ATA767
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ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:07 pm

ATA will be getting rid of their 737-300's and as a result, trip the LGA-HOU route. That was pretty short lived and give JetBlue the edge once again. ATA always seems to enter into markets only long enough to pull out. I guess we will have to see what is nest for them!
 
co777er
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:08 pm

Did WN have any connecting flights on that route? Or are they through MDW?
 
drerx7
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:18 pm

Quoting ATA767 (Thread starter):
ATA will be getting rid of their 737-300's and as a result, trip the LGA-HOU route. That was pretty short lived and give JetBlue the edge once again. ATA always seems to enter into markets only long enough to pull out. I guess we will have to see what is nest for them!

They used 738s on the route though, and what about the WN feed? They went from doing well on the route to halting it--did JetBlue's entrance really put a dent in them that much? Maybe we'll see JetBlue put 320s back on the route as a result.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
SESGDL
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:24 pm

What routes does TZ still serve? It seems like they only serve a handful of markets now. Sad, TZ always provided me with good service in the past. I miss their MSP-MDW flights.

Jeremy
 
jc2354
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:29 pm

Quoting ATA767 (Thread starter):
ATA will be getting rid of their 737-300's

Those didn't last long. Where are they going?
If not now, then when?
 
Cory6188
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:29 pm

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 2):
did JetBlue's entrance really put a dent in them that much?

Well, CO also serves LGA-IAH, and they protect their hubs fiercely, so I'm sure that CO's presence on the route contributed to some extent to TZ's decision.
 
DL777LAX
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:35 pm

did people in either Houston or New York know they were an option? If they didn't I would be willing to wager a bet on thats why they pulled out.
Blindly following anything is bad, unless of course your blind and your following a guide dog.
 
cba
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:45 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 5):
Well, CO also serves LGA-IAH, and they protect their hubs fiercely, so I'm sure that CO's presence on the route contributed to some extent to TZ's decision.

CO has an immense number of dailies from IAH-NYC: I'd wager 20 overall between EWR, LGA and JFK. Let's also not forget that AA operates HOU-LGA iirc.

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 5):
did people in either Houston or New York know they were an option? If they didn't I would be willing to wager a bet on thats why they pulled out.

I'd never heard of this route until now. Most Houstonians fly CO and WN religiously.
 
n844aa
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting Cba (Reply 7):
CO has an immense number of dailies from IAH-NYC: I'd wager 20 overall between EWR, LGA and JFK. Let's also not forget that AA operates HOU-LGA iirc.

Not anymore. They dropped this route about a year ago. I'd love to see it come back, although I'm not sure why: I've switched most of my flying to CO and LGA-IAH works perfectly well for me.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:54 pm

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 6):
did people in either Houston or New York know they were an option? If they didn't I would be willing to wager a bet on thats why they pulled out

If us locals didn't know who do you blame that on.......I'd say ATA and no advertising. I mean if you are gonna play in a market that is dominated by a HUB carrier in their HUB city let alone at both ends, you best bring your A game to the coral, and then you think because it is HOU you are going to fly to, then Southwest appears and you still don't advertise!
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:57 pm

Sad to see HOU lose another carrier. Like Midwest, TZ now joins a growing list carriers since deregulation that simply could not make HOU work. I hope that B6 is more successful.

So, when will TZ officially cease HOU ops?

Quoting Cba (Reply 7):
'd never heard of this route until now

Its been the subject of a few threads here over the last year or so.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
XJetflyer
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:59 pm

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 6):

Never knew they were offering that route either. CO and XJT get most of my business. WN is a no-no for my family!
 
DL777LAX
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:11 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 9):

If us locals didn't know who do you blame that on.......I'd say ATA and no advertising.

I wasn't trying to blame it on the locals. I agree that its totally ATA's fault that they didn't advertise. It seems like common sense, so why do soooo many companies seem to act like they have none?
Blindly following anything is bad, unless of course your blind and your following a guide dog.
 
