MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 1:19 am

A delegation of businessmen from Miami visited South Africa lately pushing for a non-stop link to the country:

http://allafrica.com/stories/200704300345.html

Miami has been without South Africa service since January 2000, when SAA replaced Miami service with now-discontinued Atlanta service. SAA was close to announcing Miami service last year, but instead decided on service to Chicago O'Hare. That service, however, suffered from poor advanced bookings, and was discontinued approximately one month before launch. Miami has the country's largest South African community and strong ties to the area, but those ties have become weaker with the lack of non-stop air service. There have been rumours lately that American Airlines is closely investigating flying to South Africa from MIA, which they last looked at doing back in 2000. South African Airways has also expressed some interest in flying to Miami, but with their current situation, it is unlikely to happen anytime soon.
a.
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 2:52 am

If AA were to go into South Africa, any speculation on routing/aircraft?
 
flyorski
Posts: 725
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:23 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 3:02 am

It would be great if AA would open a route to South Africa from MIA.

I think they would do well, with a 777 instead of the larger 747 that SAA used.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 3:05 am

If AA were to fly to S.A it would be from Miami due to the large South African community in South Florida.

If it were to include a stop it would be in Lagos,Nigeria due to the local community and oil traffic, if it were non-stop It would be JNB via CPT since their 777s can make it.

 twocents   yes 
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2895
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 3:16 am

A daily 777 round-robin MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA flight would be the most efficient routing that AA could provide.
.......
 
jfk777
Posts: 5843
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 3:20 am

Why does the 777 have to stop in west africa, it can go nonstop to J'Berg, fly on to Cape Town and fly nonstop back to Miami from CPT as the SAA 744 did. West Africa flying should be by 767 nonstop from ORD, JFK or MIA as a separate operation.
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
Why does the 777 have to stop in west africa, it can go nonstop to J'Berg, fly on to Cape Town and fly nonstop back to Miami from CPT as the SAA 744 did. West Africa flying should be by 767 nonstop from ORD, JFK or MIA as a separate operation.

It can't go non-stop to JNB, unless were talking 77Ls.

JNB is too high of an elevation.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 3:24 am

MIA-JNB would be pushing their B772ER's and it might be load restricted on certain days....

A MIA-CPT-JNB would also be pushing the B772ER and it probably wouldn't make financial sense for AA to do it.

MIA-LOS-JNB would be great with a B763 and probably profitable, but Nigeria's political climate is never stable and I'm not so sure if AA would be willing to take the chance...though carriers such as BA and LHR are probably doing fine with it.

Also, don't forget, North American Airlines already flies JFK-LOS nonstop with their B763, so there is a North American-based carrier flying to Nigeria...

It would be nice to see AA take some "bold" steps instead of adding a few South American routes/flights only...
"Up the Irons!"
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
MIA-LOS-JNB would be great with a B763 and probably profitable, but Nigeria's political climate is never stable

Even so, the yields to Nigeria from MIA would be incredible - maybe enough to offset any extra security expenses incurred. It would be a bonus for a South African operation altogether. I'd like to think AA would send a 777 MIA-LOS-JNB until the alleged 787's arrive when MIA-JNB non-stop is feasible.

Nonetheless I think it would be a good market for AA to capitalize on.
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):

MIA-LOS-JNB would be great with a B763 and probably profitable, but Nigeria's political climate is never stable and I'm not so sure if AA would be willing to take the chance.

The same can be said for Haiti which is even worst, turns out the PAP is one of their most profitable routes.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
I'd like to think AA would send a 777 MIA-LOS-JNB until the alleged 787's arrive when MIA-JNB non-stop is feasible.

The flight is feasible now.

If it would make a stop in LOS, it would most likely utilize the 767-300/ER.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
AH332
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:10 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 4:14 am

Hi,

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 3):
If AA were to fly to S.A it would be from Miami due to the large South African community in South Florida.

