VC10er
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Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:42 am

does anybody know if the rebirth of VARIG (after the GOL) purchase will come with a new livery? does anyone know if there is an agency working on it now for the launch?
i would be sorry to see a large chance from the compass/star and VARIG font. i noticed the new wavy belly, wonder if that's the extent of the change. any rumors in the advertsing world in Brazil or from senior management? often these things leak quite quickly in the Brazilian ad world.
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PPVRA
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:22 pm

No idea, but the wavy line belongs to Varig Log, not VRG/GOL.

I believe they might so they distinguished themselves more from Varig Log. I don't think we will see the compass go, however. I would expect something very, very interesting (if they are willing to invest in a decent one, of course).

[Edited 2007-04-19 05:28:30]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
C010T3
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:59 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 1):
No idea, but the wavy line belongs to Varig Log, not VRG/GOL.

Well, it was tested on Varig first, when it still belonged to VarigLog. There were rumors that Varig would get some Gol "elements" integrated into their livery. What that means is still unknown.


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SAOAP
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:40 pm

In short: YES, Varig will get a new livery. Will be revealed shorty.

Cheers!

M.
"When it's dark enough, you can see the stars" - Charles A. Beard
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:13 pm

Varig could prepare something for the near future, but the first concern IMO will be to resume services.

A New livery can appear in their future planes, and i believe they will at least put a simple tag " Uma empresa Gol Linhas Aereas " (A Gol Airlines Company).

But for now, does not make sense paint them to be returned in the near future.

Felipe
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Vasu
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:55 pm

Sounds interesting...

I quite like the current one, so they'd better impress me! Big grin
 
C010T3
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
A New livery can appear in their future planes, and i believe they will at least put a simple tag " Uma empresa Gol Linhas Aereas " (A Gol Airlines Company).

I think they should avoid that. They should rather advertise them as equals. The Gol-Varig Group or something... I don't think it would be nice to see a 80 years old airline be subjected to such image subjugation by a wannabe low-fare airline.
 
VC10er
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:45 am

my company did the big rebranding of varig 8 or 9 years ago and created the livery. naturally, i am curious who is working on it now. does anyone know which agency handles GOL?
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 6):
I think they should avoid that. They should rather advertise them as equals. The Gol-Varig Group or something... I don't think it would be nice to see a 80 years old airline be subjected to such image subjugation by a wannabe low-fare airline.

Except, the 80 year old airline failed and was bought by the wannabe.  Smile

FLY2LIM
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C010T3
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 8):
Except, the 80 year old airline failed and was bought by the wannabe.

I was actually referring to the fact that Gol is a low-cost airline, but doesn't practice the low-fare part of the deal with much enthusiasm. I am not questioning the purchase, just how the marketing of the sinergy is conducted.
I don't see Varig as a failure. Who failed was the Brazilian government. Something isn't right, when all airlines of a generation go belly up in a matter of five years.
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
I was actually referring to the fact that Gol is a low-cost airline, but doesn't practice the low-fare part of the deal with much enthusiasm. I am not questioning the purchase, just how the marketing of the sinergy is conducted.
I don't see Varig as a failure. Who failed was the Brazilian government. Something isn't right, when all airlines of a generation go belly up in a matter of five years.

Ok, I understand. Moito Obrigado.

FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
C010T3
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:01 am

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 10):
Ok, I understand. Muito obrigado.

FLY2LIM

De nada.

Oh! Gol's first quarter results release is out! Guess what can be seen on it? A Varig plane next to a Gol one. Well, it doesn't mean much, but the fact that it doesn't wear the current livery may be an indication. OK, it is the same plane, just altered on Photoshop (horrible job by the way). Are we going to see a lot more Eurowhite on Varig's new livery? I must say, I like the current one.

