warszawa
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AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:20 pm

Came across this while messing around on Flightaware, checkout TWN9245, an AN-12 currently enroute (as of 1am eastern-time) MIA-SEA, approximately 9hr 30min flight for this quad-turboprop russian aircraft.

I've always thought most russian airliners were banned from flying here in the USA? I understand many of the modern ones (such as the Myria) are allowed, though an AN-12?

Presumably its reg # UK-11418, which, per photos in the database, looks like a scrungy ole aircraft. FL280 is one hell of a high altitude for that old beast as it cruises over DEN as I type this.


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Photo © Teemu Tuuri - FAP


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Photo © Dmitry Avdeev



Likely one of the longest turboprop flights here in the USA at about 9hr 30min-10hrs, and highest flying (FL280)? At least that i've seen. Hell a little higher and perhaps it'll giveoff 4 little contrails in the sky  laughing 

Anyone know whats the deal with this aircraft flying MIA-SEA? Perhaps for a museum? Looks like it left OPF for MIA, likely refueled, then departed for SEA.
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
miamix707
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:50 pm

That one has looked semi-derelict for over a year and the paint has deteriorated quickly in the 6 it has operated in the tropical sun. Not sure what Avialeasing transports in domestic US flights, they usually fly from S.Florida to the Caribbean.

This is the one that's flying now:


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Photo © MarkStevens


[Edited 2007-04-25 07:54:33]
 
CV580Freak
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:19 pm

The AN-12 is a very rugged workhorse and will haul 20 ton of cargo where ever the clients need it.

The FAA must be happy with the safty issues of they wouldn't have certified it to operate in the USA.
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
philb
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:29 pm

The aircraft is Ukrainian registered, not Russian and, though it was built in the Soviet era, Antonov has always been based in the Ukraine so, strictly, it is a Ukrainian design. The service ceiling is 33,000 feet (10,000 metres) and whilst the type is rare in the US it is a workhorse in both eastern and western Europe and is a joy to see and hear.
 
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scbriml
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:29 pm

It's very rare to see an An-12 that doesn't look like it's ready for the scrap heap. They are noisy and dirty, but they go on and on and on and on. Us old-uns love them! old 

You young whippersnappers can keep your 737s with winglets and leave the real planes to us! yes 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:50 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 5):
You young whippersnappers can keep your 737s with winglets and leave the real planes to us! 

Amen to that, brother!!
Antonov turboprops rock!! Hell - anything driven by propeller rock!! Nothing beats the noise and vibration of the propeller-driven aircraft. If you haven't flown on one, you haven't flown for real!!
POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
philb
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 6):
Antonov turboprops rock!! Hell - anything driven by propeller rock!! Nothing beats the noise and vibration of the propeller-driven aircraft.

Exactly.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 6):
If you haven't flown on one, you haven't flown for real!!

Does a TAROM IL-18 in 1973 come close?
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:04 pm

Quoting Philb (Reply 7):
Does a TAROM IL-18 in 1973 come close?

That's as close as it gets!!
Add to that some bush-flying in a mother of all biplanes - the An-2 Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin

aaah, the memories...  cloudnine 
POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
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scbriml
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:24 pm

Quoting Philb (Reply 7):
Does a TAROM IL-18 in 1973 come close?

Hell yes!  drool 

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 8):
Add to that some bush-flying in a mother of all biplanes - the An-2

Oh I love it when we talk dirty!  wink 

I can't manage an Il-18, but I do have a DC-6 and an An-2 under my belt. Not literally, as that would make my trousers very large indeed.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
philb
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:37 pm

Flew Constanta-Istanbul and return in September 1973. Took off at 06.30 local, thoroughly enjoyed the ride and rapid descent into Istanbul, but not the TAROM breakfast - bitter chocolate bar and tepid water!

The aircraft had 3 cockpit crews on board and spent part of the day crew training over the Black Sea before taking us back with boarding at 10 pm. We waited out a thunderstorm for 45 minutes next to a Transglobe CL44 - both of us with engines running, an amazing sight and sound - Tynes and Ivchenkos in harmony (!), had a great flight back to Constanta and made a very flat approach to the airport - very unusual for an IL-18.

Unfortunately the aircraft ws YR-IMK which crashed into the Red Sea operating a Hadj flight for egyptair in December 1974.
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting Warszawa (Thread starter):
and highest flying (FL280)?