Mir
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:48 pm

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 6):
did people in either Houston or New York know they were an option?

This New Yorker didn't. I thought the only airline that flew from New York to Hobby was B6.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
MSYtristar
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:35 pm

I called this one almost immediately after it was announced. Two airlines flying NYC-Hobby is one too many. Advertising or not, you'd think that with the amount of people living in both cities that it wouldn't be very hard to fill a couple of 737's, epecially with the WN connecting traffic. Obviously that traffic was minimal at best. Houston flyers have a ton of nonstop options to the New York area, so this isn't really a huge loss for them. Let's face it...in Houston...if you don't have a globe on your tail or the words "Southwest" on there, you're just a small time player with not a lot of chance for growth and/or success.
 
ATA767
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:49 pm

I think it had a lot to do with JetBlue's entrance into the market. TZ was packed from day one on that route and did not need to be advertised. They also had the WN feed and the right sized A/C for the route. They also only had 2 flights so I would think that it did not provide as many option to their customers.

JetBlue's entrance really hurt them and they did nothing to defend the market (not sure they really could) so now with the returning of the 733s they will probably add more capacity to MDW-LGA and call it a day as they always seem to do that as they pull down routs out of LGA (IND, PIE,SFO) as they are still contending with Delta's entrance into that route.

[Edited 2007-04-18 16:01:19]
 
NYCTZ
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:52 pm

The route started very strong in May and stayed strong through Sept. After that the loads fell off a cliff and rock bottom fares took over . There were a few heavy periods through the holidays and we have been absolutely jam-packed for the last 6 weeks during spring break. There was a fair amount of print advertising early on and I know another campaign ran after JB started their service in Sept. Rock bottom fares continue to rule and although the flights are full, yeilds on this route and the removal of the 733's from the fleet have resulted in its demise. There are alot of connectors to SWA on this route. They will most likely be rerouted through MDW.

We made it last for a year. I must say that our Houston passengers were some of the most pleasant I've encounterd during 17 years of flying and will be missed!
 
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flying_727
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 2):
They used 738s on the route though,

Right, but they need the 738's to replace the 733's on the MDW to DFW, DCA, & LGA routes.
On ATA, You're On Vacation
 
drerx7
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:11 pm

Hate to see TZ go - I remember seeing themsub 752s and 753s on the route from time to time.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
philhyde
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:33 am

Bummer. We will miss you, TZ!


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philhyde
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:55 am

Bummer. We will miss you, TZ!


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philhyde
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:25 am

Bummer. We will miss you, TZ!


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philhyde
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:16 am

Bummer. We will miss you, TZ!


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TZTriStar500
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting Jc2354 (Reply 4):
Those didn't last long. Where are they going?

402 and 403 will be going to FlyLAL (Lithuanian Airlines). 402 leaves in May and 403 in Sept. 401 is still being worked out with the lessor.

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 5):
Well, CO also serves LGA-IAH, and they protect their hubs fiercely, so I'm sure that CO's presence on the route contributed to some extent to TZ's decision.



Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 6):
did people in either Houston or New York know they were an option? If they didn't I would be willing to wager a bet on thats why they pulled out.



Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 9):
If us locals didn't know who do you blame that on.......I'd say ATA and no advertising. I mean if you are gonna play in a market that is dominated by a HUB carrier in their HUB city let alone at both ends, you best bring your A game to the coral, and then you think because it is HOU you are going to fly to, then Southwest appears and you still don't advertise!



Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 10):
So, when will TZ officially cease HOU ops?

You all are reading too much into this. Yes, competition on the route was fierce and it had great loads intially, but the main reason for dropping it was returning the aircraft since a 3 aircraft sub-fleet is not cost efficient. Returning the aircraft is only capable if one aircraft's worth of flying is cancelled. The weakest route happened to by LGA-HOU and thus its ending May 7. Since the September 2006 entrance of B6, this route has been difficult.

