Popski87
Topic Author
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Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:17 pm

According to market watch.com, the 30 UFO orders are not from a US carrier and they are not an add-on order. This could get very interesting!

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...738-4576-44DC-9AD7-9FAD78F735BD%7D
 
NYC777
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:22 pm

I think AA will order it by Paris and they'll be taking 100 or so.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:28 pm

"The newspaper said the unusually large and hush-hush order "


Amen to that! This order is being kept extremely close to the vest, from what I've been able to gather.


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
amirs
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:34 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 2):
The newspaper said the unusually large and hush-hush order "


Amen to that! This order is being kept extremely close to the vest, from what I've been able to gather

Why are these things kept "hush hush"?
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:36 pm

Im hoping its the Ryanair plan.... The articles about the Ryanair articles all stated a 2009/2010 start, yet said they wanted to wait for the prices to come down and orders to slow down meaning they wouldnt order right yet, but then that would also mean that the 2009/2010 timeframe wouldnt hold. Perhaps trying to blind-side the competition....
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
NYC777
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:37 pm

I think it's LH. 30 sounds like the right number for them.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
PEET7G
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 5):
I think it's LH. 30 sounds like the right number for them.

I don't think, but I hope you are right  Smile
Peet7G
 
Popski87
Topic Author
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 2):
Amen to that! This order is being kept extremely close to the vest, from what I've been able to gather.

That' why I don't think its AA. Everyone is expecting AA to order it so why would they bother keeping it "hush-hush" and waiting till the Paris air show to disclose it?
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 5):
I think it's LH. 30 sounds like the right number for them.

Yea that was LH ! Just yestarday they ordered 40 regional airplanes , it´s very very possible that´s LH ...
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daus
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting Amirs (Reply 3):
Why are these things kept "hush hush"?

Well, it it's a European carrier, they are probably trying to keep this quiet as to not offend or arouse the Airbus political machine.
 
Poitin
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting Popski87 (Thread starter):
Im hoping its the Ryanair plan.... The articles about the Ryanair articles all stated a 2009/2010 start, yet said they wanted to wait for the prices to come down and orders to slow down meaning they wouldnt order right yet, but then that would also mean that the 2009/2010 timeframe wouldnt hold.

While Ryanair is not involved with this grand new airline, their CEO, Micheal O'Leary (MOL) is. It will be a new airline "completely" independent of Ryanair, or so MOL is claiming. He also places himself not at the CEO of the new airline but as chairman of the board. He is also talking about being the Chairman of the Ryanair board, so the linkage is really there.

All that said, if MOL calls up Boeing and asks, "How much for 30 787s with an option for 20 more?", he will certainly receive a very good price.

Your point about delivery times is clearly right on target. He would pretty much have to order now to get them in the next three or four years. Likewise, he is not likely to wait for the 350 which is due in 2012 to 2015 depending on who you believe.

Most likely the airline will be announced around the time of the Paris Airshow. Gonna be interesting.  yes 
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Danny
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:54 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 5):
I think it's LH. 30 sounds like the right number for them.

No way.

My guess goes with Ryanair.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting Daus (Reply 9):
Well, it it's a European carrier, they are probably trying to keep this quiet as to not offend or arouse the Airbus political machine.

But if at some point it has to be announced anyway, why "tomorrow" versus today?
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
airblue
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:15 am

And what about TUIFly??

I know 30 is a huge number, but they need it for many European markets, plus I think they are planning to enter massive in the long haul leisure scheduled market.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:18 am

The newspaper, citing a source familiar with the order, said the identity of the customer is being closely held within Boeing until the airline is ready to disclose the order, which could happen at the Paris Air Show in June.

The newspaper said the unusually large and hush-hush order raises speculation that it could be from one of the key airlines considering the 787 or the Airbus A350, which include heavyweights British Airways, Lufthansa, and Emirates.



I guess it shouldn't be that hard to figure out...Just take note of who keeps hush-hush about anything A350 until the Paris Air Show. Big grin
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
daus
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:18 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 12):
But if at some point it has to be announced anyway, why "tomorrow" versus today?