Living in South Florida, I can attest to that. There are scores of South African families here. My high school had a bunch of South African kids and one of my good friends is from Jo'burg.

An AA service would definately work. Non-stop with a 772 might be pushing it. But, a 763 flight via the above mentioned LOS or even perhaps LAD would seem better. Angola is a nation in transition and growth so you never know.

Just my  twocents 

Cheers,
Imad
Bledi Heya Al Djazaeer! // Next Flights: AB MIA-DUS-ORY, AF ORY-MRS-ALG
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 9):
The flight is feasible now.

I thought a non-stop MIA-JNB route was pushing the envelope of the 772's range, especially during certain seasons. Then there is whole issue of the pilot's contract and ULF as demonstrated by the PEK debacle.

Either way, South Africa would be a good market for AA.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
MIA-LOS-JNB would be great with a B763 and probably profitable, but Nigeria's political climate is never stable

Even so, the yields to Nigeria from MIA would be incredible - maybe enough to offset any extra security expenses incurred. It would be a bonus for a South African operation altogether. I'd like to think AA would send a 777 MIA-LOS-JNB until the alleged 787's arrive when MIA-JNB non-stop is feasible.



Quoting MD90fan (Reply 9):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):

MIA-LOS-JNB would be great with a B763 and probably profitable, but Nigeria's political climate is never stable and I'm not so sure if AA would be willing to take the chance.

The same can be said for Haiti which is even worst, turns out the PAP is one of their most profitable routes.

If security isn't as big as a problem as it's perceived to be, then AA should give it a "go"....it will be very interesting to see how AA approaches this situation...I think it could be a big potential money-maker for AA...
"Up the Irons!"
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 5:05 am

There are range issues using the 772 non-stop to South Africa from Miami, and it could especially hurt the amount of cargo AA can carry, and cargo is a key profit maker on this route. The rumours have been that if AA goes with South Africa (which is a huge risk that would be unlikely of AA, but they are indeed conisdering it), it would be via Lagos. Miami-Lagos would be a cash cow.

I would like to see AA start with an MIA-LOS-JNB routing, and 3-4 years down the road, as AA becomes stronger in both markets and acquires 787s, AA could split them into seperate non-stops.

One thing is for sure is that if AA goes to Africa this winter, we will know within a month or two. However, I personally do not think we will see AA go to Africa in 2007, but I think it is a good possibility for winter 2008. As their financial situation continues to rapidly improve, I think AA is going to be willing to take bigger risks next year.

Also, much less likely but still a possibility, American Airlines plans to start service to Recife this November, and Recife is an ideal stopover, geographically, between Miami and Jo'Burg. However, the local market between Recife and Jo'Burg is almost non-existant, and flying a 763 between Miami and Recife would be overkill. I don't think it would work, but it is something to keep in mind.
a.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2895
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 6):

JNB is too high of an elevation.

The elevation of JNB is irrelevant if the flight is routed MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA.
.......
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 5:52 am

YYZ MIA JNB on AC, using the 772LR is an interesting theoretical route and has been subject of rumours.

However the major stumbling block is the Canada S Africa bilaterals do not, as yet permit this. The bilaterals may well be renegotiated to permit it.

I am not sure whether 772LR has the range fro MIA JNB non stop?

When this has been discussed in past some posters have pointed out that S Africans in transit to from Canada would need a US visa or transit visa, and while this is true it is a bit of a red herring because the vast majority of those travelers would already have a US visa as many would transit US anyway, or would plan on visiting US while in N America.

A bigger problem might be lack of great STAR ALLLIANCE feeder network into MIA.

Anyway it makes for an interesting discussion.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting CayMan (Reply 15):
I am not sure whether 772LR has the range fro MIA JNB non stop?

Yes, it does.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 15):
A bigger problem might be lack of great STAR ALLLIANCE feeder network into MIA.

