n1786b
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VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:41 pm

Talked about and speculated, the order for up to 24 787 will be announced today. So long "4 engines"

- n1786b

http://online.wsj.com/preview_login....rticle%2FSB117738339312180057.html


Virgin Atlantic to Take Flight With Boeing's 787s
By J. Lynn Lunsford and Rod Stone

Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd. has agreed to purchase as many as 24 of Boeing Co.'s 787 Dreamliners, according to people close to the matter, as part of a larger strategy to keep the airline competitive on Atlantic routes while addressing concerns about greenhouse-gas emissions.

The deal would be worth as much as $3.6 billion at list prices, though customers typically negotiate discounts on large purchases. The orders, expected to be announced in Chicago this morning, were previously booked on Boeing's Web site, but it didn't identify the buyer.
 
jacobin777
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:44 pm

...wow.....congrats to VS on the deal....looks like SRB took a pitstop to Boeing HQ when he arrived today!

congrats to Boeing and VS...
"Up the Irons!"
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:50 pm

The final nail in the beyond-ridiculous 4engines nonsense.

Very nice.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
We're Nuts
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:51 pm

In the end there was only ever one choice.
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Zkpilot
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:55 pm

Another notch in the belt for Boeing
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
AlexPorter
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:55 pm

Oh no, now they have to deal with ETOPS and other such things! There's no way it will ever work!  Wink

Actually, this is exciting news since the smaller capacity of the 787 along with new Open Skies rules may allow Virgin to expand to more cities in the United States. Good to hear! What kind of 787 variant are they getting - does anyone know yet?
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N328KF
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:55 pm

I noticed that the WSJ's article specifically poked fun at the "4 engines 4 long-haul" slogan...
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
caribbean484
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:57 pm

This is great news and the final death of the "4 long haul 4 engines" concept. Great day for VS and boeing and the first major airline in the Europe to order this a/c.
All ah we is one family
 
MAH4546
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:58 pm

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 5):

Actually, this is exciting news since the smaller capacity of the 787 along with new Open Skies rules may allow Virgin to expand to more cities in the United States. Good to hear! What kind of 787 variant are they getting - does anyone know yet?

I'm very hesitant to think this will lead to expansion in the US. Virgin runs on a very strict O&D network with the only major exception being carrying US<->India traffic. This isn't going to change. The 787s, IMO, will be better used to build up Asia and Africa. I could see them add a US/Canadian city or two, but nothing huge. Just my opinion though, they could very well lean toward changing their business model, but the fact they don't fly short-haul kind of eliminates that option.
a.
 
AlexPorter
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:59 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 6):
I noticed that the WSJ's article specifically poked fun at the "4 engines 4 long-haul" slogan...

Well technically they did quit using that slogan a year or three ago, so that probably hinted at this order, or the potential for some sort of other widebody twin jet in the future.
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
behramjee
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:00 pm

well there goes my prediction for an A 350 order lol...I would bet on the initial models being the -900 version with a purchase clause option to buy the larger -100X model when and if Boeing decides on making it.
 
AlexPorter
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:01 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
I'm very hesitant to think this will lead to expansion in the US.

Well, if anything the 787 is smaller than the A343 (I think - correct me if I'm wrong) so that may allow them to be profitable in a couple more cities anyway, where the A343 is too big for O&D traffic.

[Edited 2007-04-24 07:02:16]
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ikramerica
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:01 pm

15 orders + 9 options I assume?

Who has a link to modified 787 photo in VS's new scheme?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
PEET7G
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:02 pm

Congrats to Boeing and VS if it turns out to be true! They say the order was already booked on the Boeing website, but is there a UFO order for 24 787s that was booked in one time or could it be that the 30 orders are for VS and it is not 24 ,but a 30 plane order?
Peet7G
 
AlexPorter
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:03 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 13):
could it be that the 30 orders are for VS and it is not 24 ,but a 30 plane order?

