LHStarAlliance
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Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:53 pm

Hello ,

Article in German :

http://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/malaysische-fly-asian_aid_54178.html

Fly Asian Xpress orders 10 330-300

delivery 2008 , 2 billion euros ,

Edits : Specifications

[Edited 2007-04-21 13:55:04]

[Edited 2007-04-21 13:56:38]
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EI321
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:00 pm

Look for a future A350 order here.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:10 pm

Last I heard, they were going to order 15 A333s; now it's 10, with 5 options.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
EI321
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:28 pm

So did I, although €2b will buy you more than 10 A330s, even at list.
 
CV580Freak
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:19 pm

Whats the range on a A333 ???
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w3ndytj4n
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:46 pm

Wow, It looks like AirAsia group (or Tony Fernandez more precisely) is goin towards Airbus. Congratulations...

w3ndy
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EI321
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 4):
Whats the range on a A333 ???

Realistic range would be about 5000 miles.
 
CV580Freak
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:03 pm

The Airbus website quotes the range of A333 with full pax load of 10,500 kms. This would not allow direct KUL/LHR flights (for instance). Is this why they are looking at stopping off in ME, ie BAH ???. Will a one-stop flight affect the loads with people prefering non-stop or will the low prices be the factor ???
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
levent
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:27 pm

I think AirAsia will have full loads on their flights. What most people ultimately look at, are the prices. Many people choose to travel via the Middle East anyway because the ME airlines offer lower fares than the airlines flying non-stop. If AirAsia would make a stop there, it wouldn't be any different, and the pax would actually not have to change planes either.

What I wonder is, whether there will be a crew change in the ME if a stop is made there.
 
EI321
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:31 pm

If this goes well, perhaps they will be potential operators of the A380. A high density A380 would have very low CASM.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:27 am

It's not surprising considering the number of Airbus airplanes they have. Good for Airbus!
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 10):
Good for Airbus!

Yea the 330 is really selling well ! Good for them !

Konstantin
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easyas321
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 7):
The Airbus website quotes the range of A333 with full pax load of 10,500 kms. This would not allow direct KUL/LHR flights (for instance). Is this why they are looking at stopping off in ME, ie BAH ???. Will a one-stop flight affect the loads with people prefering non-stop or will the low prices be the factor ???

What's the absolute maximum seating on a 333 ? TS have 362 in 2 classes on their 332's, with 3-3-3 seating in Y.

Am sure they'll want max no matter what seating pitch. Will it be 2 classes or 1?
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:48 am

The A330 is proving itself to be a very versatile and useful aircraft for a number of different missions. It is interesting how since time has gone by the A330 has completely come into its own over 777-200A 767-400ER and 777-200ER/300ER have come into their own over A340.

I think Fly Asian Xpress will give us a new record for how many people can be shoe-horned into an A330... interesting they went with the A330-300 (with its lower CASM) vs the A330-200 which could reach Europe non-stop.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
behramjee
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:11 am

so this order by them effectively rules out nonstop KUL-Europe flights which means that Sharjah, UAE will be the enroute stop to EU.
 
levent
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 14):
so this order by them effectively rules out nonstop KUL-Europe flights which means that Sharjah, UAE will be the enroute stop to EU.

This is not definite yet, it is? Another option as en-route stop mentioned was Amritsar.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 10):
It's not surprising considering the number of Airbus airplanes they have. Good for Airbus!

..this was as obvious as anything.. else 

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 11):
Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 10):
Good for Airbus!

Yea the 330 is really selling well ! Good for them !

Konstantin

 checkmark ..which just goes to show that even an "older generation plane" will sell if the price is right....

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 13):

I think Fly Asian Xpress will give us a new record for how many people can be shoe-horned into an A330... interesting they went with the A330-300 (with its lower CASM) vs the A330-200 which could reach Europe non-stop.

 checkmark ...
"Up the Irons!"
 
A342
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:13 pm

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 12):
What's the absolute maximum seating on a 333 ? TS have 362 in 2 classes on their 332's, with 3-3-3 seating in Y.

Am sure they'll want max no matter what seating pitch. Will it be 2 classes or 1?

IIRC the max. one class seating is 440.  crowded 

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 13):
interesting they went with the A330-300 (with its lower CASM) vs the A330-200 which could reach Europe non-stop.

With a meaningful cargo payload, the A332 couldn't fly the route non-stop. So IMO they made the right choice, flying one-stop with the A333 and carrying the highest possible payload.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
easyas321
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:56 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 17):
IIRC the max. one class seating is 440.

