United Airline
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VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:46 pm

Does VS still have plans to start a second daily LHR-HKG flight? Or has the plan been cancelled?

How is SYD-HKG doing? I suppose it's doing well right?
 
CV580Freak
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:47 am

They cancelled plans for a 2nd LHR/DXB flight citing shortage of slots at LHR so maybe the HKG plans have been shelved for the same reason.
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United Airline
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:57 am

Thought they desperately needed a 2nd daily LHR-HKG to provide feeder service to HKG-SYD

How is HKG-SYD doing?
 
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Ncfc99
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:09 am

I was on VS200 to HKG-SYD on 28/3, about 175 pax onboard. VS201 SYD-HKG on 24/3, 201 pax onboard. LHR-HKG was full both ways.
 
United Airline
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:30 am

Seems that HKG-SYD is not doing as good as it should be. Perhaps a 2nd daily HKG-LHR flight will help.
 
anstar
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:34 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 4):
Seems that HKG-SYD is not doing as good as it should be. Perhaps a 2nd daily HKG-LHR flight will help.

I think it is doing better than it has in the past. I agree that a 2nd LHR-HKG flight would make sense. Perhaps they will hold ooff for a bit and introduce it when Virgin Blue start long haul. Ie DJ may start a BNE-HKG service which can also connect to the extra flight?
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:01 am

Didn't they can the idea when NZ started up daily 744 HKG-LHR? There are now so many flights between the two cities.
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United Airline
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:11 am

I can tell it's doing better when I was in SYD a few weeks ago.

I am sure even if they add another HKG-LHR flight it will always be full. Perhaps they should put a A 340-300 on the second flight? Or simply use a B 747-400 for the current flight which will increase capacity
 
8herveg
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:37 pm

So currently, is it the same plane flying from LHR-HKG as it is from HKG-SYD? So half the aircraft is used for passengers terminating in Hong Kong, and the other half is for passengers flying onward to Sydney?
 
PM
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:40 pm

A tad off topic but wasn't LGW-HKG a good money-spinner for BCAL?
 
B742
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:43 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 8):
So currently, is it the same plane flying from LHR-HKG as it is from HKG-SYD?

Yes that is correct. The aircraft (A346) flies LHR-HKG-SYD-HKG-LHR.

I would like to see a possibly second daily A343/6 flight to HKG, hopefuly this will improve loads on LHR-HKG-SYD flights.

I would also love to see another Asian city announced such as BKK and KUL, with the latter less likely.

Rob!  wave 
 
aussie747
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:40 am

The problem is on some days is most of the pax from SYD prefer to go to LHR than just to HKG. Problem lies in here is that not a lot of seats available on the HKG-LHR portion of the flight (due to the HKG originating pax). In the interim VS have undertaken a marketing campaign especially in a lot of leisure shows to get them to come to HKG on VS.

So as has been reported only using larger capacity on SYD-HKG-LHR or introduce a second service between HKG-LHR will solve the issue.
 
DaHawk
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:27 pm

Any news if VS will ever start up LHR-HKG-MEL?

With the withdraw of BA last year...
 
flyboysp
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:00 pm

QF fly that route using 744s. The schedule is as follows for QF29 MEL-HKG-LHR

Dep MEL 2250, Arr HKG 0550
Dep HKG 0735, Arr LHR 1330
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swiftski
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:01 pm

Question; at a given time, how many potential Virgin aircraft would be operating a part of this route at exactly the same time?
i.e one on LHR-HKG while another is still on HKG-SYD? Would there be more than two?
 
Gemuser
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:17 pm

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 14):
Question; at a given time, how many potential Virgin aircraft would be operating a part of this route at exactly the same time?

There are always three aircraft operating VSs LHR-HKG-SYD-HKG-LHR service.

The aircraft that leaves LHR at 22:30(GMT) on Monday arrives SYD at 06:25(+10) on Wednesday, it leaves SYD on Wed at 14:35 and arrives back at LHR at 05:25(GMT) on Thursday. Therefore aircraft A leaves LHR on Monday, aircraft B leaves on Tuesday and aircraft C leaves on Wednesday. Aircraft A returns on Thursday in time to operate the Thursday service to SYD.

[Note:These are nominal "aircraft" not real aircraft. The real aircraft returning from SYD might do a flight somewhere, eg VS3 to JFK at 09:30 and not get back until the following morning]

This highlites on of the reasons Oz-Europe flight are expensive to operate, you need three, over a hundred million dollar, aircraft to operate each daily service.

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8herveg
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:54 pm

Was the original LHR-HKG flight not doing that well then loads wise, if they decided to carry it on to SYD? Surely by carrying it on to SYD, it has allowed less people to be booked on the original LHR-HKG flight?
 
United Airline
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:11 am

LHR-HKG has always been a very busy route for VS and the rest
 
8herveg
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 17):
LHR-HKG has always been a very busy route for VS and the rest

But surely now that the original single flight a day to HKG now goes onto SYD, it means that half the passengers on the aircraft are destined for HKG and the other half for SYD, meaning that the original flight to HKG (before it went on to SYD) is now not able to be filled up with HKG passengers to its full potential?
 
