nijltje
Posts: 231
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BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Wed May 02, 2007 10:04 pm

Speach of the Belgian PM Guy Verhofstadt

http://premier.fgov.be/nl/premier/speeches/2007/30152.html

quote

That is why I am proud to be able to announce today a great moment for both Jet Airways and Brussels Airport. As of today, Brussels is the European hub for Jet Airways. With this move, Brussels will become the gateway between the Americas, Europe, Asia and Africa. As of today, Jet Airways is our connection to Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, Bangalore and Ahmedabad, on the one hand, and New York, Toronto, Chicago and Los Angeles on the other. Via India, we also have a platform for other destinations, such as Singapore, Bangkok and, in the longer run, Shanghai and Hong Kong. For its part, Brussels Airlines is the connection to a multitude of destinations in Europe and Africa. In short, with today's cooperative venture the world is linked via Brussels.

More specifically, as of August there will be four return Mumbai-Brussels-New York and Delhi-Brussels-Toronto flights per day. Starting in 2008, that will rise to six flights. The ultimate goal is ten flights per day. That means 3,200 passengers per day. Or one million extra passengers per year for Zaventem.
 
gkirk
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Wed May 02, 2007 10:07 pm

Good news for BRU and 9W
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emptyarm
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Wed May 02, 2007 10:13 pm

Wise choice from 9W, BRU has plenty of potential

Good luck
 
brightcedars
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Wed May 02, 2007 10:26 pm

All I can say is congratulations to Brussels Airport, Brussels Airlines and Jet Airways in particular!

A link to Japan and one to South America - maybe also South Africa, are probably what's left missing (mainly).
Some more Gulf carriers may venture in the Brussels market but the market will be less attractive with this offering.
And of course a decent airline on BRU-BEY or vice-versa would be sweet!  Wink
I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
 
incitatus
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Wed May 02, 2007 11:06 pm

In the long run this is a losing strategy. It won't last more than a few years. Jet needs to hub in either Bombay or Delhi or Bangalore and fly nonstops to the US - lots of them.

Bombay-Brussels-NY?... Duh! Soon there will be two US carriers doing it nonstop. No matter how good Jet's service is, it will have difficulty attracting traffic.
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behramjee
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Wed May 02, 2007 11:07 pm

So it seems that ORD and LAX will be routed via BRU...surprising though that IAH and IAD were not mentioned...hopefully they have other EU points in mind as the stopover city for IAH and IAD bound flights.

BRU-LAX is an interesting routing...though it would be better if flown via the Pacific than BRU.
 
nijltje
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Wed May 02, 2007 11:26 pm

Maybe they will loose some pax due of not flying direct but they will gain a lot of PAX in Europe by working very close with SN....and why should you have your hub in BOM if you can have a great underutilized infrastructure in the middle of Europe.

Everyone thinks that the national airlinne needs his hub in their originating country....9W management is just thinking out of the box. so not small plane to big plane but big to big
 
Scorpio
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Wed May 02, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 4):
In the long run this is a losing strategy.

I don't see why. With those flights, they'll be offering one-stop services from Bombay to not only NY (both EWR and JFK) but also Toronto, Los Angeles, Chicago, half of Africa, and all of Europe (with SN codeshare). Remember, they're not just flying a 'one-stop' flight, they're building a true hub here. Sure, the route you picked might attract more paasenger if flown direct, but I doubt there's a market big enough to justify, say, direct flights Bangalore - NY, Bangalore - Chicago, Bangalore - LA, Bangalore - Toronto, and all those destinations direct from Chennai or Ahmedabad.

I see this as a true win-win situation for both 9W and SN: 9W gets a whole bunch of European and African routes to feed into, and SN gets a whole range of long-range destinations to feed.
 
detroitflyer
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Wed May 02, 2007 11:47 pm

i dont understand this, why would brussels allow an indian carrier to serve their airport, instead of protecting SN ?? Do they just give 9W a blank check as to how many flights they can serve??

Also if i were 9W i would try and do these routes non-stop, cuz in this day and age it is possible!!! so why not???
Boiler Up!!!
 
LAXDESI
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Wed May 02, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 4):
In the long run this is a losing strategy. It won't last more than a few years. Jet needs to hub in either Bombay or Delhi or Bangalore and fly nonstops to the US - lots of them.

