rtfm
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Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:30 pm

Just picked this up on BBC News web-site. An EI baggage handler got left in the hold of a DUB-JFK flight and had to use his mobile phone to call for help. ATC stopped the flight before take-off. Should be an interesting investigation.....

Lucky guy - I should imagine that he would probably have survived the trip but would have been a bit cold not to mention a bit freaked out!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6574273.stm
 
AOMlover
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:46 pm

The very same thing happened on a Fedex flight between Paris and Vienna some weeks ago ! The two handlers got caught in the ATR cargo hold as the captain closed the door because it was beginning to rain. But they didn't manage to prevent the plane from taking off, and flew all the way down to Vienna. The flew back to Paris on an AF flight...
 
flipdewaf
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:47 pm

crikey! i would get very freaked out by that, he could have put the peoples clothes on when it got cold. would it be a lot noisier in there than in the cabin?

Fred
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SkyexRamper
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting Flipdewaf (Reply 2):
i would get very freaked out by that, he could have put the peoples clothes on when it got cold.

You'd have to have a lot of clothes on to even make a difference. If he was in an unheated section of the airplane, he would've been dead.

Quoted from article:
"The Aer Lingus Airbus 330, bound for New York, was taxi-ing for take-off on 28 December, 2005, when his phone call raised the alarm."

December 28th 2005!?!?! Is this a really slow year for the BBC!
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:39 am

I have heard of this happening from time to time. Although, every story I have heard ends with the plane being stopped before takeoff.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:53 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 4):
Although, every story I have heard ends with the plane being stopped before takeoff.

Well.....it was about 2 years go YX sent a ramper to PHL.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
Jawed
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:26 am

Wouldn't lack of oxygen be an even bigger problem than the cold temperature?
 
siggi757
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Fli

Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:27 am

The same thing happened in Iceland a few years ago. The baggage handler contemplated using his lighter to activate the fire extinguishing system in the 757 cargo hold to attract attention. Just as well the ground crew discovered the mistake and opened the hold before he executed his plan...and himself. If he had activated the system he would have suffocated as the fire extinguishing agent removes all oxygen in the hold.
 
BHD
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:39 am

I've heard of taking an extra person on holiday "in your suitcase" but this is just a step too far!!!
 Big grin  praise 

Woody
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:53 am

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 5):
Well.....it was about 2 years go YX sent a ramper to PHL.

Never heard that story...  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
graphic
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:03 am

If you crawled in under alot of baggage you could probably stay warm enough to live, but the biggest problem would be the lack of breathable air.
Demand Media fails at life
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:04 am

Quoting Jawed (Reply 6):
Wouldn't lack of oxygen be an even bigger problem than the cold temperature?

Likely the ramper was in the manual pit of the aircraft. Those pits are heated and pressurized because that's where animals are loaded for transport. He would have survived just fine as would little Fluffy and Fido.

Most likely this ramper is a jerk and/or really pissed off his coworkers and was being made to pay a lesson.....or refused to pay his union dues. Ah, the brotherhood of the ramp.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:11 am

Quoting Graphic (Reply 10):
but the biggest problem would be the lack of breathable air.

Nope, you'd freeze to death long before you ran out of useable oxygen if you were trapped anywhere but the heated bin area for animals.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
757223
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:31 am

Where is the manual pit usually located? How big is it?
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Bicoastal
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:46 am

At the rear of the aircraft behind the container compartments. When you spot at airports, you'll see a belt loader up to the manual pit of widebodies.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:16 am

In narrow bodies I think they're all in F1 (or the front bin on the right hand side if facing the door)
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USAJPNflyer
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Fli

Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:30 am

Manual pits are located in the very rear of the aircraft - right behind the rear container compartments.
A rough location would be the lower section of the tail (below the last set of cabin doors).
Manual pits can carry outsized cargo or other items that cannot otherwise be loaded into containers (e.g. live animals, items requiring special handling, human remains, etc.).
Gate-checked baggage and items such as strollers or wheelchairs are almost always loaded here so they can be retrieved quickly after arrival.
Sometimes if there is a lot of cargo in the container compartments, the manual pits can be used for baggage. In my afternoon work, I have sometimes experienced over 70 items unloaded from a B744 manual pit (and still room for the ramp service agent to move around and pluck some items from the very back of the tail!).

Having been inside the manual pits of B747/B767/B777 aircraft, I can say that there is more than enough room for one person to 'camp out' and sleep if forced to do so (even with some bags and cargo in there!).
 
