CHRISBA777ER
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AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 pm

Hi Guys,

Anyone able to tell me anything definite on the fates of the AC Airbus widebody fleet?

I understand one of the A343s has gone to AR already, or is in the process of going. There are ten in the fleet at present I understand so can anyone tell me who is getting the rest? Presumably they are to be RTL and may well spend some time in the Desert until someone comes in for them. Did I hear rumours of LTU getting some A343s - could they be ex-AC birds?

What about the -500s? Might SQ or EK expand their fleet with them, or are they going to US?

There are eight A330-300s in the fleet - they will be gone inside two years I understand, who might be getting them?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
EI321
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:32 pm

The -500s were being advertised a while back. I believe Boeing either bought them or guaranteed their resale value as a condition of the 777/787 order.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:44 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):
The -500s were being advertised a while back. I believe Boeing either bought them or guaranteed their resale value as a condition of the 777/787 order.

Boeing knew that AC wanted to replace their aging fleet of 767s on a timely basis, so hence the sweetheart deal for the 787s, and that they weren't completely sold on Airbus for their wide-body fleet. It will be interesting to see what direction they also go on their narrow-bodied fleet of A320/A321s, when Boeing comes out with replacements for the 757 and 737 respectively.
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accargo
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:47 pm

Firesale? I don't know where you folks get this stuff. LOL. The 500's are on the market but are still a part of the schedule.

I believe fin 981 and 982 left already and good riddance, their performance was crap.

AC is using the others as always. With the introduction of the 777 to the fleet some 340's may be RTL as the leases end. AC may also extend the leases if it feels it needs the extra lift for existing or potential new routes.

Firesale. hehehehehe. Too funny.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting Accargo (Reply 3):
Firesale? I don't know where you folks get this stuff. LOL. The 500's are on the market but are still a part of the schedule.

I believe fin 981 and 982 left already and good riddance, their performance was crap.

AC is using the others as always. With the introduction of the 777 to the fleet some 340's may be RTL as the leases end. AC may also extend the leases if it feels it needs the extra lift for existing or potential new routes.

Firesale. hehehehehe. Too funny.

 Wink I thought they were crap gas guzzlers and AC couldnt wait to be shot of them? Thats what you get for spending too much time on here eh?

981/2 were A343s werent they? Were they the ones that went to BWIA?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Basefly
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:57 pm

I know That SK have are more than an little interested in getting their hands on some more wide bodies, The A340/A330 would fit perfect in the fleet.
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting Basefly (Reply 5):
I know That SK have are more than an little interested in getting their hands on some more wide bodies, The A340/A330 would fit perfect in the fleet

I wonder if SK may not totally dismiss the idea of the two A345s. Reason I say that is because their BKK and SIN flights have often been load restricted in the past as their A343E sometimes doesnt have the legs to do MTOW in the heat coming Eastbound against the winds. They carry an awful lot of cargo on these routes as well, and I just wonder if adding the 500 to their SIN/BKK schedules might not be such a bad idea. They have experience of the Trent from the A333s, and a type-rated A340 pool there and ready to go (short conversion notwithstanding).

Maybe even to add a weekly non-stop HKT flight in the peak season?

I know it makes no sense to have a subfleet of two 500s, but since when have SK cared about commonality in their fleet decisions?  Smile
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Basefly
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):
know it makes no sense to have a subfleet of two 500s, but since when have SK cared about commonality in their fleet decisions?

 checkmark 

An /500 might give them some ideas, They are starting an new Dubai route now, and the SK INT OPS maneger have stated earlier that he has at least 4 new long haul routes lying on his desk.

I would love to see SK counter the AY ekspansion  box 
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ManchesterMAN
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
I thought they were crap gas guzzlers and AC couldnt wait to be shot of them? Thats what you get for spending too much time on here eh?

Te A343 is actually a very fuel efficient aircraft, it just isn't as fuel efficient as the 777 but they they are still great machines for longer missions.
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EI321
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 8):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
I thought they were crap gas guzzlers and AC couldnt wait to be shot of them? Thats what you get for spending too much time on here eh?

Te A343 is actually a very fuel efficient aircraft, it just isn't as fuel efficient as the 777 but they they are still great machines for longer missions.

