LordHowe
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SQ Fleet Question

Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:18 pm

I am sorry if this topic has been discussed recently - I did not find anything by searching through the earlier topics.

I just read SQ's Press release from 26th of April, which stated that:

Quote:
... other models of the Trent family of engines will power the first 10 Airbus 380s (Trent 900), the first of which will be delivered this year, as well as all 19 A330-300s (Trent 700), which will delivered from 2009.



This raised some questions. SQ has placed a lot of orders for new aircrafts. The A380s and 77Ws will replace 744s - correct?

But they are also getting these 19 new A333s, 20 A350s (20 on option), 20 787s (20 on option). This would mean at the most almost one hundred new widebodies.

Are they going to expand that much or will these new aircrafts replace some of the older ones - which by the way are not at all that old?

Best regards,
LordHowe
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PM
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:38 pm

Basically, the answer to your question is that SQ are thinking beyond the 777-200ER. These planes will start leaving the fleet in the not too distant future.

SQ received their first 777-200ER almost exactly 10 years ago - on 5th May 1997. By SQ's standards it's certainly not too soon to talk about replacing them. They fly 46 777-200ERs with the youngest being three years old.

The 787s will arrive between 2011 and 2013. The A350s will come after that. I think we can safely assume that the 777-200ER will be replaced by these orders (and subsequent ones for either type). The A330s are intended to provide extra lift before the 787s can be delivered and they may displace some 777s too. But they are only intended to have short careers in SQ colours.
 
anstar
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:39 pm

Quoting LordHowe (Thread starter):
But they are also getting these 19 new A333s, 20 A350s (20 on option), 20 787s (20 on option). This would mean at the most almost one hundred new widebodies.

Are they going to expand that much or will these new aircrafts replace some of the older ones - which by the way are not at all that old?

I believe the A330's are only interim aircraft.

Eventually it will be

A380/A350/77W for long haul

787 for regional (replacing 772's etc)
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting LordHowe (Thread starter):
Are they going to expand that much or will these new aircrafts replace some of the older ones - which by the way are not at all that old?

Maybe you might see Tiger flying some ex SQ 777 Wink
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CXfirst
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:33 pm

Quoting LordHowe (Thread starter):
19 new A333s

They are being leased from airbus (part of the A380 compensation) and will go back to airbus when sufficient A350's have arrived.

-CXfirst
 
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zeke
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:19 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 4):

They are being leased from airbus (part of the A380 compensation) and will go back to airbus when sufficient A350's have arrived.

The possibility has been raised of them going to Tiger or Singapore Cargo.
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PM
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:55 pm

SQ is the first (and so far only) airline to order the Trent -500, -700, -800 and -900. Will their 787s have the -1000 and will the XWBs have the -1700 (or whatever it ends up being called)?

Another thread suggests that SQ are one of the airlines behind Airbus pushing GE for a GEnx on the A350. Are SQ wary of becoming too committed to RR?
 
kaitak744
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:38 am

Quoting ANstar (Reply 2):
A380/A350/77W for long haul

787 for regional (replacing 772's etc)

Singapore's A380 routes (19 planes):
3xSIN-LHR, 3xSIN-SYD, SIN-MEL, SIN-AKL, SIN-NRT, SIN-NRT-LAX, SIN-HKG-SFO, SIN-FRA

Singapore's 777-300ER routes (19 planes):
Current 777-200ER (long-haul) routes + SIN-CDG, SIN-FRA-JFK, SIN-ZRH.

^777-200ERs which are taken over by 777-300ERs will be implemented on intra-Asia routes. Retired when A330-300s arrive. A330-300s retired when 787-9 arrives.

787-9 to replace A340-500 on SIN-LAX and SIN-EWR.

So by 2015:
Long-haul: A380, 77W, and 787-9 on SIN-LAX and SIN-EWR.
Medium-haul / Short-haul: 787-9s and some of the youngest 777-200ERs (787-10 probably).

I seriously doubt Singapore will actually finalize the A350 order. The 787 order is finalized, and the have new 777-300ERs coming in. No place for the A350.
 
anstar
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 7):
Singapore's A380 routes (19 planes):
3xSIN-LHR, 3xSIN-SYD, SIN-MEL, SIN-AKL, SIN-NRT, SIN-NRT-LAX, SIN-HKG-SFO, SIN-FRA

I doubt AKL will get a regular A380 service.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 7):
I seriously doubt Singapore will actually finalize the A350 order. The 787 order is finalized, and the have new 777-300ERs coming in. No place for the A350.