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 12):
I wasn't trying to blame it on the locals. I agree that its totally ATA's fault that they didn't advertise. It seems like common sense, so why do soooo many companies seem to act like they have none?

Ahh yes, and you are the marketing expert. Why would TZ want to spend precious marketing dollars on a two flight route between two points where neither of them are a hub? The cost far outweighs the benefit here. Airlines do not have endless marketing budgets, one must pick their battles where it can gain the most benefit. This route was intended on taking advantage of the WN codeshare and WN chose not to advertise it either so its not a HUGE loss. Yes, the airline never wants to leave a market, but it happens...that's what competition is about and is very prevalent in this business, just look at AirTran.

TZ is holding its own and there will be more market additions in the future that expand on the WN codeshare.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Jc2354 (Reply 4):
Those didn't last long. Where are they going?

402 and 403 will be going to FlyLAL (Lithuanian Airlines). 402 leaves in May and 403 in Sept. 401 is still being worked out with the lessor.

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 5):
Well, CO also serves LGA-IAH, and they protect their hubs fiercely, so I'm sure that CO's presence on the route contributed to some extent to TZ's decision.



Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 6):
did people in either Houston or New York know they were an option? If they didn't I would be willing to wager a bet on thats why they pulled out.



Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 9):
If us locals didn't know who do you blame that on.......I'd say ATA and no advertising. I mean if you are gonna play in a market that is dominated by a HUB carrier in their HUB city let alone at both ends, you best bring your A game to the coral, and then you think because it is HOU you are going to fly to, then Southwest appears and you still don't advertise!



Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 10):
So, when will TZ officially cease HOU ops?

You all are reading too much into this. Yes, competition on the route was fierce and it had great loads intially, but the main reason for dropping it was returning the aircraft since a 3 aircraft sub-fleet is not cost efficient. Returning the aircraft is only capable if one aircraft's worth of flying is cancelled. The weakest route happened to by LGA-HOU and thus its ending May 7. Since the September 2006 entrance of B6, this route has been difficult.

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 12):
I wasn't trying to blame it on the locals. I agree that its totally ATA's fault that they didn't advertise. It seems like common sense, so why do soooo many companies seem to act like they have none?

Ahh yes, and you are the marketing expert. Why would TZ want to spend precious marketing dollars on a two flight route between two points where neither of them are a hub? The cost far outweighs the benefit here. Airlines do not have endless marketing budgets, one must pick their battles where it can gain the most benefit. This route was intended on taking advantage of the WN codeshare and WN chose not to advertise it either so its not a HUGE loss. Yes, the airline never wants to leave a market, but it happens...that's what competition is about and is very prevalent in this business, just look at AirTran.

TZ is holding their own and there will be market additions in the future that expand on the WN codeshare.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Jc2354 (Reply 4):
Those didn't last long. Where are they going?

402 and 403 will be going to FlyLAL (Lithuanian Airlines). 402 leaves in May and 403 in Sept. 401 is still being worked out with the lessor.

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 5):
Well, CO also serves LGA-IAH, and they protect their hubs fiercely, so I'm sure that CO's presence on the route contributed to some extent to TZ's decision.



Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 6):
did people in either Houston or New York know they were an option? If they didn't I would be willing to wager a bet on thats why they pulled out.



Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 9):
If us locals didn't know who do you blame that on.......I'd say ATA and no advertising. I mean if you are gonna play in a market that is dominated by a HUB carrier in their HUB city let alone at both ends, you best bring your A game to the coral, and then you think because it is HOU you are going to fly to, then Southwest appears and you still don't advertise!



Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 10):
So, when will TZ officially cease HOU ops?