I don't think this will be a huge problem. There is significant local traffic in the market, which is why AC has been considering MIA as a drop-off point in the first place. Toronto provides the connectivity. Plus, the route would have an SA codeshare.

I'd love to see AC do YYZ-MIA-JNB, I just don't think it will happen for a handful of reasons, but there are bigger issues than the lack of feed. If it was lack of feed, AC wouldn't even be thinking of making a stopover in Miami in the first place. The reason the stopover has been looked at is because MIA can provide the market by itself.
a.
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:52 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 7:22 am

Does AA even have enough planes for this?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 17):
Does AA even have enough planes for this?

LOL..the shortest but most important question on this thread
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 17):
Does AA even have enough planes for this?

Yes, thanks to AA not being granted the Dallas-Beijing route.
a.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 7:14 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
I'd love to see AC do YYZ-MIA-JNB,

Cute idea, but not very customer friendly - pax travelling JNB-YYZ would have to disembark in MIA, clear US immigration and customs, and reboard. Not much fun.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Keep in mind that things like a "large South African population" (works for any population group not living in their country of origin) don't make a good case for a profitable flight - VFR is something that'll keep your loads realitively high, but will keep your yields quite far down.

Either MIA-JNB can be profitable in it's own right, or I doubt we'll be seeing SA or AA (re-)opening it.

At least AA has access to some historical data - they did have their flight number on SAA's flight for a while before it was axed... it's not the most current data, since it's been a couple of years, but some trends should still be visible from them.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
jfk777
Posts: 5843
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 9:23 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
MIA-JNB would be pushing their B772ER's and it might be load restricted on certain days....

JNB's altitude doesn't matter when the 777 is flying there nonstop from MIA. Its landing at JNB.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
A MIA-CPT-JNB would also be pushing the B772ER and it probably wouldn't make financial sense for AA to do it.

MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA

AA is already pushing the 777 envelope on the ORD to New Dehli route of 15 and a half hours & ORD to PVG(Shanghai).
Pushing the 777 is an old sport at AA, why should Miami not get a JNB link ?
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 22):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
MIA-JNB would be pushing their B772ER's and it might be load restricted on certain days....

JNB's altitude doesn't matter when the 777 is flying there nonstop from MIA. Its landing at JNB.

its taking off from JNB which would be problematic...

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 22):
Pushing the 777 is an old sport at AA, why should Miami not get a JNB link ?

...the "still air" distance is much further than either ORD-DEL/PVG

Quoting CayMan (Reply 15):
I am not sure whether 772LR has the range fro MIA JNB non stop?

with AUX tanks, it can do with with ease....in fact, it would even be able to do MIA-JNB...and it probably wouldn't need all 3 aux tanks...maybe 1-2 which would be good, as it would allow for extra cargo revenue as opposed to Jet-A.....
"Up the Irons!"
 
C010T3
Posts: 1616
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Tue May 01, 2007 10:05 pm

Why not combine it with the planned flight to SSA until the 787 arrives? MIA-SSA-JNB wouldn't be so bad... I'm sure Brazil would grant 5th freedom rights, even if temporarily...
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 20):

Cute idea, but not very customer friendly - pax travelling JNB-YYZ would have to disembark in MIA, clear US immigration and customs, and reboard. Not much fun.

No, not much fun at all, but it isn't my "cute idea". Air Canada has been looking at flying the route themselves.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 21):
Keep in mind that things like a "large South African population" (works for any population group not living in their country of origin) don't make a good case for a profitable flight - VFR is something that'll keep your loads realitively high, but will keep your yields quite far down.

VFR isn't always a money maker, but it can be. And in the case of South Africa, it usually is. South African ex-pat communities in cities like London, Miami, and Perth are very wealthy, usually upper-middle/upper-class, and fly back and forth often, and are not shy about buying premium seats. VFR traffic to SAA is a strong yielding market.
a.
 
rb211
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:09 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 2:58 am

How come South African Airways chose FLL over MIA?
Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting RB211 (Reply 26):
How come South African Airways chose FLL over MIA?