It remains to be seen. Does anyone know the ratio of passengers to HKG from NYC/LAX on non-stop versus one-stop flights?

Quoting Nijltje (Reply 6):
Maybe they will loose some pax due of not flying direct but they will gain a lot of PAX in Europe by working very close with SN....and why should you have your hub in BOM if you can have a great underutilized infrastructure in the middle of Europe.

I would avoid BOM/DEL as a hub in favor of a stop in Europe or Pacific. The key for Jet is to offer direct services to BRU from cities beside BOM/DEL.
 
Scorpio
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 12:02 am

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 8):
Also if i were 9W i would try and do these routes non-stop, cuz in this day and age it is possible!!! so why not???

Because they'd eventually need to start up the following routes direct:

Bombay to:
JFK
EWR
LAX
YYZ
ORD

Delhi to:
JFK
EWR
LAX
YYZ
ORD

Chennai to:
JFK
EWR
LAX
YYZ
ORD

Ahmedabad to:
JFK
EWR
LAX
YYZ
ORD

and Bangalore to:
JFK
EWR
LAX
YYZ
ORD

Because those are the 25 routes they'll be offering one-stop between India and North America with this scheme.

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 8):
why would brussels allow an indian carrier to serve their airport, instead of protecting SN ?? Do they just give 9W a blank check as to how many flights they can serve??

How exactly would they be 'protecting SN' by allowing an airline to fly to destinations SN doesn't serve, to continents SN doesn't serve?
 
mayhem
Posts: 153
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 12:02 am

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 8):
i dont understand this, why would brussels allow an indian carrier to serve their airport, instead of protecting SN ?

There is very little SN to protect. SN doesn't have the funds to grow on itself, so if the European flights get a higher loadfactor thanks to the codeshare with 9W, that would be a good deal.
Further if you mean the Belgian government by "brussels", then i suppose that they support 9W for using BRU and bringing more long-haul flights (which for us are direct flights) to new destinations.

I do however hope 9W realises the political mess at BRU on noise abatements  Yeah sure
 
brightcedars
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting Mayhem (Reply 11):
I do however hope 9W realises the political mess at BRU on noise abatements

The 777-300ER, A330-200 and 787s aren't to be considered the loudest flying objects by far.

Of course this isn't going to last for 20 years and of course they will be opening nonstop between India and these North American destinations, but it's a very good startup strategy. BOM & DEL-NYC may soon or late warrant nonstop, but not all other combinations, at least not in the reasonable future.

SN is a local player at the mercy of any sign of aggressivity by any larger surrounding carriers or low-cost operators, if there is one thing, this agreement is strenghening their position rather than weakening it.
I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
 
vtnyc
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 7):
9W gets a whole bunch of European and African routes to

that's stretching it a bit. Who would want to fly India-Africa or US-Africa via BRU?

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 7):
Bangalore - NY, Bangalore - Chicago, Bangalore - LA, Bangalore - Toronto

one can only hope for thrice a week COK-BRU-IAD (plug for MK777) or CCU-BRU-IAH. I see them competing against the likes of EK, BA, LH, AF rather than AI and the U.S. carriers.

VT-NYC
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MaverickM11
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 10):
How exactly would they be 'protecting SN' by allowing an airline to fly to destinations SN doesn't serve, to continents SN doesn't serve?

How is SN going to serve them now?

Quoting VTNYC (Reply 13):
US-Africa via BRU?

That was SN's business plan basically; plus most of AF's African services are timed to connect with Transatlantic flights.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
behramjee
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 7):
half of Africa

I honestly doubt that African routes would be flown via BRU !!!
 
manni
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting VTNYC (Reply 13):
US-Africa via BRU?

People have been flying US-EUROPE-AFRICA for ages. The amount of transit passengers in BRU that fly between Africa and the US (on CO, DL and AA then further on SN) is nothing to laugh at. How many scheduled flights are there currently between the US and Africa?
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kiramakora
Posts: 472
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
How is SN going to serve them now?

