BCAInfoSys
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:03 am

I love the Q400 (my all-time fave a/c) and am glad to see more of them..but it is kind of a bummer to see the Q200 phased out. Pretty sweet little birds.  Sad

A couple of years ago, instead of flying SLC-SEA, I flew PIH-IDA-BOI-PDX-SEA for the fun of it. I flew all 3 QX a/c types and got to enjoy lots of the free beer.  Wink
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sebring
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 1):
I love the Q400 (my all-time fave a/c) and am glad to see more of them..but it is kind of a bummer to see the Q200 phased out. Pretty sweet little birds.  

Well, I'm sure they will be flying for some airline. They have a lot of flying left in them.
 
CLEfan
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:42 am

Might Commutair be interested in taking the rest of the Q200's?
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting CLEfan (Reply 3):
Might Commutair be interested in taking the rest of the Q200's?

Most likely.

Good to see QX ordering more Dash 8's. Anyone on here staffed them?

MCOflyer
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F9Animal
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 1):
I love the Q400 (my all-time fave a/c) and am glad to see more of them..but it is kind of a bummer to see the Q200 phased out. Pretty sweet little birds. Sad

I too must agree that the Q200 is a darned sweet airplane to fly on. I still get the enjoyment of watching them come in and out everyday. The Q400 is also a sexy looking bird, so at least they are still keeping the DASH in the fleet. I am sure they will have a specail day dedicated to the retirement of the Q200.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
rikkus67
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:58 am

Took the Q400 (on Horizon) back in Feb of 2002 from SEA to YYC... damn comfortable aircraft and VERY quiet... the plane still had a "new plane" smell to it...VERY nice!! I found the interior to be very upscale and bright. I have been on every version of the Dash 8 (and also the Dash 7), and have been pleased with all. The Q series definitely makes all the difference in the world. Cudos to Horizon for continuing to build a great fleet with this aircraft!
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rafflesking
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:46 am

Slightly off topic but what's the difference between Q200s and Dash-8s? I often fly the latter on US Airways Express, the ride to me is the same as all the CRJs. The primary benefit to me is the flights are generally on time in and out of PHL since the turboprops use a different runway than the mainline jets.

[Edited 2007-04-23 20:46:56]
 
Arrow
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting RafflesKing (Reply 7):
Slightly off topic but what's the difference between Q200s and Dash-8s?

A Q200 is a Dash 8. Models are Q100/Q200/Q300/Q400. Confusion is maybe because the CRJ models are also 100/200.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
SBN580
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:10 am

If only more carriers would have them. Prop prejudice has so hurt these good aircraft. I really want to get on the Q400! I did get to see the prototype Q400 at ICT one time taxi by from the Bombardier/Learjet test facility ramp. Sweet!
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Tornado82
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting RafflesKing (Reply 7):

Bombardier changed the nomenclature to Qx00 instead of Dash 8-x00 when they started their noise dampening stuff. According to their own promos, the Q means Quiet. The type certificates are still Dash 8's though. It's all nomenclature. Any of them can/are called Dash 8s, but only relatively newer ones are considered Q's. US (Piedmont's) are NOT Q's to my knowledge.
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:29 am

Intersting timing. The added QX capacity could also serve as an important leveraging tool
in the company/pilot negotiations at AS.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
rwsea
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:36 am

Is QX planning to cut frequency in some of the smaller markets then? For instance, I fly to PUW and LWS quite often, and would hope that the schedule wouldn't get cut any further. Currently there's only 3x flights a day to PUW, which never seem to have a very convenient schedule for me. I'm hoping that the use of larger aircraft won't cause frequencies to be further cut.
 
USAIRWAYS321
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12):
Currently there's only 3x flights a day to PUW

There's actually 4, which is about perfect for this market. My worry is that the city council won't allow Horizon to bring the Q400 here and we'll be stuck without service. QX petitioned them last year and the request was denied for anything larger than a Q200 to have scheduled service into PUW. They don't realize that larger doesn't always mean louder...
 
silentbob
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 10):
Any of them can/are called Dash 8s, but only relatively newer ones are considered Q's. US (Piedmont's) are NOT Q's to my knowledge.

On the 200s that Piedmont used to fly the NVS was deactivated.
 
rwsea
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 13):
There's actually 4, which is about perfect for this market. My worry is that the city council won't allow Horizon to bring the Q400 here and we'll be stuck without service. QX petitioned them last year and the request was denied for anything larger than a Q200 to have scheduled service into PUW. They don't realize that larger doesn't always mean louder...

Yeah, I do remember that the airport was recently certified for larger aircraft (like the M80 or 737), but we'll see if the Q400's can get in. I could have sworn I'd flown into PUW on one a few years ago, but maybe not.