Back in 2000 when they needed a fuel stop, they chose FLL for three reasons:

1) Codeshare with SA)">DL, which allowed SA to codeshare with SA)">DL on FLL-LGA, FLL-JFK, and FLL-MCO.
2) Cheaper landing fees.
3) Empty at 5.30AM in the morning, compared to the huge crowds at MIA with dozens of redeyes landing from South America.


Also, not as much an influence, but a large part of the South African community in South Florida lives in northern Miami-Dade/southern Broward, near FLL.
a.
 
whales
Crew
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:11 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 3:18 am

If I was flying I would not want to stop in Lagos, but rather Cape Town Miami return, and direct into Johannesburg, When supposedly flying on a direct flight, there is nothing worse than having a stop over.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 3:47 am

Something I've yet to notice anyone mention here are the new ETOPS allotments.

One of the biggest problems (alongside crew and fleet availability) AA had with using a 772ER to/from S.Africa nonstop was that they were continually denied the authority to op in the S.Atlantic with anything higher than ETOPS138. That wouldn't affect a nonstop MIA-JNB all that much, but would significantly decrease operational flexibility on a nonstop CPT-MIA.

That issue will soon be more or less a thing of the past, and could remove one more potential hurdle for any such nonstop should they choose to initiate it prior to receiving more capable aircraft.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 20):
Cute idea, but not very customer friendly - pax travelling JNB-YYZ would have to disembark in MIA, clear US immigration and customs, and reboard. Not much fun.

Not necesarily, as AC pax traveling YYZ MIA pre-clear US cust9oms and immigration in Canada, so on the YYZ JNB leg it would not likely be necessary. Mind you it would be necessary on the return leg JNB MIA.
 
Umhlanga
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:27 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 3:57 am

Why exactly are we discussing this rumor which is based on no evidence whatsoever? The article in question mentions SAA (which is cutting routes, not adding them), not American Airlines. Until there's some proof that AA want to fly to anywhere in Africa, what's the point of discussing this?
 
PavlovsDog
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 4:12 am

How about a MIA-GRU-JNB routing? It isn't that much longer, 8% according to the Great Circle Mapper, and might allow AA to make some money off their aircraft that stand around on the tarmac at GRU.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting Umhlanga (Reply 31):
Why exactly are we discussing this rumor which is based on no evidence whatsoever? The article in question mentions SAA (which is cutting routes, not adding them), not American Airlines. Until there's some proof that AA want to fly to anywhere in Africa, what's the point of discussing this?

The South Africa rumour has been floating around AA for well over the past year among employees. Yes, it is just a rumour, but one that employees have been hearing.
a.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
However, the local market between Recife and Jo'Burg is almost non-existant, and flying a 763 between Miami and Recife would be overkill. I don't think it would work, but it is something to keep in mind.



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 24):
Why not combine it with the planned flight to SSA until the 787 arrives? MIA-SSA-JNB wouldn't be so bad... I'm sure Brazil would grant 5th freedom rights, even if temporarily...

That's what I was thinking  checkmark 

Main market would be MIA-JNB, with extra seats/cargo available for SSA or REC.

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 32):
ow about a MIA-GRU-JNB routing? It isn't that much longer, 8% according to the Great Circle Mapper, and might allow AA to make some money off their aircraft that stand around on the tarmac at GRU.

It's been said that some people actually fly this route, but I do not know. But AA doesn't have the time to fly to JNB and back between their GRU flights. They'd probably need a good 20 hours of time in between to make it to JNB and back.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 34):

It's been said that some people actually fly this route, but I do not know.

Yes, it's been said, and it's true. AA and TAM interline a good amount of people onto SAA's GRU-JNB flight, even though the layover in Sao Paulo is quite long. AA usually sends at least a dozen a people a day to SAA's GRU flight, on a slow day.