Passengers flying out of Africa (using SN) can now connect on 9W service ex-BRU to EWR, YYZ, and soon ORD and LAX. To a lesser degree, one-stop service to both U.S. and India via BRU for those in Europe using SN. I actually think this is a risky 9W strategy but with potential for big payoffs. As I have mentioned in my posts before, Belgium consistently ranks as India's largest/2nd largest trade market in Europe and people are undemining the demand for O/D (especially J-F O/D) on this sector.
 
Scorpio
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting VTNYC (Reply 13):
Who would want to fly India-Africa or US-Africa via BRU?

Check AA's flights to BRU, and you'll see more than a few passengers are connecting to Africa in BRU.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
How is SN going to serve them now?

Codesharing. They've already signed codeshare agreements for the flights to BOM, DEL and YYZ. SN doesn't have the funds (or the ambition, really) to build a large network to North America or India.

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 12):
BOM & DEL-NYC may soon or late warrant nonstop, but not all other combinations, at least not in the reasonable future.

Even if they do start serving NYC non-stop, I don't see them dropping the flights via Brussels, even the flights like BOM - BRU - EWR. Passengers for NY will take the non-stop service, those to all the other destination will take the one-stop via BRU.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 15):
I honestly doubt that African routes would be flown via BRU !!!

Codeshare with SN.

[Edited 2007-05-02 17:37:03]
 
mk777
Posts: 888
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 12:39 am

Personally, a one stop flight to the US is what i prefer rather than those 16 hour flights non-stop. I usually fly cattle class and would much rather stretch my leg after 7 to 8 hours than 13-16 hours. Besides i get to see another airport on the way.

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 12):
BOM & DEL-NYC may soon or late warrant nonstop, but not all other combinations, at least not in the reasonable future.

I concur.

I think 9W is trying to get a feel of what its like flying to North America. Give them time. I am sure they will do non-stop but they would like to add future destinations in N. America, just like many others have suggested in the discussion- IAH, IAD, BOS, maybe even SEA and YVR.

It will be interesting if 9W would offer service to MCO during the peak summer travel when school is off in India so folks can take their kids to disney world, this way they can tap the Florida market and test it to see if it warrants a 12 month service. just some ideas.

Quoting VTNYC (Reply 13):
COK-BRU-IAD (plug for MK777)

You know that would be great, just waiting for the damn announcement, but i feel this route might be, as Behramjee suggested, DEL-GVA-IAD, since there is no service b/w GVA and IAD at the moment, this route would work well for 9W

Nonetheless 9W at IAD would make my day  Smile
come fly with me
 
MaverickM11
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 18):
SN doesn't have the funds (or the ambition, really) to build a large network to North America or India.

That has never stopped many a EU country from protecting their airlines before...why start now? Particularly with a non-EU carrier? EU countries are still trying various (likely illegal) shenanigans to protect their companies from cross border takeovers; I'm just surprised that Belgium is not putting up a fight at all.....yet.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Scorpio
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
That has never stopped many a EU country from protecting their airlines before...why start now?

Once again: how on earth are they hurting SN by giving them a whole slew of long-haul flights to feed into? If anything, they're actually HELPING them.

Besides, I don't know whether you know or not, but SN is not government-owned.

What do you suggest they do? Sit around hoping for SN to one day, maybe, consider flying to either of those destinations?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
EU countries are still trying various (likely illegal) shenanigans to protect their companies from cross border takeovers

Just to remind you: in the EU cross-border takeovers of airlines are actually allowed, unlike in another country that proclaims to everyone how they are the shinig beacon of free trade and capitalism...
 
kiramakora
Posts: 472
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 21):
in the EU cross-border takeovers of airlines are actually allowed, unlike in another country that proclaims to everyone how they are the shinig beacon of free trade and capitalism...

Lets not deviate from the topic at hand. I could write a thesis on trade policies of some EU countries (um, France), and another on when it comes to how some EU countries handle anything outside EU (um, France). Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, Finland, England, all represent more liberal EU countries that understand that the concept of economic nationalism is self defeating in a globalized world.
 
as739x
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 2:13 am

So San Francisco (SFO) will still be served via China?

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
LurveBus
Posts: 218
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 21):
Once again: how on earth are they hurting SN by giving them a whole slew of long-haul flights to feed into? If anything, they're actually HELPING them.

