gilesdavies
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BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:46 pm

Hi Guys

I need your assistance here??? I have tried to do a search and cannot see it anywhere on the web or on a.net...

I have it in my head that I read a couple of weeks ago, that BMI will be launching an LHR-CLT service. In line with them taking advantange of the new Open Skies agreement bought in between the US and Europe.

If they are going to offer this service I am viewing it from a couple of sides:

(i) - Is it wise for a fellow Star Alliance member to take on direct competiiton, as US Airways have been operating CLT-LGW for years?

(ii) - Is the market big enough for two A330's operating daily between Charlotte and London?

(iii) - Would US Airways allow codeshare access for onwards connections from CLT?

(iv) - BMI would also be going in direct competion to Lufthansa as well, as passengers from the CLT area already have access to numerous onward European connections through MUC and FRA. (BMI cannot match the number or European destinations compared to LH)

(v) - Another way of lookng at this is that US Airways may surrender their LGW-CLT service and allow BMI the rights to operate the flight. This would allow US Airways to free up a much needed A330 to fly another long haul route to Europe (Maybe PHX-FRA?).
 
MAH4546
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:49 pm

They are not launching Charlotte-Heathrow. When Open Skies details were first released, a bmi official was quoted as saying they could now look at flying to some new US cities, and Charlotte was randomly mentioned. But that's it - it was randomly mentioned - most likely because it is a Star hub. BMI isn't coming to Charlotte.
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LTU932
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:47 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Another way of lookng at this is that US Airways may surrender their LGW-CLT service and allow BMI the rights to operate the flight. This would allow US Airways to free up a much needed A330 to fly another long haul route to Europe (Maybe PHX-FRA?).

Even if US would do such a move, an A333 would have problems operating PHX-FRA due to hot and somewhat high PHX.
 
HUYfan
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:46 pm

I think it would make sense as a potential route for bmi from Heathrow, enabling a 3 way BD/UA/US codeshare.

Regards

Mike
 
N1120A
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:54 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 2):

Even if US would do such a move, an A333 would have problems operating PHX-FRA due to hot and somewhat high PHX.

Problems? It would be damn near impossible. LH had issues operating the Condor 763ERs, which have longer range than the US any A333. That route won't open till they get the A332, A350 or 787.
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StarGoldLHR
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:36 pm

No Way.

BMI will only fly to major US cities, they are too small to fly to minor US destinations.

For BMI and open skies.. I would expect:

LHR-NYC daily
LHR-MIA/BOS/LAS/ORD divided by 7.

BMI wont do any UA or US hub just for the sake of competition, these will be code shares. (IAD/DEN/ORD/SFO/LAX)

At the end of the day BMI doesnt have enough planes and little access to get more before next year.

Even this will mean the end of BMI's Caribbean and Middle east adventures... Maybe Riyadh could continue if the A321 can make it.
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HUYfan
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:36 pm

Actually, the route could open tommorrow, US have the 762 remember.

Regards

Mike
 
Cubsrule
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:19 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
(ii) - Is the market big enough for two A330's operating daily between Charlotte and London?

No.
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Humberside
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
(i) - Is it wise for a fellow Star Alliance member to take on direct competiiton, as US Airways have been operating CLT-LGW for years?

I would expect any bmi services to US/UA hubs to be in codeshare with US/UA
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:37 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 2):
Even if US would do such a move, an A333 would have problems operating PHX-FRA due to hot and somewhat high PHX.

Only in July-August is it really hot and PHX is 1117 ft above sea level.
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ZKOJH
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:36 am

Come on BD just gives us LHR-JFK! need at least a direct 'Star Alliance' airline to fly this route..
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Boeing74741R
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:40 am

If BD want to expand long-haul then they need more long-haul aircraft (A330s will fit in with the rest of the fleet) unless they have a burning desire to axe all of the long-haul routes ex-MAN.

However I expect them to announce a LHR-JFK flight at the first opportunity they have!
 
vega
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 9):
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 2):
Even if US would do such a move, an A333 would have problems operating PHX-FRA due to hot and somewhat high PHX.

