Buddys747
Topic Author
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New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:30 pm

I was just thinking of new routes out of MDT that would work well while I'm waiting hear at PBI to come home to Harrisburg. These are just my opinion, and most probably would never happen, but you can always hope. Theres way too much traffic going to PHL or BWI. MDT is so convienet and such a nice terminal, it needs more utilization. At least most of the current flights going out are full that I've noticed.

AA/AE Miami
CO Houston, Newark
DL Salt Lake City, JFK
NW Memphis
US Orlando, Las Vegas, Phoenix
UA Denver

New carriars

JetBlue PBI, Boston
Airtran Atlanta, Orlando
Sothwest ? Any ideas.
 
jcf5002
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:05 pm

You know, I lived right across the street from MDT for 2 years while I took classes as Penn State Harrisburg, and I couldn't figure out, for the life of me, why the new terminal was built when the utilization of that airport was so low. I would love to see those routes to go in and out of there and to see more airlines use the airport, but I see a couple of problems:

1) Harrisburg is not exactly a hot-spot destination, and with Philly and Baltimore so close, there's no reason for people to go there instead.

2) With the aforementioned airports so close by, its cheaper to actually drive there from the Harrisburg area and catch your flight, rather than paying the inflated costs out of MDT. If Hbg. Int'l wants to survive, the ticket costs need to be reduced.

3) I could probably see JetBlue trying to get a foothold in there, but not Southwest. JetBlue doesn't really have any airports in that area (this is from memory, so I could be wrong), but Southwest has 2 MAJOR hubs out of PHL and BWI.

Great ideas for getting more business to such a great airport (many of my pictures on the site are from there...), but I think Philadelphia and Baltimore are the biggest problems for it.

-Jeff
Its always a sunny day above the clouds || CSEL, CMEL, CFI, CFII, MEI
 
gregarious119
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting Buddys747 (Thread starter):
CO Houston, Newark
DL Salt Lake City, JFK
NW Memphis
US Orlando, Las Vegas, Phoenix
UA Denver

New carriars

JetBlue PBI, Boston
Airtran Atlanta, Orlando

DL - SLC would be a pretty big stretch. At least a Dash-8 to JFK would be a nice connection. I think they only have ATL and CVG at this point.

NW - gotta get DTW and MSP upgraded to something better than CRJ's before you can add MEM to the list. This would be a great market for the new E170's.

US would have a hard time getting those cities added with PHL being so close.

UA to Denver would be nice. Competition to F9's PHL service.

B6 (JetBlue) to BOS or JFK - I don't understand why B6 isn't in MDT yet. Excellent terminal, little competition, access to the PHL/MDT/RDG/ABE catchment. Enough ranting...

FL to ATL, MDW are great possibilities.

WN - it really would be a hard push with PHL and BWI being so popular. I see them at ABE before I see MDT.
 
Buddys747
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:55 pm

I agree with PHL and BWI being farely close. But 9 out of 10 people I talk to from central PA go to PHL or BWI, so if you could just get those people to stay here instead of driving to there, you could the planes.

Quoting Jcf5002 (Reply 1):
2) With the aforementioned airports so close by, its cheaper to actually drive there from the Harrisburg area and catch your flight, rather than paying the inflated costs out of MDT. If Hbg. Int'l wants to survive, the ticket costs need to be reduced.

I think the prices have been good lately. My flight here to PBI roundtrip was $198 on DL, with US and NW being the same also. I flew to DEN on NW for $230 back in March. I guess the key is to book at the right time and shop around with the different airlines depending on where your going. Overall the price, driving time, crowds, etc., its cheaper and more convienet for me to fly out of MDT. Granted I only fly a few times a year to a handfull of destinations, so I'm sure there might be times where it is not.

The big thing I noticed most lately people complaining about it direct flights. That seems to be what everyone wants.

Quoting Jcf5002 (Reply 1):
3) I could probably see JetBlue trying to get a foothold in there, but not Southwest. JetBlue doesn't really have any airports in that area (this is from memory, so I could be wrong), but Southwest has 2 MAJOR hubs out of PHL and BWI.

Great ideas for getting more business to such a great airport (many of my pictures on the site are from there...), but I think Philadelphia and Baltimore are the biggest problems for it.


 checkmark   checkmark 
 
gregarious119
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:55 am

Can anybody say CMH-MDT?

Skybus?

 Smile
 
deltairlines
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:09 am

I'd think the only routes mentioned above that have any chance of happening are CO to EWR and DL to JFK. DL could use a Dash 8 up to JFK a few times a day; CO could have a Dash 8-400 (when they come onboard) once or twice a day, maybe to connect to the European bank.