For the curious (Port.): http://www.mz-ir.com/gol/2006/web/arquivos/Gol_ER_1T07_port.pdf
 
PDPsol
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):
Who failed was the Brazilian government. Something isn't right, when all airlines of a generation go belly up in a matter of five years

No, RG's dreadful, self-interested, disastrous corporate governance is what brought its demise; changes in government policy only accelerated the process.

RG's former controlling shareholder, FRB, was incapable of reacting to the liberalization of Brasil's aviation sector over the past decade. They continued to play as if no changes were occurring; meanwhile, the civil aviation industry was completely changing around them.

The Brasilian government liberalized domestic fares over ten years ago; leaving RG with a large claim against the government for years of controlled fare prices. RG was incapable of reacting to market changes and adopting its commercial model.

RG has no one to blame, but its own former controlling shareholder and the executive management team appointed by the Board of Directors dominated by that very same shareholder. Truly a commercial disaster years in the making...
 
C010T3
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 12):
No, RG's dreadful, self-interested, disastrous corporate governance is what brought its demise; changes in government policy only accelerated the process.

RG's former controlling shareholder, FRB, was incapable of reacting to the liberalization of Brasil's aviation sector over the past decade. They continued to play as if no changes were occurring; meanwhile, the civil aviation industry was completely changing around them.

The Brasilian government liberalized domestic fares over ten years ago; leaving RG with a large claim against the government for years of controlled fare prices. RG was incapable of reacting to market changes and adopting its commercial model.

RG has no one to blame, but its own former controlling shareholder and the executive management team appointed by the Board of Directors dominated by that very same shareholder. Truly a commercial disaster years in the making...

I'm sorry, but I'm talking about the Brazilian market as an isolate case. Everything you said is true, but if you see it in a globalized perspective. The Brazilian government is to blame. The transition to a liberal market was too abrupt. If the government intentions for the sector had been clear, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Varig and FRB was incompetent and corrupt, but they are not stupid! The government failed! Why on earth do you have nowadays a bilateral with the USA in which Brazilian airlines only use ca. half of the frequencies and American ones use all of them and still want more?
One thing you must admit. They were very succesful in surviving for two decades in a crisis. How many airlines are there that had faced similar situation?
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:07 am

anuncia lucro liquido trimestral de R$117 milhoes.

Yes, that photoshop picture was bad. Also, how much is 117m. R's in US dollars?

FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 14):
Yes, that photoshop picture was bad. Also, how much is 117m. R's in US dollars?

1 USD = ~2 BRL

That's for today. So roughly U$59 million.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PDPsol
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 13):
The transition to a liberal market was too abrupt.

Governments around the world liberalize markets all the time. They liberalize their electricity and energy markets, their financial markets, their telecommunications markets, their civil aviation markets and too many others to mention here.

Brasil is no stranger to market liberalization and has made enormous strides over the past 15 years in developing and strengthening its economy. Brasil is Latin America's largest economy with an annual GDP approaching USD 1 trillion and has by far the region's largest and most liquid capital markets.

Arguing Brasil's transition to a 'free market' was 'too abrupt' is no excuse for RG's disastrous corporate governance.

In fact, the REASON behind RG's inflexibility and incompetence can be traced to the government's ridiculous fare and market controls. RG believed it could continue to operate 'business as usual. Its Board, of course dominated by the FRB, failed to react and take the strategic measures needed to compete and completely changed environment.

Brasil's government did not liberalize "too fast", nor did it cause the demise of RG. Many, many countries around the world have opened up their civil aviation markets and privatized their government-owned carriers with great success.
 
Arcano
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:38 pm

I'm sorry but I'm not very aware of Varig/Gol integration.

Is it confirmed the the brand "Varig" will remain active?

It will be a shame to see that wonderful livery fly away ...
Regards )(
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LipeGIG
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:09 am

Arcano,

Yes, the Varig brand will remain in use !
It's confirmed.


Felipe @ Rio, just going to the Red Bull Air Race  Smile
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BrianDromey
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 13):
The Brazilian government is to blame. The transition to a liberal market was too abrupt. If the government intentions for the sector had been clear, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Varig and FRB was incompetent and corrupt, but they are not stupid! The government failed!

