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VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:51 pm

Now that part one VS Selects The 787 (by N1786b Apr 24 2007 in Civil Aviation) has reached over 208 replys, here part 2.

Boeing have released an artist impression on what the B789 will look like in VS's colours and it looks nice. The picture is in part 1. Boeing has certainly hit a winner with the B787
 
PEET7G
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:02 pm

OK, Just to clear me up a little, does this VS order identify the 15 UFO orders from few weeks ago or it is half of the 30 UFO 787 orders placed 2 weeks ago? Are we still waiting for a surprise customer on the big 30pc 787 order?

As to the infos I gathered the 30 are 788s and VS ordered the 789, so I'd expect that the big customer is still to be revieled, but I might be wrong in that the 30pc order was not all for 788s
Peet7G
 
kalakaua
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:03 pm


The Boeing Co.


[Edited 2007-04-25 08:03:52]
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
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BNE
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:18 pm

From the previous thread; the breakdown of the order is:

- VS have ordered 15 firm 789s
- VS have taken 8 x 789 Options
- VS Have taken 20 additional Purchase Rights on unspecified models of the 787
- The 15 firm have been booked as UFO
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
kalakaua
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:22 pm



I'm also interested in VS possibly ordering the A350XWB as well. It was discussed lightly in the first thread.

Quoting Reuters.uk:
CHICAGO, April 24 (Reuters) - Virgin Atlantic [VA.UL] Chairman Sir Richard Branson said on Tuesday the British airline could still consider buying Airbus' A350 jet if it proved to be more fuel efficient than Boeing Co.'s (BA.N: Quote, Profile , Research) rival 787 Dreamliner.

Branson's comments, made after Virgin announced an order of 15 787s worth about $2.8 billion, threw a lifeline to European planemaker Airbus, an EADS (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile , Research) affiliate, which is struggling to make inroads into the lucrative wide-body market with the revamped design of its competing A350 jet.

"The 787 is available and it performs very well," Branson said at a press conference at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago.

Branson, who has publicly expressed concerns about airlines' impact on the environment, said Virgin would consider alternatives to the 787 if they proved more fuel efficient. "That's what competition is all about," he said.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
brendows
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:23 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 1):
Does this VS order identify the 15 UFO orders from few weeks ago or it is half of the 30 UFO 787 orders placed 2 weeks ago?

These were ordered on the 9th of March, was listed as 15 UFO 789s, and was not half of the 30 UFO 788s that were ordered two weeks ago.

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 1):
Are we still waiting for a surprise customer on the big 30pc 787 order?

Yes, this order will be announced at the Paris Air Show.
 
PEET7G
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:12 pm

Quoting Brendows (Reply 5):
Yes, this order will be announced at the Paris Air Show.

Damn, the VS order, todays AC announcement ,etc, etc, etc... too much for my nerves now, I will probabl crack if have to wait for the airshow Big grin
Peet7G
 
BHD
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:45 pm

Apologise if this has been asked already, but Is VS the first airliner to order both 787 and A380, combining both A & Bs predictions about how future air demand will be relaised?

Thanks
Woody
 
jacobin777
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:58 pm

Quoting BHD (Reply 7):
Apologise if this has been asked already, but Is VS the first airliner to order both 787 and A380, combining both A & Bs predictions about how future air demand will be relaised?

...nope...SQ, QF, KE, ILFC and China Southern are some of the ones which have an order for both... Smile
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Lemurs
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:59 pm

Quoting BHD (Reply 7):
Apologise if this has been asked already, but Is VS the first airliner to order both 787 and A380, combining both A & Bs predictions about how future air demand will be relaised?

No. SQ, QF...
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
BHD
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:07 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
SQ, QF, KE, ILFC and China Southern are some of the ones which have an order for both...

It's interesting that Airbus made a prediction of greater demand for bigger planes, and Boeing made a prediction of great demand for smaller aircraft but point to point. I guess airliners themselves are making a prediction that it will be a combination of such approaches that will drive the demand for air travel. While point to point may be popular, hub and spoke will remain huge, and there are some big hubs out there with some big 'spokes' requiring big planes.

Woody
 
UALMMFlyer
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:08 pm

Quoting BHD (Reply 7):
Damn, the VS order, todays AC announcement ,etc, etc, etc... too much for my nerves now, I will probabl crack if have to wait for the airshow

There is a mew thread just started with the news US is order between 20 to 30 787s in the coming days.
Treat others like you'd like to be treated!
 
AF086
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting Panamair:

(from the other thread)
the 787 will be "instrumental in introducing new routes like Bangkok, Melbourne, Rio, Seattle, Toronto, and Vancouver". Also, "both Perth and Hawaii are currently under consideration".

GIG and MEL are "to be introduced" for quite some time. Hope VS doesn't wait for the Dreamliners to do so.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
DIA
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting BHD (Reply 7):
Is VS the first airliner to order both 787 and A380

Already ansewered in reply #...which makes me post a similar question....

Is Singapore still the only airline to order both the 787 and A350? and, on a more detailed level, was the order 20 of each a/c?
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
boeing767-300
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting DIA (Reply 13):
Is Singapore still the only airline to order both the 787 and A350? and, on a more detailed level, was the order 20 of each a/c?

