thomasphoto60
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IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Fri May 04, 2007 10:25 pm

Just discovered this post via the IAH Spotters Club, thanks to the club's ever intrepid, Jim 'tiger671'

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iahspottersclub/message/28702

Comments?

Thomas

[Edited 2007-05-04 15:27:54]
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Fri May 04, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Thread starter):
the IAH Spotters Club

Yep those guys are good!  Smile

IAH-ABZ would be wonderful...especially for CO to take the route on.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Fri May 04, 2007 10:48 pm

Oil traffic - plain and simple. I would think this is a banker if they can block book the seats for a year or so. Does it say who is looking at doing the route? I would think a A319CJ or 737-700BBJ would be ideal. Privatair maybe?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Fri May 04, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
Does it say who is looking at doing the route? I would think a A319CJ or 737-700BBJ would be ideal. Privatair maybe?

They're mum on that but I too thought of Privatair when I first read the article.

Should be interesting to see if anything happens in the coming months.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
CALMSP
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Fri May 04, 2007 11:15 pm

unfortunately, it wont be us  Sad
 
2travel2know
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Fri May 04, 2007 11:22 pm

Before any IAH-ABZ commercial scheduled flights, CO might well start a EWR-ABZ service.
Doesn't CO fly IAH-ANC - a similar EWR-ABZ distance - with B737-700/800 ?
EWR (40°41'33"N 74°10'07"W) ABZ (57°12'07"N 02°11'52"W) 44° (NE) 2861 nm
IAH (29°59'04"N 95°20'29"W) ANC (61°10'28"N 149°59'47"W) 327° (NW) 2838 nm
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 5):
Doesn't CO fly IAH-ANC - a similar EWR-ABZ distance - with B737-700/800 ?

Yes (on a 738), but I'm not sure that any of COs 737s are ETOPS, which would obviously be necessary.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
drerx7
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
Yes (on a 738), but I'm not sure that any of COs 737s are ETOPS, which would obviously be necessary.

They are if I'm not mistaken--but they don't have BusinessFirst...which they'd need.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
but I'm not sure that any of COs 737s are ETOPS

Our 738s are. They fly the Pacific every day (out of GUM).
You can't cure stupid
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
not sure that any of COs 737s are ETOPS

I think all the CO 700's, 800's, and even the 900's are ETOPS......Hey EWRCabincrew, confirm or deny my thinking please SIR!  Smile
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
BA787
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 1:44 am

If this is such an ideal route, would it not be possible for BA to start the service. Maybe with a 752 (i think some are ETOPS).

Using an LHR crew, like they do for MAN, I think this could work well
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 9):
Hey EWRCabincrew, confirm or deny my thinking please SIR!

Our 800s are. Our others, since we do fly to points where it's overwater, I would assume are. I need to do some research. I need to be more informed (hangs head in shame).
You can't cure stupid
 
Cubsrule
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 8):
Our 738s are. They fly the Pacific every day (out of GUM).

Does Air Mike not have its own subfleet anymore?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
Does Air Mike not have its own subfleet anymore?

I don't know about a subfleet, but dedicated a/c for their operations (save the 764s which are flown throughout the CO system) Air Mike's birds are CO equipment.
You can't cure stupid
 
2travel2know
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 7):
They are if I'm not mistaken--but they don't have BusinessFirst...which they'd need.

Rightnow, CO is flying B737 without BusinessFirst IAH-ANC and EWR-GYE, two routes with similar mileage than EWR-ABZ, I understand they want to keep the same level of service on all their European operations, so It'll be a bit unlikely that they would re-configure 1 or 2 B737 with BusinessFirst cabin just to fly to EWR-ABZ (or BFS, SNN - if the B757 is needed somewherelse).
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):
Rightnow, CO is flying B737 without BusinessFirst

None of our 737s have the B/F cabin, nor will they. They just have regular first class seats. Nor will the 737 go trans-Atlantic.

We also no longer fly EWR-GYE non-stop. The service is through IAH.
You can't cure stupid
 
CALMSP
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 15):

thank goodness!!!
 
gkirk
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
If this is such an ideal route, would it not be possible for BA to start the service. Maybe with a 752 (i think some are ETOPS).

