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PanAm_DC10
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El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 8:59 pm

El Al is reported to have renewed talks to acquire 787s after cancelling their interest in 8 to 10 frames last November.

If the report is accurate they are, after a meeting between El Als CEO and Boeings Mr Scott Carson in London last week, considering the following;


- Looking to take delivery of 2 x 787 in 2011
- Follow this up by looking at a mixture of lease and direct purchase for a further 6 to 7 frames
- This is about the same amount of frames that they held deposits for but cancelled.

The report is in a local Isreali newspaper and cites Boeing sources and a spokesman for El Al declined comment when called. Rather interesting and it would be appreciated if any local members could verify whether this is the case or add any further information.

A link to the article times out but the report is available via a search at this link http://www.ynetnews.com/home/0,7340,L-3083,00.html

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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scouseflyer
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 9:01 pm

This order is almost as protracted and comical as the Aeroflot one!

They want 787s, they don't want them now they do again!
 
DAYflyer
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
This is about the same amount of frames that they held deposits for but cancelled.

Why did they cancel them in the first place?? Was it $ or another issue??

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
They want 787s, they don't want them now they do again!

Yeah, no doubt.
One Nation Under God
 
slz396
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 9:42 pm

LY is in urgent need for new planes to replace their ageing 767 fleet, yet the problem is they don't have money to finance the deal.

They've looked at the A330, yet contrary to popular belief, Airbus is not giving planes away only to break into a market.

They've looked at the 787, yet the deal broke down over financial issues.

They've turned back to Airbus, hoping they'd get a better deal on A330s after the 787 was launched, only to find out the A330 got even more expensive due to its huge popularity.

They now turn back to Boeing in the hope to get a better deal than the first time... as if.

This can go on for ages...
 
scouseflyer
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 9:48 pm

If they've got no cash, why don't they order some more 767s - they'll be cheap?
 
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 10:00 pm

El Al need a plane in this category and it beggars belief that the order won't go Boeing's way. Much as I'd love to see A330s in El Al colours (not to mention A350s!) I wouldn't bet a bean on it ever happening.
 
EI321
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 10:18 pm

Are they having superficial talks with Airbus also or will this one go straight to B?

[Edited 2007-05-02 15:19:51]
 
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deltadawg
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 10:26 pm

Talks with A are only to secure a better deal with B!
They will acquire some 787's as soon as the checks arrive from Washington!
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 10:28 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 4):
If they've got no cash, why don't they order some more 767s - they'll be cheap?

Good question, they can easily order some B-767-300ERs and/or B-767-400ERs.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 6):
Are they having superficial talks with Airbus also or will this one go straight to B?

Actually, I think they are looking for the best interest rates they can get. The type aircraft may be secondary. If that is true, Boeing may have a slight edge over Airbus, as they can get a slightly better deal.
 
amirs
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 7):
They will acquire some 787's as soon as the checks arrive from Washington!

LY is privately owned
 
rjpieces
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 10:47 pm

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 7):
They will acquire some 787's as soon as the checks arrive from Washington!

US aid to Israel is for military purchases, not commercial aircraft.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
amirs
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 10:53 pm

BTW - couldnt find the article on YNET.

I did find an article that LY paid 2$20 Million for new SICMA seats on the 777.

About a year after I reported it ...
El Al To Install Flat Beds In Platinum (by Amirs Apr 3 2006 in Civil Aviation)
 
keesje
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Wed May 02, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
US aid to Israel is for military purchases, not commercial aircraft.

Wouldn´t that be noble.. http://www.cidi.nl/news/news1999.html#09-12-99a  frown 
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
EI321
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 13):
Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
US aid to Israel is for military purchases, not commercial aircraft.

Wouldn´t that be noble.. http://www.cidi.nl/news/news1999.html#09-12-99a



Quote:

Boeing officials have since complained that because the mid-range jets were not part of the original planned order, they were never able to make a case for their own mid-range 767 model.

On Monday, Transport Minister Yitzhak Mordechai abruptly froze deliberations by El Al's board over the Airbus deal, saying he needed time to examine it himself. Officials inside and outside El Al, however, have until now denied feeling any US pressure to alter the deal.

El Al spokesman Nachman Klieman told Reuters that the airline has not decided which company would win the contract to supply the engines for the 777s, but that "Rolls-Royce is the frontrunner."

Did El Al buy RR on the 777s?
 
norcal
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 13):
Wouldn´t that be noble..