Only in July-August is it really hot and PHX is 1117 ft above sea level.

Any time of the year. US's 333 are the earliest version of the aircraft with underpowered P&W engines. They periodically cannot even make FCO-PHL without weight restrictions.
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planesarecool
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Another way of lookng at this is that US Airways may surrender their LGW-CLT service and allow BMI the rights to operate the flight.

CLT-LGW is one of their most profitable routes - I doubt they'd want to give it up, even to a fellow Star member.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 13):
CLT-LGW is one of their most profitable routes - I doubt they'd want to give it up, even to a fellow Star member.

CLT-LGW is also one of the easiest TATL routes in this country on which to find a $500 ticket.
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vega
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 13):
CLT-LGW is one of their most profitable routes - I doubt they'd want to give it up, even to a fellow Star member.

Well that's only because there is no competition to London. A ? has to be, would US acquire an (expensive) LHR slot for this route and also one for PHL (a given) and most probably PHX, or would they work a deal with BMI for a slot in favor of a code share AND would BMI accept that as a fair trade or decide to do the route themselves essentially reducing the viability of the US CLT-LGW route.
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LTU932
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 12):
US's 333 are the earliest version of the aircraft with underpowered P&W engines.

That's curious, because all of US's 9 A333s are HGW -323X models, not the earlier built -321s and -322s. However, this doesn't change the fact that the A333 will have performance issues in PHX, mostly because of the hot weather.
 
jfk777
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:49 am

BMI will operate to the BIG East coast northern cities first, then Chicago and California. The South is owned by Atlanta & BA also fies from London to CLT. US will continue the CLT-LGW flight, until two or three PHL to LHR flights exist.
 
MAH4546
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 17):
The South is owned by Atlanta & BA also fies from London to CLT.

BA does not fly to Charlotte.
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at777
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:49 am

BA hasn't flown to CLT for around 4 years now.
I remember when they did, it was one of the first 777's i have seen, then it went to 763 service, then they left CLT.

Ashley from CLT
 
walter747
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
(Maybe PHX-FRA?).

Can't do it. The heat is one factor and there would be severe weight restrictions.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 5):
LHR-MIA/BOS/LAS/ORD divided by 7

I don't know about Boston.
They already have

BA 3x BOS-LHR (1 in the morning, 2 at night0
VS 1x BOS-LHR
AA 1x BOS-LHR

Might be a bad decision.
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steeler83
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 20):
I don't know about Boston.
They already have

BA 3x BOS-LHR (1 in the morning, 2 at night0
VS 1x BOS-LHR
AA 1x BOS-LHR

Might be a bad decision.

Heck, people are saying that BMI will definitely serve JFK... Many of us on here, yours truely included, think that is a very unwise decision. BA, AA, and VS, pretty much have that route served to the point of saturation. Having another airline to go in there to fly JFK-LHR would be way too much. BA, I believe has 7 daily flights on that route. How many do AA and VS have. (I actually can't remember if VS flies into JFK from LHR. I know they serve EWR.)
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gigneil
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:43 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 12):
US's 333 are the earliest version of the aircraft with underpowered P&W engines.

US's 333 are A330-323Xs and were delivered from 2001 on. They are the max MTOW of the plane, and can make it the full range of the aircraft from most airfields.

NS
 
Tornado82
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:08 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 9):
Only in July-August is it really hot and PHX is 1117 ft above sea level.

1117ft with those temps can make your density altitudes WELL into the 5000+' range.

For example today at MGW with a similar elevation the high was 81 (which is cold by PHX summer standards) and the DA was dabbling at 3000'. PHX is high and hot enough that together they're a pretty wicked combination on hot days.
 