QueenofDaSkies
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:33 am

Crazy story. If this isn't a reason for having your cell phone on you at all times, I don't know what is!
It's time to FLY!
 
concentriq
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:52 am

Might be a dumb question, but there is no other way out of "unpressureised unheated" portion of cargo hold? is there some sort of sealed door to the passenger compartment?

OR

if I were to start banging on the ceiling of the cargo hold, woudlnt someone hear me in the passenger compartment?
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jetdeltamsy
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:59 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 11):
Most likely this ramper is a jerk and/or really pissed off his coworkers and was being made to pay a lesson.....or refused to pay his union dues. Ah, the brotherhood

What on Earth are you talking about? How is that relevant?
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Aviacentre
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Fli

Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:10 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 19):
What on Earth are you talking about? How is that relevant?

Bicoastal is jokingly suggesting that the ramper's coworkers could have intentionally locked him in there as a way to get revenge.
Proud Graduate of UND Aerospace
 
EXMEMWIDGET
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:23 pm

Back in my Delta days, I worked with a guy who got locked in the rear cargo hold of a DC-9. He flew MEM-STL with no problems.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:35 pm

Few weeks ago, FX sent two handlers from CDG-VIE on a flight. Glad they were okay!  yes 
 
corey07850
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Fli

Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:41 pm

In a related story, the ramper was subsequently fired for violating FAR's and using his cell phone after the main cabin door was closed... Damn FAA
 
memphis
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:00 pm

we are not allowed to even have cell phones on our ramp, yet after we load a plane up. usually while the A/C is still in the blocks, our crew, about 12-14 rampers, MUST sign a sign-off sheet that shows that they we are indeed off the plane, in theory, if someone was missing, we could stop the push and start popping doors.
nocturnal
 
QXRamperMEII
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:30 pm

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 18):
if I were to start banging on the ceiling of the cargo hold, woudlnt someone hear me in the passenger compartment?

This happened to a QX ramper a few years back in an old F-28...the pits were short but very long along the length of the fuse...evidently this guy falls asleep, another ramper slams the door shut and the plane is pushed out. Now, this pit was an unpressurized pit, the ramp guy knows this and starts freaking out and banging on the overhead. The pax hear it and raise an alarm to the flight crew; they thought something was wrong mechanically and RTG. The ramper broke a few bones in his hands from having to bang so hard over the engine noise...
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:00 pm

Surely the holds are pressurised ?

Firstly any livestock carried as freight would not otherwise survive. Secondly a curved structure is relatively easy to pressurise, but to have the flat internal floor as the pressure bulkhead would involve far more metal.

I believe that the only unpressurised areas of the fuselage are the undercarriage wells, the nose radome and the tail to the rear of the pressure bulkhead.
 
planefixer
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:38 pm

The baggage hold IS pressurised....there is only a laminated floor panel between the pax cabin and cargo hold. Thats why the cargo doors have pressure seals.
As for cargo heating, if the pilot selected it to ON - as he would if carrying livestock, then he cargo hold would be as warm as the main pax cabin. On the A330, you can actually access the fwd cargo hold from the cockpit, via the avionic equipment bay under the cockpit floor. The doors are not pressurised as the entire fuselage from front to back bulkhead is the same pressure.
 
memphis
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:39 pm

also remember that (unless they left the lights on) it would be pitch black in there! On some A/C, one could find there way, maybe, to the lights, on other A/C, this switch is in a panel on the exterior portion of the plane.
nocturnal
 
OHLHD
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 22):
Few weeks ago, FX sent two handlers from CDG-VIE on a flight. Glad they were okay!

They were alright upon arrival but the funny thing was that the loaders locked them up again when they found them until the police came.
 
graphic
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:26 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 23):
In a related story, the ramper was subsequently fired for violating FAR's and using his cell phone after the main cabin door was closed... Damn FAA

Well since it was in Irish airspace on an Irish-registered aircraft, I highly doubt that the FAA gives a damn. And what FAR specifically mentions cell phones?
Demand Media fails at life
 
corey07850
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting Graphic (Reply 30):
And what FAR specifically mentions cell phones?

47 CFR 22.925 (directly)

14 CFR 91.21 (indirectly)

And there's an AC recommending that all operators ban cell phones and other transmitting devices, but I can't remember it ...

Quoting Graphic (Reply 30):
Well since it was in Irish airspace on an Irish-registered aircraft, I highly doubt that the FAA gives a damn.

Calm down, it was a joke
 
copter808
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 23):
In a related story, the ramper was subsequently fired for violating FAR's and using his cell phone after the main cabin door was closed.