Wow 440 !!!

What would the seat pitch be 28 inches in 3-3-3 config.?
 
manni
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:14 pm

It is now confirmed by Mr. Fernandes. Initially 10 aircraft with 5 options, but they plan to have 25 A330s over the next 5 years. Air Asia X will be renamed into Air Asia longhaul. First flight is planned for september 2007 with leased aircraft.

http://au.biz.yahoo.com/070423/33/17bt3.html

"Over the next five years we hope to have 25 (A330-300) aircraft," said Fernandes, who also announced a re-branding of the carrier.

"AirAsia X will go and will now be known as AirAsia long-haul," he said.
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slz396
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:26 pm

Good to see the A330 win another new customer and this time for the A330-300 version!

Interesting to see the first delivery is planned already (end of) next year.
Probably a consequence of the increased production on the A330/A340 line as recently announced by Airbus.

As a side note:
Looking at the aggressive approach Mr Fernandes takes towards expanding his airline(s), his pioneering spirit when it comes to revolutionizing aviation and his satisfaction with Airbus, I dare to say that if this long haul low cost concept really works as planned, Air Asia Longhaul can be tipped as a potential future buyer of the A380 by the end of the decade!

[Edited 2007-04-23 10:30:25]
 
HUYfan
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:45 pm

Manchester is looking like the first destination in Europe.

Regards

Mike
 
jacobin777
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Option

Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:48 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):
As a side note:
Looking at the aggressive approach Mr Fernandes takes towards expanding his airline(s), his pioneering spirit when it comes to revolutionizing aviation and his satisfaction with Airbus, I dare to say that if this long haul low cost concept really works as planned, Air Asia Longhaul can be tipped as a potential future buyer of the A380 by the end of the decade!

..that might not be correct friend...the A333/B772 might be "the sweet spot" for this kind of travel...the B747 and A380 might be a bit "too much" airplane.....we'll know in a few years who's right and who's wrong... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
easyas321
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:49 pm

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 21):
Manchester is looking like the first destination in Europe.

Hope OZ is on the radar !!!

Many Australians watching the dollars fly Royal Brunei to Europe (2 stops) & even Emirates out of BNE is 2 stops to Europe at present anyway, so backpacker market wouldn't give a rats, if 2 stops to Manchester or where ever in Europe,as long as cheap & they will have new aircraft. Might partially fill the roll that was envisaged for backpackersXpress a few years ago.
 
slz396
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:15 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
that might not be correct friend...the A333/B772 might be "the sweet spot" for this kind of travel...the B747 and A380 might be a bit "too much" airplane.....we'll know in a few years who's right and who's wrong...

Knowing the potential volume of this route and the fact nothing will beat the CASM of a high density seating A380-800, it isn't likely a successful and agressive low cost airline serving the kangaroo market would not be tempted into flying A380s on this route at simply unbeatable prices at some point...

If I were Airbus, once Air Asia Longhaul is a well established player on the market, I'd let them use an A380 for a year or so so they could test the water...
 
jacobin777
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Option

Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:21 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 24):
Knowing the potential volume of this route and the fact nothing will beat the CASM of a high density seating A380-800, it isn't likely a successful and agressive low cost airline serving the kangaroo market would not be tempted into flying A380s on this route at simply unbeatable prices at some point...

If I were Airbus, once Air Asia Longhaul is a well established player on the market, I'd let them use an A380 for a year or so so they could test the water...

..You are making a rather large assumption there...there is a phenomena called "overcapacity" also... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
slz396
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:28 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 25):
You are making a rather large assumption there...there is a phenomena called "overcapacity" also...

I am assuming a large bunch of the economy pax on legacy carriers who travel daily on the kangaroo route wouldn't mind seeing their ticket price slashed by half (or more) through flying a LCC.

Admitting to that principle alone, you'd understand the overcapacity you warn for may be caused by the A380, but it would exist mostly in the empty rear ends of most of the much higher CASM penalized A340s, 777s and 747s flying on the route today ...

But don't worry: there is still a HUGE untapped market left in the number of Brits and Australians who'd have visited each others countries if it wasn't so bloody expensive to travel to the other side of the globe...

I've said it before and I stand by it: the kangaroo route may be an ultra long haul route, it has the potential pax volume to become just as important as any US domestic or intra-European flight between 2 big cities, provided the prices are considerably brought down.
 
