AlitaliaMD11
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Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:27 pm

I thought this was not worthy.

Today the regular Finnair MD-11 flight was operated by a 757-200 for the second time I believe. OH-LBO was the reg.

Here she is arriving:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/JFKApril2/8fn752jfk.jpg

And departing:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/JFKApril2/20fn752jfk.jpg

I was surprised she departed at the scheduled time as last time this happened she did not depart till the next morning due to crew issues.
No Vueling No Party
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:44 pm

The MD11 schedule at AY is stretched like never before this summer, so expect to get more aircraft substitutions like these whenever irregularities occur in the MD11 operation.
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:51 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
The MD11 schedule at AY is stretched like never before this summer, so expect to get more aircraft substitutions like these whenever irregularities occur in the MD11 operation.

Could we expect an A340-300?  Wink
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Bofredrik
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:06 pm

227 pax in AY:s 757... So the C-class passengers must have had less comfort as expected (compared with a MD-11).
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:08 pm

Ouch...M11 to 757...quite a downgrade there.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:10 pm

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Thread starter):
I was surprised she departed at the scheduled time as last time this happened she did not depart till the next morning due to crew issues.

Did AY fly a crew in to JFK to operate the return leg?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
DFW13L
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:38 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 5):
Did AY fly a crew in to JFK to operate the return leg?

The only way it could have returned on time is if the return crew was flown in a day before, and overnighted at JFK to have rest to return. The earlier time that was mentioned, where the flight was delayed until the next morning was probably due to crew rest, if they didn't send a 757 cockpit crew in advance. I guess it depends on how far in advance they do the downgrade.
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teme82
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:10 pm

I think they had flown the crew for the return trip a day ahead, since they were then aware that they would fly the HEL-JFK-HEL flights with that 757-200.
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LordHowe
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:17 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
The MD11 schedule at AY is stretched like never before this summer

This "stretched" has not even begun yet! Right now they are having a phase in between. The hard work is beginning in May.

This downgrade happened due to some technical problems with one of the MD11s. AY have had their fare share of these problems lately - maybe because of the very stretched schedules they have been having over the winter schedules too ...

Regards,
LordHowe
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LordHowe
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:23 pm

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Thread starter):
I was surprised she departed at the scheduled time as last time this happened she did not depart till the next morning due to crew issues.

She has arrived in HEL 1 hour 15 min late this morning - so if she departed at the scheduled time, she must have landed somewhere for a technical stop?

Regards,
LordHowe
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PHKLM
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:38 pm

Quoting LordHowe (Reply 8):
This downgrade happened due to some technical problems with one of the MD11s. AY have had their fare share of these problems lately - maybe because of the very stretched schedules they have been having over the winter schedules too ...

Does anyone know how this affects the HEL-BKK flights? Does it get priority over other flights? Or is it delayed / substituted very often?

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 4):
Ouch...M11 to 757...quite a downgrade there.

Yes, but I don't know whether I would be bothered as a Y pax, because the 757 has 3-3 seats, whereas the M11 has 3-4-3 in Y  crowded 
 
LordHowe
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:48 pm

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 10):
Does anyone know how this affects the HEL-BKK flights?

Saturday evenings AY97 HEL-BKK-SIN departed on Sunday morning (9 hours late, two hours after the arrival of AY92 from BKK - so probably with that aircraft) and was flown only as HEL-BKK-HEL.

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 10):
whether I would be bothered as a Y pax, because the 757 has 3-3 seats

I would anytime take MD11, because this 757 is a leisure version with 227 seats.

Regards,
LordHowe
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Someone83
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:01 pm

Does AY have the same reliability problems with their MD-11s as KL have with theirs?
 
Finnaviation
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:51 pm

Reason for using 752 HEL-JFK-HEL was because OH-LGCs check was running overtime. Scheduled flight for LGC was on Saturday but aircraft was not ready. So AY97 to Bangkok and Singapore on Saturday departed on Sunday morning 8:30am and it was OH-LGA which arrived HEL 6:30am from BKK as AY92

On Sunday all Asian MD-11 flights(CAN, PVG, KIX and BKK) departed on time and OH-LGD started her one week-check.

