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Coal
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When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:49 am

I just returned from a trip to the US, flying SQ Raffles to LA and back and US in Y to Miami and back, and I must say I was not only appalled by the service, but I also started to wonder when, not if, they get the boot from *A.

First off, they are now supposed to be modeled after an LCC, so I would imagine that, like IE in OW, the will get the boot.

The service from LAX to MIA (via CLT) was pretty much non-existing, although it was a red-eye, so that was excusable (I think?). On the return, I showed up 1 hr 45 mins before departure and I nearly missed my flight! There was only one check-in agent checking in people for about 4 flights and the other 2 or 3 agents were either standing around or "coordinating" the line for the e-check in. When I finally got called to the desk (more than an hour after standing in line), the agent could not find the reservation for the LAX-SIN leg in SQ, supposedly because SQ is not part of Star Alliance. I asked for the station manager, and was told they would not give that info to me. After raising my voice (and gaining some support from the passenger crowd), I was finally given her first name and was told she would be at the gate. Well, turns out she wasn't and now I'm just stuck with a post-it note with her first name and no way to file a complaint.

So back to my question: With this levels of service, when will US the boot? Is it possible to lure in CO to take their place?

Cheers,
Coal
Nxt Flts: MI RGN-SIN | SQ SIN-RGN-SIN | CX SIN-HKG-PVG | SQ PVG-SIN
 
EddieDude
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:33 am

Hey Steve, how are you? I hope you had a wonderful time in Florida... I sure did in Australia. We will have to compare notes later.

I am sorry your experience with US was so negative. I have only done MDW-CLT-MSY-CLT-MSY with them in 2004 and everything was fine (and I got to see CLT, which is a very nice airport), but I have read here constantly that their service is really inconsistent (but mostly bad). I too wonder how airlines of the likes of SQ, TG, NH and NZ permit a carrier with such a bad reputation to be a member of their alliance (doesn't invitation require a unanimous vote?).

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
like IE in OW

Make it EI. Yeah, I hear what you are saying. I think the answer to that has several sides. On one hand, it seems oneworld seems to have stricter standards than Star. On the other hand, perhaps I am mistaken, but didn't EI actually remove all traces of a premium-class cabin? I assume that this was the most important reason why they were kicked out. Finally, perhaps US does offer to Star important connections in the East Coast (which UA would not be able to offer), whereas EI did not offer much to its alliance. The "modelled after an LCC" thing may not be so much of an issue: I think part of DL's changes during its restructuring are to adopt some operating habits of LCC's to help keep costs down; nonetheless, DL remains a full-service carrier even if it has some LCC operational characteristics.

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
supposedly because SQ is not part of Star Alliance. I asked for the station manager, and was told they would not give that info to me.

Both situations are really unbelievable. It is appalling when you face this kind of replies from a customer service agent.

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
Is it possible to lure in CO to take their place?

Well, if UA is eventually able to merge with CO, as UA has many times attempted, we would see that. In the meantime, I don't think so... CO has a major alliance with NW and they need each other a lot. Moreover, I am sure CO is building a strong network of codeshare agreements with its SkyTeam partners. In any case, I hope CO does not switch teams because, even if I don't fly much with them, I do realize they are a big part of SkyTeam.
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Byrdluvs747
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
like IE in OW, the will get the boot.

EI didn't get the boot. They left to pursue their LCC strategy. I think it will prove to be a mistake.

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
I also started to wonder when, not if, they get the boot from *A.

When? What makes you so sure? US is in *A with UA's permission. Obviously, UA feels US' network is valuable enough to keep them in *A.

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
Is it possible to lure in CO to take their place?

Only in the event of a UA-CO merger.
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luv2fly
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:20 am

As long as they keep paying the required fees I really do not see anything changing anytime soon.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
JAL777
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:24 am

Since when was Star Alliance concerned with quality??? ::cough::United::cough::

[Edited 2007-04-26 02:24:39]
 
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Stitch
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:26 am

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
I just returned from a trip to the US, flying SQ Raffles to LA and back and US in Y to Miami and back, and I must say I was not only appalled by the service, but I also started to wonder when, not if, they get the boot from *A.

UA - and STAR - needs US presence in the NE and South. It was the reason UA wanted to acquire them back in 2000.

