georgebush
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Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:40 am

Does anyone know if Frontier will be coming to Fort Wayne?? I have heard so many rumors and now rumors of bids going around between the airlines here at FWA. I know my company has been asking us if we would be willing to ground handle the two 170's each day to DEN. I cant wait to see how this all turns out but F9 service to FWA would be a knockout!
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:50 am

Given the success of Frontier's new DEN-Louisville service, as with all their heartland routes, Fort Wayne might be a very good idea, so maybe they are looking around for more of the same?

I don't think FWA is on the list of airports with whom Frontier is negotiating, but that could have changed after SDF. But - I'm not sure they have anough aircraft to do it, at least by summer. The fleets - Airbus and Embraer - are going flat chat.

Could it be United? Although I'm not sure why they would need additional ground handling.

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BA
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:36 am

There was a thread recently about UA possibly starting DEN-FWA.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
ATAIndy
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:40 am

Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-MIA, MIA-IND
 
skyrat
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:43 am

I have also heard that F9 is in talks with a few companies for the ground handling contract. I hear that the airport pretty much has it wrapped up and they are waiting for F9 to come out and annouce it. What I'm wondering is, will United respond to F9 coming to FWA if indeed they do come?
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Tornado82
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:33 am

I couldn't see FWA-DEN supporting more than a 50 seat a/c, and IIRC Frontier's smallest is the CR7, correct? Not to mention F9's connectivity at DEN just isn't quite the same as UA's.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:40 am

Gosh, I hope that this is true. We might go out to Seattle in August, and F9 would make it easy and cheap to get there. I don't care if it's an E170 operated by Republic... I just want more (and cheaper) options out West and to the Mexican resort destinations. When I see Dave Young this Tuesday, I'll be sure to ask.

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 4):
What I'm wondering is, will United respond to F9 coming to FWA if indeed they do come?

I wouldn't be surprised if UA does respond...
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
skyrat
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:43 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 5):
I couldn't see FWA-DEN supporting more than a 50 seat a/c, and IIRC Frontier's smallest is the CR7, correct? Not to mention F9's connectivity at DEN just isn't quite the same as UA's.

You would be surprised just how many PAX travel to DEN from FWA. Not to mention all the western connections. G4 is doing so well in FWA, that they are adding a 3rd flight a week to LAS. Their SFB, PIE flights also go out full. Then you have to look at MQ and their DFW flights that go out full pretty much every day. Also many people are feud up with ORD, DTW, and ATL. FWA support DEN service without a doubt!
flown:146,a319,a320,717,722,733,735,738,744,752,763,772,crj2,crj7,crj9,dc9,dc10,e135,e145,e170,e175,frj,md80
 
skyrat
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
I don't care if it's an E170 operated by Republic

They sure beat the 50 seat RJs that we have now in FWA!! The E170 is a very PAX friendly aircraft.
flown:146,a319,a320,717,722,733,735,738,744,752,763,772,crj2,crj7,crj9,dc9,dc10,e135,e145,e170,e175,frj,md80
 
ATAIndy
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:40 am

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 4):
What I'm wondering is, will United respond to F9 coming to FWA if indeed they do come?

That will surely over saturate the market and doom one of the carriers in FWA won't it?

-Feister
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floridaflyboy
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:12 pm

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 8):
They sure beat the 50 seat RJs that we have now in FWA!! The E170 is a very PAX friendly aircraft.

You can say that again! The E70 is a wonderful aircraft. Mainline comfort on a regional. I just hope that when the Horizon contract ends, they send the E70 to BIL. Right now, the schedule still doesn't list a date for the BIL service to transition, so I wonder it BIL will become a Lynx DH4 destination instead.
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ejmmsu
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:05 pm

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 7):
Also many people are feud up with ORD, DTW, and ATL.