Political orders happen (just like SU), it would be nice if they didn't but I guess we have to accept it. Its not like EL Al really makes a difference in the grand scheme of things. They aren't a LH, EK, or SQ. They are talking about buying 2 planes, I doubt Airbus will lose sleep over this.
 
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deltadawg
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting Amirs (Reply 10):
Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 7):
They will acquire some 787's as soon as the checks arrive from Washington!

LY is privately owned

Yes, I forgot that they went private recently. However, no one will ever convince me otherwise that they would not be under scrutiny and pressured to buy Boeing.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
Lemurs
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 12:37 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 16):
Yes, I forgot that they went private recently. However, no one will ever convince me otherwise that they would not be under scrutiny and pressured to buy Boeing.

Then why bother talking about it? You're convinced you already know the answer, even if you got smacked upside the head by evidence to the otherwise. Might as well give up thinking about it all together, it'd be wasted effort.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
krisyyz
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
Did El Al buy RR on the 777s?

I believe they have Trent 892s, I may be wrong though.

The 787-9 or -10 would be a perfect replacement for their B777s.

KrisYYZ
 
pygmalion
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 1:13 am

Their 777's are only a few years old. (first delivery in Feb 2001 IIRC) no need to replace them. Need is for older fleet replacement... 757, 767
 
LXA340
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 1:17 am

Airbus still is "desperate" to enter the israeli market properly and LY really had a good deal for 6-10 A330's last year including financing aid simlilar to those received in the past by Boeing nevertheless the order was not made. It looks like LY does everything but even consider getting Airbuses so I gues in the near and probably long term no airbuses will fly for them which is really a shame. At least Israir made a wise choice and maybw one or 2 A330/340's will still be ordered by them as well.
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 1:32 am

EL AL will go Boeing... Israel does not recieve money from Washington for there day to day activites.

Israir will find out sooner than later that going Airbus was wrong. I would like to see the day when they ask the government permission to fly to a city they currently do not fly to. They will get denied immeiditely

Israel and Boeing conduct alot of business together in regards to military hardware. That is the reason why Israel and Boeing are in bed together. Not because of Israel recieving aid from Washington.


Aid From United States
Israel recieves 2 billion a year
Egypt recieves 1.7 billion a year
Lebanon recieves 1.3 billion a year

and the list goes on.

There is no indication of Egypt and Lebanon being obligated to purchasing Boeing.

Boeing and Israel need each other for work. Israeli Aircraft Industries are partners with Boeing Military Division.

In regards to 787 EL AL will definitly purchase these planes. It is just a matter of finances and how long Boeing is willing to give them to pay it off.
 
LXA340
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 21):
israir will find out sooner than later that going Airbus was wrong. I would like to see the day when they ask the government permission to fly to a city they currently do not fly to. They will get denied immeiditely

I am sure Israr will not resecive less help from the governmnet just because they purchased Airbus. This is pure rubish!!! Israir made a very good choice, the Boeing 737's are inferior to Airbus regarding comfort speed etc. I am not expecting EL AL to go all Airbus but at least the A330 / A350 would've been a good plane for them.

When does LY plan to have the new flat seats installed in all 744's and 772's and upgraded their IFE with AVOD? Or will this only be available in the 2 new 772's that will be delivwered this year. Also incase Flat seas will be introduced it wold get time for a new first Class any plans fo that?
 
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deltadawg
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 17):
Then why bother talking about it? You're convinced you already know the answer, even if you got smacked upside the head by evidence to the otherwise. Might as well give up thinking about it all together, it'd be wasted effort.

Say what you want, they will order Boeing. You can smack yourself upside the head when you see a 787 in LY color scheme.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
Qantas744er
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting Amirs (Reply 10):
LY is privately owned



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
US aid to Israel is for military purchases, not commercial aircraft.

Right and Right buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut the US ambassador in Tel Aviv does reccomend Boeing in talk with El Al and their management to keep up relations in a perfect state with the US if you know what i mean  Wink

Same thing with the US Ambassador of Jeddah and Riyadh reccomending Boeing for SV which in the end worked out for them.. with a massive order of MD-90, 772 and 744 in the late 90's!

This happens all over the world and always will.. just matters where you have your hands in  Silly

leo
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EI321
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 24):
Same thing with the US Ambassador of Jeddah and Riyadh reccomending Boeing for SV which in the end worked out for them.. with a massive order of MD-90, 772 and 744 in the late 90's!