I think it was pointed out before that the A340-300 is actually more efficient than the 777-200ER, but the 777-200ER is more payload efficient on the longest routes. Im not sure how it compares to the 777-200LR on comparable missions, and the 777-200LR is obviously more efficient than the A340-500.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:34 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 9):
I think it was pointed out before that the A340-300 is actually more efficient than the 777-200ER, but the 777-200ER is more payload efficient on the longest routes.

The A343 has lower trip fuel burn, but it is a smaller aircraft than the 772ER. The adjusted figures for fuel burn per seat/per lb of cargo favor the 772ER, especially beyond medium-haul lengths.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 9):
Im not sure how it compares to the 777-200LR on comparable missions, and the 777-200LR is obviously more efficient than the A340-500.

Despite being heavier than a 772ER, the 772LR will burn less fuel on just about any mission longer than 4,500 nautical miles. At that point, it would also be considerably more fuel efficient than an A343.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 8):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
I thought they were crap gas guzzlers and AC couldnt wait to be shot of them? Thats what you get for spending too much time on here eh?

Te A343 is actually a very fuel efficient aircraft, it just isn't as fuel efficient as the 777 but they they are still great machines for longer missions.

I know mate - was being sarcastic.  Wink
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
bakersdozen
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:58 pm

There was some talk last week of one of the AC 340-500's going to US Airways wasn't there?
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 9):

I think it was pointed out before that the A340-300 is actually more efficient than the 777-200ER, but the 777-200ER is more payload efficient on the longest routes.

I thought that's the case with A330 not A340. That's one of the reason SQ dumped their A343

Cheers,
PP
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ikramerica
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 8):
Te A343 is actually a very fuel efficient aircraft, it just isn't as fuel efficient as the 777 but they they are still great machines for longer missions.

Especially when acquired at the right price.

A lot of the reason the A340 is "crap" is that at the price they were acquired at, they cost too much to fly and in depreciation/lease expense.

But on the used market, if the rates are set low, it can make up for the operation costs, especially for carriers that can't afford a new aircraft of that size/class anyway.
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BrianDromey
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):
I know it makes no sense to have a subfleet of two 500s, but since when have SK cared about commonality in their fleet decisions?

There was news that SK wanted to sublease a single A346 from LH. Perhaps the two A345s could make sense. I think SK are looking to add more frames for longhaul. There is also a clause in teh pilots contract, to do with expansion before then end of the year. But true to form SK will prob order 2 777-200LR's instead!  Wink

Might US get the A345? Who knows.

I should think that these aircraft will stay within the Star Alliance. Perhaps SAA would also be interested. If one airline could get hold of the TG and AC frames they would have a large fleet of A345's (as A345 fleets go!)

Brian
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
There are eight A330-300s in the fleet - they will be gone inside two years I understand, who might be getting them?

The 333s are still very efficient aircraft and will stay around till the 787s arrive.
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YVRLTN
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:15 am

I thought it was a done deal some 343's were going to LX??
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RedChili
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):
Reason I say that is because their BKK and SIN flights have often been load restricted in the past as their A343E

They've stopped flying to SIN, and I believe their 340s are A343X.
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sandrozrh
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 17):
I thought it was a done deal some 343's were going to LX??

Only one is! LX has made clear that they are not interested to acquire any further ex-AC A343s and rather went for the two ex-OS birds. LX has recently expressed the interest to replace some of the A332s with A333s as the leases of some A332s are expiring in 2009 (i believe), to increase capacity especially to key destinations such as JFK. Seems like some ex-AC A333s could be in the cards.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:52 am

www.airfleets.net does not list any out of the fleet at this point.

Whatever deal has been negociated, I think the last place where we might see them is in the desert as suggested earlier in this thread. AC is in need of EXPANSION anyways, so you don't actually expand by sending your hardly needed frames in VCV...
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vega
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 20):
www.airfleets.net does not list any out of the fleet at this point.

Whatever deal has been negociated, I think the last place where we might see them is in the desert as suggested earlier in this thread. AC is in need of EXPANSION anyways, so you don't actually expand by sending your hardly needed frames in VCV...