This is a very good point. If anything, for the next few years, 9W will be actually developing demand for nonstop routes from Brussels to the US. When the day comes that 9W will drop their hub in Brussels in favor of nonstops from India, SN could fill the void.
 
incitatus
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 7):
I don't see why. With those flights, they'll be offering one-stop services from Bombay to not only NY (both EWR and JFK) but also Toronto, Los Angeles, Chicago, half of Africa, and all of Europe (with SN codeshare).

Air Canada is now getting 777LRs. Toronto to India nonstop is just a question of time. India to Africa via Brussels does not sound smart. The Middle Eastern carriers will eat them alive. Finally, many Jet Airways India-US services will contain two stops while flying Singapore Air or Emirates will get people to their destinations with a single stop.

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 19):
Personally, a one stop flight to the US is what i prefer rather than those 16 hour flights non-stop. I usually fly cattle class and would much rather stretch my leg after 7 to 8 hours than 13-16 hours.

Then the existence of a Jet Airways transfer point at Brussels will do little for you. Large US city to BOM/DEL/MAA/BLR is a market well covered and that will continue to be covered by a variety of European carriers even after the Indian carriers get a sense of their future.
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WestWing
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 4:24 am

I guess 9W will be very convenient for the premium passengers shuttling between Surat and Antwerp.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
behramjee
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 4:27 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 25):
many Jet Airways India-US services will contain two stops while flying Singapore Air or Emirates will get people to their destinations with a single stop.

not really hence the BRU hub announcement which will see all the major Indian metro cities connected with BRU nonstop.

so all major indian metros will thus offer one stop India-BRU-USA flights...2 stops will only be on offer from TRV/HYD/COK as they havent been earmarked for BRU flights which is sensible.

However, I seriously doubt the feasibility of making a MAA/CCU-BRU flight work as it mainly will be reliant on low yielding 6th freedom traffic from Europe and USA.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15261
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 21):
Once again: how on earth are they hurting SN by giving them a whole slew of long-haul flights to feed into? If anything, they're actually HELPING them.

You're being rational, which is not what state governments do.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 21):
What do you suggest they do? Sit around hoping for SN to one day, maybe, consider flying to either of those destinations?

That's what they've done in the past!

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 21):
Just to remind you: in the EU cross-border takeovers of airlines are actually allowed, unlike in another country that proclaims to everyone how they are the shinig beacon of free trade and capitalism...

They are in theory, but you might want to ask E.On or Airbus about that.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
vtnyc
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 4:50 am

This calls for a self contained areas at BOM, DEL, BLR and MAA for 9W to handle their transit passengers who undoubtedly will materialize once hub BRU is in place. What are the chances of them offering BRU-BLR-BKK or BRU-BLR-SIN and may be even BRU-BLR-SYD!!! At least 9W can control the quality of service for their passengers in transit rather than subject them to the indifferent service from the AIA folks.

VT-NYC
First Flight, PA001 DEL-FRA-LHR-JFK; Dream- JFK-COK on a B6 787
 
Scorpio
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 25):
Air Canada is now getting 777LRs. Toronto to India nonstop is just a question of time.

And yet I very much doubt they're going to fly direct to all five Indian cities that 9W is planning on connecting through BRU.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 25):
India to Africa via Brussels does not sound smart.

9W isn't going to fly those routes themselves, they'll just be offering connections on SN. And the destinations SN serves are in many cases central African destinations not served by ME carriers.

Many people here seem to have unrealistic expectations of non-stop flights. These ultra-long range flights are not going to eliminate the need for hubs. They will be limited largely to linking large centers, e.g. New York - Mumbai or Toronto - Delhi. Smaller pairs will still need to be linked through a hub, and with all the connections provided in BRU, there is plenty of potential for this hub to succeed. Not every city on earth is going to be linked direct to every other city on earth, and that's something some people appear to be forgetting.

[Edited 2007-05-02 22:15:55]
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 1934
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 5:11 am

Quoting Kiramakora (Reply 22):
Switzerland

Switzerland is not an EU member. It is, however party to some of the key economic agreements, and common travel areas.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 27):
However, I seriously doubt the feasibility of making a MAA/CCU-BRU flight work as it mainly will be reliant on low yielding 6th freedom traffic from Europe and USA.

I guess teh idea of teh hub is that everyone can swap around once they get to BRU, so tehy could end up in any of the destinations served by 9W (or SN) from BRU.

