Flying-Tiger
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US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:35 pm

Quote:
Airbus will receive another blow this week when US Airways ditches a $3.7 billion (£1.85 billion) order in favour of the aircraft manufacturer’s American rival, Boeing.

The Times understands that US Airways will announce an order for between 20 and 30 Boeing 787 Dreamliners within the next 48 hours. The deal will be worth between $3.2 and $4.9 billion at list prices.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...s/united_states/article1703031.ece

----------
This report clearly goes into the direct opposite direction of what ATWonline reported a couple of days ago - that US Airways stays with the A350 and takes additional A330s as stop-gaps. Guess this is a clear "wait-and-see" moment.
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eraugrad02
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:49 pm

Makes you wonder if they order the 737NG too with this order. Im hoping so.
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slz396
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:52 pm

Just a suggestion: they could always order BOTH....
 
keesje
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:55 pm

Objectively it would make sense IMO. If US wants to replace 767 the 787-8 is right sized providing additional growth.

Airbus decided to go for the A350-900 first, available from 2013 and being more 772 sized probably doesn´t fit US´ (domestic) requirements. The A350-800 from 2014 is probably to far away.

The A350 might have a chance if larger aircraft (333) need to be replaced by something faciltating growth.
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UALMMFlyer
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:56 pm

I just read the Time article and was hoping someone could post it here.

It is realy unexpected to me. I fly US often to Europe out of PHL, and have loved the way they utilized the A330 acrossed the pond. I had thought A350 would be a lock with US needing additional A330 to fill the capacity needs.

I can undersand the decision as I am not sold the A350's performance data yet; it is still a paper plane. I am quite surprised to read several comments in this forum making statements that A350 will exceed the performance of 777 when nothing has been put together, no wind tunnel test, etc. I am neutral on A vs. B, and I would have said same thing if immature statements were made on Boeing new planes.

A good win for Boeing if this is true, but remember Times also reported EK ordering 100 A350XWB last week, and we have not seen any indications since.

Also, if true, I can see the remaining US legacy carriers ordering 787. Now that half of the US legacy carriers have ordered 787 (CO, NW, US).
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Lumberton
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:05 pm

Frankly, I'll believe it when Doug Parker stands in front of the cameras and announces it; not until then. Given the facts that US is in a position to drive a killer deal, the fact that Airbus threw them a lifeline during bankruptcy, they enjoy a great relationship with Airbus as opposed to another OEM who blocked their takeover attempt of Delta, why would they order Boeing? How much sooner could they get the aircraft? Speaking as an armchair a.net CEO, this doesn't sound right....  boggled 
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XT6Wagon
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:12 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 5):
Frankly, I'll believe it when Doug Parker stands in front of the cameras and announces it; not until then

QFT

While it would be nice for boeing, and certainly possible... I'd lump this with wild rumor until proven just because its so much in the face of past history.
 
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par13del
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:15 pm

Amen brother, amen. Lumberton I really wish I could pick something out of your post to disagree with.
Bummer.
 
slz396
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:23 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 5):
Given the facts that US is in a position to drive a killer deal, the fact that Airbus threw them a lifeline during bankruptcy, they enjoy a great relationship with Airbus as opposed to another OEM who blocked their takeover attempt of Delta, why would they order Boeing?

Although I am not a strong believer in the theory that airlines are lead in their fleet renewal decisions based on 'strong' relationships with manufacturers alone, I would find it proof of poor class to bite off the hand that has fed you when you were starving to dead... If it happened to you once, it can happen again and it's always good to know you have a powerful friend around to help you out.

Does that exclude a 787 order? Not al all...
Does it mean a 787 order must automatically mean the end of their A350 order? Not at all either.

It would be interesting to learn whether Timesonline has heard through the grape vines US is to order 787s and has concluded themselves they will thus cancel the A350, or whether the full story as reported by them is correct, because as was noticed, the latter does contradict with a recent report in ATWonline (which is generally a very reliable source of information).

[Edited 2007-04-25 12:27:33]
 
PM
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:00 pm

Quoting UALMMFlyer (Reply 4):
Also, if true, I can see the remaining US legacy carriers ordering 787. Now that half of the US legacy carriers have ordered 787 (CO, NW, US)

For what it's worth, that didn't happen with the 777... Moreover, I still have a mental picture of the A350 in UA colors that I can't shake off.