ABZ isn't London so no chance in hell of BA starting it.
Privatair or KLM (or both)  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
iclcy
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 5):
Before any IAH-ABZ commercial scheduled flights, CO might well start a EWR-ABZ service

Think yr missing the point. Aberdeen is the oil/gas centre of Scotland/UK ABZ is the jumping off point for the various oil/gas platforms in the North Sea. Aberdeen has more incommon with IAH than EWR. ABZ-EWR flights would only be usefull to a few grannies on a shopping trip. Where as ABZ-IAH oil execs/workers i.e the money makers etc.
 
Analog
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 7:07 am

How would this work legally? This would be a 7th freedom thing (Dutch airline from UK to US), right? Is this currently allowed, or would it be something falling under the new Open Skies agreement?

Speaking of that, how does the KL IAH-AMS Privatair flight work? Why is the fact that the aircraft is Swiss operated/owned not an issue?
 
ARGinLON
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 15):
None of our 737s have the B/F cabin, nor will they. They just have regular first class seats. Nor will the 737 go trans-Atlantic.

We also no longer fly EWR-GYE non-stop. The service is through IAH.

Please explain why CO does not currently consider dedicating a 737-700 fleet with a BF product only to serve high yield BF destinations? e.g. ABZ, AMS, LOS and other African destinations.

Is this a only matter of consistency in the fleet/product? (I heard this here before). If that’s the case, to what extent can you justify such policy if you see your competitors take over lucrative markets?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 11:29 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 13):

I don't know about a subfleet, but dedicated a/c for their operations (save the 764s which are flown throughout the CO system) Air Mike's birds are CO equipment.

That's a little weird. If the routes ex-GUM are the only 738 routes which require ETOPS (which, to my knowledge, they are), it seems wasteful to maintain all the 738s to ETOPS standards.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 11:41 am

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 20):

Please explain why CO does not currently consider dedicating a 737-700 fleet with a BF product only to serve high yield BF destinations? e.g. ABZ, AMS, LOS and other African destinations.

I wish I could explain it. CO would make a small mint doing it. Unfortunately, I am not in charge.
You can't cure stupid
 
CALMSP
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 11:49 am

we use etops on many of our flights other than GUM routes...............in fact we just started our IAH-ANC runs with a 75 minute ETOP
 
Cubsrule
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 23):
we use etops on many of our flights other than GUM routes...............in fact we just started our IAH-ANC runs with a 75 minute ETOP

What part of that route requires ETOPS 75? It's pretty much all over land, and between airports in BC and AK, there should be no need for ETOPS
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
drerx7
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 12:44 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
What part of that route requires ETOPS 75? It's pretty much all over land, and between airports in BC and AK, there should be no need for ETOPS

Well remember ETOPS is also over desolate land areas too. Not sure if that is still applicable for IAH-ANC, I'd assume so ... North of BC.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
Cubsrule
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 12:56 pm

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 25):
Well remember ETOPS is also over desolate land areas too. Not sure if that is still applicable for IAH-ANC, I'd assume so ... North of BC.

ANC-CDV-YAK-JNU-PSG-YPR-YWL is all legal without ETOPS, and that's about the routing they would use.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
A340Spotter
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 4:18 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 23):
in fact we just started our IAH-ANC runs with a 75 minute ETOP

It's not an ETOPS flight.

Routes such as AUA-EWR, POS-EWR, EWR-PSE (due BDA "closure" w/CFR) are routes that sometimes use the 75 minute ETOPS. All of the 737-700/800/900s have the certification. The GUM based 738s (201, 227, 228, 232, 235, 236, 240, 246 and 249) have the 180 minute ETOPS certification and are maintained as such.

As for the IAH-ABZ service, it's likely the next "oil express" flight to come seeing how Sonair has kept the Luanda run going for well over 5 years now.
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
BA787
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 5:10 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 17):

Touche Big grin


Nice thought though Big grin
 
EDICHC
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 8:27 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 17):
Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
If this is such an ideal route, would it not be possible for BA to start the service. Maybe with a 752 (i think some are ETOPS).

ABZ isn't London so no chance in hell of BA starting it.
Privatair or KLM (or both)

Spot on there!