Im not so sure that this is an entirely good idea. A hub at BRU has not worked in teh past. However, perhaps with all teh extra Indian passengers and transits, there is more reason for it to succeed.

Brian.
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worldtraveler
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 10):

Because those are the 25 routes they'll be offering one-stop between India and North America with this scheme.

Have you counted the number of connections that LH and BA offer to India over their European hubs - and in many cases they can connect pax faster than the timing for a one stop flight.

This strategy will not work against CO, DL, and NW who all have a presence in India and will develop nonstop routes using 787s and 777LRs.
 
vincewy
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:32 am

RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 10:35 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 4):
In the long run this is a losing strategy. It won't last more than a few years. Jet needs to hub in either Bombay or Delhi or Bangalore and fly nonstops to the US - lots of them.

Bombay-Brussels-NY?... Duh! Soon there will be two US carriers doing it nonstop. No matter how good Jet's service is, it will have difficulty attracting traffic.

I personally prefer scissor hub (for countries with more than 2 majors cities connecting to more than 2 long haul destinations over 15 hours) , don't NW and UA do the same at NRT, this opens up tons of connection possibilities, the way I see it, BOM and DEL can use A380s, ending up at either JFK/EWR or YYZ. Other routes can use 777s to supplement the 2 afore-mentioned prime routes.

15 hours nonstop operations are very expensive, IMO only SQ can sustain such burden with premium markets, just ask how TG's doing with their LAX and JFK nonstops. If there's only ONE MAJOR city in India, this would be feasible, but there're BOM, DEL, BLR, CCU, HYD, MAA not to mention ATQ, AMD, COK as possibilities, plus 9W can later experiment certain cities pairs with smaller aircrafts like 787 (ATQ-BRU-IAH), this way from IAH one can get to all cities in India with one stop. Ideally I'd love to see another hub of such in Far East, PEK and ICN are the best geographic locations, to SFO, LAX, and YVR.

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 8):
i dont understand this, why would brussels allow an indian carrier to serve their airport, instead of protecting SN ?? Do they just give 9W a blank check as to how many flights they can serve??

Just ask DXB and BKK, without their open policies, they wouldn't be where they're today, anyone smart enough would want to open their markets, the airport gets more landing/operation revenues, more people to spend $$$ at transit, vitalize the local economies. In fact, BRU wasn't very happy when SQ pulled out of BRU stopover out of their US flights years ago, I'd really like to see BRU work it out with 9W this time.

[Edited 2007-05-03 03:42:46]
 
mk777
Posts: 888
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 25):
Then the existence of a Jet Airways transfer point at Brussels will do little for you.

No offense, but I rather fly an Indian carrier over any european carrier for my flights to India, so it would do a lot for me, the crew and the inflight service of 9W is way better than most european carriers, though i have to say i have only flown 9W domestically.  Smile
come fly with me
 
detroitflyer
Posts: 369
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 3:12 pm

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 34):
crew and the inflight service of 9W is way better than most european carriers, though i have to say i have only flown 9W domestically.

im really surprised you have said that. Hasent BA consistently ranked higher???

Also just a question but if SN does grow, can the begian government eventually kick 9W out or are there bilateral treaties going on here
Boiler Up!!!
 
vincewy
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 4:02 pm

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 35):
im really surprised you have said that. Hasent BA consistently ranked higher???

Also just a question but if SN does grow, can the begian government eventually kick 9W out or are there bilateral treaties going on here

9W has been giving serious competition to the domestic sectors in India, now it's time to do this in the international arena, proving once again that you don't have to be LCC to be successful. Another VERY underrated airline in Asia is Bangkok Airways, great services and caterings, it's time some of those countries get serious competitors to their respective national airlines, forcing them to treat customers better and improve their products. Those changes took place in Taiwan and South Korea in the early 90s and had positive impact in the local aviation industries. (more jobs, more/better services, easier to book flights [greater availabilities], etc)

In the old days of Sabena, their primary yields came from Africa, their N American and Asian routes were losing money (even NRT couldn't be profitable), strictly my opinion, I think it was due to extensive networks offered by BA, AF, and LH. To be realistic, BRU will never be like LHR, CDG, FRA, not even AMS. In the end, SN will probably want to expand into the areas where they do best (West/Central Africa, regional, Middle East) and get some help from other airlines to enhance their networks, a win-win situation.
 