Gemuser
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 18):
But surely now that the original single flight a day to HKG now goes onto SYD, it means that half the passengers on the aircraft are destined for HKG and the other half for SYD, meaning that the original flight to HKG (before it went on to SYD) is now not able to be filled up with HKG passengers to its full potential?

Well probabley not half, but that is the right general idea.

The SYD service was not launched because of problems with HKG, it was launched because SRB wanted to serve Oz and no other reason. It was in spite of the problems it caused between HKG & LHR. The 2nd LHR-HKG service was always planned to cover this, but it didn't happen. Why? My guesses: since VS launched HKG-SYD both QF & NZ have launched daily HKG-LHR services from MEL/AKL respectively. Also VS still has capacity limitations with the A346 & A380 problems. I supect you will see a 2nd daily VS service LHR-HKG in due course.

On the next obvious question of why use HKG enroute to SYD, the only choices were NRT, Shanghai, BOM or Del. I don't think the UK has fifth freedom rights from China, NRT is very slot constrained & I don't know if they have 5th freedom and even if theydo Japan - Oz traffic is dominated by low yield group tour business, other traffic is quite thin. The two Indian cities are alternatives, but SYD-HKG traffic is stronger than SYD - India traffic. So all in all it looks like HKG was the best/less risk intermediate stop between LHR & SYD for VS.

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swiftski
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:35 am

The Shanghai (PVG) route is very profitable for VS as is, even without connecting passengers.

I don't think that will ever happen though, with Visa rules quite tight there.
 
United Airline
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:24 am

HKG is definitely not the problem.
 
alangirvan
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:18 am

Visa rules at Shanghai allow people on certain passports to have a 48 hour transit stop at Shanghai.


SRB has mentioned BKK and MEL as being of interest to VS. Since BA has withdrawn from MEL, that does give 7 weekly frequencies that would be available to a UK based airline. VS could test the water by operating some LHR-HKG-MEL flights, and they could use BKK as a transit stop. Or, as Virgin Blue builds up their international network, there could be an agreement where VirginBlue operates all the flights between Asia and Australasia.

Reported that VS wants to start some flights from US to Milan, Madrid and Zurich. If Australia and EU ever reach an Open Skies agreement, VS and others could do some flights from Continental Europe to Asia, to connect onto flights to Australia. Now that Qantas has given up on Rome, perhaps a VS service LHR-MXP/FCO-HKG to connect with HKG-SYD/MEL flights would work for VS.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 19):
The SYD service was not launched because of problems with HKG



Quoting United Airline (Reply 21):
HKG is definitely not the problem.

Relax. Problem as in too much demand. It's a good thing. A plane load of Heathrow Hong Kongs makes far more money than a plane load of Heathrow Sydneys.

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 22):
SRB has mentioned BKK

Apart from Singapore and Kuala Lumpur, problem with any asian hubs is that the hubs themselves are huge destinations themselves. If you start Heathrow Bangkok Melbourne, unless you don't sell any seats to terminate at Bangkok, you won't get any through passengers into Oz. You have to have a terminator service to ease demand and spare capacity for the second segment.
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alangirvan
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:11 pm

BKK is not such a big destination out of Oz. In the 80s ( yes, a long time ago) before QF started flying through there to London QF operated two 767-200 flights a week, and some years they did not operate to Thailand at all.

Now BA and QF operate through BKK between UK and Australia, so it works as a transit point for them. When Air Asia longhaul gets going, they have said that their business will be flying people from Australia or from Europe to Asian resort destinations - through traffic will be a secondary interest for them.

I think BKK and Thailand would still be a good transit point for VS because they could sell Thai holidays and stopovers to both the Australian and UK markets. VS and Virgin Blue can work together to offer several different transit points between UK and Oz/NZ.
 
Gemuser
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:51 pm

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 24):
In the 80s ( yes, a long time ago) before QF started flying through there to London QF operated two 767-200 flights a week, and some years they did not operate to Thailand at all.

QF started operating thru BKK to London in 1949 & their aircraft in 1938. In the 1980s they operated SYD-SIN-BKK-FRA. It may have been off & on from time to time, but their hasn't been a sustained period that QF haven't operated to BKK & on to Europe.

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Qantas744er
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RE: VS's Proposed 2nd Daily LHR-HKG Flight

Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
Or simply use a B 747-400 for the current flight which will increase capacity

Could be a problem going back west for their 744's since their have a MTOW of 377,000 Kgs. opposed to the 744's max. MTOW of 396,000Kgs. Operators can choose what MTOW option they want when they buy a plane, the less MTOW will make the total plane cost go down. But if a operator wants to upgrade the MTOW to the max available for example in this case VS. They would pay money to boeing, and then recieve updated aircraft manuals and a MTOW update to the FMC in the plane. So in the end there is no actual physical change to be done to the plane.

BTW going east could be ok. but from checking the ACARS messages on the flights of QF,BA,CX,NZ operated with the 744 they always go out with at least 380,000 Kgs from HKG-LHR

So because of this i am pretty sure the 744 would get some major cargo restrictions becuse of their current MTOW's.

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