AJMIA
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AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:32 pm

AA wants increased presence in Dominican Republic -- From USA Today
American Airlines wants to fly more routes from the Dominican Republic, according to Travel Weekly. The publication says AA filed an application with the Dominican Civil Aviation Board to begin several new routes starting July 1. Travel Weekly writes "the new routes include San Juan to Samana (in the Dominican Republic); Santo Domingo (in the Dominican Republic) to Port au Prince, Haiti; Santo Domingo to Curacao; and Santo Domingo to Caracas, Venezuela." If the Dominican government oks AA's application, an airline spokesman says the new routes would add more than 150,000 passengers per year to the Caribbean nation during AA's first year of operation.

Eagle has flown SDQ-SXM for quite a while now, and with the recently announced ANU-EIS flight, it looks like AA is interested in trying P2P in the Caribbean again.

Some earlier failures were CUR-AUA, STT-STX, and MAZ-SDQ, but this looks to be pretty ambitious...

AJMIA
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:00 pm

There is some discussion of this in the Caribbean thread. AA has also applied for SDQ-AUA.

Quoting AJMIA (Thread starter):
Some earlier failures were CUR-AUA, STT-STX, and MAZ-SDQ, but this looks to be pretty ambitious...

STT-STX wasn't a failure at all. STX raised landing fees by a ridiculous amount (more than doubled), and American Eagle ended the route, because with the new landing fees, the route was not viable. Not long after, the Virgin Island government arranged a short-term subsidy for American Eagle to resume the route, but it was not renewed.
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miaskies
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:11 pm

How does this affect the AA's long standing SJU Hub? Isn't one of the viable points of the SJU hub to connect traffic through there?

Also could AA's move perhaps be due to the knocking on the door of Air Europa's CEO's involvement in wanting to start a "Dominican National Airline" soon?
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md90fan
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting MIASkies (Reply 2):
How does this affect the AA's long standing SJU Hub? Isn't one of the viable points of the SJU hub to connect traffic through there?

It's just they are using aircraft with not much better to do to provide service on O&D heavy destinations from the Caribbean's second largest city. AA is the largest carrier with over 30 daily flights into the Dominican Republic, they should know what their doing  yes   checkmark 
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AJMIA
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:09 pm

Any idea which of these routes would be Eagle and which would be AA?

I can't imagine that SDQ-CCS would be an Eagle, but the other's could go either way.

AJMIA
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Avianca
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:14 pm

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 4):
I can't imagine that SDQ-CCS would be an Eagle, but the other's could go either way.

well why not, the flight time should be arround 1,5 hours to max 2 hours.

cheers
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md90fan
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 4):
Any idea which of these routes would be Eagle and which would be AA?

Right now, PAP is looking at being 2 dailies with the AT7.

We discussed this in depth Here
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Xkorpyoh
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting MIASkies (Reply 2):
so could AA's move perhaps be due to the knocking on the door of Air Europa's CEO's involvement in wanting to start a "Dominican National Airline" soon?

It sounds like it. AA seems to have some much persuasive power in the D.R. with the airport authorities and the government. It would really hurt to see the government give all those authorities to a foreign carrier when there are attempts to re-start a national carrier.

As for SDQ-PAP on an ATR, sounds they are going to be running special flights just to carry the luggage. Haitians go to SDQ to shop and come back with the whole store to check it in, and don't want to pay for excess charges.

So AA is the first one in the new Samana airport. The only airport they are missing in the island is Barahona. I guess that is the only secret place to visit now in the D.R.. Nice beaches with waves, high mountains, desert rocky islands with iguanas (like in Galapagos) and the largest lake in the caribbean below sea level with flamingos (like in the deserts in Chile). Sounds like a great place to develop eco-tourism now that Samana is going to become mass tourism too.
 
PRAirbus
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:38 pm

I doubt SDQ-CCS would be flown on Eagle since a few years ago Eagle tried to launch SJU-CCS flights and the idea was dropped and the AA757 service was re-instated. Perhaps SDQ-PAP would be flown on Am. Eagle's AT7 since SJU-PAP was flown on AT7 when it operated. SDQ-CUR not sure since Aeropostal flies MD80s I doubt AA/AE would try to compete using an ATR. Not sure why AA would launch SDQ-CUR since MIA-CUR flights are not usually very full...perhaps the yields are high on the CUR market(s). Launching flights from SDQ would not affect SJU as a hub since SJU has the largest US Customs facilities in the Caribbean, plenty of gates and a new terminal expansion going on for other carriers. SJU will always be an AA hub since there is a lot of traffic between SJU and the US for tourism, business and FVR trips. AA/AE presence is the largest in SJU and any other carrier they would not let that go and open the door for another airline. There are many Puertoricans that are AA Advantage members and loyal to AA's network.
 
Xkorpyoh
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:57 pm

SDQ is not meant to be a hub for AA but for O/D only
 
AA767400
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 7):
So AA is the first one in the new Samana airport.

Have not heard of this? Is it on AE from SJU?