It could be 24 for Virgin Atlantic with 6 remaining unidentified.
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sparklehorse12
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:03 pm

Good for Boeing and VS....Airbus will be feeling fairly nervous about it. Further proof the 787 project is a winner!
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
md90fan
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:04 pm

Awesome.

Hopefully Virgin will grace The Bahamas again, now that they will be getting the proper equipment to do so  checkmark   bouncy 
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:05 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
but the fact they don't fly short-haul kind of eliminates that option.

...or do some'n along the lines of finally formalizing/expanding a non-merger tieup with BD, as a mutual offensive.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
2wingtips
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:10 pm

This has been a poorly kept secret for quite a while now after a VS insider announced an order for some Dreamy Twins was imminent a few weeks ago.
Big inroads into another mainly Airbus customer. Wonder what this order will do to delayed 346/380 orders, that I predict will end up as cancelled Wink
 
iwok
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:12 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 13):
Congrats to Boeing and VS if it turns out to be true! They say the order was already booked on the Boeing website, but is there a UFO order for 24 787s that was booked in one time or could it be that the 30 orders are for VS and it is not 24 ,but a 30 plane order?

I think we can put the DL rumour to bed once and "4" all.  Smile

This is what they call a "BIG" win...

-iwok
 
We're Nuts
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:13 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 10):
well there goes my prediction for an A 350 order lol...I would bet on the initial models being the -900 version with a purchase clause option to buy the larger -100X model when and if Boeing decides on making it.

Are you using the same information to place this bet that caused you to predict an order for the A350?
Dear moderators: No.
 
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N328KF
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:17 pm

Quoting Iwok (Reply 19):

I think we can put the DL rumour to bed once and "4" all.

There's two big 787 UFO orders, only one of which we have now identified. DL could be the other. Of course, so could AA. I believe this VS order is 15+9 as someone stated above, leaving the 30-frame UFO order.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
MAH4546
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:29 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 21):
DL could be the other.

If you read the thread, there are many reasons explained as to why DL can't be the other.
a.
 
ctang
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:29 pm

Could the other 30+ planes be for CX? Me thinks so and hopes so. After all, it is for a non-US airline.
 
iwok
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:29 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 21):
There's two big 787 UFO orders, only one of which we have now identified. DL could be the other. Of course, so could AA.

Ahh, OK. Maybe thats where some of the confusion is. It would be so cool if the 30x order were actually BA.

iwok
 
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N328KF
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:30 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):

If you read the thread, there are many reasons explained as to why DL can't be the other.

Not a single one of which are more than speculation...
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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Devilfish
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:33 pm

Engines?

I wonder if the first frame would be named Jefferson Starship? - although I rather like Yes better.

[Edited 2007-04-24 07:36:27]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
ikramerica
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:36 pm

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 14):
It could be 24 for Virgin Atlantic with 6 remaining unidentified.

whenever a press release says "as many as" they are talking options, too.

They have 5 A343 and 19 346 aircraft.

That adds up to 24.  Wink

Might we be seeing a small 789 order coupled with a 787-10 order when it is launched?

And maybe a 10+5 order for 748i soon as well?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
SFORunner
Posts: 306
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:42 pm

New Slog: "2 are greener than 4"

Speculation: with the forthcoming US - EU Open Skies, how many of these birds will be destined for US - non-UK routes (i.e. JFK - CDG) versus direct replacement of A340s on US - UK routes?
 
kaitak744
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:42 pm

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 5):
Actually, this is exciting news since the smaller capacity of the 787 along with new Open Skies rules may allow Virgin to expand to more cities in the United States. Good to hear! What kind of 787 variant are they getting - does anyone know yet?

In terms of expansion, open-skies and ect. means absolutely nothing at Heathrow until they build a 3rd runway.

I think they ordered the 787-9 now, but they will later change to the 787-10 once it is launched.