Could this be an example of a popular A.Net myth in reverse? Airlines are often accused of courting Airbus simply to drive down the price of Boeings. Might it work just as well the other way?

Certainly, this would be a bigger blow to Airbus than VS and I'd expect Leahy & Co. to pull out every trick they had to keep US on board.

That said...

The way the tide is flowing cannot be misinterpreted. I'm calling this one in favour of Boeing.
 
boeing767-300
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:07 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 5):
Frankly, I'll believe it when Doug Parker stands in front of the cameras and announces it; not until then.

I believe it is still more than likely that US will go A350 here. The problem here is whatever happens here the big loser will be Airbus. I suspect that despite Airbus 'helping' US recently with loans etc US are too willing to use the media and the 'threat' of 787 to SCREW airbus on price. Airbus are in a very desperate situation regarding A350 program. Boeing on the other hand is in a very strong position due to staggering 787 sales.

They are in a position to win Airbus customers outright through better product better price and earlier (just) delivery slots. If Airbus win this deal (believe they still will) it is yet another strategic sale not contributing much to the 10B developement costs. If Airbus miss out on this one it is yet another large slap from the marketplace.

Airbus are in a precarious position with A350 and the marketplace knows it and will take advantage. You may not like it buts thats how it appears to be  old 
 
boeing767-300
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:10 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 9):
That said...

The way the tide is flowing cannot be misinterpreted. I'm calling this one in favour of Boeing.

Well PM I would be suprised if it were Boeing  faint and it would be a massive blow to Airbus.

Do you think they will go GE or RR  goodvibes 
 
slz396
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:35 pm

Not that it is worth a discussion really, but just how can loosing a poorly paying customer be considered a massive blow?

Either one gets a massive blow from loosing a very profitable customer

or you are happy to dump an unprofitable deal in the backlog of your competitor.

The 2 together like you suggest... well... no comment really.
 
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:53 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 5):
Frankly, I'll believe it when Doug Parker stands in front of the cameras and announces it; not until then

I fully agree. I would love it if US came back to Boeing, but it is all speculation at this time. We will see what happens. Perhaps the 787 order will be tied into a massive discount for the 737-900ER.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Norcal773
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:53 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 12):
Not that it is worth a discussion really, but just how can loosing a poorly paying customer be considered a massive blow?

Either one gets a massive blow from loosing a very profitable customer

You're right, not worth much discussion coz that's gotta be the worst argument I've ever heard. You obviosly never worked in the marketing department anywhere.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 11):
Do you think they will go GE or RR

My vote goes to GE although it'll ony make PM age another 5 years in one month.  biggrin 
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funflyer
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:03 pm

US is going to buy 20-30 787's at least thats the email going around here.
Who cares about status?
 
PM
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:12 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 12):
Not that it is worth a discussion really, but just how can loosing a poorly paying customer be considered a massive blow?

"Poorly paying"? You mean the likes of US pay less than a plane's worth? I don't get it.

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 14):
My vote goes to GE although it'll ony make PM age another 5 years in one month.

Great. Just when I was getting over the QF shock!  Sad
 
Lumberton
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:17 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 12):
Not that it is worth a discussion really, but just how can loosing a poorly paying customer be considered a massive blow?

Just for the sake of argument, would it be better to gain a massive order by discounting almost to the quick?
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DAYflyer
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:27 pm

I thought this was interesting:

Part of Airbus’s problem with the A350 is that it has only just left the drawing board, while Boeing will fly the first 787 later this year. Airlines are opting to buy an aircraft that is reality rather than one that still only exists on paper.

It will be interesting to see it when announced about WHY they decided (if true) to drop the A-350XWB and opt for 787. I also wonder which story is correct: ATW or The Times??
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BWIA 772
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:27 pm

This is going to be interesting. Do you think that the 787 can get those 787 orders before it flies. I wonder what Paris is going to be like in terms of orders.

Regards
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slz396
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:27 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 16):
"Poorly paying"? You mean the likes of US pay less than a plane's worth? I don't get it.

