krisyyz
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:04 pm

Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:54 am

Is AC still planning on transferring its B762 to RG? I remember Milton mentioning something to that effect when RG fell into financial problems last year.

Also, now that AA is fitting its B767 with winglets, is there a possibility that AC may do the same? The original XM plan called for winglets on the B763s, but that was dropped. AC will most likely keep its B763s operational well past 2010. Having winglet equipped B763s would serve as an economical benefit. The new B767 glass flight deck layout would also increase the commonality between AC’s B767 and B777 fleets.

Thanks,
KrisYYZ
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:18 am

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-canada-to-launch-767-winglet.html

This article is a few years old, but it included the 762s in getting winglets. It also says they were supposed to start the modification last year. I do not know when:

Quoting KrisYYZ (Thread starter):
he original XM plan called for winglets on the B763s, but that was dropped.

took place?

The 767 winglets must be having some technical/development problems.

I have seen the AA posts, but it is similar to this article about AC, though the AA post is coming from an insider.

Even Aviation Partners website has nothing about 767 winglets.

http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.com/

M
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

AC//77W Being Fast-tracked Into Revenue Service

Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Thread starter):
Is AC still planning on transferring its B762 to RG? I remember Milton mentioning something to that effect when RG fell into financial problems last year.

No. I believe fin 604 is the next to be removed from service, but don't think RG in its current form/state has any interest. Furthermore, this aircraft is not equipped for overwater service, as it's slides only equipped, and would probably be of little use to RG.

Quoting KrisYYZ (Thread starter):
Also, now that AA is fitting its B767 with winglets, is there a possibility that AC may do the same?

Not at the present time.
Above and Beyond
 
raffik
Posts: 1530
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:50 am

RE: Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:41 am

I flew Toronto-Heathrow on C-GHLA 767-300 and it was in sharp contract to the A330 I flew out on and the Embraer 175.
Upon boarding, it was hard to miss the drab interior- faded mushroom colour seat covers, discoloured overhead baggage compartments, uncomfortable seats with absolutely no padding in whatsoever. Trim falling off the cabin cieling.. there were a number of lockers that were marked non operational. My locker kept on opening during the flight, take off and landing included. It was an extremely uncomfortable flight, and that aircraft was in dire need of refurbishment!

I still love AC!
- Alec
 
krisyyz
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:04 pm

RE: Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:11 am

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 1):
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-canada-to-launch-767-winglet.html

This article is a few years old, but it included the 762s in getting winglets. It also says they were supposed to start the modification last year. I do not know when:

Great article, thanks for the link!

FLYACYYZ, thanks for the info!

KrisYYZ
 
beechnut
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

RE: Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 2):
No. I believe fin 604 is the next to be removed from service,

No! Not 604! C-GAUN! For those not in the know, this is the famous Gimli Glider that made a deadstick landing in Manitoba back in 1983, when it was brand new, after running out of fuel due to a big f**k up with metric conversions and dead fuel gauges. It would also appear to be AC's oldest flying 767 at the moment, built in 1983, which means she's 24...too bad she won't make it to 25. In fact this would be AC's oldest flying aircraft at the moment, excluding the Lockheed L10 historic aircraft.

I've flown on this bird many times, and also had the pleasure of meeting Captain Bob Pearson, who also once headed up the soaring club in my home town of Hawkesbury, Ontario.

Beech.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18846
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 5):
No! Not 604! C-GAUN! For those not in the know, this is the famous Gimli Glider that made a deadstick landing in Manitoba back in 1983, when it was brand new, after running out of fuel due to a big f**k up with metric conversions and dead fuel gauges. It would also appear to be AC's oldest flying 767 at the moment, built in 1983, which means she's 24...too bad she won't make it to 25. In fact this would be AC's oldest flying aircraft at the moment, excluding the Lockheed L10 historic aircraft.

I believe C-GAUN, tail #604 is the oldest aircraft that was delivered new to AC, but it's not the oldest aircraft in the AC fleet. Unless it's been retired very recently, I believe that honour goes to C-FVNM, tail #621. It was delivered to the original owner, China Airlines (Taiwan) on December 20, 1982, a little over 3 months before C-GAUN was delivered to AC on March 30, 1983. C-FVNM is 767 line number 18 while C-GAUN is line number 47.


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beechnut
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

RE: Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:52 am

Hmm, C-FVNM is line MSN 22681, whereas C-GAUN is MSN 22520, while it would seem that a lower MSN would imply an older build date, the Transport Canada registry site does indeed list 621 as 1982 and 604 as 1983 build dates, a bit odd. 621, which is a -209 and not a -233, is also an ER whereas 604 isn't.