VC10DC10
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 4:27 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 32):
This strategy will not work against CO, DL, and NW

Well, nonstops are all well and good, but NW has been using more-or-less exactly this strategy for years now in NRT and AMS. NW jets leave the USA going westbound to NRT and then do a follow-on trip to another East Asian city (SEL, MNL, HKG, SIN, BKK, TPE, PEK, you get the idea). But passengers from MSP (whose 747-400 is going on to MNL), for example, can transfer to the 747-400 headed Raffles-wards (SIN) in Narita. Hence, NW has service to Tokyo from SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, HNL, MSP, and DTW (and is expected to resume JFK with the 787 and perhaps add another city or two, possibly BOS) while serving a wide number of cities in Asia as well. Brilliantly simple. Northwest does virtually the same thing across the Atlantic with its longtime partner KLM: people from SEA, MSP, DTW, MEM, MOS, EWR, and now Hartford (sorry, don't remember the code  Smile) can go anywhere their heart desires on the other side of the pond thanks to a place known as Schipol, home of blue Boeings (and Douglases and Airbii, too).

For all I know, Jet Airways could have chosen Brussels based precisely on the Schipol model.
 
Nimish
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 5:44 pm

Quoting AS739X (Reply 23):
So San Francisco (SFO) will still be served via China?

That seems to be the current plan, with a BOM-PVG-SFO daily flight being the only transpacific sector planned right now. The rest are all converging on a transatlantic routing via BRU.

It would be great if they added on a BRU-SFO sector as well - providing a round the world flight on their own metal!

I think it's time the India-Belgium bilateral got redone - the last bilateral I could find (May 2005) allows for only 21 weekly frequencies between India and Belgium.
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keesje
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 6:47 pm

During the last ten yrs BRU was dwarfed by CDG, SPL and LHR.

Good to see they found a new ambitious partner to restart hub operations.

Very important will no doubt be the feed Brussels Airlines can realize from the UK airports..
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amirs
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 7:33 pm

Once they start to add more traffic, they should throw in nonstop DEL/BOM-NYC, before they add more DEL/BOM - BRU - NYC flights.
Or add BOM - NYC,
DEL - YYZ

If i were in DEL i would predfer to fly short flight to BOM to catch nonstop overnight to NYC, than to fly via BRU (two medium distance flights) - and vice versa.
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Thu May 03, 2007 7:47 pm

Congrats to 9W and SN, i'm sure this partnership will work very well for both carriers  Smile




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Humberside
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Fri May 04, 2007 2:44 am

With Brussels Airlines not codesharing on BRU-EWR, can Jet Airways sell the route themselves?
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15a
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Fri May 04, 2007 3:06 am

On the whole one stop vs non stop debate. i suspect the decision to go one stop is cold economics. they will never have the intra-us feed that an american carrier like continental or delta can pull.
Also, atleast 4-6 cities in the US can be proftitably served (with origin traffic) with a daily flight to INDIA but not a daily flight to any one city in India ..and if its a choice between flying one stop via bombay or one stop via europe...i am not too sure people will pick the one stop via bombay (i for one would definitely not)...
the non stops go with restrictions whereas the one stops can carry cargo and all...therefore go for a one stop in europe scissors hub strategy.
I think they will eventually (after they get the 787s) open one or two showpiece non stop routes..but i expect them to keep building the one stops.
I am sure they would love to do a scissors hub going transpacific as well but the current bilaterals are a constraint (funnily enough the india china ones are probably the most open and even there, only 14 flights a week beyond China are allowed). I am sure given half a chance, they would love to make PVG or HKG a scissors hub...but that will not happen in the near future (hence the choice of going Blr-LAX via Brussels).
 
EnviroTO
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Fri May 04, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting Nijltje (Thread starter):
More specifically, as of August there will be four return Mumbai-Brussels-New York and Delhi-Brussels-Toronto flights per day.

Did he mean to say four per week? I can't imagine four flights a day between Brussels and Toronto let alone the future predictions of six to ten.
 
WestWing
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Fri May 04, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 44):
Did he mean to say four per week? I can't imagine four flights a day between Brussels and Toronto let alone the future predictions of six to ten.