The Starship and Avanti routinely fly that high or higher.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
visityyj
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:50 am

Now on its way to Los Cabos: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TWN9246
 
philb
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:52 am

Some turboprops with service ceilings over 28,000 feet:

AN12 33,000
AN22 33,000
AN24 29,000
AN32 31,000
AN70 31,000
Atlantic 32,000
Beech C 90 29,000
Beech 200 35,000
Beech 300 35,000
Beech 350 35,000
Beech Starship 41,000
Beech 1900D 33,000
BAe ATP 29,000
C130 33,000
C160 30,000
Cessna 425 34,000
Cessna 441 37,000
DO 228 29,000
DO 328 31,000
EMB 120 32,000
Merlin 300 31,000
G222 29,000
Gulfstream 1 30,000
IL18 33,000
LET 610 33,000
MU 2 29,000
PC 9 38,000
PC 12 30,000
PA 42 35,000
PA 31T 32,000
SAAB 2000 31,000
Super Tucano 30,000

Source: DFS published data
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:50 am

TU-95 / TU-114 39,000'
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:19 am

I wonder what the view would be like from 28000 ft. sitting in that rear gun turret position.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
Gemuser
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 2):
The FAA must be happy with the safty issues of they wouldn't have certified it to operate in the USA.

It's not FAA certified! It does not have to be if it is operating an international service as it appears to be. It is registered & certified in the Ukrain, a member state of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO), as is the USA, therefore its home certification is accepted by other members for international operations.

If a US airline was operating it that would be an entirely different matter.

Gemuser
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CV580Freak
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:04 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 15):
I wonder what the view would be like from 28000 ft. sitting in that rear gun turret position.

The Navigater gets the best view, he lies between the pilots and looks out of the glass dome on the nose....
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
bond007
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:17 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 16):
It's not FAA certified! It does not have to be if it is operating an international service as it appears to be. It is registered & certified in the Ukrain, a member state of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO), as is the USA, therefore its home certification is accepted by other members for international operations.

Well, maybe not 'certified', but certainly FAA approved. FAR Part 129 specifically applies to foreign operators using foreign registered aircraft within US airspace. Opspecs must be approved by the FAA and inspections and requirements may be above that required by the home certification (strengthened cockpit doors for pax ops is one example).

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
socalatc
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting Visityyj (Reply 12):
Now on its way to Los Cabos

Taking an Alaska 737 engine to SJD for A/C I believe 317.. AS must be paying a pretty penny for this Fix. ouch!
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 19):
Taking an Alaska 737 engine to SJD for A/C I believe 317.. AS must be paying a pretty penny for this Fix. ouch!

I wonder why they didn't hire a local company to transport the engine.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
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clickhappy
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:58 pm

who would have a plane large enough to transport a 737 engine, on an ad hoc basis?
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:14 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 21):

Would a C-130 work if you're just shipping the engine itself with no cowling.

http://www.firstair.ca/Charters/fleet_info.html

Or 747Fs by Cargo360
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
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clickhappy
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:20 pm

Cargo360 is only based in Seattle, they never fly here, and their planes are busy flying for Korean.

I'm sure for Alaska it came down to cost + avalability.
 
philb
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:45 pm

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 22):
Would a C-130 work if you're just shipping the engine itself with no cowling.

Who in the US has a C-130 available for a one off, time dependant, delivery of outsize cargo? What is your problem with a foreign carrier doing the job?
 
socalatc
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:04 pm

I remember a LONG time ago AS flew a 737-200 freighter down to Mexico from ANC I believe to replace a MD-80 engine, however due to the lack of cargo a/c and high demand I guess thats not an option anymore. I think they stopped it at LAX for fuel.
 
IAH777
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:09 pm

We see the Avialeasing Antonov in IAH on occasion. Always from MIA.
 
CV580Freak
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:01 pm

Even an AOG situation like this would have some cost implications but I doubt that an ad-hoc charter of this type would be found cheaper than the AN-12 and it looks like it completed the mission on time.
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
jayspilot
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:40 pm

Regardless if the AN-12 wanted to fly higher then FL280 from MIA-SEA, RVSM starts at FL290 and I am sure that this airplane is not certified for rvsm separation. RVSM is revised vertical separation minimums. Above FL290 separation used to be 2000' and it is now 1000'. Planes have to be specially certified.
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Philb (Reply 24):
Who in the US has a C-130 available for a one off, time dependant, delivery of outsize cargo? What is your problem with a foreign carrier doing the job?



Quoting SkyexRamper (Thread starter):
http://www.firstair.caharters/fleet_info.html

I don't have a problem, just seems like it would have been very expensive and took much longer to get the An-12 to fly as long as it did.

Though to answer your question about the C-130...check out the url that I had in my posting...FirstAir has one based in Yellowknife.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
philb
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:33 am

This time of year that Herc is pretty much employed on oil contracts and is unlikely to be able to take out 24 hours or more for the job AS needed doing.

Even if it were available it's odds on the AN-12 operator would offer a cheaper rate.
 
bond007
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:44 am

I guess we might assume that AS actually did some research .... and low and behold found the AN-12 to be the best fit for their timeline and requirements ....just guessing  Wink


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
miamix707
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RE: AN-12 Quad Prop Flying MIA-SEA, 9hr 35min, FL280?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:10 am

Hearing that one DC-7 in vintage AA colors take off from OPF and oh! the sound. Simply beautiful.

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