I wish they could improve the schedule out of PUW. I very often have dinner meetings there around 6:30 or 7, and I'm always worried that the flight will be late and i'll miss my dinner (since the flight gets you in pullman right around 6). The flight before that leaves SEA around noon, so that's a lot of time to kill. I wish there was a flight leaving SEA around 3:00.
 
USAIRWAYS321
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 15):
Yeah, I do remember that the airport was recently certified for larger aircraft (like the M80 or 737), but we'll see if the Q400's can get in. I could have sworn I'd flown into PUW on one a few years ago, but maybe not.

Yeah, larger aircraft can use the airport. The Idaho football team has chartered a Frontier A318 for their road games the past couple of years, for example. The sticking point with city council is what is allowed for regularly scheduled service. They don't mind an A318 every now and then, but last time they were asked (last year), they wouldn't allow a Q400 to be scheduled over the Q200.
 
JRadier
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:26 am

I remember (or maybe it's only hope) that the Q400 had a break-even point only a few seats above the Q200. (note: this is not a fact, unless someone remembers what I read  Wink) This would make it an excelent tool to introduce more seats on the existing timetable without too much risk.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
Chugach
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 17):
I remember (or maybe it's only hope) that the Q400 had a break-even point only a few seats above the Q200. (note: this is not a fact, unless someone remembers what I read Wink) This would make it an excelent tool to introduce more seats on the existing timetable without too much risk.

I think that's the main reason QX is phasing out the Q200. The Q400 is so cheap to operate that they can essentially double capacity without increasing costs, as least as far as I understand it.
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STT757
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting CLEfan (Reply 3):
Might Commutair be interested in taking the rest of the Q200's?

Hopefully they will replace whatever remaining Beech 1900s are operating out of CLE for CO, could some go to Florida to replace Gulfstreams Beech 1900s.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
multimark
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:40 am

It is an embarassment to AC that they are not re-equipping Jazz with Q400's, especially where they compete with Horizon out of YVR. I believe Jazz still flys some of the oldest DH1's out there.
 
EIPremier
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:45 am

Also they are cramming in more seats to the Q400, even though it has a low break even point...first it was 70 seats and then 74, and now 76. The headroom, however, is very good. It's definitely a nice aircraft, but personally I wouldn't want to fly on it for more than a 90 minute flight.

I guess QX will be operating the Q200s for CommutAir for a while, but otherwise is phasing them out?

[Edited 2007-04-24 01:48:52]
 
sanjet
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting Multimark (Reply 20):
It is an embarassment to AC that they are not re-equipping Jazz with Q400's, especially where they compete with Horizon out of YVR. I believe Jazz still flys some of the oldest DH1's out there.

Is there really a need to replace the 37-50 seat dash-8 with 70 seat Q400's? The 100's are still flying strong with some of the best dispatch reliability and still great efficiency. I dont think they would be able to fill all those seats anyways in the canadian regional market.
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KELPkid
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:09 am

I'll miss the sound of the non-Q Dash 8's flying over every night at home (I live 25 miles south of PDX), and the sound of them on approach at work when the 28's are the active runways...  Sad
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eraugrad02
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:30 am

It would be cool to see business class in these. 9 seats like crj-705 and 62 coach. Yes im dreaming i knoww. but still.
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
AlexPorter
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:46 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 23):
I'll miss the sound of the non-Q Dash 8's flying over every night at home

I could be wrong, but I thought the Q designation just meant that the aircraft had reduced noise inside the cabin for passengers. I don't think it has anything to do with outside noise, unless significant improvements in the engines themselves took place with the Q-upgrade (The NVS works with some sensors in the fuselage - not specifically engine improvements, at least according to its description on Bombardier's website).
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QXFLYINGCOUG
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:56 am

Wow this is pretty exciting news for my favorite airline! Too bad I'll be leaving Pullman now and I won't have the chance to watch them fly over my dorm every night!

I too hope that they don't change the frequencies in the smaller markets like my home airport of EAT. We really could use some more seats out of there though! I have been on several flights home from SEA where they ask people to give up their seats and take a flight home the next morning. My dad does a lot of work for the Port District and I know they've been trying to extend the runway and increase capacity in the terminal to get ready for the new planes! It'll be a great day when we can fly the Q400 from EAT-SEA even if it is less than a 30 minute flight. I'll miss the Q200 though, I've always enjoyed trying to find "The Great City of Wenatchee" whenever I see one of those planes on the tarmac. They should name the new planes too!

P.S. Hey there Brett

--GO COUGS--
--GO COUGS--
 
Tornado82
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting EIPremier (Reply 21):

I guess QX will be operating the Q200s for CommutAir for a while, but otherwise is phasing them out?