Now it looks like OH-LGC is ready for departure today. Its heading to DEL or JFK.

This summer MD-11 schedules are not so tight as they were last summer. Last summer for seven MD-11s it was only one day free per week. Now coming summer its 3 days in one week when one aircraft stays overnight in HEL.
And this possible because of cutting Bangkok-Singapore-Bangkok service.

Last night AY6 did not have techincal stop. OH-LBO departed JFK 7:04pm and arrived in HEL 10:05am local.
 
swiftski
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:34 pm

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Thread starter):
I was surprised she departed at the scheduled time as last time this happened she did not depart till the next morning due to crew issues.

A bit harsh on AY to say you are surprised they got it right, after "once" getting it wrong?
 
andaman
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:54 pm

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 10):

... whereas the M11 has 3-4-3 in Y

Actually the first third of the Y cabin has 3-4-2, strangely enough.
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FFlyer
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:06 pm

Quoting Finnaviation (Reply 13):
Last night AY6 did not have techincal stop. OH-LBO departed JFK 7:04pm and arrived in HEL 10:05am local.

How about the HEL-JFK (the longer in time) leg? Does this kind of prove that HEL-JFK can be flown on 757? Or did they have payload restrictions, and/or the winds were favorable? Maybe CO and DL can take a note of this...
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:07 pm

Quoting LordHowe (Reply 9):
She has arrived in HEL 1 hour 15 min late this morning - so if she departed at the scheduled time, she must have landed somewhere for a technical stop?

She actually didn't depart didn't depart until around 6:45.

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 14):
A bit harsh on AY to say you are surprised they got it right, after "once" getting it wrong?

No offense to Finnair, it's just that last time I believe it was a last minute sub and I expected this one to be as well.
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swiftski
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:25 pm

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 17):
No offense to Finnair, it's just that last time I believe it was a last minute sub and I expected this one to be as well.

Cool for the 757 pilot and crew, who will be used to European flights.
 
EFHK
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:38 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 12):
Does AY have the same reliability problems with their MD-11s as KL have with theirs?

AY has some, but not as much as I've heard KL to have.

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 18):
Cool for the 757 pilot and crew, who will be used to European flights.

Actually the 757's are used for charters all around the world, like Thailand, Brazil, Caribbean, India... But of course most of the flights go to European leisure destinations such as the Canary islands, Spain, Turkey and Greece.
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Finnaviation
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:55 pm

And this summer AY's 752's are on schedules routes from HEL to BUD, BCN, CPH and FCO.

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 16):
How about the HEL-JFK (the longer in time) leg? Does this kind of prove that HEL-JFK can be flown on 757? Or did they have payload restrictions, and/or the winds were favorable

These 752s are on AY routes to BOS from ARN and YYZ from HEL.
 
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teme82
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:05 pm

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 16):
Maybe CO and DL can take a note of this...

DL did fly here in the early 90's. With A310 and L1011. Why they stopped operating don't know. But I know that if CO or DL would like to start operating to HEL they could do it as soon as they could. B767-200/300 would do nicely  Smile
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Finnaviation
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:10 pm

I think DL and CO they don't want to loose money so they don't fly to HEL.
 
FFlyer
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting Teme82 (Reply 21):
DL did fly here in the early 90's. With A310 and L1011. Why they stopped operating don't know. But I know that if CO or DL would like to start operating to HEL they could do it as soon as they could. B767-200/300 would do nicely



Quoting Finnaviation (Reply 22):
I think DL and CO they don't want to loose money so they don't fly to HEL.

That's what I meant; anyone to be able to compete with AY on HEL-USA would have to use an a/c not larger than 752. There just is not enough demand for anything bigger. Unless, of course, Finnair would downgrade the JFK route to 752 permanently. Then especially business pax would choose a competing wide-body with a proper business class.

CO and soon DL would be the only candidates, in my mind. Maybe also NW. I believe there still is a Skyteam FF base in Finland (from the PA and DL years), who would be happy to fly somebody else than AY, and/or skip CDG or AMS connection. One question, though, is if 752 has the legs to do it w/o fuel stops too often. ARN-BOS is shorter, and doesn't have the JFK delays to worry about.
 