I don't know, I am just repeating what Boeing767-300 said and pointing out it doesn't make much sense to talk about a big blow then really...

Anyway, I suppose it is a safe bet that the original A350 customers who are to be turned over to A350XWB customers probably aren't going to be the most lucrative deals for Airbus. Knowing US are holding pretty early delivery slots which Airbus may market for more money today, I don't think Airbus will be very flexible when it comes to giving them additional concessions, especially not when the Timesonline reports are true and QR and EK are both going to sign for the A350XWB. And even without EK, Airbus probably can make more money out of each of the US A350XWB slots by offering them to new customers, who will pay WXB prices rather than non-XWB prices

This leads to just another theory:
Knowing US decided (according to ATWonline) they were going to stick with the A350 (at the previously agreed price) and also wanted A330s as interim lift (probably also at low prices), it isn't unlikely Airbus thought this was a bridge too far and has basically shown US the door in pretty much the same way as they worked out UPS when they wanted to get their hands back on those 10 slots they held for the A380F to cope with delays....
In which case 'massive blow' may not be the correct wording really.
 
jfk777
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:33 pm

Whatever US AIR does, it should decide and stop talking about it. They need Asia airplanes and Phoenix to FRA airplanes. What they have now doesn't fit either requirement. A330 are great from PHL and CLT to Europe, while that is US international task now, they are range challenged for future flight to China and Arizona to Asia or Europe.
 
slz396
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:35 pm

Well aren't they getting A340-500s for that, JFK777?
 
boeing767-300
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 12):
Not that it is worth a discussion really, but just how can loosing a poorly paying customer be considered a massive blow?

Either one gets a massive blow from loosing a very profitable customer

I think you have missed the Point here which is this is Airbuses order to lose. Airbus should reasonably expect US to purchase A350.

Howerever it would seem that US are willing to use Boeing to 'screw' Airbus on price. They are willing to exploit Airbuses weak position in the mid sized widebody market despite Airbuses recent finacial assistance

I don't think Boeing will fret too much if Airbus retain the A350 order because they would have driven the 'real value' in profit terms of the order.

Then again if Boeing win this order they can absorb the cost of a cut throat fight far better and at the same time strike a major blow or coup by getting US as well as VS on board in short order.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 12):
The 2 together like you suggest... well... no comment really.

No comment. I think you are beginning to realise how dire Airbuses position is presently. especially if they sign for 787.

What was that about the year of the A350XWB? When was SQ going to sign up for the XWB. I think airlines are sick of the talk and are waiting for design freeze and specifications as well as a concrete EIS all of which given the last two years is a little bit airey fairy to say the least.
 
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Stitch
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:45 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
Objectively it would make sense IMO. If US wants to replace 767 the 787-8 is right sized providing additional growth.

Airbus decided to go for the A350-900 first, available from 2013 and being more 772 sized probably doesn´t fit US´ (domestic) requirements. The A350-800 from 2014 is probably to far away.

The A350 might have a chance if larger aircraft (333) need to be replaced by something faciltating growth.

US does not (to my knowledge) fly their widebodies domestically. I believe they solely serve non-stop international routes. And with US taking new A330s and even A345s over the next few years, I believe they could wait for the A350XWB-800 if they believe it is the better choice.

And the 787-9 nicely covers the A343 mission profile (VS ordered them specifically for that reason), so if US does take the 787-8, the 787-9 would be a natural choice for fleet expansion and eventual replacement for their A333s down the road.
 
slz396
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:51 pm

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 23):
I think you have missed the Point here which is this is Airbuses order to lose

You may leave the capital of that word, because your 'point' is very week really, because to put is is simple wording:

What you are saying is that a US order for A350XWBs is worth nothing, but a cancellation would be a drama...

You just can't have it both ways.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 23):
I think you are beginning to realise how dire Airbuses position is presently. especially if they sign for 787.

Not at all. It will free up a lot of blocked slots, which Airbus will have no problem filling... at XWB prices this time.

If the reports of QR and EK are true, then Airbus may need a lot of early A350 slots and might even be actively working US and some others out....

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 23):
What was that about the year of the A350XWB? When was SQ going to sign up for the XWB. I think airlines are sick of the talk and are waiting for design freeze and specifications as well as a concrete EIS all of which given the last two years is a little bit airey fairy to say the least.