Horizon operates those?! I thought Commutair bought them from Horizon.
 
sea2pdx
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:02 am

There will be frequency reductions in some markets where the Q400 will take over. Not necessarily a bad thing though. For example, SEA-BLI was 8 Q200s daily, as of 22Apr, its 6 daily Q400s. A loss of 2 flights, but a gain of 148 seats each way. EUG-SEA is another example. Currently 4x Q200 and 1x Q400. Effective 1Jul, it'll be 2x Q200 and 3x Q400. Eventually it will most likely be 4x Q400, so a loss of one flight, but a gain of 74 seats in each direction.

As a side note, yes, the breakeven point for the Q400 is only slightly more than the Q200 - that's why its such an amazing aircraft!
 
KELPkid
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 25):
I could be wrong, but I thought the Q designation just meant that the aircraft had reduced noise inside the cabin for passengers. I don't think it has anything to do with outside noise, unless significant improvements in the engines themselves took place with the Q-upgrade

As I recall, this is why Bombardier re-designed the Q400 with six-bladed props:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © French Frogs AirSlides



The original (4-bladed props):


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Santiago Escobar



More blades means you can turn the props slower, which reduces external noise...  Wink
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YVRLTN
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:17 am

There was a thread a few days ago about a rumor that Canadian North / Regional 1 were going to pick up some Q200's - I guess QX would be the most likely source if so.
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Bicoastal
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:33 am

Would love to have Skywest buy some Q400s for some of its UAX Embraer prop routes....SAN-LAX...among others during peak demand banks.
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pacifica
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:10 am

This is great news of Horizon!

The Q400 is a nice upgrade over the Q200, and I'm sure alot of cities will be thankful for the improvement, although I'd vouch for both aircraft. Not only is the Q400 a great Canadian made aircraft, but I'm a firm believe that regional turboprops should be used on shorter routes rather than regional jets. They're more economical, just as fast, sometimes quieter...quite frankly what's to lose?

Now if only Air Canada Jazz would purchase some Q400s...
 
geg2rap
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12):
Is QX planning to cut frequency in some of the smaller markets then? For instance, I fly to PUW and LWS quite often, and would hope that the schedule wouldn't get cut any further. Currently there's only 3x flights a day to PUW, which never seem to have a very convenient schedule for me. I'm hoping that the use of larger aircraft won't cause frequencies to be further cut.



Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 13):

There's actually 4, which is about perfect for this market. My worry is that the city council won't allow Horizon to bring the Q400 here and we'll be stuck without service. QX petitioned them last year and the request was denied for anything larger than a Q200 to have scheduled service into PUW. They don't realize that larger doesn't always mean louder...

They did fly the q400 in there, for holidays spring break etc. I rode one several times in college at U of I. I was actually at the meeting where they banned anything bigger than the q200, Many old pullman residents talking about the noise (interesting enough when they were complaining only the q200 was in town).
WSU had Frontier this also I think.
Jeremy
 
flyPBA
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting Sea2Pdx (Reply 28):
Horizon operates those?! I thought Commutair bought them from Horizon.

Commutair is leasing them from Horizon ... Horizon is not operating them


as for PUW ... the issue IIRC has more to do with the fact that the aircraft carries 70+ folk all at once rather than the noise of the aircraft itself.

as for the noise levels ... the 6-bladed props are quieter ... but their reason for being is that they are more efficient. the NVS system only refers to the noise-cancelling system (like those BOSE headphones) ... which simply sends inverse sound waves based on what the fuselage-mounted mics pic up. this cancells out the noise (most of it) and you are left with a rather quiet experience.
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 13):
There's actually 4, which is about perfect for this market. My worry is that the city council won't allow Horizon to bring the Q400 here and we'll be stuck without service. QX petitioned them last year and the request was denied for anything larger than a Q200 to have scheduled service into PUW. They don't realize that larger doesn't always mean louder...

Let QX treat the city fathers to a flight or two on the Q400. Once they've been on one of those beauties, they should welcome them with open arms. It would be the best thing that ever happened to that airport. It's an incredible aircraft.
 
cirrusdriver
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:13 pm

So, what is the advantage of flying two types of aircraft with the same capacity?
 
flyPBA
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:51 pm

the Q400 is ideal for high-density, short-medium runs.

the CRJ700 is ideal for low-density, medium-long runs.

The Q400 excels on routes like SEA-GEG or SEA-PDX

the CRJ700 excels on routes like GEG-LAX or SEA-SBA
 
GoDIA
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:51 pm

Has anyone heard any more on Frontier's plans to place some Q400s on short haul regional routes out of DEN? Any ideas what cities they might be used on?
Military Jet Noise--the Sound of Freedom!
 
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mariner
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting GoDIA (Reply 38):
Has anyone heard any more on Frontier's plans to place some Q400s on short haul regional routes out of DEN? Any ideas what cities they might be used on?