As for new carriers, I'd think Allegiant with 4-5x weekly service to SFB and PIE would make sense. I could see that happening a lot more than FL or WN entering the market. B6 is a possibility a few years down the road (maybe around 2012 or so) with a couple of JFK flights and maybe 1 flight to MCO and FLL each (if FLL gate space ever opens up).
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:12 am

AA/AE Miami - possible but AA doesn't have enough RJ's available to go around. There are a number of other cities on the list for RJ service to MIA, but yes MDT is included on this list
CO Houston, Newark - EWR likely to happen at some point, Houston is not likely, since its pushing the range of the ERJ and a long/thin route. However, AA's recent success on MDT-DFW shows that the demand to that that part of the country and a western hub shows its possible
DL Salt Lake City, JFK - JFK Dash-8 service, yes. SLC - no
NW Memphis - no. You still have a DC-9 on one of the DTW flights, I would expect that some of the other frequencies will see CR9's before too long.
US Orlando, Las Vegas, Phoenix - US may return with MCO (I thought they were still flying this?) LAS/PHX no.
UA Denver - no

New carriars

JetBlue PBI, Boston - possible at some point, but there are others higher on their list currently
Airtran Atlanta, Orlando - fairly likely
Southwest ? Any ideas. - not likely to occur anytime soon with the build-up at PHL and the fact they already get all the drive-aways down at BWI. MDT service would basically be poaching from their existing stations.

------
Personally, I like MDT. I've been using it a lot more lately since I can't stand PHL. Considering I'm usually going to the Westchester/Exton/Downingtown area, the time difference is minimal, and at least I don't have to worry about the rediculous delays like at PHL.

While the new terminal is nice, the terminal that is replaced wasn't bad and still had a lot of life left in it considering the amount of air service into MDT. I think they had a little bit of "if you build it, they will come" mentality, which we all know almost is never true when building a terminal expansion. Hopefully, the increased debt load and fees are a detractor for new air service at MDT.

The other big issue for getting new service is the lack of suitable aircraft at specific airlines to access these additional hub sites. Many of these are at the limit or beyond the range of 50 seat RJs, which would have the right capacity, but lack the range and/or economics to make these flights work. With the limited number of 70-seaters (E-Jets), flying them to MDT is not a high priority. Plus, another consideration is that what does this additional service really bring to the table. For example, unless there is a reasonable amount of O&D on MDT-SLC or to small DL markets that can only be accessed through SLC, then what is the point of flying a long/thin route over 1,500 miles when people can make most of the connections through CVG or ATL. Say, MDT-ATL-LAX for example.
 
gregarious119
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 5):
As for new carriers, I'd think Allegiant with 4-5x weekly service to SFB and PIE would make sense. I could see that happening a lot more than FL or WN entering the market. B6 is a possibility a few years down the road (maybe around 2012 or so) with a couple of JFK flights and maybe 1 flight to MCO and FLL each (if FLL gate space ever opens up).

G4 already has significant service going out of ABE - I wonder if they'd add another station so close.

Here's hoping for B6
 
steeler83
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:13 am

If Republic were to put a freed up E70 on PIT-MDT-PIT, should one be freed up when more E75s are put on PIT-PHL, and if the fares come down even further, like 100 bucks round trip instead of one way. That will get me flying out of MDT...  Smile
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
BatonOps
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting Gregarious119 (Reply 7):
G4 already has significant service going out of ABE - I wonder if they'd add another station so close.

I believe G4 has already said due to the high costs of operating at MDT they won't come here.

Quoting Gregarious119 (Reply 7):
Here's hoping for B6

I agree. B6 would be a great airline for MDT. My other suggestion would be F9 to DEN.

It's good to know there are a few of us out there hoping to see new and better things for MDT. Great facility...not a lot of service.
 
MAH4546
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:42 am

A daily RJ to Harrisburg has been on AA's short list to start from MIA for a while, but AA does not have the RJs to do it. I think you'll see it when planes are freed up. It is within the range of the ERJ-140 (same length as MIA-XNA - 1013mi).
a.
 
Humberside
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:43 am

What about DL (Connection) to MCO?
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
BatonOps
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 11):
What about DL (Connection) to MCO?

That would be a great addition. MDT really could use service to MCO. TransMeridian did very well when it flew MDT-SFB prior to going out of business. Since then there has been no scheduled nonstop flights to the Orlando area. The only we have right now is an occasional Southwest charter to MCO.
 
steeler83
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 12):
TransMeridian did very well when it flew MDT-SFB prior to going out of business.