They have said that the 787's would be used on regional routes and the A350 on long haul. When did this change?
 
boeingfever777
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:29 am

Quoting LordHowe (Thread starter):
19 new A333s, 20 A350s (20 on option)

A330's are leased. A350's are a LOI.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
United Airline
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:48 am

I suppose SQ will get extra A 380s in the future. Or they might order the B 747-8.

Quoting PM (Reply 1):
SQ received their first 777-200ER almost exactly 10 years ago - on 5th May 1997. By SQ's standards it's certainly not too soon to talk about replacing them. They fly 46 777-200ERs with the youngest being three years old.

SQ's B 777-200ERs are still very new and I doubt they will be replaced anytime soon.
 
kaitak744
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting ANstar (Reply 8):
Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 7):
I seriously doubt Singapore will actually finalize the A350 order. The 787 order is finalized, and the have new 777-300ERs coming in. No place for the A350.

They have said that the 787's would be used on regional routes and the A350 on long haul. When did this change?

It never officially changed. However, why would Singapore only designate an 8000nm aircraft to short and medium routes? The 787-9 can fly the distance of any current SQ 777-200ER route. Plus, the 787-9, with roughly 200 pax, can easily fly SIN-EWR nonstop with more cargo than the A340-500. The 787-9 can do long, medium, and short-haul flights very economically with similar capacity to A350. So, why on earth would SQ still want the A350 at all?

Plus, Singapore is very very proud of their new interior and they are unlikely to change it. The cross section of the A350 is too narrow to fit 19-inch economy seats in standard layout. The only aircraft that can fit 19-inch economy in standard layout are the 787, 777, and A380.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 10):
I suppose SQ will get extra A 380s in the future. Or they might order the B 747-8.

Singapore Airlines will never get the 747-8i. The cross section is too narrow to fit 19-inch economy seats in standard layout. Singapore is very very proud of their new interior and they are unlikely to change it. The 747-8F is a good possibility though.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 10):

SQ's B 777-200ERs are still very new and I doubt they will be replaced anytime soon.

By the time Singapore's 787-9s will enter service, their oldest 777-200ER will be 15 years old. 15 years is a long time for Singapore to keep an aircraft in its fleet. Thus, the A330-300s will begin 772ER replacement, and the 787 will be the final replacer.
 
CXfirst
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:44 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 11):
Plus, Singapore is very very proud of their new interior and they are unlikely to change it. The cross section of the A350 is too narrow to fit 19-inch economy seats in standard layout. The only aircraft that can fit 19-inch economy in standard layout are the 787, 777, and A380.

I don't think that is enough to stop SQ ordering the aircraft.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 11):
Singapore Airlines will never get the 747-8i. The cross section is too narrow to fit 19-inch economy seats in standard layout.

Yet again, not enough to stop them ordering the 747-8i, however I don't think they're gonna get this aircraft due to the 777-300ER, A350 (possibly) and the A380...

-CXfirst
 
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LTU932
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:46 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 11):
Thus, the A330-300s will begin 772ER replacement, and the 787 will be the final replacer.

This would mean that the first 772s to leave SQ will be the regional configured aircraft with 9V-SR* registrations, right?

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
Yet again, not enough to stop them ordering the 747-8i, however I don't think they're gonna get this aircraft due to the 777-300ER, A350 (possibly) and the A380...

Yes, but given how Chew slammed the 747-8I in recent months, is there any chance of it being ordered at all? I do agree that the 747-8F would be perfect for their cargo operation and may most probably be the 747 they'll eventually order.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:56 pm

They have *0* A350 on order. Thats right *0* They did/do have a LOI that should have been firmed up months ago, but in that time period we have heard nothing.
 
kaitak744
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:08 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 13):
This would mean that the first 772s to leave SQ will be the regional configured aircraft with 9V-SR* registrations, right?

Not necessarily. Remember, all their 777-200s are ER versions. Some just have a de-rated engine to make it perform like a -200A. The 777 retirement of 777s will simply begin with the oldest one. Their oldest one is 9V-SQA, line number 67, delivered 05/05/1997.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 14):
They have *0* A350 on order. Thats right *0* They did/do have a LOI that should have been firmed up months ago, but in that time period we have heard nothing.

exactly. They firmed their 787 order within a few months. Their A350 order was announced at Paris last year, and they have not yet confirmed it, leading to strong speculation that they do not have intentions of actually getting the A350s.
 
ua76heavy
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:44 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 7):
I seriously doubt Singapore will actually finalize the A350 order. The 787 order is finalized, and the have new 777-300ERs coming in. No place for the A350.