Frankly, it would be great if UA abandoned TED and just let US handle those routes so UA could concentrate on their mainline product and start improving it a bit more. As a UA elite, one gets benefits like Exit Row seating on US and use of their clubs (if an RCC member) as well as equivalent EQMs and RDMs as if flying UA/TED.
 
Flighty
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:51 am

Not every airline in Star is super great.

US has some reservation problems but eventually they will all be solved. If there is a sore spot at US, it is reservations integrity since they merged with America West. US Airways is running on beta software and they are working the bugs out, so to speak.

So I agree with you that US really seems clueless and inept to the untrained eye. But they are getting better.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:55 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
supposedly because SQ is not part of Star Alliance. I asked for the station manager, and was told they would not give that info to me.

Both situations are really unbelievable. It is appalling when you face this kind of replies from a customer service agent.

Especially when the names and logos of the star alliance members are usually on little plackards somewhere on the wall behind the check-in desk.
Good goes around!
 
united319
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting JAL777 (Reply 4):
Since when was Star Alliance concerned with quality??? ::cough::United::cough::

Id fly UA on an intra-asia route any day over ::cough::JAL::cough::  Wink
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LAXintl
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:05 am

This exact question was asked at the Apr 18th Crew News to Doug Parker by a pilot. Unfortunately Mr Parker failed to answer it and instead focused on other comments made by the pilot.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JAL777
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:17 am

Quoting United319 (Reply 8):

Id fly UA on an intra-asia route any day over ::cough::JAL::cough::

Sucks to be you, I'll be ANA.  Big grin
 
atlaaron
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:04 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 2):
Obviously, UA feels US' network is valuable enough to keep them in *A.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
UA - and STAR - needs US presence in the NE and South.

While I agree with you that UA and STAR need their presence in the NE and South, US before merging with America West did not compete with UA. Now they are major competition out west where United is tough. I don't think UA would mind that much to see them go.

Since I moved to the PIT area I have started flying US now and then, but people are right their service is awful. Reminds me of a ghetto in the sky.

It also really irritates me that you are supposed to be able to use upgrades across the Star alliance but you can't with US/UA . . . hmmmm.

I think the original poster might be onto something.
 
Boston92
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:43 am

Quoting JAL777 (Reply 4):
Since when was Star Alliance concerned with quality??? ::cough::United::cough::

Uhh, US does not compare to UA. UA belongs in the Star for one main reason. They ARE the Star Alliance.

Anyone who compares US to UA is crazy anyways.
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AA737-823
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:56 pm

I don't know the answer to your question, but I'll tell you one thing:

You keep your dirty mitts off my CO.

The flexibility of their being in WhyTeam is doing great things, IMO. I can fly NW DL or CO and still get treatment. And, being SkyTeam elite, I get my perks, too. With NW, anyway... Delta is kinda stingy on skyteam elite perks.


I have had only negative experiences on the NEW US, my roommate had a HORRIBLE experience last month, and two buddies of mine flew two separate flights during separate weeks... and both had unpleasant trips with this airline.

Needless to say, I am not a US fan.
 
ZRH
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:40 pm

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 12):
Uhh, US does not compare to UA. UA belongs in the Star for one main reason. They ARE the Star Alliance.

Not one airline IS the Star Alliance but if then it would be LH.
 
usairways85
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:05 pm

Also i thought one main factor was that US opened up the caribbean to Star. However it seems US has dropped a large portion of its network and while they still may serve as many destinations as the did a few years ago many of the flts have become weekend only.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:40 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
So I agree with you that US really seems clueless and inept to the untrained eye. But they are getting better.

US has a number of problems that go way beyond the surface and have really cropped up recently. Baggage handling at CLT, which was once spotless, is a good example.

I think US is the thing I'll miss least when I graduate from college in NC next month.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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OA260
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:16 pm

US Airways are definately the poor member of Star Alliance. I flew with them in F on US domestic and then Envoy trans atlantic which was a total discrace. Their cabins needs ripped out and a total new J class product with catering to match.

I have to say all my UA trans Atlantic flights in J have been great. Although ive only done 11 round trips with them they have been fine.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:26 pm

I didn't realize US had UA's permission to join star alliance. US has good service for the money. Sometimes US serves a destination one competitor doesn't. Yes US could improve the service but they should not be booted from star alliance.

