NYC777
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Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:28 pm

Here's Boeing's Weekly Update for 4/17/07:

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

5 x 737 for CIT
2 x 737 for UFO
5 x 737 previously UFO now for Sky Europe
Cancellation of 4 737s

737s making a come back...watch out!

[Edited 2007-04-19 16:29:39]
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Danny
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:31 pm

2x737 are probably exercised options by Southwest.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:37 pm

Last week it was the week of the wide boys and this one it's "the 737 Strikes Back!" Big grin

Good YTD totals for B (but A isn't too bad either), one thing does concern me though - this year B will build about 400 planes, A about 450 and yet they took orders in the last 2 years for nearly 4000 planes (that 4.5 year production) - either they're some lean years in sales terms ahead or they're both going to have to bump production even more.
 
raggi
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:44 pm

What, no large order for WBs??  Silly
I was getting used to double digit 76s, 77s and/or 78s every week... hehe



raggi
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Flying-Tiger
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
Good YTD totals for B (but A isn't too bad either), one thing does concern me though - this year B will build about 400 planes, A about 450 and yet they took orders in the last 2 years for nearly 4000 planes (that 4.5 year production) - either they're some lean years in sales terms ahead or they're both going to have to bump production even more.

Considering their forecasts of about 20,000 new planes for the next 20 years to come we will have a pretty sharp trough sooner or later.
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EI321
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
either they're some lean years in sales terms ahead or they're both going to have to bump production even more.

Airbus is increasing production of the models that are responsible for the bulk of those sales - A320 line will reach 40/month including the new Chinese line and A330/340 will reach at least 9/month. Its too early to wory about A350XWB levels. Boeing were loking at increasing 777 production also I believe. If they dont increase 787 production they will certainly see a slowdown in 787 orders.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:49 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 4):
Considering their forecasts of about 20,000 new planes for the next 20 years to come we will have a pretty sharp trough sooner or later.

So talk of production of around 500 / 600 each a year will be about ok but the sales have to slow down.

From memory by 2011 Ab want to make 40 A318/19/20/21, 9 A330/40s and 4 A380s a month - that's nearly 630 planes a year! - I'm guessing that Boeing has similar ideas with all of the 787s that they have to make too
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 4):
Considering their forecasts of about 20,000 new planes for the next 20 years to come we will have a pretty sharp trough sooner or later.

If the market setles at 50/50, thats still only 500/year each. Not sure about Boeing, but the current Airbus plans should allow for that figure easily.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 5):
Boeing were loking at increasing 777 production also I believe. If they dont increase 787 production they will certainly see a slowdown in 787 orders.

I believe the 777 is going to 7 a month.

If the suppliers can feed it - and orders flood in once the 787 takes the skies - I expect Boeing could go to 20 a month on the current line around late 2010.
 
deltadc9
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
I expect Boeing could go to 20 a month on the current line around late 2010.

Would that not be the highest widebody production rate ever? What other WB's have exceeded 10 a month muchless approached one per business day?
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:43 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 9):
Would that not be the highest widebody production rate ever? What other WB's have exceeded 10 a month muchless approached one per business day?

The initial rate will launch at four per month, rising to six per month within one year. The rate then increases to 10 per month in 2010 under the current rate acceleration plan agreed under the initial study. Boeing are considering the feasibility of going to 14 or even 16 per month when the 787-10 enters service, but these studies predate the launch of the A350-1000.
 
LY777
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:48 am

Nothing very exciting this week...I still wonder why the 737 is selling so poorly...Maybe Boeing is waiting for Paris Air Show?
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scouseflyer
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:49 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 11):
Nothing very exciting this week...I still wonder why the 737 is selling so poorly...Maybe Boeing is waiting for Paris Air Show?

I guess a lot can be explained by the quote that Carson made a few months ago about everything being sold out until 2010 or 2011!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 10):
Boeing are considering the feasibility of going to 14 or even 16 per month when the 787-10 enters service, but these studies predate the launch of the A350-1000.