Loosing your patience, so it seems.... Paris is still 51 days away though, so a bit more of your patience.
 
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:53 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 18):
I thought this was interesting:

Part of Airbus’s problem with the A350 is that it has only just left the drawing board, while Boeing will fly the first 787 later this year. Airlines are opting to buy an aircraft that is reality rather than one that still only exists on paper.

It will be interesting to see it when announced about WHY they decided (if true) to drop the A-350XWB and opt for 787. I also wonder which story is correct: ATW or The Times??

*IF* the Times version is correct, this would be the first defection of the original A350-not-XWB customers.

I can imagine customers are also concerned about exactly how Airbus is going to raise the funds to build the XWB, and exactly what partners are going to get on board the project, and what political fallout there will be if the XWB is outsourced to the same degree as 787 is. Airbus has a long way to go before the first XWB composites hit the autoclaves.
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airbazar
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:59 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 18):
It will be interesting to see it when announced about WHY they decided (if true) to drop the A-350XWB and opt for 787.

They never signed on to the XWB. This is why I asked a few days ago, in the 30 787 UFO thread, which of the original A350 airlines have not confirmed their orders for the XWB. That should give you a hint as to who those 30 UFO orders belong to. The A350XWB is a new aircraft that will fly nearly 3 years later than the original A350. That nullifies any agreement that was originally made for the A350. Airlines are businesses that need to survive in a very competitive environment. They can't just wait around until Airbus makes up their mind. Airbus is not going to come out and pull them out of bankrupcy. They helped them once out of their own (AB) interest, not out charity.
 
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Stitch
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:03 pm

US doesn't need Boeing to pressure Airbus on the price. This same periodical suggested last week that Airbus was selling the A350XWB-800 and -900 for the same discounted price as the 787-8 and was also giving free planes if you bought in lots of 100. If true, that should be more then sufficient for US to stick with it, no matter when it enters service.

If US does go to the 787, it may very well be the case that the 787 is now a "known entity", even if #001 has yet to be assembled, much less take to the skies and completed her test and performance benchmarking regimen.

And this would not be because of blind faith in Boeing "always under-promising and over-delivering". If that was the case, we'd see a lot more 767-400ER and 747-8I orders on the books right now...

No, it is because Boeing has proven to the satisfaction of almost 50 carriers sufficient performance simulations for them to order almost 600. Either that or Boeing has given every one of them carte-blanche to sue them up the bum or cancel without penalty if the 787 isn't everything those simulations claim. And while that might very well be true for some of these later orders, remember many of them were placed before the A388 program encountered rocks and shoals...

And that is the biggest current threat to the A350XWB. "A bird on the tarmac is worth two on the drawing board", so to speak.

Yet, before Boeing Boosters crow to loudly, temper that enthusiasm with the knowledge that five years or so from now, Airbus will be in the same position with the A350XWB vs. Y3.  Wink
 
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:14 pm

There have been so many conflicting reports that I've come to the conclusion, I'll believe it when it's finally announced.
I would love to see US order the B787... It would certainly be a coup for the sales staff at Boeing. I never thought that the Airbus investment made with US while in bankruptcy would force them to take the A350, version 1 or 2, whatever it was at the time. I got the feeling they committed to it without a great deal of enthusiasm.

If this pans out, I might despise that airline a little less then I do now.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 28):
Yet, before Boeing Boosters crow to loudly, temper that enthusiasm with the knowledge that five years or so from now, Airbus will be in the same position with the A350XWB vs. Y3.

Being one of those that unabashedly falls into that category, I've read a report just published by Morgan Stanley, posted on the Leeham Co. website predicts that Boeing is already to revamp the 777 line up to meet the challenge of the A350XWB.
They seem to suggest that the revamps will make the 777 design competitive with the new Airbus product. Should be fun to watch.

http://www.leeham.net/


NOTE: Edited for additional comments.

[Edited 2007-04-25 15:44:21]
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LuisKMIA
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:11 pm

I love Boeing, but didn't Airbus essentially bail US Air out of financial trouble? I'd be vary surprised...