What equipment was used at the time?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
BatonOps
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:48 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 13):
What equipment was used at the time?

If I remember correctly they started with 727-200's...then went to MD-80's. Once in a while a 757 made the run. It was always nice to see a 757 at the new terminal.
 
steeler83
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 14):
If I remember correctly they started with 727-200's...then went to MD-80's.

Wow. There really wasn't any change in capacity really I don't think with that kind of a change.

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 14):
Once in a while a 757 made the run. It was always nice to see a 757 at the new terminal.

Ohh, I bet! PIT doesn't even see too much of them anymore. I would like for MDT to have at least E70 service between PIT and MDT. Didn't US run 733s and/or DC9s between PIT and MDT at US' zenith? DEN, SLC, LAX... any western city I think would do quite well from MDT, and I am sure you would not argue otherwise  Wink

Of course, some would argue otherwise on here...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
jcf5002
Posts: 176
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:25 am

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 14):
If I remember correctly they started with 727-200's...then went to MD-80's. Once in a while a 757 made the run. It was always nice to see a 757 at the new terminal.

Oh you do remember correctly... I was wondering when you'd post! I have some pics (poor quality) of them bringing in all of those a/c in. I even remember them once bringing in a 727-100... It was a stubby little guy!

I remember that being a very successful route for them, usually a decently full flight, took a lot of fuel. Maybe someone else should pick up that route.

-Jeff
Its always a sunny day above the clouds || CSEL, CMEL, CFI, CFII, MEI
 
steeler83
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:35 am

Quoting Jcf5002 (Reply 16):
I remember that being a very successful route for them, usually a decently full flight, took a lot of fuel. Maybe someone else should pick up that route.

Hell, I think it can be done! How long ago did this route operate. Given that it came to the new terminal, it couldn't have been all too long ago... How about B6 coming to town with the E90?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:42 am

Judging by the 747 on the http://www.flyhia.com/ website, I'd say HKG is a possibility?
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
steeler83
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 18):
Judging by the 747 on the http://www.flyhia.com/ website, I'd say HKG is a possibility?

From Harrisburg??? not even a pipe dream... but what do I know...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Tornado82
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:42 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 18):
Judging by the 747 on the http://www.flyhia.com/ website, I'd say HKG is a possibility?

Runway-wise, yes most likely. MDT has a very big runway for a regional airport. But it would be a shame to fly a 747 from MDT to HKG with more crew members than pax onboard.
 
steeler83
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:12 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 20):
Runway-wise, yes most likely. MDT has a very big runway for a regional airport. But it would be a shame to fly a 747 from MDT to HKG with more crew members than pax onboard.

Yeah, bingo on that!  checkmark 

So that would be what... like 5 people on that thing then??? As in, 5 non-crew members??
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Buddys747
Topic Author
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
The other big issue for getting new service is the lack of suitable aircraft at specific airlines to access these additional hub sites. Many of these are at the limit or beyond the range of 50 seat RJs, which would have the right capacity, but lack the range and/or economics to make these flights work. With the limited number of 70-seaters (E-Jets), flying them to MDT is not a high priority. Plus, another consideration is that what does this additional service really bring to the table. For example, unless there is a reasonable amount of O&D on MDT-SLC or to small DL markets that can only be accessed through SLC, then what is the point of flying a long/thin route over 1,500 miles when people can make most of the connections through CVG or ATL. Say, MDT-ATL-LAX for example

I'm not sure I agree totally with the capacity issues. If I remember correctly, there is an average of around 80 people a day that connect to DEN out of MDT. Take those people and the people from here that go to PHL or BWI, and I think you could easliy fill a smaller mainline (73x, 32x). SLC i'm not sure of, but I would say at least seasonal, there are a lot of skiers that go out west to ski from here, myself being one of them. I think you could fill the plane a few times a week.

New service out of MDT has proven well in the past, look at when Transmeridian was here. They had very good success going to Orlando, and the new DFW service on AE is doing quite well.