LordHowe
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting Finnaviation (Reply 13):
Reason for using 752 HEL-JFK-HEL was because OH-LGCs check was running overtime. Scheduled flight for LGC was on Saturday but aircraft was not ready. So AY97 to Bangkok and Singapore on Saturday departed on Sunday morning 8:30am and it was OH-LGA which arrived HEL 6:30am from BKK as AY92

On Sunday all Asian MD-11 flights(CAN, PVG, KIX and BKK) departed on time and OH-LGD started her one week-check.

Now it looks like OH-LGC is ready for departure today. Its heading to DEL or JFK.

This summer MD-11 schedules are not so tight as they were last summer. Last summer for seven MD-11s it was only one day free per week. Now coming summer its 3 days in one week when one aircraft stays overnight in HEL.
And this possible because of cutting Bangkok-Singapore-Bangkok service.

Last night AY6 did not have technical stop. OH-LBO departed JFK 7:04pm and arrived in HEL 10:05am local.

Thanks for a clarifying answer! Nice to have among us people who seem to know!

But I have to say that it has been quite unsuccessful planning from AY technical department if LGC's check was that much late - not ready for departure until today which means two days after the original plan.

And the fact is that these MD11s have had quite a many technical delays during the last year.

Best regards,
LordHowe
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EFHK
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:50 pm

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 23):
I believe there still is a Skyteam FF base in Finland (from the PA and DL years), who would be happy to fly somebody else than AY, and/or skip CDG or AMS connection.

Based on my personal experience I believe this is true. Even my family has a lot of SkyMiles.  Wink

Quoting LordHowe (Reply 24):
And the fact is that these MD11s have had quite a many technical delays during the last year.

Yes, there have been, but not too many in my opinion. Of course even one delay is too many but compared to others I don't think the amount of delays has been so bad.
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Finnaviation
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:57 pm

Quoting LordHowe (Reply 24):
But I have to say that it has been quite unsuccessful planning from AY technical department if LGC's check was that much late - not ready for departure until today which means two days after the original plan.


I think You know this business, some things just don't work as planned if something special comes up with aircraft. Safety first.

But now all long-haul flights should roll on time, OH-LGC just left to India (DEL) .
 
DLBOIFIN
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Tue May 01, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 23):
That's what I meant; anyone to be able to compete with AY on HEL-USA would have to use an a/c not larger than 752. There just is not enough demand for anything bigger. Unless, of course, Finnair would downgrade the JFK route to 752 permanently. Then especially business pax would choose a competing wide-body with a proper business class.

CO and soon DL would be the only candidates, in my mind. Maybe also NW. I believe there still is a Skyteam FF base in Finland (from the PA and DL years), who would be happy to fly somebody else than AY, and/or skip CDG or AMS connection. One question, though, is if 752 has the legs to do it w/o fuel stops too often. ARN-BOS is shorter, and doesn't have the JFK delays to worry about.

Yes, definitely a possibility for DL or CO here! AY timetable to JFK just is not good for the Finnish passengers; 2.20pm departure is far too late! Bring a flight with departure time around 10.30-11.00 and I guarantee it will be a success. At the moment majority of the pax between HEL-USA are connecting through European hubs, so there definitely is a market for one US carrier. It is interesting to see what happens when DL gets the ex-TWA 757's that will be used for trans-oceanic flights...maybe we will see them in HEL?!
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Tue May 01, 2007 10:06 pm

Quoting Finnaviation (Reply 13):
This summer MD-11 schedules are not so tight as they were last summer. Last summer for seven MD-11s it was only one day free per week. Now coming summer its 3 days in one week when one aircraft stays overnight in HEL.
And this possible because of cutting Bangkok-Singapore-Bangkok service.

While there may be an increased amount of overnight operational spare at BKK, one also needs to look at the average daily utilization rates, which are up this summer from last summer. I predict multiple operational instabilities this summer with the MD11 fleet.
 
PresRDC
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RE: Finnair Flight To JFK 757-200 Today (4/29)

Wed May 02, 2007 2:21 am

I though AY's 757s did not have a premium cabin (all Y seating). As such, they would have to either involuntary downgrade the J pax or reroute them. If it were me, I'd expect to be rerouted.