I agree with you on ORD and ATL. Why would someone be fed up with DTW? It is one of the nicest facilities in the country, and has nowhere near the delays that ORD or ATL has.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting Georgebush (Thread starter):
I know my company has been asking us if we would be willing to ground handle the two 170's each day to DEN.

Wouldn't whoever is handling the YV flights now handle any UA DEN service? Heck, even if it's mainline, an express carrier can do it if it's just a few flights.
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georgebush
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:45 pm

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 7):
You would be surprised just how many PAX travel to DEN from FWA. Not to mention all the western connections. G4 is doing so well in FWA, that they are adding a 3rd flight a week to LAS. Their SFB, PIE flights also go out full. Then you have to look at MQ and their DFW flights that go out full pretty much every day. Also many people are feud up with ORD, DTW, and ATL. FWA support DEN service without a doubt!

Yes I know that if they come it will be two flights daily. They already asked us at work about our schedules for a morning and evening DEN flight.

I also doubt that United would respond with DEN service, because their passengers going there now are mostly west coast connections, and I doubt those folks would want to lose their 1k status with UA to start flying on F9. UA knows this and I think they have bigger things on their agenda then adding DEN flights out of FWA.

Quoting ATAIndy (Reply 9):
That will surely over saturate the market and doom one of the carriers in FWA won't it?

No it wont. It will finally stop so many Fort Wayners from driving to INDY! (no offense) to catch their cheaper flights on WN or F9

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
When I see Dave Young this Tuesday, I'll be sure to ask.



Ask him about his meetings with Kristina Holmes (Community and Government Affairs Manager FWA) I know that she was out in DEN this week, on business, most likely negotiations lets hope!!

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 5):
couldn't see FWA-DEN supporting more than a 50 seat a/c, and IIRC Frontier's smallest is the CR7

"If you build it, they will come" I also believe that Frontier's smallest aircraft would be the E170 operated by Shuttle America. I'm not sure who operates their 700's if they indeed have them, which I dont think they do.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
BA
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:58 pm

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 13):
I also doubt that United would respond with DEN service, because their passengers going there now are mostly west coast connections, and I doubt those folks would want to lose their 1k status with UA to start flying on F9. UA knows this and I think they have bigger things on their agenda then adding DEN flights out of FWA.

Actually, UA has been doing quite a bit of expansion east of Denver as of late.

They started Huntsville, AL in February and are starting Dayton, OH and Raleigh-Durham, NC this Tuesday.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:05 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 11):
Why would someone be fed up with DTW? It is one of the nicest facilities in the country, and has nowhere near the delays that ORD or ATL has.

Absolutely agreed that Detroit is one of if not THE nicest facility in the country. However, I think people being fed up on that one is more that they are fed up with Northwest Airlines, not DTW itself.
Good goes around!
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:22 pm

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 15):
However, I think people being fed up on that one is more that they are fed up with Northwest Airlines

Why is that? NW has been near or at the top among the legacies in least customer compliants, on-time performance, and least baggage problems.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:45 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 16):
Why is that? NW has been near or at the top among the legacies in least customer compliants, on-time performance, and least baggage problems.

I don't know. I've kind of wondered that myself. Both here in Florida and back in my home state of Montana, everyone seems to have a special sort of hatred for Northwest. But, that could also be because both of those states are generally Delta-dominated. I have only flown NW on one occasion, and I found them OK. Nothing special (no DL or CO), but not awful, either. Nothing to complain about, but also nothing to brag about. However, I must say, NW's telephone reservation people are BY FAR the best in the business. However, although they are top in DOT statistics, they also consistently rate low in other ratings (i.e. consumer product ratings), for example, they were second or third from the bottom in the JD Power and Associates airline ratings.

[Edited 2007-04-21 07:47:37]
Good goes around!
 
Tornado82
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:22 pm

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 13):

"If you build it, they will come" I also believe that Frontier's smallest aircraft would be the E170 operated by Shuttle America. I'm not sure who operates their 700's if they indeed have them, which I dont think they do.