I think he meant that on each day BRU would see the following four flights passing thru BRU

BOM-BRU-NYC
NYC-BRU-BOM
DEL-BRU-YYZ
YYZ-BRU-DEL
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incitatus
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Fri May 04, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 30):
Many people here seem to have unrealistic expectations of non-stop flights.

Many people here seem to have unrealistic expectations of 1-stop flights.  Wink

It is just a question of time Emirates will serve secondary destinations in India such as Udaipur, which is a very good place for the wealthy to spend money. Somebody living in Houston will be able to get there IAH-DXB-UDR. Now let's do it with Jet: IAH-ORD on somebody else, ORD-BRU-DEL-UDR on Jet. Even the service from New York will be at a disadvantage.

Can you show markets where Jet will have routings superior to its competitors?

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 30):
These ultra-long range flights are not going to eliminate the need for hubs.

Agree 100%, but it will influence where those hubs are located and the kinds of nonstop services from hubs. Who said ULR is only for point to point travel?

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 33):
don't NW and UA do the same at NRT, this opens up tons of connection possibilities, the way I see it, BOM and DEL can use A380s, ending up at either JFK/EWR or YYZ. Other routes can use 777s to supplement the 2 afore-mentioned prime routes.

PanAm did it London and shut it down. PanAm did in Frankfurt, Delta got it and shut it down. TWA did it in Paris and shut it down. UA is doing it in Tokyo, and it got smaller in favor of nonstops to China/HK. NW still does it in Tokyo relying on local traffic, but hey, when it comes to air traffic, Brussels is no Tokyo, not even close!

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 30):
9W isn't going to fly those routes themselves, they'll just be offering connections on SN. And the destinations SN serves are in many cases central African destinations not served by ME carriers.

How many people from India want to go to these African destinations not served by Middle Eastern carriers? I have not found a single meaningful African capital not served by either Emirates or Kenya Air or Ethiopian. Connecting in Brussels to go from India to Africa is like connecting in Perth to go from India to Japan.
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Scorpio
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Fri May 04, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 46):

Don't you love it when armchair CEOs are convinced they know better how to run an airline than the real CEOs? Always cracks me up...

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 46):
It is just a question of time Emirates will serve secondary destinations in India such as Udaipur, which is a very good place for the wealthy to spend money. Somebody living in Houston will be able to get there IAH-DXB-UDR. Now let's do it with Jet: IAH-ORD on somebody else, ORD-BRU-DEL-UDR on Jet. Even the service from New York will be at a disadvantage.

Has it ever occurred to you that 9W just might not be going for the passenger flying from Houston to Udaipur with this scheme? And who's to say other cities, like IAH and UDR will not at one point be added to this hub? By using examples such as yours, one can "prove" any hub and any flight useless.
 
karan69
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Fri May 04, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 47):
And who's to say other cities, like IAH and UDR will not at one point be added to this hub? By using examples such as yours, one can "prove" any hub and any flight useless.

Good point, and also we have to consider is UDR capable of handling EK category aircraft, also EK will have to heavily bribe AAI to designate UDR to international Airport Status.

Karan
 
incitatus
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RE: BRU Will Receive Up To 10 9W Flights A Day

Fri May 04, 2007 11:28 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 47):
Don't you love it when armchair CEOs are convinced they know better how to run an airline than the real CEOs? Always cracks me up...

Let me ask again, as there was no answer. Are there any routings where the network of Jet with a hub in Brussels will offer more convenient, quicker service between the US and India? The answer is no. Jet Airways with a hub in Brussels is just duplicating the multistop service offered by BA, LH, AF, LX, AZ, KL.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 47):
Has it ever occurred to you that 9W just might not be going for the passenger flying from Houston to Udaipur with this scheme?

Which nonstop has a better chance of success: DXB-UDR, BRU-UDR? DXB would have lots more local traffic, and it would draw from all the US/Europe pool of passengers BRU would, plus from the Middle East, now flush with oil money.

UDR is just an example. Pretty much all Jet Airways routings are inferior or at most equivalent to those offered by competitors. Jet does not seem to be going for any passenger except those eager to get a cheap fare by enduring 3 or 4 flights to get where they are going.
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