MCOflyer
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USAF336TFS
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
So back to my question: With this levels of service, when will US the boot? Is it possible to lure in CO to take their place?

IMHO, whenever they get the boot from the Star Alliance, it will not be quick enough from for me. From the numerous bad experiences with US, it's apparent to me that their level of service, cramped seating and overall Customer Service does not meet the minimum standards set by the Star Alliance.

I wrote to Doug Parker a few weeks ago expressing my frustrations with flights that were cancelled without notifying passengers waiting at the gate, and other snafus when the latest ice storm hit the U.S. east coast last month.

Not surprisingly, he hasn't responded, nor do I think he has any intention of doing so. I plan on resending the letter, Certified this time, and copy in the Star Alliance Liaison here in New York at the Lufthansa North American headquarters. Perhaps that will get his attention...
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airbazar
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
I just returned from a trip to the US, flying SQ Raffles to LA and back and US in Y to Miami and back, and I must say I was not only appalled by the service, but I also started to wonder when, not if, they get the boot from *A.

Compared to SQ service, every US carrier has appaling service, especially on domestic flights. You wouldn't have found any significant different in service in economy from any other US carrier. Star Alliance needs a partner in the US and Caribbean. UA is a much smaller domestic carrier than US is.
 
cofannyc
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
but I also started to wonder when, not if, they get the boot from *A.

First off, they are now supposed to be modeled after an LCC, so I would imagine that, like IE in OW, the will get the boot.

I don't really see why, apart from your two bad flights, you would have a reason to think US will be kicked out of it's alliance. Do you have a copy of the *A carrier standards?

And Aer Lingus chose to leave oneworld. If they hadn't made the decision to leave, they would still be a oneworld carrier right now....they were certainly not kicked out.

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 19):
cramped seating and overall Customer Service does not meet the minimum standards set by the Star Alliance.

Cramped seating?

US domestic Y pitch ranges between 30" and 32".
UA domestic Y pitch ranges between 31" and 32".

US international Y pitch ranges between 31" and 32".
UA international Y pitch is 31" in all aircraft.

So I guess UA should be kicked out of *A too.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:44 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 20):
UA is a much smaller domestic carrier than US is.

By what measure? Certainly not flights or ASMs...
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 20):
Compared to SQ service, every US carrier has appaling service, especially on domestic flights. You wouldn't have found any significant different in service in economy from any other US carrier. Star Alliance needs a partner in the US and Caribbean. UA is a much smaller domestic carrier

With due respect, I disagree with you. I've flown CO in economy and I thought the level of service, seat pitch, and amenities were excellent. Flying U.S. domestic does not have to be an exercise in fitting a square peg in a round hole. You are quite right, SQ's level of service is considered among the best, but flying domestically, Contential's is quite good.
Their international service is also quite good. Their aircraft, clean, new and well maintained.

Quoting COFanNYC (Reply 21):
So I guess UA should be kicked out of *A too.

US Airway's A319 aircraft have very cramped seating. I've never flown UA's Airbus narrow-bodies so I can not fairly judge them. But I have experienced US and therefore my opinion. BTW, UA is a founding member. Doug Parker and his boys at America West bought their way into the Alliance. So your comparison losses credibility at that point, IMHO.

[Edited 2007-04-26 15:58:33]
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itsnotfinals
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:50 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
US Airways is running on beta software and they are working the bugs out, so to speak.

It's not "beta" software, it is the same Shares system HP has been using for many many years. The US east C/S agents pretty much tried everything they could not to learn it and when the cutover came, they had to figure it out quickly. The HP culture will hopefully spread accross the US East attitudes and improve the customer experience.

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 19):
it's apparent to me that their level of service, cramped seating and overall Customer Service does not meet the minimum standards set by the Star Alliance.

UA's customer service is deplorable. Try asking about your upgrade in LAX, ORD or SFO and just watch the sneers and disgust on the agents face, as if they are doing you a huge favor even talking to you.

UA and US are about the same at this point in the US. AC is improving.
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airbazar
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 23):
With due respect, I disagree with you. I've flown CO in economy and I thought the level of service, seat pitch, and amenities were excellent.