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LTU932
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:45 am

Nevertheless, if US would really want to start PHX-FRA, they'd either need an A332 or, which may be highly unlikely, base one or two 762s in PHX.
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:52 pm

I would expect BMI to MCO/RDU/STL/BNA. I think BMI is trying to operate smaller cities rather than larger. They will have to compete wtih BA and VS if they go places like JFK, LAX, DEN, ATL, EWR, MIA.

venthough BA and VS operate LGW-MCO, it would be nice to see MCO-LHR. For business passengers who travel to MCO from places like CDG, GVA, VCE, FCO, BRU, BEY, AMM, CAI, MOS, MUC, HAM, DAM, ZUR, etc. they can catch a flight from their city to LHR then straight to MCO. Plus, there are a lot of destinations that LHR serves, other than the U.S., that LGW does not causing a traveler from MCO to transfer between the two airports, which is pain in the royal behind.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:32 pm

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 25):
I would expect BMI to MCO/RDU/STL/BNA.

Do BD airplanes grow on trees? Or is their utilization that low? It would certainly explain the recent financial difficulties if it is.
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MAH4546
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:32 pm

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 25):
I would expect BMI to MCO/RDU/STL/BNA. I

They won't. They definitley, will not.

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 25):
venthough BA and VS operate LGW-MCO, it would be nice to see MCO-LHR. For business passengers who travel to MCO from places like CDG, GVA, VCE, FCO, BRU, BEY, AMM, CAI, MOS, MUC, HAM, DAM, ZUR, etc. they can catch a flight from their city to LHR then straight to MCO. Plus, there are a lot of destinations that LHR serves, other than the U.S., that LGW does not causing a traveler from MCO to transfer between the two airports, which is pain in the royal behind.

You might see BA trasnfer the Orlando service to Heathrow. You won't see bmi at Orlando. The yield sucks and Virgin Atlantic dominates it. The only reason British Airways even flies there is to remain competitive...the Orlando route has been a poor performer for them year after year. There isn't business traffic flying from Orlando to Paris, Moscow, Cairo, Amman, etc. to justify it.

Virgin will stay at Gatwick for Orlando flights, since Virgin bases their high-density 747-400s for low-yielding routes at Gatwick.

IMO, bmi will probably look at flying to Denver, Miami, and Seattle. Those three have strong business class demand, and low frequency with respect to demand. In addition, they probably won't ignore Star hubs like Chicago, San Francisco, and Washington. It is very difficult to predict what bmi is going to do from Heathrow to the US, if anything at all.
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Humberside
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 27):
It is very difficult to predict what bmi is going to do from Heathrow to the US, if anything at all.

I think they will do something, as long as they remain independent

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 27):
You might see BA trasnfer the Orlando service to Heathrow

Te only time I could ever see that happenning is if BA cease all Gatwick long haul, becaue of the yield issue you mentioned for VS
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srbmod
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:56 am

For many years, both BD and VS applied for ATL-LHR in case the city opened up for LHR service. While BA and DL have the ATL-London route well covered, will BA move their ATL-LGW flight over to LHR? If not, that could present an opportunity for VS or BD.

Could LHR-CLT work for BD? Perhaps. If they scheduled it at a time that wouldn't directly compete with US's service to London, a flight that would compliment the current US service to London, it might be able to work.

I still think that someone needs to come in and take on DL on the ATL-MAN route.
 
steeler83
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 29):
For many years, both BD and VS applied for ATL-LHR in case the city opened up for LHR service. While BA and DL have the ATL-London route well covered, will BA move their ATL-LGW flight over to LHR? If not, that could present an opportunity for VS or BD.

Isn't DL applying for LHR slots? I think CO secured them from looking at other threads...
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Humberside
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 29):
will BA move their ATL-LGW flight over to LHR?

They will from the winter 2008/09 season
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steeler83
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 31):
They will from the winter 2008/09 season

That is a good 2 years out. Isn't the US-EU going into effect early in 2008?
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Humberside
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:13 am

Yes. IAH will follow from the start of open skies in about a years time, with ATL/DFW following six months later, which will be the winter season (info from The Sunday Times)
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777D
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:36 am

BMI, if they want to ruffle some feathers, SEA-LHR would be a nice route.
 
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LTU932
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RE: BMI To Launch LHR-CLT Service?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 30):
Isn't DL applying for LHR slots? I think CO secured them from looking at other threads...

Actually it's the other way around it seems. The word is that DL already secured a few slots in a deal with SkyTeam partner AF, while CO has applied for slots at LHR for their future IAH-LHR route.