Well market liberalisation in Europe seemed to work fine. Carriers who realised that thigs were changing did verty well and prospered. Carriers like LH, BA, AF, KL. Those that didnt failed, SN, SR. If an airline cant make money, ti should be grounded. Its as simple as that. Why should employees and suppliers have to work/supply for free, or at least, never get paid?

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 13):
One thing you must admit. They were very succesful in surviving for two decades in a crisis. How many airlines are there that had faced similar situation?

Alitalia. SABENA to name but two. Both of these companies deserve/sederved to be liquidated. If it takes an ariline 20 years to realise its in deep do-do, the problem is not the governments.

EI was a chronic basket case, but it is now one of the most successful and profitible airlines in Europe, and competetes with FR in the vast majority of its European network. EI realised that it needed to change, adapt to new market condtions, and such. It was painful for much of the time, but look at EI now.

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
PDPsol
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 19):
Alitalia. SABENA to name but two. Both of these companies deserve/sederved to be liquidated. If it takes an ariline 20 years to realise its in deep do-do, the problem is not the governments.

EI was a chronic basket case, but it is now one of the most successful and profitible airlines in Europe, and competetes with FR in the vast majority of its European network. EI realised that it needed to change, adapt to new market condtions, and such. It was painful for much of the time, but look at EI now.

Exactly; I completely concur.

In addition to EI, LH and others, one should also mention IB. IB was a COMPLETE basket-case prior to its privatization in 1999. IB, thanks to excellent corporate governance led by its shareholders, has managed to realize consistent operating profits and cash flows. The carrier holds massive cash balances over EUR 1.5 billion and is highly-valued by its shareholders.

IB has developed its commercial franchise, focusing on Europe-Latin America traffic and has managed to grow its market share to ~ 20%. Despite the numerous customer complaints that are widely mentioned in this website, no one can deny this carrier has successfully generated value for its shareholders and investors. IB is doing so well, in fact, several parties are interested in buying the carrier and realizing additional strategic efficiencies, with the advent of further market liberalization; EU-US Open Skies, 2008,

RG was no different to these examples. Unfortunately, its controlling shareholder, namely the FRB, was incapable of reacting to market changes in a successful manner.

As can be expected, RG's operations will now be managed by a shareholder [G3] who DOES know how to operate in a rapidly-changing and dynamic market environment.
 
2wingtips
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:31 pm

According to today's ATWonline here is the new fleet plan for Varig to 2012, when they are scheduled to have 29 737NGs and 22 763s.

Gol yesterday detailed its fleet plan for Varig in conjunction with its first-quarter earnings release (see story above). It said the Varig fleet, which will continue to operate independently of the new parent company, will comprise 14 737-300s and two 767-300ERs at the end of the current quarter. By year end Varig will operate nine 737-300s, five 737-800s and eight 767-300ERs. The 737-300s will be phased out by 2009, when Varig is scheduled to fly eight 737-700s, nine 737-800s and 16 767-300ERs. By 2012 it will operate 14, 15 and 22 of the respective types. Gol said Varig "will provide an attractive service offering to business travelers in the domestic market and offer new services to high-traffic destinations in South America, Europe and North America."

Will the 737NGs come from Gol options/purchase rights? Where will they get 22 763s from? Will they be new/used and /or bought/leased?
 
dougbr2006
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:51 pm

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 21):
by 2009, when Varig is scheduled to fly eight 737-700s, nine 737-800s and 16 767-300ERs

Where are they going to get the 767's will these be old ships or new, Its logical that they would have an all Boeing fleet the same as GOL, what a shame the A320 and A330 would have looked good in VARIG colours !
 
PDPsol
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 21):
Where will they get 22 763s from?

This is a very good question and it appears G3 does not have the luxury of time to wait until the 787-8 Dreamliner is introduced into service to acquire used 767-300ERs from the likes of AC and others...