Luis
KMIA
 
Ward86IND
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:27 pm

Great to see US go Boeing again. Hopefully they also order the 737-900ER also. As big of a Boeing fan I am, gotta feel for Airbus too, they kinda got screwed. At least they are still taking more A330s, and perhaps there is a large A321 order coming to make it up to Airbus. If the A350 and 787 were the same plane and available at the same time at the same price, I'm sure they would have stuck with the A350. Unfortunately for Airbus that is not the case.
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etops1
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:30 pm

love Boeing, but didn't Airbus essentially bail US Air out of financial trouble? I'd be vary surprised...

Luis
KMIA

that was the old management . this new management has no ties to airbus so they can go wich ever way they want. it's all about the cost and it looks like boeing came up with a better deal.
 
airbazar
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:34 pm

Quoting LuisKMIA (Reply 30):
I love Boeing, but didn't Airbus essentially bail US Air out of financial trouble? I'd be vary surprised...

If Airbus hadn't done it, someone else would have done it. Airbus was just looking up for Airbus and nothing else. They saw an opportunity to sell their A350 to an American carrier. Business as usual. If US now decided to go with the 787 it will also be all about business and what is best for US.
 
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:35 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 12):
Not that it is worth a discussion really, but just how can loosing a poorly paying customer be considered a massive blow?

Because they are one of two carriers that use Airbus widebodies in the United States, the most lucrative market for airplanes in the world. Because they are the only one of the two who hasn't already ordered the 787.

That being said, I will be very very shocked if this is true. Airbus still has 90MM on the original "loan" that they gave US in bankruptcy, and BA screwed US over (indirectly at least) when DL shut down the US bid. Either this report is wrong, or Boeing has decided to go for Airbus's jugular. If the latter, expect to hear that EK and QR have also delayed their order decisions to look at what BA may be offering to kill the 350XWB in it's crib.
 
Rbgso
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:43 pm

Perhaps US got wind the the prices EK was getting for their A350s and requested the same deal. AIrbus may have said no, and US took a walk. Happens in business all the time.
 
LGA777
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting LuisKMIA (Reply 30):
I love Boeing, but didn't Airbus essentially bail US Air out of financial trouble? I'd be vary surprised...

As I have said in earlier posts. The Airbus loan that was just a part of the US bailout was paid off in full in 2006, several years early, at MILLIONS of dollars PROFIT to Airbus in interest. This was a very good business deal for Airbus. If the new US order goes ALL Boeing, US still has 10 A-330-200 and 37 A-321's on order that should not be affected. This is still a LOT of new US frames for Airbus to build. How many of Airbusses current customers actually have 47 new aircraft on firm order ? If the deal goes all Boeing don't feel sorry for Airbus. They will still have a great former, present, and future customer in US Airways ! And remember, IT's BUISNESS !

Regards

LGA777
 
airtran737
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:48 pm

Looks like the rumor is gaining a bit of momentum. CNBC is now carrying the story as well.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/18305093

[Edited 2007-04-25 16:55:04]
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:54 pm

I'd go with ATWonline on this one simply for the fact that its staff does aviation reporting for a living and knows what they are doing. Historically it's been fairly reliable in its report. Furthermore retaining the deal for A350XWB seems more sensible for US Airways both financially and in terms of interim lift. I could be wrong, though.
 
Flighty
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:57 pm

I guess this means US won't be getting A330-200s after all. It never did make sense to take 332s in 2009 when they could just get 787s instead, which are 1 gen newer. So that is what they will do... cancel the 332/359/321 order and go Boeing for all of it. My 2c.
 
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:12 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 5):
as opposed to another OEM who blocked their takeover attempt of Delta

These are not schoolchildren, this is big business, and what have you done for me lately extends to the previous quarter only. Whatever is best for the shareholders is what will happen.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8):
I would find it proof of poor class to bite off the hand that has fed you when you were starving to dead..

See above.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 23):
Airbus should reasonably expect US to purchase A350.

If they expect airlines to buy based on a financial transaction that happend in the past that could have been serviced by others then they deserve what they get. Getting there first with the checkbook is really no big deal. US USED Airbus, got what they needed, and this is a new day. Airbus' mismanagement of the 350 project lost this sale if it is lost, they have only themselves to blame if US buys Boeing.