I respectfully disagree. There are differences but they are insignificant for the average traveler. 1 inch in seat pitch makes absolutely no difference to me. A sandwich is still a sandwich. And no one has PTV's, yet.
 
b777a340fan
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:57 pm

Quoting JAL777 (Reply 4):
Since when was Star Alliance concerned with quality??? ::cough::United::cough::

Since always, UAL, alongside AA and CO are perhaps the only american flagships that still care about customer service.... just my 2 cents.

Quoting United319 (Reply 8):
Id fly UA on an intra-asia route any day over ::cough::JAL::cough::

Me Too!!

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 12):
Uhh, US does not compare to UA. UA belongs in the Star for one main reason. They ARE the Star Alliance.

Anyone who compares US to UA is crazy anyways.

 checkmark 
 
cofannyc
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:04 pm

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 23):
BTW, UA is a founding member. Doug Parker and his boys at America West bought their way into the Alliance. So your comparison losses credibility at that point, IMHO.

So a founding member of an alliance has lower standards to live by than a full member that joined later? I guess I don't see how a factual comparison of seat pitches (in response to the cramped seating claim) losses credibility because UA is a founding member and US isn't.

If you've only flown on the USAirways A319:

United Airlines Airbus A319 (319) 31.0"
US Airways Airbus A319 (319) 30.0"
 
brilondon
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:05 pm

AC,UA,US all seem to have problems that start with the way they treat their customers. i had horrible experiences with each of these airlines ergo they should all be kicked out of star alliance.  laughing 
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ludavid777
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
Well, if UA is eventually able to merge with CO, as UA has many times attempted, we would see that.

It would be a complete disgrace if CO would ever merge with UA... and it would never happen for various reasons... but in the VERY UNLIKELY event it happened, I'm pretty sure the CO brand would stay and take over... their brand has high recognition, when it comes to service, quality, etc... and they are the largest US international carrier. Which means their name is well known internationally... besides the non-forgiving Latin American market that CO is such a big player in, would not be very accepting of the United name after all their sad attempts...

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 20):
Compared to SQ service, every US carrier has appaling service, especially on domestic flights. You wouldn't have found any significant different in service in economy from any other US carrier. Star Alliance needs a partner in the US and Caribbean. UA is a much smaller domestic carrier than US is.

CO you would... clean, new airplanes, meals, pillows and blankets, list goes on...  Smile
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting COFanNYC (Reply 27):
So a founding member of an alliance has lower standards to live by than a full member that joined later? I guess I don't see how a factual comparison of seat pitches (in response to the cramped seating claim) losses credibility because UA is a founding member and US isn't.

In the real world, yes.

Quoting COFanNYC (Reply 27):
If you've only flown on the USAirways A319:

United Airlines Airbus A319 (319) 31.0"
US Airways Airbus A319 (319) 30.0"

I'll avoid those aircraft in the future and either fly JetBlue or SouthWest. Thanks for the heads up.
336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting COFanNYC (Reply 27):
United Airlines Airbus A319 (319) 31.0"

Southwest and F9 have 33 inches and much less acerbic flight attendants. F9 has IFE.

UA is really nothing special domestically except for PS service to 3 cities.

I was forced to fly to Hawai'i on UA by my company 3 times and the coach and F I experienced were aweful.

Both CO and AA operate proper Business/First to Hawaii and Hawaiian literally kicked UA's tail.

HA has free food (3 choices in Coach) and a fantastic First, well worth the price of an upgrade.
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brilondon
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting COFanNYC (Reply 21):
Cramped seating?

US domestic Y pitch ranges between 30" and 32".
UA domestic Y pitch ranges between 31" and 32".

US international Y pitch ranges between 31" and 32".
UA international Y pitch is 31" in all aircraft.

So I guess UA should be kicked out of *A too.

The airlines have us all brain washed into thinking 32" is roomy. All airlines have cramped quarters and unless you are willing to pay through the nose for an upgrade or trade your miles in for the upgrade to the front of the aircraft.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
GlobalATL
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
US in Y to Miami and back, and I must say I was not only appalled by the service, but I also started to wonder when, not if, they get the boot from *A.



Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
So back to my question: With this levels of service, when will US the boot?

US Airways doesn't have service standards. They never seemed to ever have them. If they did leave STAR, who'd take them?? IMO, nobody would. I'm sorry to say, that I've too experienced the same low quality of service on a couple of trips back in the late '80s.

Where is PIEDMONT when you need them???????
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COEI2007
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:34 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 2):
Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
like IE in OW, the will get the boot.