SV had originally intended to split that order.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 3:08 am

El Al has a couple of new 777s coming this summer, perhaps they will announce something when they deliver...
 
EI321
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 3:19 am

clickhappy Are they 772ERs?
 
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clickhappy
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 3:21 am

yes, first one should be delivered in late July
 
cityguy
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 21):
EL AL will go Boeing... Israel does not recieve money from Washington for there day to day activites.

Israir will find out sooner than later that going Airbus was wrong. I would like to see the day when they ask the government permission to fly to a city they currently do not fly to. They will get denied immeiditely

Israel and Boeing conduct alot of business together in regards to military hardware. That is the reason why Israel and Boeing are in bed together. Not because of Israel recieving aid from Washington.


Aid From United States
Israel recieves 2 billion a year
Egypt recieves 1.7 billion a year
Lebanon recieves 1.3 billion a year

and the list goes on.

There is no indication of Egypt and Lebanon being obligated to purchasing Boeing.

Boeing and Israel need each other for work. Israeli Aircraft Industries are partners with Boeing Military Division.

In regards to 787 EL AL will definitly purchase these planes. It is just a matter of finances and how long Boeing is willing to give them to pay it off.

At the risk of making this a thread debating politics, JFK is essentially correct. Why should Israel buy airplanes from a country that is overtly and publicly anti-semitic?
 
slz396
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 20):
Airbus still is "desperate" to enter the Israeli market properly.

I think the importance to Airbus of 'breaking' into the Israeli market is more than just a bit overrated.

Sure, Airbus wouldn't mind selling EL AL a few of its planes and it would definitely give them some positive press exposure when a deal would be announced, but let's not get carried away here: the Israeli market is SMALL when compared to the global market airbus is competing in, so an order from EL AL is not much more important to Airbus than any other small order. Maybe John Leahy can ultimately knock half million dollar off the price of the deal, but those who think Airbus will give EL AL an additional 10% discount just to be able to put EL AL on their customer list, is daydreaming in my opinion and the track record of failed negotiations between Airbus and (privatized) EL AL back this up: if EL AL doesnt want to pay the normal going rates for the order, then Airbus won't deliver them.
 
EA772LR
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 4:21 am

Couldn't El AL use the money for their coming 772's for 787's?
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
beyauty
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 21):
Aid From United States
Israel recieves 2 billion a year
Egypt recieves 1.7 billion a year
Lebanon recieves 1.3 billion a year

Not sure where you get your sources from, however, Israel gets more than $2 billion per year in military aid, and more than $1billion in economic aid, not to mention more than $3 billion per year in loan guarantees that often never get repaid. While Egypt gets similar amounts of aid they have to give an accounting of how they spend it and Israel does not. In fact Israel is not even required to use military assistance funds in buying American product. Lebanon is nowhere near that, in fact it doesn't even show up on this report from Congress as receiving any assistance.
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/31987.pdf page 17.

Please check your sources before posting.

Back to topic. It's hard to deny, whether EY was a goverment entity at one time, or is now private, that there would be a certain amount of pressure to buy Boeing simply because quite frankly without US assistance to Israelis and their economy a lot fewer Israelis would be able to afford flying and where would EY be?
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 6:48 am

Reply to BEYauty:

Why dont you go look at 2007 not 2004

Israel accounts for everything there is just one big difference United States imported goods from Israel reached an all time high off 34.1% of 42.86 BIllion dollars in 2006. Does that come close to what United States gives them?

Israel has a GDP of 140..3 Billion Dollars in 2006?

Israel GDP per capita is - $26'200 2006

That kind of seems to me for a country that is 60 years old its not that bad with 7 million people and NO natural resources.

Israel recieves aid from United States to actually help them excel in all industries not to feed hungry children on the streets.

They also need some help for security because of all there neighbor's that feel like they must prove something.

So, Please do not tell me that Israel recieve's so much free stuff from Washington.

Again, All I say is in Israel everything is thought out economically and it is not worth it for Israel as a whole not to go BOEING because in the long run Israel will make more money with the United States not with Europe.

Plus, no one here take this the wrong way But, honestly Hasidic Jews may have problems with Airbus because of World War 2, This is the reason why Hasidic Jews only drive AMERICAN CARS
 
a380us
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 6):
Are they having superficial talks with Airbus also or will this one go straight to B?

not even a qustione boeing already won this

now im posotive LY will buy the 787 unless they go bankrupt first

now the only other israeli airlines that would look at airbus are Israir and Arkia
now Arkia already purchased the 787 so im assuming there also out
but Israir recently purchased 2 A320's with another option so i reallly wouldnt be supprised if they orderd the A330 (but they probaly cant get good slots)
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7cubed
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 9:25 am

I believe this drama has played out before. Seems like not too long ago an Israeli airline opted for airbus which brought a visit by Madeline Albright. Within days the order was dropped.