Also, SAA's additional three weekly GRU-JNB flights coming this summmer better connect to Miami. The layover time is significantly cut. The new flight arrives from Jo'Burg right before 8PM, connecting perfectly to the Miami redeyes. The departure at around 10.30PM is perfect to connect from TAM's daylight, as well as AA's seasonal daylight.

[Edited 2007-05-01 21:49:09]
a.
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 5:10 am

Quote:
One of the biggest problems (alongside crew and fleet availability) AA had with using a 772ER to/from S.Africa nonstop was that they were continually denied the authority to op in the S.Atlantic with anything higher than ETOPS138. That wouldn't affect a nonstop MIA-JNB all that much, but would significantly decrease operational flexibility on a nonstop CPT-MIA.

 checkmark 

In the case of ETOPS requirements, check the Great Circle Mapper, http://gc.kls2.com , and one will find that with an ETOPS of 138, MIA-JNB is not a problem, but CPT-MIA is - it cuts right through the outermost section from Antarctica. Sadly, if given a 180 ETOPS rating, CPT-MIA goes right past it - but just barely.

If AA decides to use a 787 on this triangle routing, I would imagine they would be pre 180-ETOPS certified. The premium traffic alone would probably pay off the plane in less than a year!!

Quote:
MIA-LOS-JNB would be great with a B763 and probably profitable, but Nigeria's political climate is never stable and I'm not so sure if AA would be willing to take the chance...though carriers such as BA and LHR are probably doing fine with it.

MIA-LOS as a stand-alone flight would probably be very profitable, but I don't think the logistics would be worth it. Let's see if DL has success with their LOS flight first. Same with LAD - the oil business demands premium seats, and trying to get those while sharing a flight that continues on further will lead to lost business. LAD and LOS command some of the highest numbers of biz pax around. Using them as stopovers probably won't work.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6371
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Miami has been without South Africa service since January 2000, when SAA replaced Miami service with now-discontinued Atlanta service

I have a picture of a SA 744 landing in FLL in June of 01. So..........
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting Whales (Reply 28):
When supposedly flying on a direct flight, there is nothing worse than having a stop over.

That's why you should always book nonstop flights if you don't want a stop... a direct flight can (and usually will... otherwise it'd be called a nonstop flight) make one or more stops along the way.  Wink
Smile - it confuses people!
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting United_Fan (Reply 37):

I have a picture of a SA 744 landing in FLL in June of 01. So..........

So......?

SAA flew to Ft. Lauderdale for a short period, mid-2000 through 9/11. The routing was CPT-FLL-ATL-CPT until 9/11's new security rules made it impractical since the entire plane would have disembark in FLL.
a.
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2376
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 5:52 am

If LOS is questionable then why not ACC? The stability there far exceeds anything in Nigeria.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 36):
but just barely.

Not really. Keep in mind that the GCM assumes a 389kt OEI velocity, which doesn't accurately apply to a 772ER in a realworld scenario.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39):
The routing was CPT-FLL-ATL-CPT

...only part of the week. The other routed CPT-FLL-ATL-JNB-CPT
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: Miami Pushes For South Africa Link

Wed May 02, 2007 10:08 am

Quote:
If LOS is questionable then why not ACC? The stability there far exceeds anything in Nigeria.

I believe ACC was Delta's first choice for their ATL-JNB, but getting full traffic rights between ACC-ATL and ACC-JNB was not going to happen. I'm not sure why, but I agree, it would be a logical place.

Ironically, both MIA-CPT and MIA-JNB direct routings go much closer to South America than they do Africa, so an African stopover would be further out of the way.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 71Zulu, AC853, AJMIA, angusjt, Bing [Bot], brandnsn, David L, dennypayne, FLJ, flydia, Google [Bot], HSVXJ, LawnDart, LAX772LR, lijnden, log0008, qf789, rajincajun01, ScroogeMcDuck, SFOtoORD, TailDragging, zckls04 and 337 guests