Beech
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:55 am

FIN 621 sat in the desert for a little bit..
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18846
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 7):
Hmm, C-FVNM is line MSN 22681, whereas C-GAUN is MSN 22520, while it would seem that a lower MSN would imply an older build date, the Transport Canada registry site does indeed list 621 as 1982 and 604 as 1983 build dates, a bit odd.

The MSN seems to have little relationship to the line number. For example, line no. 46 for UA, the one just prior to C-GAUN, is MSN 21877, and line no. 17, the one just prior to CFVNM is MSN 22215. And the very first 767 built that conducted the test program and stayed with Boeing for other defence program testing etc. was MSN 22233, while line no. 2 (UA's first) was MSN 21862.

I'm making a wild guess that the MSN numbers may be assigned in batches to a carrier when the aircraft are ordered and don't have any relationship to their sequence on the production line.,but someone more familiar with these numbers will probably have a better answer.

P.S. There's an interesting historical footnote involving C-FVNM. On August 21, 1983, when it was still B-1836 with China Airlines, the leader of the opposition in the Philippines, Benigno Aquino, was assassinated as he deplaned from that aircraft on arrival at MNL from TPE. He was returning after several years in exile in the US. His widow, Corazon Aquino, was later elected President of the Philippines, replacing dictator Ferdinand Marcos. Related TIME story:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,926285,00.html

[Edited 2007-04-19 00:40:37]

[Edited 2007-04-19 00:41:35]
 
OceansWorld
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:55 am

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 7):
Hmm, C-FVNM is line MSN 22681, whereas C-GAUN is MSN 22520, while it would seem that a lower MSN would imply an older build date, the Transport Canada registry site does indeed list 621 as 1982 and 604 as 1983 build dates, a bit odd. 621, which is a -209 and not a -233, is also an ER whereas 604 isn't.

C-FVNM is the 18th B767 built and delivered December 12th, 1982 to CI, whereas C-GAUN is line n° 47 and was received by AC March 30th, 1983.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
I'm making a wild guess that the MSN numbers may be assigned in batches to a carrier when the aircraft are ordered and don't have any relationship to their sequence on the production line.,but someone more familiar with these numbers will probably have a better answe

At Boeing, and previously MDC too, the MSN numbers are common to all types of aircraft built by the manufacturer, while the line number is attributed to one aircraft of a certain type, like 18 and 47 as mentioned above for the B767s. And if you look in a production book, you'll find a series of successive MSN attributed to an airline, while the LN don't work like that. For instance, AC first B762s are MSN 22517 to 22528 while their respective LN are 16, 22, 40, 47, 66, 75, 87, 88, 91, 92, 102 and 105 on the 767 production line - all delivered between October 1982 and November 1984.

[Edited 2007-04-19 00:59:25]
 
ZBBYLW
Posts: 1612
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:17 am

RE: Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:46 am

Perhaps the MSN is from when it was ordered. Hypothetical Example:
AC orders 3 767s MSN numbers 1,2,3
UA orders 3 767s MSN numbers 4,5 and 6
AC wants a/c slots 1,3 and 6
UA wants a/c slots 2,4 and 5
This is how I "think" it should work.

AC MSN 1 LN 1
UA MSN 4 LN 2
AC MSN 2 LN 3
UA MSN 5 LN 4
UA MSN 6 LN 5
AC MSN 3 LN 6

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but this is how I think it works.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
BaldBoeingGuy
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:44 am

RE: Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:26 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Thread starter):
The new B767 glass flight deck layout would also increase the commonality between AC’s B767 and B777 fleets.

Who's new 767 glass flight deck layout are you talking about? The one Boeing is looking at for 757/767 EFIS CRT replacement or one of the STC's out there like ABX & IS&S? I heard a rumor at AMC a couple weeks ago in Phoenix Boeing will launch a very competitive-priced (under $300K including BFE) 757/767 Large LCD replacement program by year's end. Same formats as 737NG/767-400/777/747-8 with lots of growth and <24 hour a/c downtime.
 
beechnut
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

RE: Air Canada’s B767 Fleet

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:28 am

Much easier with my Beechcraft, which is MSN M-xxxx, and is the xxxxth Sundowner built...(exact number left out so people don't look up the reg and get my name and address from the TC website. Too many crazies out there, but I will say there's a pic of my plane on this board somewhere).

Beech