Leskova
Topic Author
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:05 am

... with immediate effect - I'm seriously surprised it actually took this long...

Link (in German): http://www.aero.de/news.php?varnewsid=3316

[Edited 2007-04-21 19:06:38]
Smile - it confuses people!
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:33 am

On their website, MXP is indicated. Do they still fly there? Does BRA have any other international routes or do they plan other destinations where they operate the 767 to?
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:54 pm

Funny. This flight begins 2x weekly on Wednesdays and Saturdays.
After a good beginning they face some problems with their high use of 763 (they keep just 2 birds, but only one is able to fly GIG-CGN non-stop), they face huge delays and cancellations loosing credibility. After that they decided to run just a weekly flight (loosing more credibility) and on the last weeks they decided to fly CGN-GRU-GIG and GRU-GIG-CGN, and even this way, loads were terrible.

BRA is not a famous and reliable airline in Brazil, they do not keep network that allow them to feed a flight and with several delays and cancellations they allow the operator to "break" the agreement. Without a strong operator, no virtual network, bad reputation, delays, possible cancellations, no one can keep a profitable flight.

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 1):
On their website, MXP is indicated. Do they still fly there? Does BRA have any other international routes or do they plan other destinations where they operate the 767 to?

With only two 763 nowadays (one of them in fact a 767-300 converted to ER) and only one really able to fly non stop MXP, they will fly shortly 2 weekly flights to MXP, but as CGN, they are not a reliable airline for most travellers so it's easy to see Tam with 21 weekly flights to MXP in the future than see 2 BRA flights !

BRA is well known in Brazil as an airline that change in a regular basis their time schedule, cancel flights, keep some huge delays and have very uncomfortable planes !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Summa767
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RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:22 pm

Felippe, did BRA not have one 763 and one 762?
I read that BRA and OceanAir were in talks about codesharing. I wonder if a more substancial arrangement would be more suitable, combining their domestic networks, and making use of the 767s for a more robust international operation.

Talking of which, what's happening to OA 767s. One of them has been painted for a while now, but has not yet been delivered. Nor are there specific dates for start of operations with them anywhere..
 
tommybp251b
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:21 am

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:41 am

Hi Guys!

That's indeed sad for CGN. Will there be a potential sucessor for this route. What about LT from DUS? Or what about TAM?

On a side note: When is Oasis Hongkong coming?


Best Regards. Tom
Tom from Cologne
 
jog
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:40 am

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 5):
Or what about TAM?

TAM is focusing on high yielding routes that also have a strong business demand. Thus, I cannot imagine that they would do a weekly or twice-Weekly CGN flight mainly aiming at Rio tourists. They also do charters with their A319/320 fleets in South America during off-peak hours, but I guess their long-haul fleet is currently far too busy for this.

Instead TAM is looking on returning to FRA which might happen by the end of this year. They always say that this depends on finding a local partner.
 
PPVRA
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RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 3):
I read that BRA and OceanAir were in talks about codesharing. I wonder if a more substancial arrangement would be more suitable, combining their domestic networks, and making use of the 767s for a more robust international operation.

BRA, OceanAir, and Webjet (anyone else?) are planning an alliance called Tropical Alliance. Varig was also supposed to join until GOL bought them (which was a big hit for Tropical Alliance).
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 3):
Talking of which, what's happening to OA 767s. One of them has been painted for a while now, but has not yet been delivered. Nor are there specific dates for start of operations with them anywhere..

The first one is at GIG, waiting for the first international flights. The problem is that, lack of experience that allows ETOPS (and they focus to fly first to LAD and LOS), and also it's not easy to set up an international flight (imagine the first one).. base, airport approval, local sales and support team, maintenance, catering... all need to be adjusted previously to include the flights on the website, and it seems Ocean Air is facing some hard time to do this.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6):
BRA, OceanAir, and Webjet (anyone else?)

I heard rumors about Rico from MAO also.

Quoting Jog (Reply 5):
Instead TAM is looking on returning to FRA which might happen by the end of this year. They always say that this depends on finding a local partner.