EI didn't get the boot. They left to pursue their LCC strategy. I think it will prove to be a mistake.



Quoting COFanNYC (Reply 21):
And Aer Lingus chose to leave oneworld. If they hadn't made the decision to leave, they would still be a oneworld carrier right now....they were certainly not kicked out.

Thank you! EI was not kicked out. They left to pursue their LCC strategy on short-haul flights. I dont think tis a mistake, since they have a hub in DUB, which also happens to be FR, the largest Euro LCC's hub aswell. I think if EI didnt adopt a LCC strategy, they'd be gone now!

Quoting COFanNYC (Reply 21):
I don't really see why, apart from your two bad flights, you would have a reason to think US will be kicked out of it's alliance. Do you have a copy of the *A carrier standards?

Lets face it, legacies tend to suffer from inconsistency. I've flown CO numerous times, and the odd time you'll get a rude staff member, or crabby FA. The fact is, it happens in all airlines. US are trying to integrate HP, whilst trying to adapt to a market where DL are now leaner, and NW is cutting costs. Add in competition from CO, AA, B6 and a few others, and life aint easy for US.

Id say they were very close to collapse not soo long ago, after operating 3 hubs (PIT, CLT and PHL) all on the East, pretty unsuccesfully. They're finding their feet, expanding long-haul, and have started to improve service (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070426/lath049.html?.v=90).

Who knows, they may leave Star Alliance, but stating that they should leave based on a few bad flights is rediculous
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 34):
US are trying to integrate HP,

HP bought US, it's the other way around. HP staff are so much nicer in General than US, I am hoping that the NEW US gets a better reputation.
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captaink
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 6):
Not every airline in Star is super great.

 checkmark 

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 20):
Compared to SQ service, every US carrier has appaling service, especially on domestic flights. You wouldn't have found any significant different in service in economy from any other US carrier. Star Alliance needs a partner in the US and Caribbean. UA is a much smaller domestic carrier than US is.

 checkmark 

I have flown on a number of US legacy carriers except the the one that is supposed to be the best, CO. But on those I have flown, I found them all wanting. AA is by far the worse in my opinion, the flights are depressing. I haven't flown on US in years, but when I did, it wasn't too bad, though no by a long shot the best airline in the air.

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 23):
US Airway's A319 aircraft have very cramped seating. I've never flown UA's Airbus narrow-bodies so I can not fairly judge them. But I have experienced US and therefore my opinion. BTW, UA is a founding member. Doug Parker and his boys at America West bought their way into the Alliance. So your comparison losses credibility at that point, IMHO

Has Doug Parker added more seats on all the airplanes? The A330 had 34in pitch days gone by, the A319s, A320s, A321s, I don't remember the measurement but the seats seems comfortable. What's happened? What is happening at US?

P.S. People seem to be flying them as their profits soar.
There is something special about planes....
 
manfredj
Posts: 76
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:53 am

I'll start off with a quote in a previous post....in which I was scalded for my opinion:

I did, however, learn a few things. The industry is capable of making a profit, even a long term one. Here is the solution....AIRLINES NEED TO CHARGE CUSTOMERS FOR THE PRODUCT THEY ARE OFFERING, whatever that cost may be. If you want to see superior service, meals back on flights, happy well dressed flight attendants and clean aircraft, charge the customer for it. This is a simple theory and one that works. I would gladly pay 100.00 more dollars for a flight to see the things I once cherished in the 70's and 80's. Enough of this Wal Mart thoery of business. Give me a good product and I will proudly pay for it. Everyone needs to read Gordon Bethune's, "From Worst to First." This IS the way to run an airline. Until then, Long live Regulation.

Unfortunately, we here in the United States must conform to the people who complain and complain, then the media complains and compains until we make a service affordable to everyone.....hence the demise of the airline industry. We are reduced to sub par service in order to make up for the cheap fairs we offer. Long live Continental for refusing to bow down to such non-sense.
757: The last of the best
 
captaink
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting Manfredj (Reply 37):
I would gladly pay 100.00 more dollars for a flight to see the things I once cherished in the 70's and 80's.

But how many people would be willing to pay that 100.00 extra? People have gotten used to flying because it is now cheap, it makes no sense taking the bus or the train when an airplane costs the same of less. So something gotta give.