You all are reading too much into this. Yes, competition on the route was fierce and it had great loads intially, but the main reason for dropping it was returning the aircraft since a 3 aircraft sub-fleet is not cost efficient. Returning the aircraft is only capable if one aircraft's worth of flying is cancelled. The weakest route happened to by LGA-HOU and thus its ending May 7. Since the September 2006 entrance of B6, this route has been difficult.

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 12):
I wasn't trying to blame it on the locals. I agree that its totally ATA's fault that they didn't advertise. It seems like common sense, so why do soooo many companies seem to act like they have none?

Ahh yes, and you are the marketing expert. Why would TZ want to spend precious marketing dollars on a two flight route between two points where neither of them are a hub? The cost far outweighs the benefit here. Airlines do not have endless marketing budgets, one must pick their battles where it can gain the most benefit. This route was intended on taking advantage of the WN codeshare and WN chose not to advertise it either so its not a HUGE loss. Yes, the airline never wants to leave a market, but it happens...that's what competition is about and is very prevalent in this business, just look at AirTran.

TZ is holding their own and there will be market additions in the future that expand on the WN codeshare.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:52 am

Quoting Jc2354 (Reply 4):
Those didn't last long. Where are they going?

402 and 403 will be going to FlyLAL (Lithuanian Airlines). 402 leaves in May and 403 in Sept. 401 is still being worked out with the lessor.

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 5):
Well, CO also serves LGA-IAH, and they protect their hubs fiercely, so I'm sure that CO's presence on the route contributed to some extent to TZ's decision.



Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 6):
did people in either Houston or New York know they were an option? If they didn't I would be willing to wager a bet on thats why they pulled out.



Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 9):
If us locals didn't know who do you blame that on.......I'd say ATA and no advertising. I mean if you are gonna play in a market that is dominated by a HUB carrier in their HUB city let alone at both ends, you best bring your A game to the coral, and then you think because it is HOU you are going to fly to, then Southwest appears and you still don't advertise!



Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 10):
So, when will TZ officially cease HOU ops?

You all are reading too much into this. Yes, competition on the route was fierce and it had great loads intially, but the main reason for dropping it was returning the aircraft since a 3 aircraft sub-fleet is not cost efficient. Returning the aircraft is only capable if one aircraft's worth of flying is cancelled. The weakest route happened to by LGA-HOU and thus its ending May 7. Since the September 2006 entrance of B6, this route has been difficult.

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 12):
I wasn't trying to blame it on the locals. I agree that its totally ATA's fault that they didn't advertise. It seems like common sense, so why do soooo many companies seem to act like they have none?

Ahh yes, and you are the marketing expert. Why would TZ want to spend precious marketing dollars on a two flight route between two points where neither of them are a hub? The cost far outweighs the benefit here. Airlines do not have endless marketing budgets, one must pick their battles where it can gain the most benefit. This route was intended on taking advantage of the WN codeshare and WN chose not to advertise it either so its not a HUGE loss. Yes, the airline never wants to leave a market, but it happens...that's what competition is about and is very prevalent in this business, just look at AirTran.

TZ is holding their own and there will be market additions in the future that expand on the WN codeshare.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 7):
Let's also not forget that AA operates HOU-LGA iirc.

AA flew this as an extension from AUS through HOU to LGA was somewhat popular for the few non CO and WN FFlyers going between AUS and HOU but the service was pulled. I remember threads on this board discussing how popular the ATA route to HOU was with the WN codeshares and such either those threads were wrong or B6 killed it?

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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XJetflyer
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:10 am

I'm just an average passenger with no airline involvement. I never heard of ATA flying from Hobby to anywhere. I have always been a CO supporter and can not stand Southwest at all, right down to the colors of their a/c. Since I don't fly out of Hobby much, I never have noticed any other fleet there. When Jet Blue came to Houston, you could not go a few blocks with out seeing a bill board with their advertisement. You could not look in the paper without seeing their advertisement. I have not had any reason yet to fly to NY. But my wife and I signed up for the JB Pass and when we have a flight up to NY we will give JB a chance.