Correct me if I'm wrong but a 752 fuelled up for ABZ-IAH not be severly weight resticted? Runway at ABZ isn't exactly the longest.
A300/319/320/346 ATR72 B722/732/3/4/5/6/8/742/4/752/762/3/772/3 BAC111 BAe146 C172 DHC1/6/8 HS121 MD80 PA28
 
gkirk
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 29):
Correct me if I'm wrong but a 752 fuelled up for ABZ-IAH not be severly weight resticted? Runway at ABZ isn't exactly the longest.

Should be fine in Privatair config.
Not sure if a BBJ or ACJ could do it though?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
EDICHC
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sat May 05, 2007 9:39 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 30):
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 29):
Correct me if I'm wrong but a 752 fuelled up for ABZ-IAH not be severly weight resticted? Runway at ABZ isn't exactly the longest.

Should be fine in Privatair config.
Not sure if a BBJ or ACJ could do it though?

Quite agree there, but I was referring to the highly unlikely suggestion of an ETOPS 752 in standard config.
A300/319/320/346 ATR72 B722/732/3/4/5/6/8/742/4/752/762/3/772/3 BAC111 BAe146 C172 DHC1/6/8 HS121 MD80 PA28
 
Viscount724
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sun May 06, 2007 9:01 am

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 31):
Quoting Gkirk (Reply 30):
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 29):
Correct me if I'm wrong but a 752 fuelled up for ABZ-IAH not be severly weight resticted? Runway at ABZ isn't exactly the longest.

Should be fine in Privatair config.
Not sure if a BBJ or ACJ could do it though?

Quite agree there, but I was referring to the highly unlikely suggestion of an ETOPS 752 in standard config.

Regardless of passenger load, I doubt a BBJ or ACJ would be able to operate nonstop to IAH (4017 naut. mi.) off ABZ's current 6000 ft. runway. They are talking about a 1000 ft. extension sometime in the next few years.
 
gkirk
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sun May 06, 2007 9:04 am

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 31):
Quite agree there, but I was referring to the highly unlikely suggestion of an ETOPS 752 in standard config.

No chance.A normal 757 just doesnt have the range. A 757 in exec config however is a much better performer than an ACJ or a BBJ anyway thanks to the 757s phenomenal short runway performance
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
ARGinLON
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sun May 06, 2007 12:19 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 32):
Regardless of passenger load, I doubt a BBJ or ACJ would be able to operate nonstop to IAH (4017 naut. mi.) off ABZ's current 6000 ft. runway. They are talking about a 1000 ft. extension sometime in the next few years

WHat is is the range of an all business class configured PrivateAir? And of a 73G all business class (say 48 seats)?
 
Chugach
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sun May 06, 2007 1:26 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 23):
in fact we just started our IAH-ANC runs with a 75 minute ETOP



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 23):
What part of that route requires ETOPS 75? It's pretty much all over land, and between airports in BC and AK, there should be no need for ETOPS

Depending on the winds, CO can sometimes benefit by routing via the SEA or YVR VFR checkpoints, and then heading out over the Gulf of Alaska directly to ANC. Or, such as today, they will go almost north to about YXY and then track west to ANC. See below for examples.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/COA1584

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/COA781
GO ROCKETS
 
Cubsrule
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Sun May 06, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting Chugach (Reply 35):
Depending on the winds, CO can sometimes benefit by routing via the SEA or YVR VFR checkpoints, and then heading out over the Gulf of Alaska directly to ANC. Or, such as today, they will go almost north to about YXY and then track west to ANC. See below for examples.

But even SEA-ANC direct wouldn't require ETOPS. Do they really ever go so far out that they need it?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Chugach
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Mon May 07, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 36):

But even SEA-ANC direct wouldn't require ETOPS. Do they really ever go so far out that they need it?

It's not necessary, but CO still uses it on some of their flights. Compare CO flights vs. AS flights on that route as an example. AS always has to hug the coastline because they aren't ETOPS (at least until recently). If the winds are right, CO will often track to the Port Hardy VFR, then out over the open Gulf straight to ANC.
GO ROCKETS
 
Cubsrule
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Mon May 07, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting Chugach (Reply 37):
If the winds are right, CO will often track to the Port Hardy VFR, then out over the open Gulf straight to ANC.

Obviously, I'm not expert in weather in the northern Pacific, but a direct track YZT-ANC wouldn't seem to require ETOPS. Not doubting you, but they must get a long way out over the water to make it quick.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Joost
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Mon May 07, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 19):
How would this work legally? This would be a 7th freedom thing (Dutch airline from UK to US), right? Is this currently allowed, or would it be something falling under the new Open Skies agreement?