The A350-1000 hasn't been launched.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 7):
If the market setles at 50/50, thats still only 500/year each. Not sure about Boeing, but the current Airbus plans should allow for that figure easily.

The volume of aircraft deliveries might settle at 50/50, but the value of aircraft being delivered is consistently trending in Boeing's favor.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 9):
Would that [20 787 a month] not be the highest widebody production rate ever?

Easily
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 13):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 10):
Boeing are considering the feasibility of going to 14 or even 16 per month when the 787-10 enters service, but these studies predate the launch of the A350-1000.

The A350-1000 hasn't been launched.

Do you mean an industrial launch? Has the 787-10?

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 13):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 7):
If the market setles at 50/50, thats still only 500/year each. Not sure about Boeing, but the current Airbus plans should allow for that figure easily.

The volume of aircraft deliveries might settle at 50/50, but the value of aircraft being delivered is consistently trending in Boeing's favor.

Thats like something randy would say.

Looking at your point, lets assume the following values for each aircraft from the lines: A380 200m, A330/340 100m, A320 30m, 747 160m, 777 120m, 787 100m, 767 75m, 737 30m.

2007
Airbus
8 A330/340 per month, until now was doing a handful of A300s per yr, A320 30? per month. Lets Ignore the A300.
Total: 1700m per month

Boeing
6 777 per month , about 1 for the 767 and 1 for the 747, 737 25? per month.
Total: 1705m per month.

2010
Airbus
A330/340 will likely be at 10 per month. A380 will be 4 per month. A320 will be 40 per month.
Total: 3000m per month.

Boeing
777 will likely be 7 per month, 787 will be 10 per month*, 747 will be about 2 per month, 767 will be 1 per month, 737 will be 30? per month.
Total: 3060m.


2013
Impossible to say. The A330/A340/777 will have started to reduce. A380/747 will likely be the same. The A350 will be introduced. The 787 will likely be about 14 per month.

edit: adjusted as per below.

PS does the current A330/340 rate include the A330 tanker?

*this happens some time in 2010. Until then 6 per month, but I included the 10/mth figure for all of 2010.

[Edited 2007-04-19 19:05:22]
 
brendows
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
747 will be about 1 per month

In 2010 the figure will be more like 2 per month, if not 3.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
767 will be any? per month

It will, UPS secured orders into 2012.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:52 am

Who cares about revenue volume.

If you want to have this discussion lets talk about profit.

We can start with the A380. How many units now to breakeven, given the delays, penalties, and the strong euro?
 
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United787
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 11):
I still wonder why the 737 is selling so poorly

Maybe it is because Boeing has hinted that the 737 replacement might be sooner than thought.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 11):
Maybe Boeing is waiting for Paris Air Show?

I don't think Boeing has control over when airlines place orders  Wink
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting Brendows (Reply 15):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
747 will be about 1 per month

In 2010 the figure will be more like 2 per month, if not 3.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
767 will be any? per month

It will, UPS secured orders into 2012.

cheers, will adjust
 
WINGS
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
Here's Boeing's Weekly Update for 4/17/07:

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

5 x 737 for CIT
2 x 737 for UFO
5 x 737 previously UFO now for Sky Europe
Cancellation of 4 737s

Well it's good to find out who was the airline behind the UFO. Hopefully more will be revealed soon.

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
737s making a come back...watch out!

7 minus 4 = 3 frames.

So three new orders means a come back? Even the A32X managed to outsell the B737 this week with 3 A320's for Israir and 1 A319ACJ for Senagal.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:32 am

EI321's projected rate does not even include what happens to the 767 line if Boeing wins the KC-X competition. In that case, the 767 will be secure for some time, and they'll have to increase the production rate.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
Do you mean an industrial launch?

The A350-1000 has not been given an industrial launch nor has Airbus found a launch customer at this time.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
Has the 787-10?

As of April 19, 2007: the 787-10 has not been launched either

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
Thats like something randy would say.

Uhh... okay. Make up your own fake numbers if you want, but the trend is quite clear that Boeing is securing a greater value of orders (and therefore deliveries) than Airbus, who is becoming heavily dependent on narrow-body orders to maintain sales volume.  Yeah sure
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 21):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
Thats like something randy would say.