Of course my wife started to change her mind after all the screw ups with passengers left on board for all those hours. I have to admit, CO has been great over the years. Their a/c have felt safe and comfortable 98% of the time. It's hard to fly anyone else besides them and XJT.
 
ghillier
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:44 am

I flew HOU-LGA when AA had 2 daily flights that routed AUS-HOU-LGA and back and they were always packed. Not sure why AA abandoned the route to begin with.
 
n844aa
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:47 am

When I was flying the AA route a lot about six months before it was discontinued, it would pretty reliably alternate between 105% full and 40% full. A lot of those empty planes were on weekends, however.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
Mexicana757
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:49 am

Sad to see this route for ATA go. Wonder what they will use those LGA slots that open.
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:09 am

Why does ATA need to advertise the HOU-LGA to make it successful? I thought the whole purpose of the WN code share was to generate business for both airlines. The flights are listed on Orbitz and other online ticketing websites including both Southwest’s and ATA’s own websites.

The problem isn't lack of knowledge about the flights; it's the high prices and awful times Southwest requires passengers to fly in order to use the code shares. In order to fly from CRP to LGA in the morning using the WN-ATA code share, it is necessary to fly on WN flight 6 from CRP to HOU that leaves at 6:25 am. The flight time according to Southwest’s website is 45 minutes. That means the layover between WN 6 and ATA 4232 is 3 hours and 20 minutes which is almost as long as the ATA flight between HOU and LGA making the total travel time 7:33 an arrival time of 2:58 pm. WN Flight 16 departs CRP at 8:55 am and lands at HOU in plenty of time to make a connection with ATA 4232. If you check the schedules, Southwest allows much tighter connections to its own flights than it does to ATA flights.

If I were to fly on Continental, I could depart just five minutes later at 6:30 am and make a connection at IAH to LGA with a much more reasonable connect time of 1 hour 25 minutes and be in New York before 2:00 pm. If I wanted to leave CRP at 5:30 am, I could arrive at LGA at 12:36 pm or JFK at 12:41 pm in time for lunch. Also the fares on Continental are considerably cheaper than the Southwest – ATA code share to LGA. If code share times from other cities to LGA are comparable, it’s little wonder people are not flying ATA to New York. The lowest price I could find on Southwest’s website was $554.60 round trip. I was able to find round trip flights on Continental’s website for $278.60. Why spend more money for more inconvenience on what are supposed to be low cost carriers?

[Edited 2007-04-19 02:13:16]
 
tinpusher007
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:41 am

Hmmmm...I wonder if DL could be interested in this route from LGA? But then, they couldn't make DFW work and that was evev a former hub for them.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
DL777LAX
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 25):
Ahh yes, and you are the marketing expert. Why would TZ want to spend precious marketing dollars on a two flight route between two points where neither of them are a hub?

Take my opinion for what its worth, I'm not connected to the aviation industry. But if you can't sell a product, then you have two options, try to make the product successful, or pull out. I'm not saying that TZ should have had an infinite amount of tv. commercials, print ads and other ads.

Think of it this way, your sitting in traffic, on the freeway. Your nervous because you have a business trip to the NYC in a week. You have yet to book your trip. You look up to the right for a second (your in gridlock after all), and see a billboard advertising ATA-HOUSTON-NYC FOR $400 LAST MINUTE.

last minute business travel, and the scenario above, while not the most common trip, still is a market. Just a few billboards in some prime locations makes all the difference in advertising. I know my scenario above isn't the most realistic, but variations of it happen.

Anyway, I'm not trying to step on anyones toes. I'm just clearing up what TZTriStar thought I said.

I know money doesn't grow on trees. Thats why you have to invest your ad dollars smartly. If you can reach out to 10000 motorist a day for about $1000 a month, I'd say thats money well spent.

DL777LAX
Blindly following anything is bad, unless of course your blind and your following a guide dog.
 