There's been a fair amount of discussion about it. Here's one thread:
Frontier Aims To Unveil Lynx's Markets Next Month (by Laxintl Apr 13 2007 in Civil Aviation)?searchid=3356488&s=Lynx#3356488

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
kbfispotter
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:30 pm

It's a bummer to see the -200 going away... I have grown to love these planes over the last few weeks... I find them easy to work on from a MX stand point, and they are also a fun aircraft to work on. The only thing is that the -400 has nothing on the -200 when it comes to reliability.

KBFIspotter
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EIPremier
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:59 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 27):

I wasn't sure if it was a wet lease or a dry lease. So, it sounds like Horizon is just leasing the aircraft to CommutAir, but CommutAir is providing its own crews?

On another subject, somebody else mention Q200 versus Q400 reliability. I have wondered about that myself, as in why a lot of airlines have been reporting reliability issues with their Q400s.
 
kbfispotter
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:20 pm

Quoting EIPremier (Reply 41):
I wasn't sure if it was a wet lease or a dry lease. So, it sounds like Horizon is just leasing the aircraft to CommutAir, but CommutAir is providing its own crews?

QX is subleasing 16 -200's to CommutAir... The Flight are operated entirely bu CommutAir

Kris
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flyPBA
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:00 am

I don't recall Horizon having any real problems with their fleet of Q400s
 
CRJpurser
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting Pacifica (Reply 32):
Now if only Air Canada Jazz would purchase some Q400s...

From your post to Uncle Milton's ears.

Some of our DHC-8s are 20 years old, and the interiors are showing their age. The 300s are newer, but they have not been updated either. The 311s are the newest DHC-8s in the fleet, and they are still 16 years old. The company has been promising cabin up-grades since last summer, so far nothing has been done. There is speculation that they do not want to spend any money on aircraft that they know will only be with us for 1.5 more years (2009 is approaching!)
 
Tornado82
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting CRJpurser (Reply 44):
here is speculation that they do not want to spend any money on aircraft that they know will only be with us for 1.5 more years (2009 is approaching!)

Excuse the ignorance, but what's 2009?
 
doug_or
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting FlyPBA (Reply 43):
I don't recall Horizon having any real problems with their fleet of Q400s

MX and flight crew I've talked to were definately disapointed when it was new. They still poke fun at its reliabilty, not sure if its just a rep that stuck or if their reliability is still lacking.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
kbfispotter
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 46):
not sure if its just a rep that stuck or if their reliability is still lacking.

Reliability is still lacking in some areas... Some aircraft that are being delivered new are having some issues with some defects...

Kris
Proud to be an A&P!!!
 
CRJpurser
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 45):
Excuse the ignorance, but what's 2009?

Sorry. 2009 is the year that all collective agreements of the 9 unions in the Air Canada family are up for negotiations. The two pilot groups ACPA/ALPA are talking about the "Global Solution", which would basically have a great effect on the future of the fleet at Jazz (heck, there may not even be a future for Jazz if the pilots merge). It could be that the company wants to wait until negotiations are over to make any future fleet decisions, and therefore do not want to bother spending millions on cabin up-grades on 16-20 year old aircraft that may be replaced anyway.
 
multimark
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RE: Horizon Buys 15 More Q400s, Will Drop Q200

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting Sanjet (Reply 22):
Is there really a need to replace the 37-50 seat dash-8 with 70 seat Q400's? The 100's are still flying strong with some of the best dispatch reliability and still great efficiency. I dont think they would be able to fill all those seats anyways in the canadian regional market.

As has been pointed out, the Q400 costs little more than the Dash-8 200 to operate, so I imagine the gap between the 400 and the DH3 must be even smaller. Why wouldn't Jazz give themselves the option of increased capacity, for nearly the same operating cost? Jazz's aging Dash fleet rattles and hums like a hive of bees.



Quoting CRJpurser (Reply 48):
Sorry. 2009 is the year that all collective agreements of the 9 unions in the Air Canada family are up for negotiations. The two pilot groups ACPA/ALPA are talking about the "Global Solution", which would basically have a great effect on the future of the fleet at Jazz (heck, there may not even be a future for Jazz if the pilots merge). It could be that the company wants to wait until negotiations are over to make any future fleet decisions, and therefore do not want to bother spending millions on cabin up-grades on 16-20 year old aircraft that may be replaced anyway.

I can't imagine ACE would be keen to lose the cost advantage that having Jazz operate flights gives them, over the cost of mainline. Its not just flight crew costs, but FA's and station agents as well. There have been rumblings of Jazz going all-jet. Why they would want to do this, in the face of escalating fuel costs, is beyond me. Indeed the wholesale move into CRJ200's, when many carriers are fleeing them as fast as they can, is strange.