They've had CRJ-700's for quite some time, alot longer than the newbie E-170's.
 
georgebush
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:18 am

Who operates the 700's?
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 19):
Who operates the 700's?

Horizon Air operates the CRJ-700's.
Good goes around!
 
skyrat
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 11):
Why would someone be fed up with DTW

9E is always late. I don't think the first two flights ever go out ontime.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 13):
and I doubt those folks would want to lose their 1k status with UA to start flying on F9

Exactly the reason to add flights to compete against F9 and not lose any 1k's to them.
flown:146,a319,a320,717,722,733,735,738,744,752,763,772,crj2,crj7,crj9,dc9,dc10,e135,e145,e170,e175,frj,md80
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 21):
9E is always late. I don't think the first two flights ever go out ontime.

The first two FWA-DTW flights of today and yesterday were all early.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
georgebush
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 21):
Exactly the reason to add flights to compete against F9 and not lose any 1k's to them.

Ok dude, I know how much you want OO DEN flights, but its not realistic. Besides the 1K's which thrown into the whole population of DEN goer's is very slim, who is going to pay 100 to 200 percent MORE to fly to DEN on UA when they can jump on a F9 DEN flight which is likely to be more reliable, more comfortable (E170), and less expensive. UA may be able to offer DEN service but not near the price of what F9 can...
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
nosedive
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be surprised if UA does respond...

Yup, just like UA did on LIT, BNA, MEM, SDF....

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 7):
Also many people are feud up with ORD, DTW, and ATL.

Profits before pity.

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 21):
Quoting Georgebush (Reply 13):and I doubt those folks would want to lose their 1k status with UA to start flying on F9
Exactly the reason to add flights to compete against F9 and not lose any 1k's to them.

You're joking right?
 
skyrat
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 23):
Ok dude, I know how much you want OO DEN flights, but its not realistic. Besides the 1K's which thrown into the whole population of DEN goer's is very slim, who is going to pay 100 to 200 percent MORE to fly to DEN on UA when they can jump on a F9 DEN flight which is likely to be more reliable, more comfortable (E170), and less expensive. UA may be able to offer DEN service but not near the price of what F9 can...

I'm pretty sure I know a little more about where UA Pax are going to than you do. DEN is one of our most popular destinations for UA out of FWA. Also many have to connect through DEN to get to the mountain cities. There is no doubt in my mind that 2 UAX CR7's a day would work well for FWA. I'm told all the time by the PAX that they would be willing to pay more to have a nonstop flight to DEN. Also we have lost a lot of customers to other airlines due to ATC delays going into ORDand thats a fact!
flown:146,a319,a320,717,722,733,735,738,744,752,763,772,crj2,crj7,crj9,dc9,dc10,e135,e145,e170,e175,frj,md80
 
TedEx
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:48 pm

How about a couple CRJ-200s to MKE?
 
Tornado82
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:05 pm

Quoting Tedex (Reply 26):
How about a couple CRJ-200s to MKE?

Your best hope there is probably whatever Midwest's smallest will be going onward, the Beech or whatever.
 
georgebush
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:04 pm

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 25):
I'm told all the time by the PAX that they would be willing to pay more to have a nonstop flight to DEN.

Yea, and a nonstop direct DEN flight on Frontier, a lot cheaper than a UAX flight, would be Christmas to those folks!

My point... Why would UA add a flight that they know can't compete in price to a lower cost carrier?
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
georgebush
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:13 pm

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 7):
Also many people are feud up with ORD, DTW, and ATL. FWA support DEN service without a doubt!

Right on!

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 11):
Why would someone be fed up with DTW? It is one of the nicest facilities in the country, and has nowhere near the delays that ORD or ATL has.

Are you joking!? DTW could freaking give pax free PlayStation Three's as they get off their flights, but thats not going to change their delays. They might not be associated with ATC but DTW has delays often.