At this stage but then SQ have still not signed on the dotted line when they were going to in January.

Why have they not signed. maybe because of A346 and A380 issues SQs lawyers are driving very hard compensation clauses for performance and EIS issues. Airbus need to be sure about EIS and performance specifications are matching projections or Airbus will have a new round of claims that they can ill afford not to mention further damage to their already mauled reputation.
 
CYatUK
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:03 am

It seems that Airbus (due to the later EIS of A350) did not even submit a bid to Virgin.

The following is taken from FlightGLobal.com

"Airbus chief operating officer for customers, John Leahy, said the Toulouse-based company had not even put in a proposal for the A350XWB to Virgin, which needs the new aircraft for service entry in 2011. The A350 is not available until 2014"

Clearly timing played the most important role here hence any references to "Superior product" etc are really not true.

Obviously this is a major problem for Airbus since any carrier that needs airplanes before 2014 will have to order the B787 as no other aircraft is available in that category.

Just for this reason alone I would expect BA to follow since their 767s and 747s are getting really old.
CY@Uk
 
deltadc9
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting CyatUK (Reply 15):
Clearly timing played the most important role here hence any references to "Superior product" etc are really not true.

That is a wishful leap that has no basis in reality. If Branson wanted to wait for a better plane, he would. It could just as easily be said that he does not believe the 350 is worth waiting for, so what the hell....

Quoting CyatUK (Reply 15):
767s and 747s are getting really old.

767 sort of, 744 not really.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
777way
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:43 am

The livery gets worse with no red engines, they should have stuck to this.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q59/collection3/untitled-3.jpg
 
CYatUK
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:52 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 16):
That is a wishful leap that has no basis in reality. If Branson wanted to wait for a better plane, he would. It could just as easily be said that he does not believe the 350 is worth waiting for, so what the hell....

Unless you work for Virgin or SRB I don't think you are correct saying that as we (including yourself) don't know exaclty what are Virgin's plans for the future and what is discussed behind closed doors regarding a possible expansion of network.

Increasing the fleet size in 2011 is becoming even more important after the Open Skies deal so Virgin really needed a plane sooner than later.
CY@Uk
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 17):
The livery gets worse with no red engines, they should have stuck to this.

The Boeing image assumes they will go with that grey paint to help improve the flow around the engine cowl. Honestly, IMO very few airlines will go for this unless they already have grey engines, and I doubt Boeing will force them to.
 
David_itl
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 16):
If Branson wanted to wait for a better plane, he would. It could just as easily be said that he does not believe the 350 is worth waiting for, so what the hell....

I imagine that VS may be waiting to see what numbers crop up for the A350 when Airbus contacts them. ....

Quoting Kalakaua (Reply 4):

Quoting Reuters.uk:
CHICAGO, April 24 (Reuters) - Virgin Atlantic [VA.UL] Chairman Sir Richard Branson said on Tuesday the British airline could still consider buying Airbus' A350 jet if it proved to be more fuel efficient than Boeing Co.'s (BA.N: Quote, Profile , Research) rival 787 Dreamliner.

__________

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 16):
767 sort of, 744 not really

The oldest 744s for BA date from 1989, so any anticipated A380 order now may lead to a delivery sometime around 2009/2001 i.e. 20 years usage. As for the 767s, they are slightly younger than the 744; I believe the youngest one was delivered in 1997

____________________

A 787 sized aircraft would be ideal starter aircraft for limited expansion of their MAN services away from their perceived "bucket and spade" orientation at present; if they really want to mean that they are green as their current train adverts imply, perhaps they could money where ther group's mouth is and offer services ex-UK regions on those routes which generate the largest feed from the regions?
 
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glideslope
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 14):
Why have they not signed. maybe because of A346 and A380 issues SQs lawyers are driving very hard compensation clauses for performance and EIS issues. Airbus need to be sure about EIS and performance specifications are matching projections or Airbus will have a new round of claims that they can ill afford not to mention further damage to their already mauled reputation.

Excellent point. What was that a few weeks ago? "LH pilots pleased with 380 flight characteristics. Performance looking good?"

IMO, things are not so rosy. I want to see real fuel burn numbers for climb out and cruise, weight, and headwinds from the LH proving flight.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
behramjee
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:32 am

Quoting BNE (Reply 3):

- VS have ordered 15 firm 789s
- VS have taken 8 x 789 Options
- VS Have taken 20 additional Purchase Rights on unspecified models of the 787

I was surprised at first seeing how big an order was placed for the B 789s by VS.

I have a strong feeling that some of these B 789s will be dry leased out to Virgin Nigeria and Virgin Blue to help fuel their international long haul expansion as well.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: VS Selects B787, Part 2

Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting AF086 (Reply 12):
gig and MEL are "to be introduced" for quite some time. Hope VS doesn't wait for the Dreamliners to do so

Well pointed ! They are the two last destinations from VS first "wish list" and now they joined the new list... i really hope to see VS birds on a regular basis in GIG and also MEL before they receive the 787's.

Felipe
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