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 13):
could it be that the 30 orders are for VS and it is not 24 ,but a 30 plane order?

It is 15 firm, and perhaps 9 yet to be signed? The 15 unidentified are 787-9s.

The 30 unidentified is almost certainly for Air France / KLM. (Air France 20, KLM 10)
 
SFORunner
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:43 pm

New Slogan: "2 are greener than 4"

Speculation: with the forthcoming US - EU Open Skies, how many of these birds will be destined for US - non-UK routes (i.e. JFK - CDG) versus direct replacement of A340s on US - UK routes?
 
SFORunner
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:48 pm

Also, from Reuters:

http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/...DST_0_VIRGIN-BOEING-DREAMLINER.XML

Virgin's Richard Branson and Boeing Chief Executive W. James McNerney are also expected to unveil a partnership to begin testing biofuel in a Virgin-owned Boeing 747 next year, the paper said.
 
Norcal773
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:01 pm

Good for VS and Boeing.  bigthumbsup 
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:03 pm

Very nice for VS and Boeing's 787 program. Can't wait for the official announcement.

Guess SBR liked the GEnx greener engines.

IMO... This is a hudge steal for Boeing in slowing taking another all Airbus customer to the B side of the field. Now maybe to see a 748i order at Paris?

[Edited 2007-04-24 08:10:58]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
airfrnt
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:06 pm

I think in the long run, these 787 will have a much greater influence on what a post Open Skies VS looks like then the A380, especially in light of FR's decision to enter the transatlantic markets and the fragmentation that will hit once anyone can fly from the New York area to London Heathrow.

Not going too far out on a limb here, but you heard it here first  Wink
 
Vorticity
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:06 pm

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 30):
New Slogan: "2 are greener than 4"

This reminds me of George Orwell's literary classic "Animal Farm". If you've read it, you'll know what I'm talking about. In the beginning, they have the sheep chanting "Four legs good, two legs bad". By the end, they have them chanting "Four legs good, two legs better".  Smile

In all seriousness though, I won't tease anyone for changing direction when they need to. (should that be the case). To be successful in business, you should be able to adapt to what suits your needs best. No need to be stubborn right?
Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
 
MCIGuy
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:14 pm

Fantastic! Finally a European major with more likely to follow. The 787 has already blown past my expectations, and I expected a lot.  Smile
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scbriml
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:14 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 33):
This is a hudge steal for Boeing in slowing taking another all Airbus customer to the B side of the field.

You may have missed VS's fleet of 747s. wink 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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MAH4546
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:19 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 25):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):

If you read the thread, there are many reasons explained as to why DL can't be the other.

Not a single one of which are more than speculation...

It is not "speculation" when a debtor cannot enter into a contract while in bankruptcy.
a.
 
airfrnt
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:35 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 38):

It is not "speculation" when a debtor cannot enter into a contract while in bankruptcy.

I don't know why this myth keeps on propagating. A bankrupt company can in fact enter into new contracts with the court's authority. In fact, one of the primary reasons for bankruptcy is to optimize the operating cost of a company, and things like new airline models certainly form a part of that.

However, a company will probably find a greater interest rate (because of a higher risk) when trying to raise aforementioned capital while in bankruptcy. In the long run it's probably not adventagous enough to offset that cost.
 
11Bravo
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:49 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 37):
You may have missed VS's fleet of 747s.

..., and you may have missed the deferral/cancellation of the VS A380 and the A346 orders. If I were in the Airbus boardroom, I'd be very concerned about what seems to be a well established pattern of heretofore loyal Airbus customers getting out the checkbook for the B787.

I think Airbus better start figuring out how to win some of these Blue Chip orders for the A350, or they will find themselves in very serious trouble pretty soon.

Paris '07 needs to be very good for Airbus.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
ikramerica
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:56 pm

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 39):
I don't know why this myth keeps on propagating. A bankrupt company can in fact enter into new contracts with the court's authority.