Thorben
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:34 pm

Very strange that they went with the A330-300. That is hardly the plane to fly to Europe with, I don't think MS has done that often. The nominal range is more than 10,000km, but I think with a reasonable load, it would be less. Is it possible that they'll use it on routes in Southeast Asia, that are too long for the A320, also on routes to Australia, Japan, China, Middle East and Eastern Africa, but not on routes to Europe?

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):
Air Asia Longhaul can be tipped as a potential future buyer of the A380 by the end of the decade!

And fly them where? Honestly, let them try the A330 first, if they succeed, they could go for bigger planes on longer routes. Malaysia has only 25 million inhabitants, Kuala Lumpur has only 1.5 million, and despite the Petronas Towers, it is still a very poor country with a GDP of $ 4,960 per head. (Even Germany has almost 35,000.) Makes A380s look doubtful to me.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
slz396
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 27):
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):
Air Asia Longhaul can be tipped as a potential future buyer of the A380 by the end of the decade!

And fly them where? Honestly, let them try the A330 first, if they succeed, they could go for bigger planes on longer routes. Malaysia has only 25 million inhabitants, Kuala Lumpur has only 1.5 million. Makes A380s look doubtful to me.

In my view, Air Asia Long haul will NOT be targeting Malaysians, but rather Europeans and Australians flying on the Europe-Australia route, so the size or the economic wealth of the country where the hub is based is irrelevant for as long at it is a politically stable place (which it is).

BTW- how do the numbers for the UAE compare to those of Malaysia? Strangely enough, there are about 45 A380s on order from that country...
 
9MMAR
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 27):
it is still a very poor country with a GDP of $ 4,960 per head.

Wrong. Malaysia is not a 'very poor country'. Have you been to our country before?

Taken from CIA's factbook:
"Malaysia, a middle-income country, transformed itself from 1971 through the late 1990s from a producer of raw materials into an emerging multi-sector economy."

Our GDP is $ 12,700, no. 59 out of 194 countries in the world.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Option

Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:29 pm

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 29):
Wrong. Malaysia is not a 'very poor country'. Have you been to our country before?

Taken from CIA's factbook:
"Malaysia, a middle-income country, transformed itself from 1971 through the late 1990s from a producer of raw materials into an emerging multi-sector economy."

Our GDP is $ 12,700, no. 59 out of 194 countries in the world.

Yea that´s right , Thailand , Indonesia , etc are far poorer then Malaysia ...
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levent
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:44 pm

Malaysia is fast becoming the next key player in South East Asia, eager to compete with Singapore. They are way ahead of other countries such as Thailand and Vietnam. KLIA was a major step in that process. AirAsia was another. And AirAsia Longhaul will play a role in continuing that success. This new airline is a great achievement for Malaysia and a big boost for travel to and from SE Asia. I for one wish them all the success in the world.
 
Thorben
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
In my view, Air Asia Long haul will NOT be targeting Malaysians, but rather Europeans and Australians flying on the Europe-Australia route, so the size or the economic wealth of the country where the hub is based is irrelevant for as long at it is a politically stable place (which it is).

Can that be successful? With all the competition from EK, QR, EY, TG, MH, SQ, CX and all those others?

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 28):
BTW- how do the numbers for the UAE compare to those of Malaysia? Strangely enough, there are about 45 A380s on order from that country...

UAE has $23,770. But EK is a different story, their A380s are really 95% for hub-traffic. And that not only between Europe and Australia.

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 29):
Wrong. Malaysia is not a 'very poor country'. Have you been to our country before?

No I haven't.

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 29):
Taken from CIA's factbook:
"Malaysia, a middle-income country, transformed itself from 1971 through the late 1990s from a producer of raw materials into an emerging multi-sector economy."

Our GDP is $ 12,700, no. 59 out of 194 countries in the world.

I use the table of 2005 from the world bank.
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GNIPC.pdf

Rank 82 with $4,960/capita

I don't want to start a discussion about being "very poor" or "rather poor" etc., but it looks to me like A380s will be hard to fill, both on O&D and hub-traffic.

Quoting Lhstaralliance (Reply 30):
Yea that´s right , Thailand , Indonesia , etc are far poorer then Malaysia ...

Poorer per capita, but those are way bigger countries, Thailand has 65 million people, Indonesia more than 200 million. In addition to that, Thailand has a lot of tourism and a very big city with Bangkok (around 6.3 million people).
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
HUYfan
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:04 pm

Thorben, I don't think you really know what you're talking about, sorry.

