easyas321
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Chartering A Private 747?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:45 pm

if an aircraft is privately owned & registered, how can it be chartered for commercial purposes?
 
graphic
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:55 pm

Quoting Easyas321 (Thread starter):
if an aircraft is privately owned & registered, how can it be chartered for commercial purposes?

Define "Privately." If the private operator has a part 135 or 121 certificate, than they can charter their aircraft IIRC. Technically, Sun Country and I think Allegiant as well are both privately owned companies.
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easyas321
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:04 pm

Quoting Graphic (Reply 1):
Define "Privately." If the private operator has a part 135 or 121 certificate, than they can charter their aircraft IIRC.

can u explain what is a part 135 or 121 certificate ? Presume they are a U.S. certificate & only relates to U.S. registered aircraft. What's IIRC?

Michael
 
GARUDAROD
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:29 pm

Since you are in the UK, you might want to check with Air Atlanta or Travel City Direct/XCEL. They
have B747's available for charter. Even Virgin or BA make aircraft available if its cost effective.
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easyas321
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:36 pm

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 3):
Since you are in the UK,

not in the UK-in the best country in the world !!!
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:07 pm

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 2):
can u explain what is a part 135 or 121 certificate ?

Basically, the regulations that govern air carriers.

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 2):
What's IIRC?

If I Recall Correctly.
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easyas321
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:28 pm

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 5):
Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 2):
can u explain what is a part 135 or 121 certificate ?

Basically, the regulations that govern air carriers.

but not private aircraft ?????
 
CV580Freak
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:24 pm

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 4):
not in the UK-in the best country in the world !!!

That is the UK  Smile

Most airlines will charter an aircraft for private or personal use.
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71Zulu
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting Graphic (Reply 1):
...and I think Allegiant as well are both privately owned companies.

Allegiant went public last year and is now traded on the NASDAQ exchange, symbol ALGT
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ShyFlyer
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 6):
but not private aircraft ?????

I'm assuming by "private" you mean owned by an individual? If so, it is possible that an individual could have an aircraft on a Part 135 or 121 certificate. However, this is very expensive to do, therefore it is highly unlikely that that you would find such an aircraft.
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Stealthz
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:03 am

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 6):
but not private aircraft ?????

But if they wished to charter their aircraft for passenger use those rules would applay, or their local equivelent
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jbernie
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:50 am

I guess some more information from the thread starter would help, but let me throw out a possibility. One of the Sultans or something in the Middle East has a large private jet (or 5  Wink). As the owner of the jet, would he be able to say have some other very rich person pay him an agreed upon fee for the 2nd person and few hundred "friends" to say travel from Dubai to London to watch the FA Cup Final or something?

This would be as opposed to a charter in the form of some of the budget travel companies that would charter a jet to carry a few hundred unrelated people to a vacation spot, say London to Jamaica. (Maybe a Thomas Cook?)
 
Flighty
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:03 am

The tax implications of selling charters on your personal 747 are really complicated. It's easier to create an LLC so the customers cannot sue you personally (if it crashes) and take all your money. Then it's a business you own, and whenever you fly, you need to pay your own business for it... a real pain. Also, a business can't be a personal money-losing party machine. Businesses have to carry their weight or else the IRS comes knocking.

So it's not worth the bother unless some really slick broker builds a network of say 30 super clean VIP jets that private owners make available (like vacation properties). Maybe somebody out there does this.
 
easyas321
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 10):
Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 6):
but not private aircraft ?????

But if they wished to charter their aircraft for passenger use those rules would applay, or their local equivelent

but not talking about chartering it

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 7):
Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 4):
not in the UK-in the best country in the world !!!

Australia not UK !!!

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 10):
but not private aircraft ?????

But if they wished to charter their aircraft for passenger use those rules would applay, or their local equivelent

the 747SP is apparently registered in Aruba but is just parked in the USA 300+ days a year by U.S. owner.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):
The tax implications of selling charters on your personal 747 are really complicated. It's easier to create an LLC so the customers cannot sue you personally (if it crashes) and take all your money. Then it's a business you own, and whenever you fly, you need to pay your own business for it... a real pain. Also, a business can't be a personal money-losing party machine. Businesses have to carry their weight or else the IRS comes knocking.

Tax implications in Aruba ? Isn't it a tax haven? Regardless out of IRS juristiction.
 
graphic
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting Easyas321 (Reply 13):

Tax implications in Aruba ? Isn't it a tax haven? Regardless out of IRS juristiction.

Taxes don't have as much to do with it, if it's a privately operated aircraft, all it's flight operations will be conducted in the U.S. under 14 CFR part 91. Under those rules, people can rent your aircraft, but you can't do things like on-demand air taxi, as that intrudes into 14 CFR part 135, and if you don't have the 135 certificate, you cant charter. 14 CFR part 121 is the most strict, generally has the least amount of fatal accidents, and is the FAR that the airlines operate under.
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easyas321
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:26 pm

Quoting Graphic (Reply 14):
Taxes don't have as much to do with it, if it's a privately operated aircraft, all it's flight operations will be conducted in the U.S. under 14 CFR part 91. Under those rules, people can rent your aircraft, but you can't do things like on-demand air taxi, as that intrudes into 14 CFR part 135, and if you don't have the 135 certificate, you cant charter. 14 CFR part 121 is the most strict, generally has the least amount of fatal accidents, and is the FAR that the airlines operate under.

then what if it didn't operate in the U.S. ? What about from Canada ? Do they have similar rules ?
 
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zeke
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:35 pm

Quoting Graphic (Reply 14):
all it's flight operations will be conducted in the U.S. under 14 CFR part 91.

I would think it would be operated under the Department of Civil Aviation Aruba rules in accordance with the Aruba Aviation Act.
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easyas321
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:52 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 16):
I would think it would be operated under the Department of Civil Aviation Aruba rules in accordance with the Aruba Aviation Act.

which are probably a lot slacker than US rules ???
 
N353SK
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:25 pm

Heres another Semi-related question: If that 747SP is registered in aruba Can that aircraft legally transport paying passengers between two points in the US or would that be considered Cabotage?
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting N353SK (Reply 18):
If that 747SP is registered in aruba Can that aircraft legally transport paying passengers between two points in the US or would that be considered Cabotage?

I'm not an expert on this, but it would seem to me that as long as the owner and/or operator of the aircraft is US based, then cabotage would not apply. I can't find a photo of it now, but Frontier operated an Irish registered B732 for a time.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
easyas321
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RE: Chartering A Private 747?

Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:56 pm

Quoting N353SK (Reply 18):
Heres another Semi-related question: If that 747SP is registered in aruba Can that aircraft legally transport paying passengers between two points in the US or would that be considered Cabotage?

simplistically ... think this is the case ???

Carriers often lease foreign aircraft for short periods to cover for aircraft undergoing maintenance. These aircraft operate under the AOC of the operator, so if the operator was American then not cabotage issues.