Plus, there is the question of commonality; how will these aircraft be setup?

Of course, a favorable element is RG's very extensive experience with operating the Boeing 767. RG may have been horribly managed in the past, but it does know how to operate and maintain a Boeing fleet.

Perhaps G3 can copy what LA did earlier this year and place an order for new 767-300ER's and have the option to switch to 787-8 Dreamliners. LA is a fellow expert in running a 767 fleet and was quick to pounce on the opportunity to expand its 767-316ER's.
 
C010T3
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:14 am

Can someone perhaps estimate when new 767 would be delivered, if the orders were placed today?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:39 am

The first two 767-300ER are from EuroAtlantic. IMO the 763 is not a good plane to fight on the European market, just need to see that no one airline is currently using them (except for Air China that should change in favor of A332 very soon on their China-MAD-Brazil service) and i have doubts about the level of comfort that Varig will offer on 2nd hand 763 without IFE and modern seats on Business Class. Although you can improve the seats, it takes sometime, something that Varig doesn't have as they need to resume flights asap.

With 8 planes they will be able to resume no more than 5 destinations/flights to Europe (considering that they should run MAD and CDG with a single plane): 2 planes for FRA, 2 planes for LHR, 2 planes for MXP, 1 plane for CDG and 1 plane for MAD. This scenario shows also that TAM probably will receive valuable frequencies to fly non stop to FRA very soon.

Felipe
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PPVRA
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:14 am

What about AC's A340s being slowly substituted with 773s? Do they already have a destination?
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
jog
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 21):
It said the Varig fleet, which will continue to operate independently of the new parent company, will comprise 14 737-300s and two 767-300ERs at the end of the current quarter. By year end Varig will operate nine 737-300s, five 737-800s and eight 767-300ERs.



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 25):
With 8 planes they will be able to resume no more than 5 destinations/flights to Europe

But they will only have 8 planes by year's end and I thought they have to resume the flights already by the end of the current quarter to keep the rights, don't they? Of course the frequencies do not necessarily have to be granted to someone else afterwards, but still this would mean that they will have to re-apply?

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 26):
What about AC's A340s being slowly substituted with 773s? Do they already have a destination?

According to Felipe's post in the "BRA axes GIG-CGN" thread there are rumours that the 2 A345 could go to TAM...

[Edited 2007-04-23 18:35:22]
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting Jog (Reply 27):
But they will only have 8 planes by year's end and I thought they have to resume the flights already by the end of the current quarter to keep the rights, don't they?

You're right, but Tam is not in a condition to require all the frequencies, Gol expectation is that they will lost 7x FRA frequencies only, IMO.

Quoting Jog (Reply 27):
Of course the frequencies do not necessarily have to be granted to someone else afterwards, but still this would mean that they will have to re-apply?

Yes, they will need to apply and will need to do it again by the year end as they will be not in condition to fly to the United States and some European destinations this year. MIA for example is expected for the first months of 2008.

Quoting Jog (Reply 27):
According to Felipe's post in the "BRA axes GIG-CGN" thread there are rumours that the 2 A345 could go to TAM...

Yes.. it's also mentioned by "Carta Capital" magazine this week.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
sampa737
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
Felipe @ Rio, just going to the Red Bull Air Race

Totally off subject but you brought it up.  Smile Cara, that was phenomenal and unlike anything I have ever seen. I only saw it on Globo Sports and wished I was there in Rio to see it live. Fantastic! Is it scheduled for next year as well? I'll be there!

Okay, back to the original post...sorry guys.
 
VC10er
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:29 am

when will frankfurt service end? varig wesite still sell tickets in august and indicates M11?
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
AF086
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RE: Varig Rebirth Will Include A New Livery?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 30):
when will frankfurt service end? varig wesite still sell tickets in august and indicates M11?

It won't. When the M11s go RG will fly to FRA with 763s (PP-VTC/E).
Please insert a "smart" joke here.

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