Under current regulations, it would indeed only be able to work as a 7th freedom and there are currently no flights between Europe and the US working on this agreement. It would indeed be well possible under the new Open Skies agreement. Trying to arrange 7th freedom would probably take more time than waiting for open skies  Wink

Quoting Analog (Reply 19):
Speaking of that, how does the KL IAH-AMS Privatair flight work? Why is the fact that the aircraft is Swiss operated/owned not an issue?

It is technically a KLM flight operating under KL flight number. The rights depend on the flight number, it doesn't matter who owns the aircraft or why operates it. It's KLM that takes the economic risks. Also for your information, all codeshare agreements are also subject to this. For example, NW can codeshare on KL flights to (among others) Germany, France and all UK airports except LGW/LHR, as there are open-skies agreements between those countries and the USA - so technicalle NW operates (under NW flight number) to these countries; however NW is not allowed and does not codeshare on KL flights to Spain or LHR, as they aren't allowed to operate to these countries. After the Open skies will be in effect, you'll immediately see a lot more codeshares (like NW on the KL-flights to LHR, MAD and BCN) in Europe to LHR/LGW, Ireland and Spain.
 
BA787
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Mon May 07, 2007 5:08 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 33):
757s phenomenal short runway performance

An amazing feeling when on one Big grin.


Ive said it before, the 757 hjas so many charectaristics that make me believe it was built with a huge passion. It didn't need those over powerful engines, it didn't need the lovely nose. Yes it may be circumstantial, but it seems to me like it was the last civil airliner built with a real passion for flying. The A380 is the closest thing I would see to challenge that title.
 
ei a330-200
Posts: 336
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Mon May 07, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 39):
Under current regulations, it would indeed only be able to work as a 7th freedom and there are currently no flights between Europe and the US working on this agreement. It would indeed be well possible under the new Open Skies agreement. Trying to arrange 7th freedom would probably take more time than waiting for open skies Wink

This is actually incorrect. I believe that TN operates LAX-CDG-LAX as 7th Freedom. Also, NZ operates LAX-LHR-LAX. Also, AI operates FRA-US flights, and LHR-US flights. Pretty sure these would be 7th Freedom. Pretty sure BG operates via Europe to the US. Also, MH and SQ operate to the US via Europe, I believe.
 
Viscount724
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Mon May 07, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting EI A330-200 (Reply 41):
This is actually incorrect. I believe that TN operates LAX-CDG-LAX as 7th Freedom. Also, NZ operates LAX-LHR-LAX. Also, AI operates FRA-US flights, and LHR-US flights. Pretty sure these would be 7th Freedom. Pretty sure BG operates via Europe to the US. Also, MH and SQ operate to the US via Europe, I believe.

Those are all 5th freedom, not 7th freedom services, except for TN LAX-CDG-LAX which I believe is considered 3rd/4th freedom since French Polynesia is a French Territory. Apart from TN, all the other routes you mention are 5th freedom as the flights in question originate/terminate in the carrier's home country.
 
artsyman
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Mon May 07, 2007 7:41 am

What part of that route requires ETOPS 75? It's pretty much all over land, and between airports in BC and AK, there should be no need for ETOPS
****

IAH-ANC stretches the legs of the 738 as far as they can go. This flight will be monitored heavily with ops to keep it right on maximum efficiency of winds and Continental will only assign the most efficient of their 738's to this route. I believe they are using Edmonton as their fuel evaluation point. There are a lot of terrain considerations with this routing also.
 
Chugach
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RE: IAH-ABZ Soon To Be A Reality?

Mon May 07, 2007 8:55 am

Quoting Artsyman (Reply 43):
IAH-ANC stretches the legs of the 738 as far as they can go. This flight will be monitored heavily with ops to keep it right on maximum efficiency of winds and Continental will only assign the most efficient of their 738's to this route. I believe they are using Edmonton as their fuel evaluation point. There are a lot of terrain considerations with this routing also.

Well, on that note, CO 1584 will be making a pit stop at PDX this evening enroute to ANC. First fuel stop of the season, I believe.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/COA1584
GO ROCKETS