And to even go farther, NW (DTW) has more delays going out of FWA than DL (ATL) and ATL is a much bigger airport than DTW. And a pretty nice facility if I may say so myself.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 29):
Are you joking!? DTW could freaking give pax free PlayStation Three's as they get off their flights, but thats not going to change their delays.

That would still backfire, as most people want Nintendo Wiis, not PS3s...

Quoting Tedex (Reply 26):
How about a couple CRJ-200s to MKE?

As much as I'd like to see Midwest come here, I think that FWA is rather low on their radar screen. Didn't Skyway briefly serve FWA-MKE with the B1900 before 9/11?
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
skyrat
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:24 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 30):
As much as I'd like to see Midwest come here, I think that FWA is rather low on their radar screen. Didn't Skyway briefly serve FWA-MKE with the B1900 before 9/11?

Since OO is now a Midwest Connect carrier, I can see them adding more OO stations to there route map.
flown:146,a319,a320,717,722,733,735,738,744,752,763,772,crj2,crj7,crj9,dc9,dc10,e135,e145,e170,e175,frj,md80
 
Tornado82
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 28):

My point... Why would UA add a flight that they know can't compete in price to a lower cost carrier?

You act as if F9 is oh-so-cheap to fly on, but they're not in many instances, and they're costs will NOT be low running DEN-FWA. UA could compete with F9 easily if they so desired. On CRJ-700's Frontier would be able to go no more than 2x out of the gate because Fort Wayne could never handle more than 140ish seats on that route straight out of the starting blocks, so they'd be opening that whole new station for 2x.. albeit with subcontracted ground crew I'm sure.

UA could easily just move an ORD hop to become a DEN hop with only the additional expense of the extra fuel/crew times to DEN instead of only to ORD. All the people, ticket counters, ticketing kiosks/equipment, etc. are already in place.

United to DEN I could see any day... Frontier in Fort Wayne I'll never believe until the first (JetConnect) jet lands. It's nothing against FWA, there is just ALOT lower hanging fruit still out there for Frontier. Does ANYBODY (Allegiant does NOT count here, that's subdaily niche vacation travel) run a > 50 seat aircraft into FWA now? If airlines with big connectivity potential can't, F9's relatively meager connectivity potential at Denver won't cut it.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 29):
And to even go farther, NW (DTW) has more delays going out of FWA than DL (ATL) and ATL is a much bigger airport than DTW.

Somehow I find this hard to believe as well, until I see some kind of proof. ATL is well known for its delays, DTW is a relatively clean moving hub, and NW isn't that bad of an airline.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:24 am

I forgot to add one thing: FWA loses over 50% of potential pax to IND due to the huge LCC presence at IND, and I think that at one point recently, it might have been as high as 60%. If F9 came in and drove down fares out West, the passenger leakage could be reduced.

To put it into perspective: In 2005, the national passenger average for airports the size of FWA was 700,000 pax... at FWA, it was 316,000 pax (these are FAA numbers, not mine). Since 80% of FWA's passenger leakage goes to IND, there's a market of at least 307,200 pax waiting to be tapped. Also, if F9 launches FWA, there's also the potential of passengers driving to FWA from SBN and TOL to catch F9 service to DEN. In other words, F9 shouldn't have to worry about filling up 2 E170s a day to DEN.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 29):
Are you joking!? DTW could freaking give pax free PlayStation Three's as they get off their flights, but thats not going to change their delays. They might not be associated with ATC but DTW has delays often.

Please back yourself up with some statistics. If DTW was so delay prone, then NW wouldn't have been the top legacy in on-time performance. DTW's runway setup is much better than at ORD. On days with low visibility, DTW is running almost normal operations, while operations at ORD are so limited that many flights there have to be cancelled.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
georgebush
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 32):
You act as if F9 is oh-so-cheap to fly on, but they're not in many instances, and they're costs will NOT be low running DEN-FWA. UA could compete with F9 easily if they so desired. On CRJ-700's Frontier would be able to go no more than 2x out of the gate because Fort Wayne could never handle more than 140ish seats on that route straight out of the starting blocks, so they'd be opening that whole new station for 2x.. albeit with subcontracted ground crew I'm sure.