Uhh... okay. Make up your own fake numbers if you want

If you think any are below are that unrealistic, please say so.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
Looking at your point, lets assume the following values for each aircraft from the lines: A380 200m, A330/340 100m, A320 30m, 747 160m, 777 120m, 787 100m, 767 75m, 737 30m.



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 21):
greater value of orders (and therefore deliveries)

Orders dont = deliverys. If Airbus or Boeing get 1000 orders in 2007, the value of those orders could be $x, but unless they plan on delivering all 1000 in a given year, then they have just taken over two years worth of production, which will not be $x per year.

[Edited 2007-04-19 19:51:20]
 
deltadc9
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 13):
The volume of aircraft deliveries might settle at 50/50,

I think the chances of an even split are remote.

Quoting Brendows (Reply 15):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
747 will be about 1 per month

In 2010 the figure will be more like 2 per month, if not 3.

Boeing was making 1 per month, last year they announced an increase to 1.5 or 18 per year. They are now looking at 2 per month but have not AFAIK even started that ramp up. I realy do not see them taking it past 3 or 4.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:19 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 5):
A320 line will reach 40/month including the new Chinese line

When will the Chinese A320 line open?
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 24):
When will the Chinese A320 line open?

Next year, ramping to full capacity (of four planes per month) by 2011.

http://www.eads.com/1024/en/investor...ir/2006/20060608_airbus_china.html
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
Next year, ramping to full capacity (of four planes per month) by 2011.

http://www.eads.com/1024/en/investor...ir/2006/20060608_airbus_china.html

The article you linked to says:

Quote:
The site selection is an important step, which enables the on-going feasibility study to continue, with an objective to reach a final joint decision on the setting up of the FAL by end September 2006.

So has the feasibility study been completed and a final decision been made? Ground broken for the new assembly facility?
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:17 am

That I do not know. This article says the line won't open until 2009: http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...ews_top+news+index_global+business

Quote:
Even finding the workers China needs may be tough. As Airbus prepares to build its A320 jets in China starting in 2009, it's worried about getting experienced aviation-industry hands.
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 21):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
Do you mean an industrial launch?

The A350-1000 has not been given an industrial launch nor has Airbus found a launch customer at this time.

Actually they have found one. Qatar have said they will be firming up their order soon, which will include 20 A350-1000s. But as you know, what you say only holds true in the context of disclosures. Boeing have found customers for the 787 that we do not yet know of, same goes for airbus.

[Edited 2007-04-19 21:28:53]
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 21):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
Do you mean an industrial launch?

The A350-1000 has not been given an industrial launch

Actually, how do you come to the conclusion that they gave industrial launch to the -800XWB & -900XWB but not the -1000XWB?
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 29):
Actually, how do you come to the conclusion that they gave industrial launch to the -800XWB & -900XWB but not the -1000XWB?

i think that there's some confusion - it was mentioned that BA had seen the specs for the A358 and A359 but the ones for the -1000 were not quite ready. I was under the impression that all 3 variants were given an industrial launch in December last year.
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 30):
BA had seen the specs for the A358 and A359 but the ones for the -1000 were not quite ready.

I think thats plausable considering that it will be the last one to enter service. It seems to be a similar situation with the 787-10.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 30):
I was under the impression that all 3 variants were given an industrial launch in December last year.

Thats correct. In fact I think even the freighter & LR version were also launched, even though they are 10 years away.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:16 am

What are all the different "launch" point for airliners?

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 30):
industrial launch


I know in my industry/company it goes:
CV - Concept Verification
DV - Design Verification
PV - Production Verification
LRIP - Low Rate Initial Production
and finally
Production

Thanks,

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting Tugger (Reply 32):
What are all the different "launch" point for airliners?

There are lots of 'programme milestones' on the 787. I think this is a good way to relay the aircrafts development to the public.

[Edited 2007-04-19 23:32:48]
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 29):
Actually, how do you come to the conclusion that they gave industrial launch to the -800XWB & -900XWB but not the -1000XWB?