Ya beat me to it!!
 
copter808
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting Memphis (Reply 24):
we are not allowed to even have cell phones on our ramp, yet after we load a plane up. usually while the A/C is still in the blocks, our crew, about 12-14 rampers, MUST sign a sign-off sheet that shows that they we are indeed off the plane, in theory, if someone was missing, we could stop the push and start popping doors.

Very good idea! I've always wondered why more carriers don't do this. My airline was lucky in that as far as I know, nobody was ever injured or killed by being locked in a bin. Probably just a matter of luck.

After watching some of the Asian rampers--they all line up as the airplane pushes back--I would think they probably have an informal accountability. If ya got 6 guys working the flight and only 5 line up at push, ya gotta find the missing one.

Problem with my carrier was we sometimes had so many slackers, you never knew where to start looking for the missing man!
 
graphic
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:13 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 31):

47 CFR 22.925 (directly)

FAR's are 14 CFR aren't they?

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 31):
14 CFR 91.21 (indirectly)

Only prohibits certain electronics under IFR, and because cell phones aren't on the list, if the P.I.C. determines them to not cause interference to the systems, he can allow them to be used in flight.

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 31):

Calm down, it was a joke

I know, I got it, don't worry about it  Wink
Demand Media fails at life
 
N276AASTT
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 11):
Likely the ramper was in the manual pit of the aircraft. Those pits are heated and pressurized because that's where animals are loaded for transport. He would have survived just fine as would little Fluffy and Fido.



Quoting Planefixer (Reply 27):
if the pilot selected it to ON - as he would if carrying livestock

The environmental controls for the bulk cargo area are with the pilots. Depending on the type of aircraft, these controls are usually (OFF) -IF AND ONLY IF- the pilots receive their cargo load plans from the ramp crew stating that there are NO animals and such loaded in the area. There is no need to pressurize and temp control the area if there is no reason to. Having said that, if there were no animals in the area where the ramper got trapped, then he narrowly escaped death. Not enough O2 10,000 ft and above and the temp would drop tremendously, very quickly as the aircraft ascended.
Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
 
khenleydia
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:36 pm

They should start putting IFE in the cargo hold. Or they could put some small little "panic" buttons that are only active when the cargo doors are closed.

Just a thought.

KhenleyDIA
Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting N276AASTT (Reply 35):
The environmental controls for the bulk cargo area are with the pilots. Depending on the type of aircraft, these controls are usually (OFF) -IF AND ONLY IF- the pilots receive their cargo load plans from the ramp crew stating that there are NO animals and such loaded in the area. There is no need to pressurize and temp control the area if there is no reason to. Having said that, if there were no animals in the area where the ramper got trapped, then he narrowly escaped death. Not enough O2 10,000 ft and above and the temp would drop tremendously, very quickly as the aircraft ascended.

It has already been categorically stated that baggage holds are pressurised. If they were not, the cabin floor would collapse.

The hold temperature is a factor, but oxygen isn't
 
airtechy
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:49 pm

A friend who is a pilot for a passenger airline says that they refer to the cargo bin heating switch as the "dead dog switch". Big grin  Big grin

Jim
 
sv2008
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:12 pm

This might be a stupid question(s), but if the hold isn't heated at all, doesn't that mean the luggage will get cold? What happens to all those electronics and batteries at -60'c?

Since the pressure must come from the same place as the cabin air, the air must be bleed off to the hold before going into the air conditioning system then?

Do they really save much money doing this? They'd be a large temperature difference between the non-heated hold and heated cabin.....this must be well insulated then? You'd expect in that case the floor of the aircraft would feel cold on a long flight.

Seems a bit pointless, it wouldn't cost much to heat the area, especially as the air wouldn't need to changed as frequently.
 
astuteman
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:14 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 37):
It has already been categorically stated that baggage holds are pressurised. If they were not, the cabin floor would collapse.

I would have expected the whole fuselage (fwd of the pressure bulkhead) to be pressurised  checkmark 

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 39):
Since the pressure must come from the same place as the cabin air, the air must be bleed off to the hold before going into the air conditioning system then?

I would have expected this, too...  Smile
I'm no expert, But I'd always understood that the whole of the fuselage skin was insulated between the frames.....
Certainly my expensive bottles of wine have never been frozen.........  Wink

Regards
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:18 pm

This happened in 2005, for some reason the exact same incident is been reported again this week in news papers here, I assume the investigation was completed in the last week or something, rumor has it the dude fell asleep and the loader driver never checked the hold to see if anyone was left in there
John Hancock
 
belizexp
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:58 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 14):
At the rear of the aircraft behind the container compartments. When you spot at airports, you'll see a belt loader up to the manual pit of widebodies.