1. Expensive tickets, better service.
2. Cheap tickets, no service.

While it would be nice to have a meal on an airplane, I must admit I have gotten so used to not having it that my only expectaions on a flight these days, are comfortable seat, and that it is ontime.
There is something special about planes....
 
GlobalATL
Posts: 197
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 38):
But how many people would be willing to pay that 100.00 extra

The price of cars keeps going up; cars are bought daily.
The price of homes keeps skyrocketing and yet homes still get bought
The price of gasoline has skyrocketed.........u get my point.

If people must travel by air then they'll have to pay whatever the prices are at the time of booking.
By-and-large most airfares are competitive on same routes, with some exceptions.
So increase the price of airfares to a degree & within reason and people will/must pay the price
and things will help out the airlines bottom line, too. If they must travel by air what other choice do they have
but to pay the price?
TriStar BusinessElite FedEx AirTran Delta Air Lines oneworld SkyTeam JetBlue/jetBlue MAXjet SkyMiles Eos = good spelling
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting GlobalATL (Reply 39):
The price of homes keeps skyrocketing and yet homes still get bought
.........u get my point.

A house in Des Moines Iowa that is 165,000 costs 1.4 million in Laguna Beach, it's location driven. Supply and demand for the area. Same thing with Hotel pricing, etc. A seat from JFK to MCO a commodity.

I think the key thing is that for most of the traveling public, the flight is just a means to an end. Most people don't know what kind of plane they are on, the history of the airline, or what seat pitch is. For the vast majority of people on-time performance, no lost bags and a cheap flight are all they need to be happy.

I think it's also really sad that no one on A.net is appreciative of the absolutely fantastic safety record of the US and European airline industry. Arriving alive is the ultimate upgrade.

[Edited 2007-04-26 18:50:17]
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting GlobalATL (Reply 39):
The price of cars keeps going up; cars are bought daily.
The price of homes keeps skyrocketing and yet homes still get bought
The price of gasoline has skyrocketed.........u get my point.

If people must travel by air then they'll have to pay whatever the prices are at the time of booking.
By-and-large most airfares are competitive on same routes, with some exceptions.
So increase the price of airfares to a degree & within reason and people will/must pay the price
and things will help out the airlines bottom line, too. If they must travel by air what other choice do they have
but to pay the price?

Let me say that I agree with you and Manfredj to some point.

But in my opinion for airfares to go up, all the airlines would have to increase their airfares. But if you have the LCCs with low fares, eg WN, B6, people are going to flock to them service or not because they have lower fares. The majors are going to have to match the fares as they are doing now, but that would mean a drop in service levels.

Ideally everyone should raise their fares, and increase service levels. But how likely is WN to raise its fares and offer more perks, when their current model has brought them success? If they don't do it, we are not to expect the other LCCs to do it, and as result the legacies would continue matching these low fares and we will not see better service levels in the air.
There is something special about planes....
 
airbazar
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 38):
But how many people would be willing to pay that 100.00 extra? People have gotten used to flying because it is now cheap, it makes no sense taking the bus or the train when an airplane costs the same of less. So something gotta give.

You're asking the wrong question. You need to ask how many of those passengers are airlines willing to transport?
The Legacy carriers are still stuck in the model that they have to be everything to everyone. That's a unsustainable business practive and as a result we have a revolving door of bankrupcies and poor service. Each airline needs to pick it's niche and build their business around it. Some should cater to those that value cheap fares over everything else, others should cater to those that value service over fares. Until they learn to accept this new reality, there's no way out of mediocrity.
 
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Coal
Topic Author
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting Manfredj (Reply 37):
I did, however, learn a few things. The industry is capable of making a profit, even a long term one. Here is the solution....AIRLINES NEED TO CHARGE CUSTOMERS FOR THE PRODUCT THEY ARE OFFERING, whatever that cost may be. If you want to see superior service, meals back on flights, happy well dressed flight attendants and clean aircraft, charge the customer for it. This is a simple theory and one that works. I would gladly pay 100.00 more dollars for a flight to see the things I once cherished in the 70's and 80's. Enough of this Wal Mart thoery of business. Give me a good product and I will proudly pay for it. Everyone needs to read Gordon Bethune's, "From Worst to First." This IS the way to run an airline. Until then, Long live Regulation.

 checkmark  Amen!