There could be all kinds of reasons. If they are worried about offending the Airbus crowd they may be working on a side deal for Airbus aircraft to match with this order. This appeared to happen a while back with LH when they made the 747-8i order, there were A340's announced at the same time.

If it's the Ryanair thing, that's a huge strategic move that they would not want to telegraph to the market till the last possible second.

And lastly, to announce at Air Shows is a tradition. Lots of press and publicity.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 14):
I guess it shouldn't be that hard to figure out...Just take note of who keeps hush-hush about anything A350 until the Paris Air Show.

Well it's not going to be EK - Clark couldn't keep quiet for 12 minutes a definitely not 12 weeks! Big grin
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 1931
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:35 am

I dont think it would be the Ryanair long haul project. Its just too soon. The "airline" is not even a company at this stage. The whole thing began as an 'off the cuff' remark by MOL to a German journalist. It blew up from there.
I'll put it like this, MOL's long haul PLAN has no;

CEO (MOL would be the chairman, not CEO)
No management team
No certificate of incorporation
No AOC
and most crucially of all:
No money/Investors.

I'm not saying this will not happen. It could well do. But it wont happen this decade. Or until the midle of the next one, at the earliest.

The order seems a bit small to be an Emirates order, were they not talking of a 100 frame order? I suppose they could add extra frames later.

There is an outside chance that this could be an order from a lessor as well.

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:44 am

 cloudnine   cloudnine 
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Leskova
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:47 am

Quoting Daus (Reply 9):
Well, it it's a European carrier, they are probably trying to keep this quiet as to not offend or arouse the Airbus political machine.

Why does nonsense like that have to keep coming up?  Yeah sure

Quoting Daus (Reply 15):
If they are worried about offending the Airbus crowd they may be working on a side deal for Airbus aircraft to match with this order. This appeared to happen a while back with LH when they made the 747-8i order, there were A340's announced at the same time.

Well, obviously the "side deal" to avoid "offending the Airbus crowd" couldn't possibly have had anything to do with the fact that they not only need the planes, but are in fact happy with the A340, right?  Yeah sure ... after all, it's an Airbus, and even worse, an A340... no-one could be happy with that plane, right?  Yeah sure

a.net never fails to disappoint..........  Yeah sure
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Lumberton
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 4):
Im hoping its the Ryanair plan....



Quoting Danny (Reply 11):
My guess goes with Ryanair.

I opined this last week, but couldn' t get a rise out of anyone!  Wink

How about Air France as a potential candidate?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:50 am

But the 787 does not really fit into the stategy of LH to focus on three,four Inercontinental Hubs (FRA,MUC,ZRH,VIE..)
There might be the occasional Interconti flight from HAM or DUS,but their strategy is rather on large volume aircraft.
The 787 would be too small for those hubs ..
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
daus
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 19):
Why does nonsense like that have to keep coming up?

If you don't believe politcal pressure is applied to the purchasing companies (from both the American and Euro side) you are simply nieve.
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 20):

How about Air France as a potential candidate?

I was thnking about this one myself. I think it is a little unlikely that AF/KL would order the 787 at this stage. KL have just phased out the last of the 763's and replaced them with A330s. Similarly AF was late to the A330 game. Top-up orders for the A330 are more likely for AF/KL than orders for the 787/A350. Perhaps once both the 787 and 350 enter service then AF/KL will make a decision on that size of widebody.

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
WINGS
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:56 am

I believe that Iberia might be a likely candidate to fill those 30 B787 (UFO's)

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00002604.jpg

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
LHUSA
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:58 am

Please let it be LH!!!!!
 
Lumberton
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 24):
I believe that Iberia might be a likely candidate to fill those 30 B787 (UFO's)

Does IB need that many planes?

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 23):
KL have just phased out the last of the 763's and replaced them with A330s. Similarly AF was late to the A330 game.

Good points.

What if it's not a euro carrier? How about South America? GOL/RG?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Thorben
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
I think AA will order it by Paris and they'll be taking 100 or so.

If not even 1000.

Quoting Daus (Reply 9):
Well, it it's a European carrier, they are probably trying to keep this quiet as to not offend or arouse the Airbus political machine.

If it is a public company, they have to announce a deal like that. Did LH keep their 747-8 order a secret?

