VC10DC10
Topic Author
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:56 am

US-EU Open Skies Question

Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:40 pm

Hello all,

I'm curious if the new US-EU Open Skies agreement will affect the Irish government's rule about transatlantic flights to Dublin having to stop in Shannon. Will the rule change, or is it still in effect?

Secondly, since I'm something of an Aer Lingus fan, what (if any) new North American destinations would you expect EI to start now that Open Skies is here? MIA? ATL? SFO? SEA?
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: US-EU Open Skies Question

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:04 pm

EI is starting SFO in the Fall.
And the Shannon Stopover is reduced down from 1:1 to like 3:1 or so.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
VC10DC10
Topic Author
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:56 am

RE: US-EU Open Skies Question

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:09 pm

Thanks, Copa. But why keep the Shannon stopover at all? It somehow seems very anachronistic to me (and that's coming from a dyed-in-the-wool traditionalist!).
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: US-EU Open Skies Question

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:11 pm

Quoting VC10DC10 (Thread starter):

I'm curious if the new US-EU Open Skies agreement will affect the Irish government's rule about transatlantic flights to Dublin having to stop in Shannon. Will the rule change, or is it still in effect?

This wasn't a government 'rule' it was a condition included in the previous US-IE air service agreement.

As noted by Copaair737 the new 'open skies' agreement continues to include a 'Shannon' clause, at reduced levels (1 SNN flight for 3 DUB flights). However even this is phased out at the end of the W08/09 seasons (I think)

[Edited 2007-04-19 08:11:37]
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: US-EU Open Skies Question

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:12 pm

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 2):
Thanks, Copa. But why keep the Shannon stopover at all? It somehow seems very anachronistic to me (and that's coming from a dyed-in-the-wool traditionalist!).

Internal Irish politics.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: US-EU Open Skies Question

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:17 pm

my understanding is slightly different ( though I could have it all wrong of course )

I believe that US-Ireland had an existing agreement that as soon as Open Skies is signed the following happens without having to wait until Open Skies actually comes into effect :

EI permitted to add three new US Gateways

Shannon:Dublin ratio changes from 1:1 to 1:3

but that these are both interim measures until Open Skies come into effect , as , by definition , all restrictions are lifted from that date
 
VC10DC10
Topic Author
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:56 am

RE: US-EU Open Skies Question

Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:27 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 3):
This wasn't a government 'rule' it was a condition included in the previous US-IE air service agreement.

Thank you very much for the correction.

Quoting ANother (Reply 4):

Internal Irish politics.

Aha! If Ben Franklin were alive today, he'd have to admit that there are really three constants: death, taxes, and internal politics.  Smile

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 5):

Thanks for your information as well. So, if EI can open three new U.S. gateways, and the first is SFO, that still leaves them two....
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: US-EU Open Skies Question

Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:20 pm

It has been changed 3:1 in favour of DUB and by 08 it will be gone altogether.

EI have added SFO, IAD and MCO from the Autumn, you can check out schedules and book flights already on www.aerlingus.com
John Hancock
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: US-EU Open Skies Question

Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:50 pm

For the definitive response you need to look at the transitional provisions for Ireland (Annex I Section 4)

"Notwithstanding any other provisions of this Agreement, this section shall apply to scheduled and charter combination air transportation between Ireland and the United States with effect from the beginning of IATA Winter season 2006/2007 until the end of the IATA Winter season 2007/2008.

a. (i) Each U.S. and Community airline may operate 3 non-stop flights between the United States and Dublin for each non-stop flight that the airline operates between the United States and Shannon. This entitlement for non-stop Dublin flights shall be based on an average of operations over the entire three-season transitional period. A flight shall be deemed to be a non-stop Dublin, or a non-stop Shannon, flight, according to the first point of entry into, or the last point of departure from, Ireland.

(ii) The requirement to serve Shannon in subparagraph (a)(i) of this Section shall terminate if any airline inaugurates scheduled or charter combination service between Dublin and the United States, in either direction, without operating at least one non-stop flight to Shannon for every three non-stop flights to Dublin, averaged over the transition period."

So these rules end the last weekend of March 2008.

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