I know it as the Bulk bin....
Belize my home sweet home...
 
CPH757
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:19 pm

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 39):
This might be a stupid question(s), but if the hold isn't heated at all, doesn't that mean the luggage will get cold? What happens to all those electronics and batteries at -60'c?

Exactly my thought all the way through. People also bring liquids in their luggage, toiletries etc. A bottle of water would blow if freezing, wetting all the luggage contents when landing. And that's is certainly never a problem?

Besides that, wouldn't the lag of pressure in the cargo hold make some things exploding? If i bring a bag of something with a lot of air, it would blow.

So, I would believe that someone could survive down there for a transatlantic flight, no matter if animals are on board or not.
Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:30 pm

I was on a KLM flight from LHR to AMS about 2 years ago when just before departure the Baggage handler fell out of the hold onto the tarmac. The flight was delayed about 45 minutes whilst an Ambulance came to attend to him.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
iairallie
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting CPH757 (Reply 43):
Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 39):
This might be a stupid question(s), but if the hold isn't heated at all, doesn't that mean the luggage will get cold? What happens to all those electronics and batteries at -60'c?

Exactly my thought all the way through. People also bring liquids in their luggage, toiletries etc. A bottle of water would blow if freezing, wetting all the luggage contents when landing. And that's is certainly never a problem?

When I worked on the ramp for B6 it wasn't unusual to see frost in the cargo hold. Sometimes a bag would freeze to the cargo hold floor. Liquids often do leak in bags due to temperature changest etc. that's why I pack mine in a plastic toiletry kit. Frequently you could also smell bags that just reeked of cologne or perfume. Either the bag was poorly packed and the bottle smashed or you had a leak.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
sv2008
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:45 am

Still you'd expect your stuff to be frozen solid when you pick it up, but it never is.

And I've never had any stuff damaged (yet) by that extreme cold.
 
concentriq
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:30 am

All these make complete sense... Is there anyone who can tell for certain:

1. Are cargo holds pressurized?
2. Are cargo holds heated?
3. Can one potentially go from passenger cabin to cargo hold and back? is there a "trap door" between the floors?
4. And #1 and #2 will lead to: Can one potentially survive the transatlantic flight in cargo hold?
5. If #3 is true, then can captain allow a person who for whatever reason is in the cargo hold to enter the passenger cabin, or an emergency landing has to be performed?
Mobilis In Mobili
 
pygmalion
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 47):
All these make complete sense... Is there anyone who can tell for certain:

1. Are cargo holds pressurized?

ALL Boeing Aircraft have pressurized cargo holds.. ALL of them and ALL the holds are pressurized, no exception

2. Are cargo holds heated?

Not necessarily but the aircraft insulation is between the hold and the outside of the aircraft. The cabin air circulates around the hold. The only thing separating the hold from the cabin air is a 4 ply layer of fiberglass cloth as a fire barrier.

3. Can one potentially go from passenger cabin to cargo hold and back? is there a "trap door" between the floors?

On Boeing aircraft there is a hatch going from cabin to the electrical equipment bay, on the widebodies there is a open-able panel between the EE bay and the cargo bay. We carry spare equipment racks in the cargo bay during flight test and it is common to go down and swap boxes in the racks during flight. During a normal revenue flight there would be cargo containers blocking that door at least some, if not most, of the time.

4. And #1 and #2 will lead to: Can one potentially survive the transatlantic flight in cargo hold?

YES. You might be cold but would most likely survive. It probably gets down to 40-50 degrees F in the cargo bays. So I guess you might get hypothermia but you would not turn into a Popsicle. Remember the cabin air circulates around the cargo bay walls. Also the water tanks and the toilet tanks are next to the cargo bays... they are not heated and they don't freeze. Cargo heat, besides being good for animals is also used for carrying flowers etc.

5. If #3 is true, then can captain allow a person who for whatever reason is in the cargo hold to enter the passenger cabin, or an emergency landing has to be performed?

There is no access from the aft cargo or bulk cargo bays on a wide body to the cabin. It might be possible from the forward cargo... but most likely the cargo containers would block access to the equipment bay.

[Edited 2007-04-23 21:59:44]
 
sv2008
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RE: Baggage Handler Left In Hold Of EI DUB-JFK Flight!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 48):
Not necessarily but the aircraft insulation is between the hold and the outside of the aircraft. The cabin air circulates around the hold. The only thing separating the hold from the cabin air is a 4 ply layer of fiberglass cloth as a fire barrier.

Its essentially the same thing isn't? because the difference won't be that great. It might get a bit colder is circulation is poor, but not much.

I always thought this might have been a myth.

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