Quoting Captaink (Reply 38):
But how many people would be willing to pay that 100.00 extra? People have gotten used to flying because it is now cheap, it makes no sense taking the bus or the train when an airplane costs the same of less. So something gotta give.

F*ck 'em. Let them take the train. Perhaps this way we can save the US airline industry as well as Amtrak.

Btw, how did Continental get so good?

Cheers,
Coal
Nxt Flts: MI RGN-SIN | SQ SIN-RGN-SIN | CX SIN-HKG-PVG | SQ PVG-SIN
 
caetravlr
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:58 am

I am not sure if US will ever be booted from *A or not, or even if they should be, but they are certainly not the airline that UA is.

I commute to and from my client site on UA just about every week going CAE - IAD - DEN - RNO going out and usually RNO - SFO - IAD - CAE returning. Last week I unfortunately had to fly US and went CAE - CLT - PHX - RNO and RNO - CLT - PHX - CAE coming back. I was fortunate enough to be able to use my status to get exit row seating on the PHX-RNO and RNO-PHX legs, and even got upgraded to first class on my CLT-PHX and PHX-CLT legs of the trip. That being said, while first class on US certainly has more room that economy on UA, the seats aren't quite as comfortable. For me, just the fact that UA has adjustable headrests, even in economy, which helps me sleep better especially since my return trip always involves a red-eye, is enough to keep me loyal to UA over US. However, it was nice having that *A option of US as an alternative when I couldn't get my usual flights on UA for one of the trips. The other thing that I guess I like better is that I can usually get J class upgrades on my IAD - DEN leg every time I come out on the 777, which is VERY nice.

My point is, US does offer some value to the Star Alliance flying out of the southeast, and that is why they are a member, and why people fly them. However, their level of service is still inferior to the level of service offered by UA in my opinion. Also, I did notice that the computer glitches are still being worked out, and watching a couple of the US flights board, including the ones that I was on was definitely an exercise in semi-controlled chaos. I hope they are able to work out some of those glitches, and up the level of service from a CSR standpoint in the near future, but I don't think they will ever be my first choice when I have to go somewhere.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
bimmerkid19
Posts: 284
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting United319 (Reply 8):
Id fly UA on an intra-asia route any day over ::cough::JAL::cough::

I´d rather fly on KE on an intra-asia route any day over ::cough::NW::cough::  Wink
Last flights: LH 3738 MUC - ZRH , LH 3749 ZRH - MUC . Upcoming: EK 50 MUC - DXB 3-aug. and EK 322 DXB - ICN 7- Aug.
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
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RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:37 am

Looks like they got the memo and are going to prove the A.net CEO's wrong  Smile LOL
Another US Carrier To Upgrade Cabins... (by ATLflyer Apr 26 2007 in Civil Aviation)
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 43):
F*ck 'em. Let them take the train. Perhaps this way we can save the US airline industry as well as Amtrak.

HAHA.. Right on.. I am with you on that.. Big grin

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 46):
Looks like they got the memo and are going to prove the A.net CEO's wrong Smile LOL

The conincidence of that was just weird... Big grin
There is something special about planes....
 
super80
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:49 am

RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting Ludavid777 (Reply 29):
It would be a complete disgrace if CO would ever merge with UA... and it would never happen for various reasons... but in the VERY UNLIKELY event it happened, I'm pretty sure the CO brand would stay and take over... their brand has high recognition, when it comes to service, quality, etc... and they are the largest US international carrier. Which means their name is well known internationally... besides the non-forgiving Latin American market that CO is such a big player in, would not be very accepting of the United name after all their sad attempts...

Correct me if I am wrong / Doesn't DELTA serve a couple more international destinations than CO ? As far as I know, even if Delta CURRENTLY does not serve as many as CO does, they will in the near future (just look at all those routes in May and June + Lagos in DEC)

And having the most international destinations does not mean the name of the airlines is well known internationally...
IMHO, I still think that the UNITED brand is more well known Worldwide than Continental , no ?
 
walter747
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:49 am

RE: When Will US Get The Boot From Star Alliance?

Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:51 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 41):
Looks like they got the memo and are going to prove the A.net CEO's wrong Smile LOL

Another US Carrier To Upgrade Cabins... (by ATLflyer Apr 26 2007 in Civil Aviation)

At least they are trying to improve.  Smile
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