Yes, but it must be public record when done. It can't be UFO. THAT'S THE POINT that so many people don't seem to get.

DL may very well enter into a contract for 787s the day they exit BK.

Or they could do it beforehand, but we'd hear about it!
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:00 pm

Well done VS, Looks to me as this will be for the expansion to the US from various major European Cities. I just hope a aircraft with two engines can make it all the way to the US!!  Yeah sure
 
PEET7G
Posts: 468
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:02 pm

If this turns out to be true, I am still waiting for all those nimbys to come froward and at least apologize for flaming the guy (I think a pilot at VS) who was spreading the word weeks and weeks ago. I am very sorry, I don't remember his name and I can't find that thread, but I remember how I was shocked how some "know it all, cheerleaders" flamed the poor guy.  footinmouth 

I think this story perfectly shows how A.net lost it's good old magic, and people are scared to post their heard rumors, because some smartarse arm chair CEOs flame every rumor that is not to their taste or not backed by 100 news-releases...  Yeah sure
Peet7G
 
a3
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:05 pm

After this development , i am sure that soon Virgin America will start flying...............................
Don't spend your money on airlines that don't respect your business.
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:09 pm

As has been said, this is now old news. Looking forward to reading Boeings news release on this

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 15):
Airbus will be feeling fairly nervous about it. Further proof the 787 project is a winner!

Especially since VS is one of Airbuses good customers
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copaair737
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:09 pm

Nice work by VS. Will be great to see the 787 in VS colors.
I wonder if they'll use them for EU-US point to point routes? Maybe some routes out of SFO to Fiji or Tahiti? Could get interesting, especially if Virgin USA ever gets off the ground.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
slz396
Posts: 1883
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 7:01 am

RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:17 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 40):
and you may have missed the deferral/cancellation of the VS A380 and the A346 orders. If I were in the Airbus boardroom, I'd be very concerned about what seems to be a well established pattern of heretofore loyal Airbus customers getting out the checkbook for the B787.

VS has never been and in fact non of the 'Airbus customers that take out the checkbook for a 787' you refer too has ever been an Airbus-only customer, so I don't really see a worrying pattern other than Airbus-too customers buying Boeing-too from time to time just as they have done in the past...

The current enthusiasm actually unveils hidden defeatism from the past, when Boeing cheerleaders apparently assumed scores of Airbus customers to be lost forever to their manufacturer.... Just as they now talk about them coming back to the Boeing camp, just because they order from Boeing this time... Next thing you know, VS swing away again by signing for A350XWBs (to replace their A340NGs) and to build a fleet similar to that of parent airline SQ with both the 787 and A350XWB alongside... Then what? Are they lost again?

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 40):
I think Airbus better start figuring out how to win some of these Blue Chip orders for the A350, or they will find themselves in very serious trouble pretty soon.

Interesting to see how basically EACH year we see the same pattern develop:
Airbus falling back in the order race in the run up to Farnborough/Le Bourget. Doubt developing over the size of their order book, and then on the 5-day event itself, literally hundreds of orders announced...

Strange how some people never seem to learn lessons from the past...
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:19 pm

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 18):
Wonder what this order will do to delayed 346/380 orders, that I predict will end up as cancelled  Wink

...there were some A.netters here (cough, cough, Jacobin777 and Zvezda, former A.netter Leelaw) who have been stating for a while that there is a possibility of VS cancelling the A380...this order probably increases the probability of it happening even more and more....

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 40):

..., and you may have missed the deferral/cancellation of the VS A380 and the A346 orders. If I were in the Airbus boardroom, I'd be very concerned about what seems to be a well established pattern of heretofore loyal Airbus customers getting out the checkbook for the B787.

....Airbus has taken many traditional Boeing customers also...it works both ways...... yes 
"Up the Irons!"
 
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Devilfish
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RE: VS Selects The 787

Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:26 pm

On second thought, SRB might prefer Led Zeppelin.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield

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