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 29):
They seem to suggest that the revamps will make the 777 design competitive with the new Airbus product.

I wonder why so many think Boeing is incapable of improving the 777?
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Stitch
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 40):
I wonder why so many think Boeing is incapable of improving the 777?

It's not a matter of improving the 777. It's a matter of improving it 25% [or more] if the A350XWB really does meet the design goals Airbus is hoping to meet.

I just don't see that happening, frankly.
 
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:56 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 8):
Although I am not a strong believer in the theory that airlines are lead in their fleet renewal decisions based on 'strong' relationships with manufacturers alone, I would find it proof of poor class to bite off the hand that has fed you when you were starving to dead... If it happened to you once, it can happen again and it's always good to know you have a powerful friend around to help you out.

If you save someone from a fire, then it would be understandable to "expect" a reasonable amount of gratitude. In the Airbus/US case, that was called "interest". To go beyond that, and expect them to be a slave to you, even when you change your mind and/or break your promises, to me seems a stretch too far.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 13):
Perhaps the 787 order will be tied into a massive discount for the 737-900ER.

Possible, but I would not be a bit surprised to see this as a split order. There was discussion of that $90M loan being "forgiven" and that may very well tie into a narrowbody decision.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):
Knowing US decided (according to ATWonline) they were going to stick with the A350 (at the previously agreed price) and also wanted A330s as interim lift (probably also at low prices), it isn't unlikely Airbus thought this was a bridge too far and has basically shown US the door

While I understand your point in regards to being able to sell the delivery positions to new customers, the fact that the new customers might appear to be getting fire-sale introductory pricing (i.e. the EK rumor) would lead me to believe that this is also a stretch.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 21):
Whatever US AIR does, it should decide and stop talking about it.

For what it's worth, US doesn't seem to be talking too much, at least not openly. And it isn't like this deal has been on the table for an unreasonable amount of time.

-Dave
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 39):
So that is what they will do... cancel the 332/359/321 order and go Boeing for all of it. My 2c.

US is not going to cancel their A321 orders. In fact, just recently they placed orders for an additional 15 (some converted, some new orders). The 332/350ABCXYZwhatever, I could see being canceled, most likely in favor of more A320 series aircraft, to both replace the classic 737s and provide for some additional growth in the Americas.
 
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 26):
*IF* the Times version is correct, this would be the first defection of the original A350-not-XWB customers.

I agree *IF*. Thanks for the correction about US potentially being the first non-XWB defector. They ordered the origianl A-350, version 2 IIRC.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 26):
I can imagine customers are also concerned about exactly how Airbus is going to raise the funds to build the XWB, and exactly what partners are going to get on board the project, and what political fallout there will be if the XWB is outsourced to the same degree as 787 is. Airbus has a long way to go before the first XWB composites hit the autoclaves.

Absolutely.
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TropicBird
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:08 am

Tomorrow US will report its first quarter earnings and they have previously said they will announce their aircraft orders by the end of April. There was a rumor going around they were ordering 787's and some 777's. They were also expected to announce their narrow body needs at the same time. Stay tuned.
 
n1786b
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
This report clearly goes into the direct opposite direction of what ATWonline reported a couple of days ago - that US Airways stays with the A350 and takes additional A330s as stop-gaps. Guess this is a clear "wait-and-see" moment.

They stepped back from the story:

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=8656

"This website also has learned that the 30 aircraft are the smaller 787-8s and that US Airways, assumed to be an eventual A350 customer, still may be in the market for the 787."

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 40):
I wonder why so many think Boeing is incapable of improving the 777?

That is EXACTLY what they were talking about during the earnings conference call today. And I'm sure we will be reading about it tomorrow.

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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:16 am


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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:22 am

From a business perspective it is also sound positioning for potential future mergers as the fleet will be more compatible with the others. Current receivers NWA/CAL future probable orders DAL/AA/UA
 
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RE: US Airways Reported To Switch To The B787

Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:41 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 41):
It's not a matter of improving the 777. It's a matter of improving it 25% [or more] if the A350XWB really does meet the design goals Airbus is hoping to meet.

I just don't see that happening, frankly.

Which don't you see happening--the 777 improving 25% or the A350XWB meeting its design goals?
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