I realize a lot of these routes would probably never happen, but I really think if they would be here they would be able to fill mainline aircraft, not just 50 seaters.That was my intention with this tread. There are more people than I can imagine that skip right by here and go elsewhere.I'm sure most of the people that were using Trans Meridian to Orlando are probably going to another airport now.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
Personally, I like MDT. I've been using it a lot more lately since I can't stand PHL. Considering I'm usually going to the Westchester/Exton/Downingtown area, the time difference is minimal, and at least I don't have to worry about the rediculous delays like at PHL.

 bigthumbsup 
 
steeler83
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting Buddys747 (Reply 22):
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
Personally, I like MDT. I've been using it a lot more lately since I can't stand PHL. Considering I'm usually going to the Westchester/Exton/Downingtown area, the time difference is minimal, and at least I don't have to worry about the rediculous delays like at PHL.

Hey! We're all local!!! I live in Lancaster, and commute to WCU!  bigthumbsup 

I do all of my traveling back to PIT to see family and friends mostly. As I establish myself out here (a good payin job and what have you), I may travel more and to other cities...  crossfingers 
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
burnsie28
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:13 pm

I used to fly to MDT all the time, and it used to always be nothing but DC-9's now, unfortunately, every once and a while DC-9's show up on the schedule. MSP won't likely ever go bigger then CRJ, currently there is one DC-9 to MDT.
 
SaabFA71
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:26 am

Here's my wish list for new routes out of MDT. Take it for what it's worth: AirTran (ATL, MCO, TPA), Jet Blue (JFK, BOS, MCO), Southwest (MDW, MCO, PIT, PVD or MHT, LAS, PHX), American/AA Eagle (MIA, RDU), Delta (JFK), US Airways ( LGA, PHX), Continental/CO Express (EWR). Just my thoughts. MDT definitely needs a shot in the arm of some sort. I know the possibility of a low-cost carrier coming in to MDT in the next five years is about as likely as Osama bin Laden winning the Nobel Peace Prize. MDT needs to think outside the box, come up with a sweetheart deal of an incentive to all prospective candidate airlines. I just get tired of hearing about airports that already have low fare service picking up even more business from other low-cost carriers. Why can't these airlines focus more heavily on markets that have no low-cost carriers whatsoever rather than pick a fight over turf which was already claimed by the other guy? Again, just my thoughts.
I used all of my sick days, so now I'm calling in dead.
 
Tornado82
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:02 am

Southwest coming to Harrisburg would be a big mistake for them. Much of Harrisburg's bleed to the other airports is going to Southwest as it is, so why add the expense of opening another station when you already have a significant amount of that station's traffic travelling a couple hours to get to Southwest to begin with.
 
gregarious119
Posts: 399
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:59 am

RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 26):
Southwest coming to Harrisburg would be a big mistake for them. Much of Harrisburg's bleed to the other airports is going to Southwest as it is, so why add the expense of opening another station when you already have a significant amount of that station's traffic travelling a couple hours to get to Southwest to begin with.

I think most of us around here would agree with you - Southwest's presence at MDT wouldn't fit all that well with the buildup at PHL and the already strong station at BWI so nearby.

However, what doesn't seem to make sense is that there are some of these other carriers (seems like B6 is the biggest) have holes that could be filled so well at MDT. It's not congested, has a decent catchment area, and is beautiful. So what's keeping these people out?

High fees seems to be the biggest culprit.

Lack of aircraft to use seems to be the other one...
 
Buddys747
Topic Author
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:33 am

RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting SaabFA71 (Reply 25):
MDT needs to think outside the box, come up with a sweetheart deal of an incentive to all prospective candidate airlines



Quoting Gregarious119 (Reply 27):
High fees seems to be the biggest culprit

Totally agree. I wonder how much home work the SARAA is really doing to bring in a low cost carrier. Has anyone ever gone to there meetings?

LCC's have to see the potential here, I'm sure they do there homework also. Something is holding them back. Allegiant stated high fees, etc. If thats the problem maybe the SARAA need to assess there costs.
 
Tornado82
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting Gregarious119 (Reply 27):

However, what doesn't seem to make sense is that there are some of these other carriers (seems like B6 is the biggest) have holes that could be filled so well at MDT. It's not congested, has a decent catchment area, and is beautiful. So what's keeping these people out?

Methinks Allentown would be a better hope for B6 than Harrisburg. Better access to PHL.
 
gregarious119
Posts: 399
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RE: New Routes Out Of MDT That Would Work Well

Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 29):
Methinks Allentown would be a better hope for B6 than Harrisburg. Better access to PHL.

Yeah I hadn't looked that closely at a map to see that you're probably right. It's a shame that both of those roads (76 from MDT and 476 from ABE) are toll roads heading into the Philly area.

Heck RDG is the closest of the three. If only 422 wasn't such a pain outside of Reading it'd be in the prime spot out of the three.

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