Besides, why is Boeing always not telling who they sell their planes to? To keep speculation alight on a.net?
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 25):
Please let it be LH!!!!!

Yeaaaah !! Please !!!!!

Quoting Thorben (Reply 27):
Did LH keep their 747-8 order a secret?

NO
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highflyer9790
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 5):
think it's LH. 30 sounds like the right number for them.

for what market niche? they have plenty of A321s/A330s/A340s, so the 787 would simply do nothing, unless they want to replace a bunch of perfectly cost effective aircraft. besides the 747-8 order, since when in the recent past has LH been very pro boeing (i mean that with a grain of salt) i.e. A32X/A330/A340/A340/A380...all lost orders for boeing that went to airbus. i dont think it is LH...otherwise we would have heard more about their debate on the A350...
121
 
airbazar
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:05 am

Which of the original A350 customers have not yet agreed to convert those orders to the A350XWB? I know TP hasn't and in fact as of last month they were still evaluating both the A350XWB and the 787. But I don't think they'd order 30 aircraft. What other carriers have not signed on for the XWB?
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:05 am

67 unidentified this year so far ... what´s happening is this normal ??

Konstantin
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NYC777
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:06 am

Or it could be a Middle Eastern carrier (save for EK), like Ethiad or Oman Air.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 30):
Which of the original A350 customers have not yet agreed to convert those orders to the A350XWB? I know TP hasn't and in fact as of last month they were still evaluating both the A350XWB and the 787. But I don't think they'd order 30 aircraft. What other carriers have not signed on for the XWB?

US , QR , Yemenia (?) , JJ ...
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columba
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 8):
Yea that was LH ! Just yestarday they ordered 40 regional airplanes , it´s very very possible that´s LH ...

Today is a LH shareholders meeting, isn' t it ?

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 14):
The newspaper said the unusually large and hush-hush order raises speculation that it could be from one of the key airlines considering the 787 or the Airbus A350, which include heavyweights British Airways, Lufthansa, and Emirates.

Out of these three LH is the most likely candidate. LH said they would place an order in spring 2007. BA would wait till the end of the year, EK would not order only 30 but more and also would place an order later this year.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
airfrnt
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 4):
Im hoping its the Ryanair plan.... The articles about the Ryanair articles all stated a 2009/2010 start, yet said they wanted to wait for the prices to come down and orders to slow down meaning they wouldnt order right yet, but then that would also mean that the 2009/2010 timeframe wouldnt hold. Perhaps trying to blind-side the competition....

RyanAir can handle the traffic with the 737-700ER. A 788 would be a pretty significant seat count boost for them. CASM would be higher, but they would not have to fill as many seats to make the route work, a class problem the Low Cost Carriers have run into when they have tried to fly big metal of the Atlantic.

With the rumors swirling around IB right now, I don't think it's them. I think it's either LH or BA.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 34):
Today is a LH shareholders meeting, isn' t it ?

That´s right in Berlin
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Basefly
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting Daus (Reply 9):



Come on...... Are you for real......?
 sarcastic 

My money is on Ryanair, If it were LH, the only reason they should keep it quiet is if it was for the Paris air show.

Seriously its only on A-net that you will find people that honestly think a company like LH would be scared to upset people by ordering An Boeing aircraft....  sigh 
757/777-A340/A380, Love them.
 
Leskova
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting Daus (Reply 22):
If you don't believe politcal pressure is applied to the purchasing companies (from both the American and Euro side) you are simply nieve.

If you think that carriers like LH or BA give politicians trying to get them to order Airbusses more than a smile and a friendly handshake, then you're misjudging those companies...

By the way... the word is "naive"  Wink ... and perhaps I am, in some regards - but this isn't one of them.

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 29):
for what market niche? they have plenty of A321s/A330s/A340s, so the 787 would simply do nothing, unless they want to replace a bunch of perfectly cost effective aircraft.

