath a bit. Till it rolls and flys I will find it hard to believe that Boeing got it so right the first time.

Tug
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AlecxiA319
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:35 am

look how clean...i thought that they were mistaken and then it was another aircraft...
because the windows and doors were small...but then again?
AlecxiA319
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 29):
Nice and amazingly real looking for a ghost plane. I wonder when Boeing is going to fess up and admit it's all a hoax.

 checkmark Agreed. Boeing is going to extraordinary lengths with this charade. biggrin 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
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Tugger
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:51 am

Tech question: What is the windshield (windscreen? window?) going to be made out of? How thick is it and how many layers? Just curious.

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
lehpron
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:22 am

Awe that's a great view.  Yeah sure Without the labeling and slight windshield, a regular guy could confuse this with a rocket.

The other pictures are okay, though, I would like to see a full-on side view.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
hb88
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 23):
Looks like a lot of rivets, if that's what they are. Screws, perhaps? Seems like a lot.

Also interesting - looks like someone was busy with a black Sharpie. What's that about? (many of the rivet/screws/whatever seem to be outlined in black marker).

Rivets. Probably securing the fuse skin to the interior nose-gear well structure. The black markups are most likely dud fasteners which need testing/replacing.

They're also an optical illusion as the 787 does not use rivets  Wink

Anyway, it does look cool. When I read the thread title, I did have the mental image of the section literally rolling off the line - sideways...
 
Boogyjay
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:44 am

I like the cockpit windows, it'll look cool I'm sure. They're non-opening windows, aren't they?

Quoting Khobar (Reply 23):
Looks like a lot of rivets

Indeed ! Rivets everywhere...

Quoting Khobar (Reply 23):
looks like someone was busy with a black Sharpie.

These are all the discrepancies this batch has  Silly ... Lots of work left to get a proper piece Big grin
 
airbusA346
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:59 am

How come the landing gear are already installed?  duck 

Tom.
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TeamAmerica
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:24 am

Here's a photo showing the full length of the 787 section 41. There had been debate as to whether this was a single barrel or a join of two sections. It's an extraordinarily long section 41; but it really is a single piece. checkmark 

Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
Rheinbote
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:27 am

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 26):
Beat me to it.
In fact on the the top photo of post 14, it looks like there are lines of rivets attaching traditional plates. This is obviously not the case... so what are these lines of "rivets"?

The forward lower lobe contains the nose wheel well which is a large metal assembly including aluminum (partial) frames riveted to the skin from the inside. Aft of the wheel well is the forward electronics bay with a large metal shelf/tray structure. Likewise, the cockpit crown has an aluminum interior substructure which is shoved in from the rear and again riveted to the skin...in a nutshell, there's a concentration of metal substructures in the nose section. Hence the concentration of rivets.
 
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Tugger
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 37):
It's an extraordinarily long section 41

What is it, about 40-42 feet long (12-13 meters for our metric cousins)?

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Rheinbote
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:47 am

What about the red irregular bands? I guess these are the demarcation lines between the OML plates attached to the barrel while it cures in the autoclave? Looks like five of these are used with S41, as opposed to four with the circular sections? Are the red colored areas some kind of filler or residue from sanding/polishing the 'seamlines' impressed by the OML plates?

Inquiring minds want to know...
 
Rheinbote
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 37):
Here's a photo showing the full length of the 787 section 41. There had been debate as to whether this was a single barrel or a join of two sections. It's an extraordinarily long section 41; but it really is a single piece.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/a...y/Boeing_787_Nose_Secti_Wall-2.JPG

Two observations:
1. For those who didn't believe the 787 fuselage has frames, just peek through the door opening. Likewise, you can easily see the corresponding lines of fasteners on the outside
2. The right end of the barrel suggests to me that one window will be missing where the circumferential joint between adjacent barrels is. No half-window cut out at the end of the barrel anymore, as opposed to earlier test barrels which had the joint running through the window. Does that mean one row of seats 'in the dark' at every barrel joint?
 
JeffB
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 41):
The right end of the barrel suggests to me that one window will be missing where the circumferential joint between adjacent barrels is. No half-window cut out at the end of the barrel anymore, as opposed to earlier test barrels which had the joint running through the window. Does that mean one row of seats 'in the dark' at every barrel joint?

Maybe that is where the lavs/galley areas will be?

Also, did the windows get smaller from concept to execution? Or is it a matter of scale? That was one of the selling points that impressed me about the 787! So.. are these windows any larger?
 
md94
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:39 am

Here is a story from the Wichita KSN News:

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/7051877.html


Boeing unveils Dreamliner production plans
WICHITA, Kansas, April 16, 2007 – It was a big day for Boeing. This afternoon, the aviation giant rolled out the nose section of its new 787 Dreamliner.