Regards

Mike
 
levent
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 32):
Poorer per capita, but those are way bigger countries, Thailand has 65 million people, Indonesia more than 200 million. In addition to that, Thailand has a lot of tourism and a very big city with Bangkok (around 6.3 million people).

While Thailand has 65 million inhabitants, the vast majority of them is very poor and will never be able to travel by airplane. I predict that tourism to Thailand will fall in the near future in favour of Malaysia. One of the reasons is the stricter visa rules the Thai government has implemented recently, while Malaysia is actively promoting tourism. Thailand is fast becoming overcrowded and overdeveloped and tourists are starting to avoid certain areas now.

On top of that, we all know about the problems surrounding Suvarnabhumi Airport. The new aviation hub for SE Asia... yeah, right. KLIA however has plenty space for more flights and offers ultramodern facilities.
 
LurveBus
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting Levent (Reply 34):
While Thailand has 65 million inhabitants, the vast majority of them is very poor and will never be able to travel by airplane. I predict that tourism to Thailand will fall in the near future in favour of Malaysia. One of the reasons is the stricter visa rules the Thai government has implemented recently, while Malaysia is actively promoting tourism. Thailand is fast becoming overcrowded and overdeveloped and tourists are starting to avoid certain areas now.

On top of that, we all know about the problems surrounding Suvarnabhumi Airport. The new aviation hub for SE Asia... yeah, right. KLIA however has plenty space for more flights and offers ultramodern facilities.

I somehow don't see that happening. Nothing can dispute the fact that Bangkok is the busiest hub in Southeast Asia, even busier than Singapore. The KLIA has existed for almost a decade, and yet that sleek airport with beautiful architecture and parallel runways couldn't muster up the same numbers as the aging Don Muang. And on the tourism side, Thailand has marketed itself very well. Bangkok is a recognizable name throughout the world, compared to KL.

Anyway, back to FAX (or FAL), I'm a little puzzled as to why they didn't order a 772ER, as that would've been able to make KUL-LHR nonstop, but I guess that if they're making a pit stop in the Middle East, they could tap into the vast amounts of Indonesian and Filipino workers who might be interested in rock-bottom fares, even if there is an awkward transfer in KUL. After all, Air Asia does have a very extensive network in Indonesia and they do fly to Manila's version of STN. Also, the majority of the workers in Dubai reside in Sharjah, as the cost of living is cheaper than Dubai.

We'll see what happens. Tony Fernandes is definitely taking a risk, but no guts, no glory, eh?
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
..which just goes to show that even an "older generation plane" will sell if the price is right....

Well, I think availability on a rather short term (e.g. before 2010) has more to do with this than prices. Also operating A320's can make a transfer from one type to the other a little easier.

Cheers!  wave 
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
jacobin777
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 26):
I am assuming a large bunch of the economy pax on legacy carriers who travel daily on the kangaroo route wouldn't mind seeing their ticket price slashed by half (or more) through flying a LCC.

.....like I said...a big assumption.....

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 26):
Admitting to that principle alone, you'd understand the overcapacity you warn for may be caused by the A380, but it would exist mostly in the empty rear ends of most of the much higher CASM penalized A340s, 777s and 747s flying on the route today ...

..you haven't added the EY's and QR's of the world...who wil certainly be adding the A380 to the Kangaroo Route....

....and where do you think EK will be sending some of those A380's? Certainly on the Kangaroo Route..and if Fernandez & Co do decide to go with the A380 on the "Roo' Route"..don't expect a carrier certainly like EK to sit around and do nothing.... no ...

They have already stated they might want to try and "Emirates Express" on the Roo Route with the A380....CASM good or not, yields are going to get killed....not to mention, fleet utilisation is horrible on such a long route.....

as I've been saying...lets see what the next few years brings in terms of "over capacity".....

Cheers....
"Up the Irons!"
 
A342
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 18):
What would the seat pitch be 28 inches in 3-3-3 config.?

Yes, something like that. Maybe the pitch is 29 inches, but definitely 3-3-3 config.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Fly Asian Xpress Orders 10 A330-300 - 5 Options

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 36):
Well, I think availability on a rather short term (e.g. before 2010) has more to do with this than prices. Also operating A320's can make a transfer from one type to the other a little easier.

Cheers!  wave 

I would think that (along with price) would play a big part... Wink
"Up the Irons!"