Ok I bet you could ask ANYONE on this website and ask them if a FWA-DEN ticket would be cheaper on F9 or on UA and I know that YOU know which one of those would be cheaper. The subcontracted ground crew is already there and they handle the G4 flights. And may I remind you that at FWA the G4 flights were jammed packed right out of the starting blocks! If UA adds a DEN flight it will be strictly because they know that their business travelers wont care about paying less to fly a cheaper airline.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 33):
FWA loses over 50% of potential pax to IND due to the huge LCC presence at IND, and I think that at one point recently, it might have been as high as 60%. If F9 came in and drove down fares out West, the passenger leakage could be reduced.

You are exactly right. Most people dont understand exactly how many people from Fort Wayne drive all the way down to IND to get their flights. Not only do they pick up low cost carriers, but tickets on mainline airlines are a heck of a lot cheaper out of IND, even on UA. The people at the Fort Wayne Airport authority have to deal with getting those folks to start flying back out of FWA, and they have to do that by getting lowER cost carriers. Not saying that F9 is a LCC, but it for damn sure beats what UA could offer.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:03 am

Well..As a former Fort Wayner, To me it makes more sense for UA to put an Express flight or 2 into FWA than Frontier. But hey, our here are FAT we thought they were the cats meow also, and now look..they came, they took the cash, and now they are leaving after screwing it all up themselves.

I'd be hesitant to welcome them with open arms my friends. They have left a very sour note out here at FAT.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I lived in FWA when UA ran 727-022's and 727-222's ona FWA-SBN-DEN routing.
(get this from the good old days, one winter it was routed FWA-SBN-DEN-BOI-GEG-SEA! IIRC it arrived SEA about 5pm PST after leaving FWA around 8:30 or 9 AM. IF you all day to get to SEA, it was the ticket for lots of t/o & landings!)

Back to topic..you guys might be better off if UA did it rather than Frontier/Lynx, just based on our experience here.

In either event, FWA-DEN again would be good for the whole area and gain back some of the leakage.
 
georgebush
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 34):
On days with low visibility, DTW is running almost normal operations, while operations at ORD are so limited that many flights there have to be cancelled.

So its normal for them to delay their flights almost two hours? And how can I give you facts to prove that they have delayed flights!? Id be copying and pasting out of flight aware all night!

ORD is a main hub for TWO airlines... DTW cant claim that. DTW also doesn't have 90 flights landing an hour using (under normal operations) 3 runways, and another 3 runways for takeoffs, just to be able to handle their 90 flights. DTW doesn't even have an excuse for some of their delays, and maybe being at Fort Wayne I see the worst of them because we are so close... idk.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
nosedive
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RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 28):
My point... Why would UA add a flight that they know can't compete in price to a lower cost carrier?

So... by your logic UA should pack up DEN entirely. Granted, DEN has lost UA flights in the past few yrs, but still. Companies adapt.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 35):
Not saying that F9 is a LCC, but it for damn sure beats what UA could offer.



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 35):
Ok I bet you could ask ANYONE on this website and ask them if a FWA-DEN ticket would be cheaper on F9 or on UA and I know that YOU know which one of those would be cheaper.

Hehe, you and your blanket statements amuse me. LCC does not mean always lowest ticket costs. In fact, some random samplings stated sometimes UA was cheaper, sometimes F9. Over memorial day weekend DEN-SFO, F9 wins by $22 DEN-DTW tie. DEN-SMF UA wins by $14. Then again, statements like yours are why I would trust a.net as much as wikipedia. And on and on and on.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 37):
So its normal for them to delay their flights almost two hours? And how can I give you facts to prove that they have delayed flights!? Id be copying and pasting out of flight aware all night!