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 7):
It sounds like it. AA seems to have some much persuasive power in the D.R. with the airport authorities and the government. It would really hurt to see the government give all those authorities to a foreign carrier when there are attempts to re-start a national carrier.

Re-starting a national carrier will/has been with foreign aid: (AirEuropa),(LAN), and (Aerocontinente).

AA/AE has been a long standing force in the Dominican Republic. Many others have joined in but AA still is what Dominicans think of when they travel. Especially on SDQ-SJU,SDQ-MIA, and SDQ-BOS, where it is pretty much a monopoly.
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Venezuela747
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:32 am

I wonder why they are trying to make SDQ like a mini-hub. They already have SJU.
It seems stupid to have two mini hubs that will pretty much feed the same places near each other.
Maybe soemone can show me the light here.
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:35 am

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 4):
Any idea which of these routes would be Eagle and which would be AA?

I can't imagine that SDQ-CCS would be an Eagle, but the other's could go either way.

They will all be Eagle.

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 7):

As for SDQ-PAP on an ATR, sounds they are going to be running special flights just to carry the luggage. Haitians go to SDQ to shop and come back with the whole store to check it in, and don't want to pay for excess charges.

The ATR has excellent cargo carrying capabailities. No special flights needed.

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 7):
The only airport they are missing in the island is Barahona.

They flew to BRX for a short time in 2001.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 10):
Have not heard of this? Is it on AE from SJU?

American Airlines is planning both ATR-72 service to San Juan and 737-800 from Miami to Samana.
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Eric777
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:13 pm

Quoting AJMIA (Thread starter):
and with the recently announced ANU-EIS flight

Can someone provide me with info on this? I don't see any announcement on AA's site.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting Venezuela747 (Reply 11):
I wonder why they are trying to make SDQ like a mini-hub. They already have SJU.
It seems stupid to have two mini hubs that will pretty much feed the same places near each other.
Maybe soemone can show me the light here.

They are not making a mini-hub. They are simply adding routes from SDQ to market with little or no service and high O&D demand.

Also, San Juan is not a minihub for American Airlines. It is a full hub operation.
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Chiguire
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting AJMIA (Thread starter):
and Santo Domingo to Caracas,

It might be that the Dominican authorities will authorize this service. But if it needs to be approved by Venezuelan INAC.....I doubt this will happen.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:50 am

I always thought that Santo Domingo would make a great focus city for American, and have said on occasion that a Caracas flight would make sense for America... though Port au Prince and Curaçao are a surprise.

I would have expected American to fly SDQ-CCS with a 737-800.
 
Avianca
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:55 am

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 15):
It might be that the Dominican authorities will authorize this service. But if it needs to be approved by Venezuelan INAC.....I doubt this will happen.

sadly true, US airlines have already problems to get rights on US-Venezuela flights (FLL-CCS for Spirit and MIA-VLN by American)
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B4REAL
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:11 pm

MAH4546:

Do you think AA could make GRU-SJU work? Dismiss the topic of route authorities, as if AA had more slots to Brazil from ANAC, MIA/JFK/DFW would get them, then maybe ORD. But, in my crackpipe dream world, a 757 could perform the route, and the smaller markets in the Caribbean (if there is a market for Caribbean to Brazil) could be better served than going through MIA possibly. Curious to your thoughts on the topic.
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BigGSFO
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:22 pm

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 18):
Do you think AA could make GRU-SJU work?

Interesting idea, although I would think EZE would work before GRU.
 
Avianca
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 19):
Interesting idea, although I would think EZE would work before GRU.

who big is the O&D to/ex SJU to GRU or EZE max 20 passengers per day... .? if yes that would explain all...
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B4REAL
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:31 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 19):
although I would think EZE would work before GRU.

I believe EZE/SCL/LIM/GRU/GIG could all be options. Then you could see routes all on the 757 like SJU/SSA/BSB/ASY/MVD/ASU. I picked GRU because it is such a large market. We have SJU-CCS, so it is proven that flights to South America can work on AA from SJU.

I'm thinking there needs to be a basis of strong O&D (MIA as an example) or tremendous feed (DFW has great feed). This is where MAH will confirm I'm crazy or just a crafty thinker.
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BigGSFO
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 21):
This is where MAH will confirm I'm crazy or just a crafty thinker.

Maybe you are a little bit of both.  Smile

Indeed I agree with you: EZE/LIM et al in addition to SJO/PTY/CUN/MEX-SJU appear, at least to me (without knowing the numbers) to be a viable markets. I also wonder if SJU-GEO/CAY/PMB could work...if so (and assuming AA returns to ASU), that would put AA in every South American country.
 
B4REAL
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:44 pm

I mean, the real reason I bring this up is feed. MIA has service to a lot of cities in the US - but so does SJU. SJU also serves a lot of the smaller Caribbean markets and there is, at least in Brazil, a heritage/history of cultures overlapping between the Caribbean and Brazilian cultures.