LGA777
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:18 am

With LGA slots being such a hot comodity will TZ utilze the two LGA-HOU slots for two additional LGA-MDW freqs ? I realize with the 733's going away that might not be possible but was curious. Lot's of speculation that TZ may got all charter not that far down the road, and if so with the type of charter flying they do the 733 would not be effective anyway

Regards

LGA777
 
PHX Flyer
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:40 am

Hindsight is of course always 20/20, but I think in the end ATA's service was doomed to fail. ATA's problem is that they do not have a strong cutomer base at either end of the route. Continental, of course, is a goliath in both markets, and JetBlue has a loyal following at least in NYC.

What ATA's withdrawal from the LGA-HOU route tells me is that their lose affiliation with Southwest does not help them that much, at least not in Houston. My hunch is that ATA has this problem more or less everywhere they fly: weak customer base and zero pricing power - a bottom feeder so to speak. I would expect to see them add routes here and there and then again drop them quickly if the performance turns too ugly. It's kind of sad to see this little airline struggling like this. I hope they are able to carve out there niche. Given that they are one of three outfits under the umbrella of a holding company, one would think they have a lot of potential - hopefully Global Aero Logistics' management team musters the creativity to unleash it.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 35):
Lot's of speculation that SA)">TZ may got all charter not that far down the road, and if so with the type of charter flying they do the 733 would not be effective anyway

We are NOT getting out of scheduled service and going all charter. This speculation is not based in any fact whatsoever. The Southwest code share is profitable and will be expanded internationally (Mexico, Canada, Carribean, etc.) when Southwest completes its IT upgrade to allow international ticketing.


Quoting PHX Flyer (Reply 36):
Hindsight is of course always 20/20, but I think in the end ATA's service was doomed to fail. ATA's problem is that they do not have a strong cutomer base at either end of the route. Continental, of course, is a goliath in both markets, and JetBlue has a loyal following at least in NYC.

What ATA's withdrawal from the LGA-HOU route tells me is that their lose affiliation with Southwest does not help them that much, at least not in Houston. My hunch is that ATA has this problem more or less everywhere they fly: weak customer base and zero pricing power - a bottom feeder so to speak. I would expect to see them add routes here and there and then again drop them quickly if the performance turns too ugly. It's kind of sad to see this little airline struggling like this. I hope they are able to carve out there niche. Given that they are one of three outfits under the umbrella of a holding company, one would think they have a lot of potential - hopefully Global Aero Logistics' management team musters the creativity to unleash it.

Making such a broad statement based on one route is ridiculous, we are NOT struggling. The Southwest code share is absolutely profitable for us. Do you actually think that after being in bankruptcy for over a year that ATA would keep this going if it was a big money pit? Your analysis on the success of the code share is just plain wrong.

We have a limited customer base in Chicago and the west coast for the Hawaii service, but I agree we could be considered a bottom feeder, hence the Southwest code share to make up the difference. All of our flights are marketed and sold on southwest.com, not just connecting service.

The main reason the LGA-HOU route was dropped was NOT because it was losing money, but that we are getting rid of 3 aircraft from the scheduled fleet because it was not cost effective to have a small sub fleet. Yes, the route was the weakest in the system, but this reason was ultimately a secondary factor, not the main reason. No, the route did not fail as in a consistent money-loser. Every scheduled airline system has a route or two that are considered weak from a profitability standpoint.

We do have a lot of scheduled potential and will exploit it conservatively with the 7 year Southwest code share that allows ATA to fly certain service exclusively for Southwest. The Global Aero Logistics team already is doing this since its the SAME people, as in ATA's existing management. Global Aero Logistics is simply the renamed New ATA Holdings. We are buying World Holdings, not the other way around.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
N908AW
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 37):
We are NOT getting out of scheduled service and going all charter. This speculation is not based in any fact whatsoever. The Southwest code share is profitable and will be expanded internationally (Mexico, Canada, Carribean, etc.) when Southwest completes its IT upgrade to allow international ticketing.