In other words, you don't have these facts.

Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 36):
As I mentioned in the other thread, I lived in FWA when UA ran 727-022's and 727-222's ona FWA-SBN-DEN routing.

Times change.

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 31):
Since OO is now a Midwest Connect carrier, I can see them adding more OO stations to there route map.

Please tell me why that means FWA gets a flight.

Quoting Skyrat (Reply 25):
DEN is one of our most popular destinations for UA out of FWA.

O/D numbers?
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1510
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 37):
So its normal for them to delay their flights almost two hours? And how can I give you facts to prove that they have delayed flights!? Id be copying and pasting out of flight aware all night!

ORD is a main hub for TWO airlines... DTW cant claim that. DTW also doesn't have 90 flights landing an hour using (under normal operations) 3 runways, and another 3 runways for takeoffs, just to be able to handle their 90 flights. DTW doesn't even have an excuse for some of their delays, and maybe being at Fort Wayne I see the worst of them because we are so close... idk.

Statistically, I believe Ejmmsu is absolutely correct, that ORD is much more delay prone than DTW. However, some of 9E's routes are INCREDIBLY delay prone. NW's own flights, however, are mostly on-time out of DTW.
Good goes around!
 
kingcavalier
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:02 am

RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 36):
To me it makes more sense for UA to put an Express flight or 2 into FWA than Frontier.

This could simply siphon off UA's ORD traffic. UA has not added a SDF-DEN to compete with F9 there.

Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 36):
they came, they took the cash, and now they are leaving after screwing it all up themselves.

I'd be hesitant to welcome them with open arms my friends. They have left a very sour note out here at FAT.

I have to disagree with your statement. F9 took a chance on FAT, but it didn't work out. The people of FAT did not use the service. You can't make money with 20-30% load factors. It seems the good people of FAT only have themselves to blame for that sour note they might be tasting.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 39):
that ORD is much more delay prone than DTW

Lets see DTW handle as many flights as ORD does, and who can do it better...

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 38):
Hehe, you and your blanket statements amuse me. LCC does not mean always lowest ticket costs. In fact, some random samplings stated sometimes UA was cheaper, sometimes F9. Over memorial day weekend DEN-SFO, F9 wins by $22 DEN-DTW tie. DEN-SMF UA wins by $14. Then again, statements like yours are why I would trust a.net as much as wikipedia. And on and on and on.

Sir, those would be UA MAINLINE flights. FWA (small little city in northeast Indiana) would be EXPRESS flights, which usually boosts the price of a ticket up. Hence the whole point of this thread because so many people in this city go to indy to catch their domestic flights because they are ungodly expensive out of Fort Wayne, for any carrier. International flights are usually pretty good.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 40):
I have to disagree with your statement. F9 took a chance on FAT, but it didn't work out. The people of FAT did not use the service. You can't make money with 20-30% load factors. It seems the good people of FAT only have themselves to blame for that sour note they might be tasting.

Somehow, for whatever the reason, Frontier missed in this market.

Jan 2007 was 38%LF for Frontier which is during the 2nd slowest month at FAT and was AFTER Frontier dropped to 1 flight a day. That cost them travellers who could not use that schedule.

Frontier saw load factors at FAT for about 5 or 6 months of 2006 between 80-90%. The rest of the months in 2006 were in the 65-75% range except for Jan 2006 which was 49% and Feb 2006 which was 54%.

So be careful when you say they had 20-30% loads at FAT, that is not correct. They had support at FAT but could not capitalize on it.

And in wake of their departure we are seeing additions to the schedule from other airlines. So it appears other airlines see the need for the 140 seats that Frontier used to offer.

USExpress is increasing their seats to PHX, going from 1 CR9 and 4 CRJs a day to 4 CR9s and 1 CRJ.
DLConn is adding a 4th daily CRJ to SLC.
UAX is adding a Sat only CRJ to DEN.
XJet is adding 4 ERJs a day.