I think the 787 fits well for them.

Cheers
joe
 
CO738
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 12:14 pm

This is almost as bad as car shopping. It's like you put a deposit on a car that you really like and then you see a car at another dealership and you want that one and than it just goes back and forth
If only you could install an air horn on a plane...
 
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LTU932
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 12:33 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
Did El Al buy RR on the 777s?

Yes. All of LY's T7s in service use Trent engines.
 
todaReisinger
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 3:45 pm

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 20):
so I gues in the near and probably long term no airbuses will fly for them which is really a shame.

A shame?

Why would it be a "shame" for an airline not to have Airbusses in its fleet?

On the contrary, it makes more sense for a small fleet not to mix too many airplane types.
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
manni
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 4:17 pm

Quoting Cityguy (Reply 29):
Why should Israel buy airplanes from a country that is overtly and publicly anti-semitic?

Just curious what country you are talking about?

BTW, Airbus is a product from several countries.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 30):
if EL AL doesnt want to pay the normal going rates for the order, then Airbus won't deliver them.

 checkmark  It looks like LY wants to go shopping for aircraft but hasn't got the money to do it. Tough luck!

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 33):
Plus, no one here take this the wrong way But, honestly Hasidic Jews may have problems with Airbus because of World War 2, This is the reason why Hasidic Jews only drive AMERICAN CARS

What an utterly ridiculous comment (talking about the comment, not you). Your statement is based on what? Jews buying American cars in.... America.  rotfl 

BTW, Ever noticed LHs A340s and 747s in TLV? They carry tonnes f them.

Quoting 7cubed (Reply 35):
Seems like not too long ago an Israeli airline opted for airbus which brought a visit by Madeline Albright. Within days the order was dropped.

 checkmark 

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 21):
I would like to see the day when they ask the government permission to fly to a city they currently do not fly to. They will get denied immeiditely

Back to you again. This one made me curious aswel. What governement are you talking about? Would like to put this post back in your face once Israir announces a new destination in that country.

Just in case you're talking about the US. Do you have any idea how many Airbusses are crossing the Atlantic every day to the US. Do you have any idea how many Airbusses are operated by US airlines? Likewise, think of all the Boeings operated by EU airlines and all the Boeings crossing the Atlantic to Europe. Just imagine, if things would be like you suggest, an eye for an eye...  Yeah sure
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jfk787nyc
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 8:38 pm

What an utterly ridiculous comment (talking about the comment, not you). Your statement is based on what? Jews buying American cars in.... America.

BTW, Ever noticed LHs A340s and 747s in TLV? They carry tonnes f them.

and so does Lufthansa

I am not talking about airliners... I am talking about when they already go out buy something they buy American.

It is very very political in Israel not to Boeing.

What countries in Europe are anti-semite? some are just much less than others, Just take a look at AirFrance why are they the only airline that flies narrowbodys to TLV especially when Paris-TLV market is huge its the second largest market in the world after NYC.

NO ONE FLIES THEM FOR A REASON
 
LXA340
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 10:28 pm

Quoting TodaReisinger (Reply 38):
On the contrary, it makes more sense for a small fleet not to mix too many airplane types.

From this point of view It would be the most efficient with LY's fleet to have ony Airbus Aircraft in it's fleet. Now there is only commonality between 757/767 flight crews between all the other aicraf types there is no commonality. Hence it would help LY to save operating costs. LX and AY are doing the same, or atleast AY is in the process by getting rid of MD11's and replacing them as well with Airbuses. LY could for instance have A32S Aircraft for their short / medium haul flights. B748 for their heavy demand Long / Medium Haul routes and A350s for their Ultra Long / Medium Haul flighs with less traffic.
 
flybaby
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting BEYauty (Reply 32):
Not sure where you get your sources from, however, Israel gets more than $2 billion per year in military aid, and more than $1billion in economic aid, not to mention more than $3 billion per year in loan guarantees that often never get repaid.

That's simply incorrect. Israel nowadays gets essentially no economic aid from the USA. Plus most of the $2bil military stuff it does get has to be spent in the US buying US goods.

