musapapaya
Posts: 990
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:02 am

BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:23 am

Dear all,

Just browsing through the photo database and found this:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kenneth C. Iwelumo



Is this extraordinarily dirty?

Best wishes
William
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:24 am

Who cares? As long as it's safe, it matters not.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
musapapaya
Posts: 990
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:02 am

RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
Who cares? As long as it's safe, it matters not.

Its just coporate image, and I think it does matter.
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
Pe@rson
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Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:31 am

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 2):
Its just coporate image, and I think it does matter.

"We're unprofitable but at least our aircraft are clean."

"Oh, well that's OK then!"

And, yes, I realise that BA is not unprofitable.

 

I think airlines have far more to worry about than cleaning their aircraft wings to make them look totally clean.

[Edited 2007-04-24 19:33:43]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
musapapaya
Posts: 990
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:57 am

BA is not the worst nor the best airline in the world. They are also not the most profitable in the world.
It is important for any company to look for ways to improve, give their customers a better experience, feeling etc. With their negative news routinely spread around the country (you know the country's media) it is important they find something to improve in order to make themself better and MORE profitable. The reason I post this on here is that I have never seen a wing as dirty as this on a 777. Thats it.
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
AF1624
Posts: 498
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:13 am

It's a question of taste. Some like to fly in pretty airplanes, no matter the cost of the airline ticket, or the airline's quality. Some others just care about the airplane's being perfectly taken care of, an airplane that will fly flawlessly.

Of course, the first fact does not prevent the second from being true. But somehow, the airlines tend to cut the costs on paint jobs, and superficial aircraft cleansing, to improve their maintenance departments. AF has had the same livery for years, and do not seem to be willing to change it. Why ? Not because of a lack of artistic tastes. Simply because it's too expensive. They'd rather keep their money to keep on being the biggest, most profitable international airline in Europe.
Cheers
 
PHKLM
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:24 am

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 5):
They'd rather keep their money to keep on being the biggest, most profitable international airline in Europe.

I don't want to sound very arrogant, but well, the good AF performance is mainly achieved by KLM.
Don't get me wrong, I think AF is a very capable airline, but you should credit the ones that deserve to be credited.
 
varig md-11
Posts: 1112
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 7:17 pm

RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 6):
the good AF performance is mainly achieved by KLM

ongeloofelijk!!!!
whenever a dutch company is bought by a foreigner that's the same song.....
you forgot to mention that KL pension fund is financing AF too, or that KL service is much lower now the French are in charge etc etc etc.....
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:03 am

Quoting Musapapaya (Thread starter):

It does matter , people who look out of the window will not have a good image of BA .
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
BA787
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:08 am

Chances are the plane had just flown to the US and was flying back again, this coul make the plane dirty depending on the atmosphere but...


Big whoop, dirty planes mean nothing and don't affect many people confidence in the airline.

Also, BA use those a/c as much as they can, cleaning them unnecessarily too often is a waste of hours
 
richierich
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
Chances are the plane had just flown to the US and was flying back again, this coul make the plane dirty depending on the atmosphere but...


Big whoop, dirty planes mean nothing and don't affect many people confidence in the airline.

Also, BA use those a/c as much as they can, cleaning them unnecessarily too often is a waste of hours

I totally agree and hear what you are saying, but I will have to say that the greasy wing in the threadstarter's pic is pretty filthy and does not present the best opinion of BA. Just like US Airways' B737s with excessive paint missing - its not unsafe or dangerous but it presents a negative image. '

I don't need a "pretty" aircraft, but it sure helps public confidence to have a sharp, clean aircraft.
None shall pass!!!!
 
WestJetYQQ
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 9):
It does matter , people who look out of the window will not have a good image of BA .

My thoughts exactly. It also tarnishes the opinions of aviation. There should be perfectly clean beautiful, long, slender wings on every aircraft. This is just ugly.  Wink

Cheers
Carson
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
hotelmode
Posts: 179
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:44 am

Looks to me like it had operated from an airfield with standing snow and thats the residue, thats why its mostly on the aft flap section. Combination of dirty snow and deicing fluid aint pretty. You cant expect aircraft to get valeted every trip.
 
AA777
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Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:06 am

In general BA keeps their planes quite clean on the inside and out. This one clearly has not been cleaned recently- but surely it is the exception, not the norm.

-AA777
 
Knightsofmalta
Posts: 1687
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:40 pm

I think such a filthy wing coud make passengers nervous because it looks like there's an oil or kerosene leak somewhere on that wing, which is hardly very comforting.
 
AlexPorter
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:42 pm

I have been on a good number of flights where the aircraft exterior is spotless, except that the wings are dirty like this.

Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 12):
Looks to me like it had operated from an airfield with standing snow and thats the residue, thats why its mostly on the aft flap section. Combination of dirty snow and deicing fluid aint pretty. You cant expect aircraft to get valeted every trip.

Of course, I am from Minneapolis, and this could be why I see so many dirty wings.
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
jasond
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:06 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
Who cares? As long as it's safe, it matters not.

Doesn't look fantastic though does it. It doesn't have to be so clean I can eat off it but if I saw that I would think twice about flying with them.
 
louA340
Posts: 321
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:22 am

I feel its just because of the aircraft utilization and they haven't had time to clean it.
Look at this picture of an Emirates 777. The flaps are also quite dirty. Does that mean u wont fly them, I don't think so.

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Photo © Bernhard Bauske

RyEng
 
Lan1981
Posts: 95
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:01 am

I do agree with those that have said dirty aircraft aren't the best way to enhance the corporate identity of an airline...I would use the same argument when using the 'premises' of any company, let's say a Starbucks cafe or a bank branch.

Having said that, I must also say in defence of BA that the photo above is the exception rather than the rule.

I must also admit that although shiny, clean aircraft look nicer, there are times when one could say that a little dirt marks here or there add a certain 'character' to the aircraft; I quite like seeing those dirt marks that stretch upwards and away from the corners of the flightdeck windows...gives an impression of speed...maybe it's just me!
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
Who cares? As long as it's safe, it matters not.



Quoting BA787 (Reply 9):
Big whoop, dirty planes mean nothing and don't affect many people confidence in the airline.

We can debate this all day. But regardless of the safety and service of an airline, a dirty airplane does not help the company's image. Granted it may not prevent passengers from flying with the airline initially, but in the long run, if continued I am sure the only effect would a negative one.

I imagine this negative effect would be greater if for some reason conditions, (financially, service etc) start to take a turn for the worse as so often happens from time to time in the industry.

[Edited 2007-04-25 21:17:09]
There is something special about planes....
 
BA787
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RE: BA Is 'getting Better' Than AF, In Some Way!

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 10):

I can see what you mean.

If I look at it from an inconfident flyer, I can see why confidence may be lost, even if it is for no reason. Bit of dirt never harmed anyone Big grin