So FAT is losing about 140 seats each day outbound on F9.

But other airlines are adding about 360 outbound seats a day, 160 of which are to the eastbound markets that F9 used to offer.

Sounds like the market is there at FAT but Frontier did not capture it.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:54 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 41):
Lets see DTW handle as many flights as ORD does, and who can do it better...

Luckily for passengers who chose to connect in DTW over ORD, DTW doesn't even try.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
nosedive
Posts: 2176
Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 2:18 pm

RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 41):
Sir, those would be UA MAINLINE flights. FWA (small little city in northeast Indiana) would be EXPRESS flights, which usually boosts the price of a ticket up. Hence the whole point of this thread because so many people in this city go to indy to catch their domestic flights because they are ungodly expensive out of Fort Wayne, for any carrier. International flights are usually pretty good.

Well aware where FWA is, thanks. You stated:

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 35):
Ok I bet you could ask ANYONE on this website and ask them if a FWA-DEN ticket would be cheaper on F9 or on UA and I know that YOU know which one of those would be cheaper.

Nothing about mainline/express in there. So don't get all in a huff when people tell you things.
Other examples around memorial day:
DEN-BNA F9 cheaper by half (F9 mainline, UA express, WN mainline but I didn't look at WN)
DEN-MEM tie (F9 mainline, UA express, NW mix)
DEN-OMA tie (both express, IIRC)
DEN-DAY F9 cheaper by 1/3 (both express, IIRC)
DEN-TUL UA cheaper by $10 (both express, IIRC)
DEN-OKC UA cheaper by $50 (both express, IIRC)
DEN-ELP UA cheaper by $40 (both express, IIRC)
DEN-ABQ tie (I think mix on UA and express on F9)

so... F9 always cheaper on regionals? think again
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 33):
Also, if F9 launches FWA, there's also the potential of passengers driving to FWA from SBN and TOL to catch F9 service to DEN.

You may get traffic from the Western Ohio counties but you're not going to get passengers driving from TOL. I say that because Frontier is already offering 4x daily to DTW and I know a few people who regularly utilize that service. If FWA gains this service, you're not going to steal any passengers from TOL as most all (90%+) Northwest Ohioans are already utilizing DTW, DAY, CLE, CMH, or FWA.

I hope FWA gets this service. They have the resources to lure F9 in ($$$ from tax payers) as they used some to increase their ORD and DFW frequencies with American...I honestly think this would be a good fit for them...heck could end up like DAY and be replaced with A318s.
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 45):
I honestly think this would be a good fit for them...heck could end up like DAY and be replaced with A318s.

FWA is in a great position geographically to become like DAY. Our facilities are state of the art, heck our runway is long enough for the space shuttle at 2.5miles. We are in the middle of ORD, DTW, IND, TOL, CMH, CVG, DAY. It seems like those airports suck the passengers out from around us. F9 would be incredibly smart service, and get back some of our lost passengers.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18412
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 42):
Somehow, for whatever the reason, Frontier missed in this market.

At the risk of hijacking the thread, I don"t think Frontier did "miss the market". I think they got exactly the market that is there.

While I was hopeful for FAT, the market on any route is finite and it was always optimistic to think that DEN-FAT could bear that much additional capacity year round.

So I'm puzzled by your thought that "the market is there". I see (your figures) that United is only adding an additional Saturday flight FAT-DEN. This suggests that FAT-DEN has all the capacity it can presently assimilate.

I can't think that anyone would fly FAT-DEN to connect to SLC.

???

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
georgebush
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:15 am

RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 47):
I can't think that anyone would fly FAT-DEN to connect to SLC

Unless your a nerd like us, sorry me; I'll speak for myself on this one!
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18412
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Frontier Coming To FWA!?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 48):
Unless your a nerd like us, sorry me; I'll speak for myself on this one!

Hmmm? I don't understand that, sorry. I was responding to FATFlyer.

???

mariner
aeternum nauta

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