THANK YOU! I am sick of this nagging delusion all across A.nut that somehow ATA is still bankrupt. What does ATA have to do to prove its financial stability? It's been opening up new routes throughout the system! It just bought out another airline! What more do we need?
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
drerx7
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:05 pm

The fact that you had to reenter screening at Hobby to connect from WN to TZ wasn't a positive either. This would have been remedied once the central concourse expansion was completed .
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
Cactus742
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:11 pm

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 32):
The problem isn't lack of knowledge about the flights; it's the high prices and awful times Southwest requires passengers to fly in order to use the code shares.

The awful WN-TZ connection times are not limited to Texas. I'm flying PHX-MDW-DCA in about a month and it requires me to leave PHX at noon, get into MDW at 5:25 and not depart for DCA until 7:55. Don't tell me that WN can't do more to adjust connection times so that a flight between two of its biggest cities can't connect in less than 2.5 hours.

The codeshare is definitely beneficial but it took some extra thinking before deciding on a route that had such a long stopover when I could fly nonstop to BWI.
Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting Cactus742 (Reply 40):
The awful WN-TZ connection times are not limited to Texas. I'm flying PHX-MDW-DCA in about a month and it requires me to leave PHX at noon, get into MDW at 5:25 and not depart for DCA until 7:55. Don't tell me that WN can't do more to adjust connection times so that a flight between two of its biggest cities can't connect in less than 2.5 hours.

The codeshare is definitely beneficial but it took some extra thinking before deciding on a route that had such a long stopover when I could fly nonstop to BWI.

One of the main reasons for this is slot controls. The TZ flights to DCA and LGA are restricted to certain times of the day so WN would have adjust there entire schedule to better some of those connecting times. Seems like a small price to pay for a more competitive fare over the competition.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 41):
One of the main reasons for this is slot controls. The TZ flights to DCA and LGA are restricted to certain times of the day so WN would have adjust there entire schedule to better some of those connecting times. Seems like a small price to pay for a more competitive fare over the competition.

It doesn't take over three hours to transfer to another flight. Southwest is only making available seats on flights with low load factors. They have another flight that is scheduled to land almost an hour before the ATA flight to LGA, Southwest sells tickets for transfers to other Southwest flights that take off before that ATA flight.
 
wjcandee
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RE: ATA To Discontinue LGA-HOU

Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 42):
Southwest is only making available seats on flights with low load factors.

Inaccurate. The whole inventory is there, limited only by minimum connection times.

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 42):
They have another flight that is scheduled to land almost an hour before the ATA flight to LGA

Well, let's talk about your actual case first. The 2:10pm flight that is the next PHX-MDW flight after the one that you're on arrives a mere 35 minutes before the MDW-DCA flight that you're on. That's too short a conx time, even at MDW.

To LGA, which you're not flying but which you mention, there is a flight that leaves at 10:40am from PHX that arrives MDW exactly one hour before the LGA flight and...guess what...you can book that conx. The 2:10 pm flight arrives AFTER the 7:05pm LGA-MDW flight departs, so that's a nonstarter. So...I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 42):
Southwest sells tickets for transfers to other Southwest flights that take off before that ATA flight

Maybe they do, but I'm not sure what the point is. Plainly, WN has some connections to itself and ATA that are one hour. Plainly, WN doesn't allow a 35-minute conx to TZ. Maybe there's something in between, but they're hardly trying to screw TZ on the codeshare. WN passengers routinely contend with multiple stops and seemingly-crazy conx times, but they continue to fly the carrier. It's not limited to the conx with TZ.

Do I think that waiting 3 hours to do a conx is silly? Probably, but tell me what the alternative was. What was the fare differential? What was the conx time differential between that and other carriers?