GRU is a strong enough destination O&D-wise from MIA, so to build feed on it may hurt the O&D - and 3 flights a day by AA will always do well, I'm sure AA would like more. SJU could feed, but be on the 757 craft and still do the overnight flights as well.
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Avianca
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:44 pm

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 21):
We have SJU-CCS, so it is proven that flights to South America can work on AA from SJU.

I think it is a total different market, + SJU is used for lower yield conections ex CCS to many US destinations via SJU... indeed they have a good mix as a direct ticket CCS-SJU is very very expensive (promos are around 450 USD for an internacional flight....
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B4REAL
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:47 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 24):
I think it is a total different market, + SJU is used for lower yield conections ex CCS to many US destinations via SJU...

How would that be different? That's exactly what I'm proposing. GRU-SJU-Continental US destinations.
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Avianca
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 25):
How would that be different? That's exactly what I'm proposing. GRU-SJU-Continental US destinations.

that CCS has at least a certain O&D market for the route, I have my doubts with GRU, EZE etc...
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B4REAL
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 26):
that CCS has at least a certain O&D market for the route, I have my doubts with GRU, EZE etc...

If considering BRAZIL-SJU, I think there would be a "CertainO&D market for the route" as you explain. JJ codeshares and the generally big Brazil market may make it worthwhile. Still hoping MAH4546 pipes in...
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:41 am

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 18):
Do you think AA could make GRU-SJU work?

No, it would not. Too thin. You'd see SJU-EZE first, and you still aren't going to see SJU-EZE.

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 21):
We have SJU-CCS, so it is proven that flights to South America can work on AA from SJU.

San Juan-Caracas has significant local traffic. Other markets do not. I think San Juan-Bogota would work, as well as San Juan-Panama City and San Juan-Cancun. Not much else, though.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 24):
SJU is used for lower yield conections ex CCS to many US destinations via SJU...

Dallas is used for low-yielding connections. San Juan-Caracas, as I mentioned, has strong local demand. Also, Venezuelans love to travel in the Caribbean, and AA provides them with easy connections throughout the region. Very little of AA's CCS-SJU traffic connects to the mainland. The only mainland destination that sees significant connecting traffic from the flight is FLL.
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aa1818
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:02 am

Given the expansion of AA in SDQ; is there any chance that AA will link SDQ with the Caribbean islands? ANU, BGI, POS??? I know there is certainly a market for POS-SDQ, and I believe 8B used to operate ANU-SDQ (i stand to be corrected), so I wasn't sure whether AA would look into those flights??

AA1818
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AJMIA
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:46 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
Very little of AA's CCS-SJU traffic connects to the mainland. The only mainland destination that sees significant connecting traffic from the flight is FLL.

We put a ton of people thru MIA-SJU-CCS when the nonstops are full. Also the more price sensitive passengers can usually find a better deal via SJU when the lower fare buckets are full on the nonstops.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 29):
Given the expansion of AA in SDQ; is there any chance that AA will link SDQ with the Caribbean islands? ANU, BGI, POS??? I know there is certainly a market for POS-SDQ, and I believe 8B used to operate ANU-SDQ (i stand to be corrected), so I wasn't sure whether AA would look into those flights??

I imagine if these flights work you will see more AA P2P in the Caribbean. Even if the flights are only marginally profitable it will help AA increase their market share on flights between the USA and the Caribbean.

The new ANU-EIS flight should have been loaded into Sabre today.

AJMIA
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AA767400
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:03 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
I think San Juan-Bogota would work, as well as San Juan-Panama City and San Juan-Cancun.

SJU-BOG would work for sure. AV got rid of it's flight in the mid 90s. At one point it was routed with a 762 BOG-SJU-FRA.

SJU-CUN is interesting because MX had this flight in the 90s as well. MEX-CUN-SJU 320 service, as well as non-stop. Rumor has it that they are looking to return to SJU.

I also remember reading about AR starting a sunday only service routing EZE-SJU-MIA, but never heard anything else about it.

[Edited 2007-04-30 05:17:35]
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A388
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:34 pm

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 8):
Not sure why AA would launch SDQ-CUR since MIA-CUR flights are not usually very full...perhaps the yields are high on the CUR market(s).

AA is doing pretty well on the MIA-CUR-MIA route as we get two daily flights with good loads throughout the year and high yields. MAH4546 knows more when it comes down to AA's MIA hub  Smile

Show us the way MAH4546 Big grin

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miaskies
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:19 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
San Juan-Panama City

Doesn't Copa Serve SJU-Panama City already? I have seen pics of their 737's and 190's on here.
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md90fan
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RE: AA Applies For SDQ-PAP/CCS/CUR

Tue May 01, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting MIASkies (Reply 33):
Doesn't Copa Serve SJU-Panama City already? I have seen pics of their 737's and 190's on here.

Two daily E-90s.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 29):
is there any chance that AA will link SDQ with the Caribbean islands?

They already have begun, SDQ-SXM is an example.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 29):
so I wasn't sure whether AA would look into those flights??

Yes, as the ATR fleet is one of the only types in the AA not fleet not 100% utilized

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