I believe they will return to FRA and they are trying to find some birds... in Brazil there are rumors about 2 A345 and they could be used on this route IMO.


Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
dellatorre
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6):
BRA, OceanAir, and Webjet (anyone else?) are planning an alliance called Tropical Alliance. Varig was also supposed to join until GOL bought them (which was a big hit for Tropical Alliance).

Honestly I don't think this is going anywhere!!! Even this name Tropical alliance. Sounds too charter!!! OceanAir has to worry about building a strong route network in Brazil before going into any alliance, specially with BRA. Why don't they just simply buy BRA instead. They could use some bigger planes than those MK-28s (F-100).
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:38 am

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 8):
They could use some bigger planes than those MK-28s (F-100).

Well, from what I've learned from our Brazilian members (LipeGIG, PPVRA for example) they have 14 Fokker 100s (in addition to E-120s and Fokker 50s) now with more to come, regarding additional capacity the initial plan was for 4 Boeing 767-300/ERs and 2 757-300s (yes -300s) to join, so far only 1 763 has arrived.

I wouldn't rule out them getting a piece of the Avianca order  crossfingers 
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:43 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 10):

I should say: 100% perfect ! (concerning to Ocean Air fleet and expansion plans)

Felipe

[Edited 2007-04-24 03:49:16]
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Avianca
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:45 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 10):
I wouldn't rule out them getting a piece of the Avianca order

isnt it confirmed that from the 10 x 787, only 7 will go to AV and the other 3 to Brazil?
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 12):
isnt it confirmed that from the 10 x 787, only 7 will go to AV and the other 3 to Brazil?

Yes, but Ocean Air mention that they will try to get more 1 or 2 from AV also.


Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Avianca
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:53 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
Yes, but Ocean Air mention that they will try to get more 1 or 2 from AV also.

well if its from the 10 stock that Avianca ordered I have to say it didnt looks good for them, I would even hope that all 10 will go to AV only...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Summa767
Posts: 1751
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:13 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 13):
well if its from the 10 stock that Avianca ordered I have to say it didnt looks good for them, I would even hope that all 10 will go to AV only...

I agree that for AV, even 7 only covers their 7 current 767s.. OK, some A330s are probably coming as well, but maybe just 3 or maximum 5, and they will have to replace some 757 routes too. However, the order for 787s include *10* options, that AV/OC will have to decide on *next year*. I hope and trust that they exercise them all, as there is excellent growth potential in the whole of LatAm.

I am slightly concerned about OceanAir's international operation. I understand that it is a complex matter, but the burocratic restrictions on destinations, the fact that Angonal authorities have not even heard about an application for a route. And now this ETOPS thing? Do the pilots themselves have to have the experience in such operations before or is it the airline? Surely they can get some pilots already experienced. Or have some as intructors, whilst the experienced is gained..
I also heard that OceanAir were in talks with EuroAtlantic of Portugal to operate some of OceanAir's services..
We'll have to wait and see..
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: BRA Axes GIG-CGN

Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
I should say: 100% perfect ! (concerning to Ocean Air fleet and expansion plans)

 sly  It was largely made possible due to members such as yourself, you should feel special  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 14):

I am slightly concerned about OceanAir's international operation. I understand that it is a complex matter, but the burocratic restrictions on destinations, the fact that Angonal authorities have not even heard about an application for a route. And now this ETOPS thing? Do the pilots themselves have to have the experience in such operations before or is it the airline? Surely they can get some pilots already experienced. Or have some as intructors, whilst the experienced is gained..

Yes, Angola is very reluctant to give route authorities (or civilized frequencies for that matter). I think if they ever get flying to Luanda it will be profitable as there is strong ties between Angola and Brasil (from Portuguese Ties, Oil, Construction to Agriculture industries). Back in the colonial days Angola and Brasil were the too most profitable and important Portuguese colonies. Angola possessed the fastest growing economy for 2006 and will soon export 2 million barrels of oil a day (Same as Kuwait)

 twocents 
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/

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