I also have my doubts and suspect Airbus gave SQ a deal that they couldn't resist, such as no cancellation penalties or forfeiture of deposits, and some cash guarantees (of course, none of us will ever know and can only suspect). Airbus needs a world-class, top-tier airline to "validate" the A350 XWB just as Boeing has AC, NH, CO, JL, NW, QF, SQ and VS (as well as others) for the 787.
 
ikramerica
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:50 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 5):
The possibility has been raised of them going to Tiger or Singapore Cargo.

That would be a good use of them if the lease rates are good.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 10):
I suppose SQ will get extra A 380s in the future. Or they might order the B 747-8.

Chew has publicly dismissed the 748 multiple times. Even if it was to pretect his neck due to the A380 delays, to go back on that would make his comments seem dumb.

I'd except a few more A380s with SQ, up to 30 total.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
scotron11
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:11 pm

Quoting UA76Heavy (Reply 16):

Airbus needs a world-class, top-tier airline to "validate" the A350 XWB just as Boeing has AC, NH, CO, JL, NW, QF, SQ and VS (as well as others) for the 787.

Why? SQ may not have firmed their order for the A350, but there have been no reports of them cancelling it either. And I guess the non world-class, 2nd tier airlines like TAM, TAP, Finnair, Qatar & US Airways don't count as "validation" of the A350?? How you lump AC & NW as world-class is beyond me!

Boeing have a clear winner with the 787, there is no denying that. But Airbus have had their share of success as well and it is good for us as well as airlines that both these companies keep developing and manufacturing competing models. Otherwise what would we debate about??
 
anstar
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:16 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 11):
It never officially changed. However, why would Singapore only designate an 8000nm aircraft to short and medium routes? The 787-9 can fly the distance of any current SQ 777-200ER route.

I guess the same reason QF ordered them for some of their domestic ops. Just because it can do the range doesn;t mean it will be used.
 
chiad
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:21 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 11):
Plus, Singapore is very very proud of their new interior and they are unlikely to change it. The cross section of the A350 is too narrow to fit 19-inch economy seats in standard layout. The only aircraft that can fit 19-inch economy in standard layout are the 787, 777, and A380.

The A350 cross-section is: 232 inches
The B787 cross-section is: 226 inches

Why cant the A350 fit 19-inch economy in standard layout?
 
CXfirst
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting Chiad (Reply 20):
Why cant the A350 fit 19-inch economy in standard layout?

787 is 2-4-2 in standard layout (3-3-3 also a standard layout, but not for SQ), while A350 standard layout is 3-3-3

-CXfirst
 
kaitak744
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting ANstar (Reply 19):
I guess the same reason QF ordered them for some of their domestic ops. Just because it can do the range doesn;t mean it will be used.

Yes of coarse. The majority of 787 orders are for one-one 767/A300 replacement. However, looking at Singapore's route map, they currently use 777-200ERs on routes as short as SIN-KUL and on routes as long as SIN-MAN. So, I was just questioning why Singapore would "cap" the 787 at only the short / medium routes.
 
ikramerica
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 21):
787 is 2-4-2 in standard layout

Alternatively it was 3-2-3 for technical and comfort reasons, despite the "double excuse me."
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 15):
Their A350 order was announced at Paris last year, and they have not yet confirmed it,

Has the design been frozen and thus all the performance details and the appropriate guarantees, in place?
 
boeingfever777
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:20 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 15):
exactly. They firmed their 787 order within a few months. Their A350 order was announced at Paris last year, and they have not yet confirmed it, leading to strong speculation that they do not have intentions of actually getting the A350s.

Total BS... You do not know what SQ's intentions are at all. Therefore you cannot comment like you did.

The A350 XWB-900 is not a firm design yet. Also there could still be compensation that Airbus is dealing with SQ on the A380 delays and they are rectifying it with A330 leases and A350 pricing.

Next you know you'll be saying QR is dropping there order huh?  Yeah sure
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XT6Wagon
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:06 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 25):
Total BS... You do not know what SQ's intentions are at all. Therefore you cannot comment like you did.

The A350 XWB-900 is not a firm design yet. Also there could still be compensation that Airbus is dealing with SQ on the A380 delays and they are rectifying it with A330 leases and A350 pricing.

Um, Airbus and SQ BOTH claimed that they would firm up the LOI "shortly" after they announced the LOI. Its been a long time since then... and silence. Its very much his right to express doubt for something that so far has shown all the signs of NOT going through. You may disagree about the outcome of the LOI, but its no reason for the attack you made.
 
LordHowe
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RE: SQ Fleet Question

Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:20 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 26):
that they would firm up the LOI "shortly" after they announced the LOI. Its been a long time since then...

And we all know what has been happening with the 350 during that time.

Regards,
LordHowe
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