The 2 AC 340-500s are available from several companies for Long Term Leasing starting in September 2007. I'd assume they'd see service with AC until August/September. US Airways is possibly negotiating a lease for them. IF US actually chose the A350-XWB over the 787 (which we should know shortly), then I assume it's possible Airbus could provide something instead as part of the deal. These 340s are expected to be used by US for Asia expansion.
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neednewairport
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:32 am

US is in desperate need of widebody aircraft for a variety of reasons. Airbus cannot get us new aircraft fast enough, so we are looking to pick up some of AC 340's as an interm solution. This of course, is all rumor. We also, have supposedly choosen the A350EWB over the 787.....but who knows this industry not only runs on kerosene it also runs on rumors.
 
dank
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 19):
LX has recently expressed the interest to replace some of the A332s with A333s as the leases of some A332s are expiring in 2009 (i believe), to increase capacity especially to key destinations such as JFK. Seems like some ex-AC A333s could be in the cards.

This is good to hear. I was wondering if LX had been considering some 333s for some of the shorter higher demand routes.

cheers.
 
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:46 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 9):
I think it was pointed out before that the A340-300 is actually more efficient than the 777-200ER

It isn't. It burns less on an absolute basis because it is smaller. The 772ER's CASM is lower.
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MEACEDAR
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:55 am

I think some of the AC A340s are going to US, no?
 
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zeke
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):

It isn't. It burns less on an absolute basis because it is smaller. The 772ER's CASM is lower.

That depends on the number of seats installed, hence Seat Mile.
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brilondon
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:14 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 20):
Whatever deal has been negociated, I think the last place where we might see them is in the desert as suggested earlier in this thread. AC is in need of EXPANSION anyways, so you don't actually expand by sending your hardly needed frames in VCV...

If they can a good price for them they would sell them in a heart beat.  bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup 
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ruslan
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:57 am

Anyone know where 9Y-JIL has gone to??? Was acquired from AC for BW but now JIL's out of BW's fleet..returned to lessors?? SOld??
 
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:06 am

Quoting Ruslan (Reply 28):
Anyone know where 9Y-JIL has gone to??? Was acquired from AC for BW but now JIL's out of BW's fleet..returned to lessors?? SOld??

9Y JIL was an ex virgin aircraft G VSKY
9Y TJN was ex AC bird C FNTP which will be leaving CAL the end of the month. She should be heading to Montreal for D check before going to AR.

The A340s did not fit BW route network that well that along with the losses that they were making on the LHR route led to the decision of Caribbean Airlines the new airline that replaced BWIA to get rid of both the LHR route and the A340. It also appears that JM is going to look dump the A340 once they find a replacement aircraft.
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Thorben
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:17 pm

AC is to get another 7 or 8 T7s this year, if they sell one A340 for each, then they'll drop almost all of them. However, I'm not really worried about them, there'll be new homes for them, US, LT, there are rumors about PG wanting A340s to bridge the gap until the A350 arrives, and probably some other carriers will make good use of them. They are fine aircraft and a comparison with the ten years newer 777NG is somewhat lame.
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avion660
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:57 pm

There's been quite a bit of discussion in these two posts about some AC A343's going to LAN:
LAN Plans To Order 24 Aircraft, Incl. 15 A32S. (by Manni Mar 7 2007 in Civil Aviation) LAN Plans: 50 New A/C And Non Stop SCL/JFK-LAX (by Arcano Apr 7 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Latest news from one source (albeit not official LAN) is that 5 A343 will arrive there in June. More of the eternal 777/A340 battle also on those threads!
 
Thorben
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:22 pm

Quoting Avion660 (Reply 31):
Latest news from one source (albeit not official LAN) is that 5 A343 will arrive there in June. More of the eternal 777/A340 battle also on those threads!

I read recently that LAN will get four new A343s from Airbus.

In ten years, we'll have the eternal 787/A350 battle on a.net.
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jfk777
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:14 pm

Its interesting to see how the first truly "new" fleet of Airbus A340 is getting dispersed in its second life. Some operators of A340 like AR want everything they can get a hold of, other just want their 777(Singapore Airlines). Its sad to see the dissapointment witht the A345 many airline are having including Thai and Air Canada.
 
FLYACYYZ
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AC//77W Being Fast-tracked Into Revenue Service

Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:40 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 21):
The 2 AC 340-500s are available from several companies for Long Term Leasing starting in September 2007. I'd assume they'd see service with AC until August/September.

Concurrent with the 77L move onto the HKG route, the 345's are operating daily YYZ-PVG flights until October 27th. Can't see the aircraft being released from the fleet without a major scheduling/service disruption until the end of the Summer schedule.

My gut feeling is that they will wind up in the hands of US.

[Edited 2007-04-18 14:43:02]
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MCOflyer
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 34):


My gut feeling is that they will wind up in the hands of US.