The nose is being built at Wichita's Spirit Aerosystems. You're looking at a first in commercial aviation technology. This nose section may not seem different, but Boeing expects it may change the industry.

"It's fantastic in its scale," Kurt Kraft, Boeing representative, said. "It's fantastic in its cutting-edge technology, and you should all be extremely proud."

We got a special look inside Spirit's plant Monday to see how this section of the Dreamliner is made. What's unique about this part, is that it is the first commercial nose section made completely out of state of the art fiber-engineered materials.

"There was a lot of people that didn't think you could produce a one piece fully composite airplane, but they did it, and they did a great job," Forrest Urban, Spirit director of operations, said.

It takes 30 different steps to make the nose section. It's 42-feet long, and measures 21 feet in diameter, a size that forced spirit to expand its floor space.

"We didn't have enough in this building," Urban said. "So for the clean room, that actually produced the barrel, we added 100,000 feet of brand new facility."

Spirit also added a few hundred new jobs for this project, and those workers will be in business for a while. Boeing already has more than five hundred orders for the Dreamliner.

"It's been a very exciting experience to be a part of the 787," Urban said.

From here, the nose section will head to Everett, Washington for final production, and you can expect to see the Dreamliner make its first flight later this year.
72?, 732/3/7/8/9, 763/4, 772/3, 744, 787, MD88/90, F100, 319/20/21, E145/135/175/195, CRJ200/700, B206, 152/72/8
 
remcor
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 38):
Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 26):
Beat me to it.
In fact on the the top photo of post 14, it looks like there are lines of rivets attaching traditional plates. This is obviously not the case... so what are these lines of "rivets"?

Remember, that's where the nose landing gear is. When the plane is on the ground that nose gear has to carry a lot of weight. And that landing hear has to be attached to the plane firmly, right? Naturally, I'd expect a ton of rivets and reinforcement right there.
 
ikramerica
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 28):
I just was expecting a production piece to look a little less like a conventional aircraft.

Well, expectations are a funny thing. If they were not based on reality, one is always going to be disappointed.

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 27):
1 - based on the rivets, the fuse looks like conventional aluminum construction. I'm not saying that it is (because it's not), but it looks like it.

No it doesn't. There are far, far, far fewer connectors in this section. Just because there aren't zero doesn't mean it's the same as a conventional aircraft.

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 27):
3 - it doesn't look like there are fittings for the gear doors to attach.

My guess is they will attach to the inside of the metal housing.

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 38):
in a nutshell, there's a concentration of metal substructures in the nose section.

Fire protection and faraday cages...

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 41):
Does that mean one row of seats 'in the dark' at every barrel joint?

I think most of the sections join near a door, where there wouldn't be a window anywhy. The picture we saw before of a join with a window was of a different section.

From this one section above, we can't determine that ALL joins will be solid, only that section 41 will be solid...

One example does not define a rule, especially when another example shows the opposite. But it seems likely they will try to avoid them as it makes a stronger connection, but I don't have access to the engineering of it, so who really knows?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
khobar
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:55 am

Quoting HB88 (Reply 34):
Anyway, it does look cool. When I read the thread title, I did have the mental image of the section literally rolling off the line - sideways...

Ouch - that is quite an image.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 45):
Well, expectations are a funny thing. If they were not based on reality, one is always going to be disappointed.

Expectations are indeed funny things.

I had assumed the fasteners were on the inside, that everything would attach to the internal structure.
 
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Tugger
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:07 am

Remember it wasn't that the rivets on the outside were a bad thing, it was the overlapping material that is required and the multi thousands of rivets adding weight that was the #1 reason to change. Airbus welds, Boeing decided to try a whole new material and paradigm. But both still use rivets throughout their aircraft.

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Lemurs
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:50 am

Quoting JeffB (Reply 42):
Also, did the windows get smaller from concept to execution? Or is it a matter of scale? That was one of the selling points that impressed me about the 787! So.. are these windows any larger?

It will be impossible to tell without seeing a picture at a relatively normal perspective with an object of reference size. Wide angle shots plus great distances between reference sizes (the people on the ground) and what you're trying to mentally measure (window size) means you're going to get visually fooled, guaranteed. You just can't depend on pictures like this to evaluate it.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
AAgent
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RE: First 787 Nose Section "rolls Out" In Wichita

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:44 am

Quoting JeffB (Reply 42):
Also, did the windows get smaller from concept to execution? Or is it a matter of scale? That was one of the selling points that impressed me about the 787! So.. are these windows any larger?

Those would appear to be the larger windows that Boeing promised, the ones that so many of us have desperately hoped for. I eagerly await the day that I see this bird soar into the sky for the very first time. And when it's my turn to ride, I can't wait to see the ground fall away from behind those beautiful windows! Great job, Boeing!

Best Regards,
AAgent
War Eagle!

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