That pretty much sums it up... I continue to doubt that the A300 will see any replacement besides A321s: even routes like FRA-LHR see increased use of A320-series aircraft these days, and I've even been on a couple of B737-300s on that route within the last months. Every single A300 that I've been on, including early morning and late afternoon/early evening flights were filled to 70% at most: a downgrade to an A321 would result in a load around 100% and higher yield.... not really an incentive to buy a bigger plane.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
drerx7
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 27):
Besides, why is Boeing always not telling who they sell their planes to? To keep speculation alight on a.net?

Its the airlines discretion to announce...not the manufacturer.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
NYC777
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:20 am

I don't think any airlines would hold off from announcing an order for Boeing for fear of what Airbus would think or say...these are adults not kids.

The reason to hold off is to announce at the Paris Air Show IMO. Rumor has it that Boeing is offering incentives to airlines who place order to hold off making announcements of those orders until Paris. It's up to the airlines to take the package or not.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Norcal773
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:21 am

We should all wait and stop wetting our pants. I am sure it'll be announced soon.  duck 
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
jimyvr
Posts: 1597
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:21 am

AF, LH or IB.

Particularly AF's launch of -10X?
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
n1786b
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 12):
Quoting Daus (Reply 9):
Well, it it's a European carrier, they are probably trying to keep this quiet as to not offend or arouse the Airbus political machine.

But if at some point it has to be announced anyway, why "tomorrow" versus today?

Air show and maybe, if you think it is AF, the upcoming French elections?

- n1786b
 
jfk777
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:37 am

For all we know it is Aerolinias Argentinas. My bet its a major European airline since none have ordered the new 787 yet. Lufthansa could but British Air or Virgin could surprise us too. Iberia seems satisfied with their A340-600, since many are fairly new I don't see them dumping perfectly good airplanes with little used market demand for 787's right now.
 
columba
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 42):
AF, LH or IB.

Particularly AF's launch of -10X?

AF said that they don' t want to decide on the 787 A350 that early. If it is one out of these three you mentioned it is LH.
LH said they will decide in spring 2007 and today there is a shareholder meeting. Coincidence ? Maybe, maybe not.
If this order is really for a European major it is LH. If not it is likely for an Asian airline.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
FlyUSCG
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:52 am

I would love to see the day when Boeing stops posting orders. I'm willing to bet 90% of you on here would just keel over and die. Just remember folks, the orders Boeing posts mean SHIT. They only do that for the general public and any customer could careless what order numbers are on Boeing.com. I'm not trash talking Boeing here as I am a huge fan, just more making fun of the members that live and die by order numbers.
Go Trojans! Fight On!
 
airfrnt
Posts: 1992
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 39):

Its the airlines discretion to announce...not the manufacturer.

Airbus has a different policy then Airbus does.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 35):
RyanAir can handle the traffic with the 737-700ER. A 788 would be a pretty significant seat count boost for them. CASM would be higher, but they would not have to fill as many seats to make the route work, a class problem the Low Cost Carriers have run into when they have tried to fly big metal of the Atlantic.

Well its not Ryanair, but the ryanair people came right out and said they are lookijng to buy 787s or A350s for a seperate airline that would take the ryanair model over the "pond" utilizing airports like PVD BWI and ISP. They mentioned the 2009-2010 timeframe meaning if they wanted to hold true to that, then an order should be made soon, if it hasnt been doneso already
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
daus
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RE: Apparently 30 UFO 787s NOT A US Carrier

Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 27):
If it is a public company, they have to announce a deal like that. Did LH keep their 747-8 order a secret?



Quoting Leskova (Reply 38):
If you think that carriers like LH or BA give politicians trying to get them to order Airbusses more than a smile and a friendly handshake, then you're misjudging those companies...

And you may have mis-judged my comments. I wasn't implying that the politics were the determining factor in the order, the question was asked as to why the Boeing order was being kept quiet. I mentioned the LH order because I think it's pretty likely someone in the PR department suggested it would be a good thing politically to announce the Airbus and Boeing orders at the same time in that instance. Obviously both negotiations wouldn't just happen to complete on the same day. Announcements on both deals were held until they could be done together.

I don't think anyone can deny if you are an LH exec sitting there with the prospect of announcing what equates to a launch order for the 747-8i that the idea of having the Airbus order in their pockets to pair with it wasn't a political relief.

And yes, I am a bad speller.  Smile