I believe they will. US will definately be putting in bids for these.

MCOflyer
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CF-CPI
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:45 am

About relative fuel efficiency:

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 13):
I thought that's the case with A330 not A340. That's one of the reason SQ dumped their A343

At the time NW finalized the purchase of A330-300s, there was a good deal of chatter here about it's efficiency vis-a-vis a 777. NW issued a detailed analysis of the advantage (for them) of opting for the A330 in the context of North Atlantic routes. So I suspect that in certain cases, the A330 can offer an advantage over its rivals, though purchase price must also be factored in. As for the A340, I would guess that on these 4000-5000 nm trips, it's not as efficient as its twin-engine counterpart.
 
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 9):
I think it was pointed out before that the A340-300 is actually more efficient than the 777-200ER, but the 777-200ER is more payload efficient on the longest routes. Im not sure how it compares to the 777-200LR on comparable missions, and the 777-200LR is obviously more efficient than the A340-500.

Did AC buy the 777-200ER? I thought they bought the 777-300ER.
 
EI321
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 37):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 9):
I think it was pointed out before that the A340-300 is actually more efficient than the 777-200ER, but the 777-200ER is more payload efficient on the longest routes. Im not sure how it compares to the 777-200LR on comparable missions, and the 777-200LR is obviously more efficient than the A340-500.

Did AC buy the 777-200ER? I thought they bought the 777-300ER.

They did not buy the 200ER, I used it because its the closest 777 to the A340-300 in terms of size, payload & range.
 
Qantas744er
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 15):
There was news that SK wanted to sublease a single A346 from LH

No way that is going to happen... sounds like a stupid rumor to me!

LH desperately need as many long haul planes as possible in this moment, especially because they have just introduced two new flights: MUC-DEN-MUC 7/7 and MUC-ICN-PUS-ICN-MUC 3/7. They are taking delivery of new A340-600's again which will bring the total up to 17 A346's and will also take 5 new A333's bringing the total up to 15.

The LH summer schedule is super busy and two 744's are currently undergoing D-checks meaning the Long Haul fleet is already a little weakend for a month or two to come.

Im not trying to be harsh in any way  Smile but this must be some stupid rumor again  Silly

Where did u get the info. from if u don't mind me asking?

Leo
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OceansWorld
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:40 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
I understand one of the A343s has gone to AR already, or is in the process of going. There are ten in the fleet at present I understand so can anyone tell me who is getting the rest?



Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 19):
Only one is! LX has made clear that they are not interested to acquire any further ex-AC A343s and rather went for the two ex-OS birds. LX has recently expressed the interest to replace some of the A332s with A333s as the leases of some A332s are expiring in 2009 (i believe), to increase capacity especially to key destinations such as JFK. Seems like some ex-AC A333s could be in the cards.

Here are the details of the newLX A343s additions. The first is ex. AC C-FYKX.

HB-JMJ / MSN150 / 13.07.2007
HB-JML / MSN263 / 10.09.2007
HB-JMK / MSN169 / Feb. 2008
 
flysherwood
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 30):
They are fine aircraft and a comparison with the ten years newer 777NG is somewhat lame

You are correct on the A343 but not the A345's. As EI321 says above. Compare the A343 with the 777-200ER. The A345 should be compared with the 777-300ER.And unfortunately, hands down, it loses very badly in the second scenario.
 
donder10
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 44):
The A345 should be compared with the 777-300ER.And unfortunately, hands down, it loses very badly in the second

The A346 competes with the 773ER ,not the 345.
 
flysherwood
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 45):
The A346 competes with the 773ER ,not the 345.

Did AC buy the A346? I thought they only bought the A345?
 
OceansWorld
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 46):
Did AC buy the A346?

Yes, AC ordered three of them back in 1997 as a launch customer. They were never delivered though.
 
flysherwood
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 47):
Yes, AC ordered three of them back in 1997 as a launch customer. They were never delivered though.

Since we are talking about AC, it is pretty hard to compare the 773ER with a plane that was never delivered to them. But I am pretty sure that they in fact did have some A345.
 
OceansWorld
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:35 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 48):
But I am pretty sure that they in fact did have some A345

Both were ordered at the same time as the A346 to enter service in 2002 but arrived only in 2004.


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beechnut
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RE: AC's Airbus Firesale

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:58 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 37):
Did AC buy the 777-200ER? I thought they bought the 777-300ER.

And the 777-200LR

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