To my knowledge Israel has never defaulted on any debt. Loan guarantees are exactly what they are, guarantees, not cash! Since Israel has never defualted, it has never had to make acutal use of them.

Please do some homework before posting inaccuracies.

[Edited 2007-05-03 15:47:34]
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3):
LY is in urgent need for new planes to replace their ageing 767 fleet, yet the problem is they don't have money to finance the deal.

If they need new planes so urgently, why not order some more 767's? There's lots of potential slots on the 767 line, especially if the line gets sped up due to a big USAF tanker order. LY could get 767's much earlier than 787's especially if they could make a deal with Boeing and UPS to get some earlier slots.
 
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Stitch
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Thu May 03, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 43):
If they need new planes so urgently, why not order some more 767's? There's lots of potential slots on the 767 line...

767 production is quite slow now (is it even one a month?) and the line has secured a few scores of orders the past few years, so chances are LY could get 787s before they get 767s at current production rates.  Smile
 
aa1818
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Fri May 04, 2007 12:35 am

What sort of timeframe are we looking at here for an order???

AA1818
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pygmalion
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Fri May 04, 2007 1:06 am

Globe article in Israel.

Quote:
El Al Israel Airlines Ltd. (TASE: ELAL) plans to lease six or seven planes from Boeing Co. (NYSE:BA) in 2011-15. El Al chairman Israel Borovich and CEO Haim Romano have reached an agreement with Boeing representatives to this effect.
El Al decided to lease planes after cancelling its option to buy eight Boeing 787 Dreamliners, because of the contractual terms. The decision surprised airlines, because it is highly unusual to cancel such options, given the shortage of available planes.


El Al is also considering not selling two Boeing 767s after receiving delivery of two Boeing 777s this summer. El Al may use the 767s on its increasingly popular Moscow, Bucharest and other routes. The 777s will fly to London, Paris, New York and Far Eastern destinations.

Boeing and El Al have had a long relationship. Their engineering and maintenance staffs have worked together for half a century. I doubt that will change anytime soon.
 
JayinKitsap
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Fri May 04, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 44):
767 production is quite slow now (is it even one a month?)

In 2006 12 767's were delivered and 3 thru March. As of March 31, there were 61 unfilled orders. I recall reports at the time of the UPS order this spring that the production would be increased to around 1.5 per month. So the backlog is between 3 1/2 and 5 years. There is also that possible order for the KC-X
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Fri May 04, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 46):
In 2006 12 767's were delivered and 3 thru March. As of March 31, there were 61 unfilled orders. I recall reports at the time of the UPS order this spring that the production would be increased to around 1.5 per month. So the backlog is between 3 1/2 and 5 years. There is also that possible order for the KC-X

That's a backlog based on the minimum rate of one per month to keep the line moving. There's a lot of latent capacity ont that line. They've also launched the 767-200LRF and 767-300LRF. If there are more freigher orders, Boeing could decide to speed up the line. Boeing could build anywhere from one to six 767's per month if they wanted. Airbus on the other hand, has a very busy A330/A340 line churning out compensatory A330's for A380 customers. It would be more difficult and expensive for them to speed up their A330/A340 line than Boeing to speed up the 767 line. If a customer wanted a large fleet of new medium wide bodied freighers as soon as possible, Boeing could have more slots available sooner. Sixty-One orders is five years at the current rate. If there are any more big orders, Boeing would need to increase the production rate anyway. Some existing customers might be happy with their current deliveriy times, so addtional slots resulting from a line speed up could be available for earlier deliveries.
 
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Stitch
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Fri May 04, 2007 6:12 am

Remember that the 767 suppliers themselves have to ramp up production of the components. When the line went something to one plane every 1.5 months, I imagine most of those suppliers sought other business to stay afloat. As such, there may not be that much "latent capacity" available at those suppliers to feed Boeing and allow them to quickly ramp production up.
 
todaReisinger
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RE: El Al Renews Talks For Boeing 787s

Fri May 04, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 40):
From this point of view It would be the most efficient with LY's fleet to have ony Airbus Aircraft in it's fleet.

That's an unending debate...and an all-Boeing fleet can also be an excellent option.


*

How will there be 787s available for lease if there's such a shortage and a high demand? What are the cost of such a leasing scheme?

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 42):
If they need new planes so urgently, why not order some more 767's?

That's what LY has done: 3 763s were added to the fleet between 2004 and 2006, but these are second hand planes. some are quite old; LY needs new airplanes for the near future.
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)