Because at this point there is absolutely noting binding about the A350-1000. Airbus has signed no firm contracts with airlines, they have established no firm suppliers, and they are probably six-seven years from establishing firm technical specifications for the -1000. Airbus can claim they have "launched" the A350-1000 all they want, but anyone with sense should know better...

Quoting EI321 (Reply 28):
Boeing have found customers for the 787 that we do not yet know of, same goes for airbus.

For about six years now, Boeing's internal policy has been to report any/all firm orders at the time they are signed. An airline can choose to claim the order or remain anonymous, but there isn't anything to suggest Boeing allows an airline to hide a firm order from the public.

Without a doubt Boeing is in the process of negotiating firm orders with customers as we speak, but to suggest that Boeing already has firm orders under wraps is a stretch....

Quoting EI321 (Reply 22):
Orders dont = deliverys. If Airbus or Boeing get 1000 orders in 2007, the value of those orders could be $x, but unless they plan on delivering all 1000 in a given year

You're still missing the point.
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:48 am

How come you don't see the order from AV for 10 788s + rights for 10 more? Are they still part of the Unidentified?
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 34):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 29):
Actually, how do you come to the conclusion that they gave industrial launch to the -800XWB & -900XWB but not the -1000XWB?

Because at this point there is absolutely noting binding about the A350-1000. Airbus has signed no firm contracts with airlines, they have established no firm suppliers, and they are probably six-seven years from establishing firm technical specifications for the -1000. Airbus can claim they have "launched" the A350-1000 all they want, but anyone with sense should know better...

None of that has anything to do with the question. It appears that the aircraft has in fact been launched.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 34):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 22):
Orders dont = deliverys. If Airbus or Boeing get 1000 orders in 2007, the value of those orders could be $x, but unless they plan on delivering all 1000 in a given year

You're still missing the point.

What is the point? Orders recieved in a particular year do not indicate that Boeing / Airbus will produce at that level at any time in the future. Boeing have signed about 1000 firm orders in both '05 and '06, but they have no plans to produce 1000 aircraft a year in the future.

[Edited 2007-04-19 23:53:36]
 
SCAT15F
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:04 am

I have a feeling this EK range issue is holding up the 748I firm configuration, and everyone who is looking at the 748I is waiting to see the results of the weight loss program and new range specifications. Once that is done, I see potentially 40-60 748I orders this year, plus some more 748F orders.  scratchchin 
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 37):
I have a feeling this EK range issue is holding up the 748I firm configuration, and everyone who is looking at the 748I is waiting to see the results of the weight loss program and new range specifications.

Theres only so much they can do with it. EK are just showboating. I dont think the range is an issue for BA or China Airlines
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:48 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
If the suppliers can feed it - and orders flood in once the 787 takes the skies - I expect Boeing could go to 20 a month on the current line around late 2010.

Not sure you'll see a flood of large orders, but you'll likely see a lot of smaller orders as smaller or less dominant airlines get in line for the plane. I suspect in the next few months the large orders will have all come in; most of them anyway. With as much of a backlog as Boeing has on these airplanes, I suspect some airlines are going to wait and see how the bird performs and how much passenger appeal it really has. And they'll have plenty of time to do their observing.
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manni
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:45 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
Cancellation of 4 737s

Why would anyone cancelling 737s? Surely they must be able to sell them immidiately after taking delivery,just as DL is reportedly planning to do. Unless the future of that airline can not be guaranteed until then. I'd say the cancellation is Ariana Afghan's order for 4 737-700s.
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:37 pm

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 35):
How come you don't see the order from AV for 10 788s + rights for 10 more? Are they still part of the Unidentified?

That is because they were ordered in 2006 and appear under that years sales. They booked their 10 on 4 October, 2006 and when the order was formally announced Boeing changed it from a UFO to Avianca.

A user defined search at the page linked in the original post will reveal the Avianca order.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Boeing Orders For 4/17/07

Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 41):
That is because they were ordered in 2006 and appear under that years sales.

THANKS
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN