airlittoralguy
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Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sat May 05, 2007 7:27 pm

Hi everyone :

I'd like to know what cities air france has left (longhaul speaking) or has reduced it's frequency to :

Those I can think of :

Nagoya
Cincinnati
Dallas Fort Worth
Nairobi

Reduced frequencies

Chicago ORD second daily
Miami MIA second daily


Let me know if there are others, thank you in advance.
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HB-IWC
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sat May 05, 2007 7:33 pm

AF has over the years closed many destinations, yet some of the more recent reductions include:

Manila, taken over by KLM
Jakarta, taken over by KLM
San Fransisco, 3 additional frequencies no longer operated
Montevideo, closed altogether
Luanda, down from 2 to 1 weekly
Noumea, closed in favor of a code share agreement

Of course, if one takes the once immense UTA network, which AF inherited, into account, the list is much, much longer.

[Edited 2007-05-05 12:42:52]
 
goldorak
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sat May 05, 2007 8:01 pm

another recent reduction of frequency I'm thinking is CAN : when the route was launched, I think the route was serves almost twice daily (1 AF and 1 china southern, both code-shared between the 2 airlines). Now, CAN is served 5 times weekly (3 AF, 2 china southern)

dropped : Tashkent and Koweit city, both served shortly by the Dedicate service
 
incitatus
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sat May 05, 2007 11:01 pm

Manaus, Brazil, served twice a week in the 70s/80s with 747s Paris-Cayenne-Manaus-Lima.
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KL577
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sat May 05, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 2):
dropped : Tashkent and Koweit city, both served shortly by the Dedicate service

Wasn't there dedicated service to an oil center somewhere in Iran? Or was this only planned?

Kharthoum was served by AF in the early nineties.
 
KL577
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sat May 05, 2007 11:13 pm

And maybe Moroni, Comoros and Dzaoudzi, Mayotte were served by AF at some point?
 
FlySSC
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sat May 05, 2007 11:18 pm

Doha was also dropped recently, just 1 season after it was oppened.

KHI, CPT, MPM, AUH and SHJ were dropped in the late 90s.
SEZ was dropped in favour of a codesgare with Air Seychelles.
PAP, UIO and LIM were dropped in the realy 90s, as well as KRT, ADE, KGL, BJM, SAH, HAH, .
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sun May 06, 2007 12:20 am

Wasnt DFW supposed to come back or something?
It is what it is...
 
FlySSC
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sun May 06, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting KL577 (Reply 4):
Wasn't there dedicated service to an oil center somewhere in Iran? Or was this only planned?

Kish Island was planned to be served by A319ER "Dedicate" but traffic rights were not granted by the Iranian authorities.

Quoting KL577 (Reply 5):
And maybe Moroni, Comoros and Dzaoudzi, Mayotte were served by AF at some point?

Moroni (HAH) was.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):
Wasnt DFW supposed to come back or something?

DFW is planned to be re-opened soon.
 
commavia
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sun May 06, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):
Wasnt DFW supposed to come back or something?

Probably not.

When AF left DFW, it was mostly due to the collapse of SN, and AF's desperate need for widebody capacity to backfill the lost SN capacity on African routes. Or, at least, that was the public statement given. At that point, at least initially, there probably was a hope of eventually restarting the flight, perhaps with an A330, in a few years time. But then, of course, 9/11 happened, dramatically reducing the chance of an AF DFW flight succeeding. And then, of course, the real nail in the coffin of any hope of getting AF back: once Delta began reducing the DFW hub to 80% RJs in 2003, and then shut it completely in 2005, it cut off all of the feed that AF would presumably have counted on to fill a prospective CDG-DFW flight in the future. Without the Delta feed, I don't see AF coming back to DFW for at least a decade, if that. The market for DFW-Europe is quite well served with AA 2x LGW, and 1x FRA, CDG and ZRH, BA 1x LGW and LH 1x FRA. As the Metroplex continues to grow and gain prominence on the world stage -- which is and will continue to happen -- there will no doubt be increased demand for flights to Europe. Whether that will lead to a return by AF, or just more AA flights -- only time will tell.
 
777way
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sun May 06, 2007 12:43 am

They also dropped Doha and never got to start Atyrau in Kazakhstan, though they announced plans for it twice.
 
vincewy
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sun May 06, 2007 4:13 pm

Also TPE under Air France Asie in early 90s, they started with 744, later A340, stopped altogether in the end. The ONLY difference in livery was, the 3rd line on the tail was also blue, instead of original red. ONE OF THE UGLIEST AIRLINE LIVERIES I'VE EVER SEEN.
 
md90fan
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sun May 06, 2007 4:34 pm

Port Au Prince was served 1x weekly with the 743 up until 1997,when AF pulled out due to a myriad of events including the deterioating political and economic situation, not to mention Renaud Muselier being kidnapped and the station manager being murdered.

As many of you probably know it is served 3x weekly, on the routing MIA-PAP-FDF-PTP-CAY  bouncy 
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stirling
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sun May 06, 2007 5:13 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
Of course, if one takes the once immense UTA network, which AF inherited, into account, the list is much, much longer.

If you have the time, I would be curious to see just how much of UTA remains in the current AF network...so would a list of discontinued UTA-Only stations be a possibility?
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MAH4546
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sun May 06, 2007 6:18 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
PAP, UIO and LIM were dropped in the realy 90s,

The Paris non-stops are gone, but Air France has served Port Au Prince for over more than 25 years now, non-stop from Miami. Today, it is ran by an A320, routing MIA-PAP-PTP-FDF-CAY (Air France's own French Caribbean island hopper). Air France was flying MIA-PAP for about 8-10 years before they started MIA-CDG.

[Edited 2007-05-06 11:21:23]
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1stfl94
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sun May 06, 2007 8:31 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 13):
If you have the time, I would be curious to see just how much of UTA remains in the current AF network...so would a list of discontinued UTA-Only stations be a possibility?

Well have a 1989 UTA timetable and based on that, the following are no longer served by AF

Sydney
Noumea
Auckland
Kuala Lumpur
Jakarta
Windhoek
Lusaka
Lilongwe
Gaborone
Freetown
Maputo
Nouadhibou
Muscat
Colombo
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sun May 06, 2007 8:56 pm

Kuwait was also dropped.
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FlySSC
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Sun May 06, 2007 9:59 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 13):
If you have the time, I would be curious to see just how much of UTA remains in the current AF network...so would a list of discontinued UTA-Only stations be a possibility?

UTA destinations still operated by AF :

PPT
SIN
NKC
CKY
BKO
ABJ
LFW
COO
LOS
OUA
NIM
NDJ
BGF
DLA
BZV
FIH
LBV
LAD
JNB

UTA destinations dropped by AF :

MCT
BAH
CMB
KUL
CGK
DPS
SYD
MEL
NOU
AKL
MPM (Maputo)
HRE (Harare)
LUN (Lusaka)
GBE (Gaborone)
WDH (Windhoek)
LLW (Lilongwe)
AJY (Agades)
TIP (Tripoli)
FNA (Freetown)
 
cptGirmayTesfa
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Mon May 07, 2007 12:13 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
Doha was also dropped recently, just 1 season after it was oppened.

They served Doha before also, up to somewhere in the 90s.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
PAP, UIO and LIM were dropped in the realy 90s, as well as KRT, ADE, KGL, BJM, SAH, HAH, .

Add ADD, JRO and DAR to that list
 
FlySSC
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Mon May 07, 2007 12:18 am

Quoting CptGirmayTesfa (Reply 18):
Add ADD, JRO and DAR to that list

Correct. I forgot JRO & DAR. But AF nerver served ADD.
 
jfk777
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Mon May 07, 2007 12:57 am

Too bad Air France doesn't fly to Australia, this is an area really lacking for European airlines. With New Caledonia and Tahiti, AF would seem like a natural to fly to Aussie, after allthis is an airline which does fly to Tahiti via LAX; about as long as CDG-Asia-Sydney.
 
777way
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Mon May 07, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 16):
Kuwait was also dropped.

Kuwait continues to be served by Air France Cargo.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 20):
Too bad Air France doesn't fly to Australia, this is an area really lacking for European airlines.

Funny fact for a country that once only promoted immigration to caucasians, not just European airlines but also North American carriers.
 
mindscape
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Mon May 07, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 20):
Too bad Air France doesn't fly to Australia, this is an area really lacking for European airlines. With New Caledonia and Tahiti, AF would seem like a natural to fly to Aussie, after allthis is an airline which does fly to Tahiti via LAX; about as long as CDG-Asia-Sydney.

Well, they do fly there, not with their own metal but with QF codeshare via SIN and via HKG (started May 1st). Passengers will fly on AF metal between CDG-SIN/HKG leg and on QF metal to Australian cities: ex-SIN to ADL/BNE/MEL/PER/SYD, ex-HKG BNE/MEL/SYD. IMHO from passenger's point of view, this does not change too much from a one stop trip except they have to clear their cabin belongings due to the change of apparel. For AF and QF, this turns to be much more profitable.
 
usairways85
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Mon May 07, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
Today, it is ran by an A320, routing MIA-PAP-PTP-FDF-CAY (Air France's own French Caribbean island hopper). Air France was flying MIA-PAP for about 8-10 years before they started MIA-CDG.

I know this has probably been discussed, but i didn't think AF could carry local pax between MIA-PAP. They obviously had to be if MIA-PAP existed longer before CDG-MIA.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Mon May 07, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 23):

I know this has probably been discussed, but i didn't think AF could carry local pax between MIA-PAP. They obviously had to be if MIA-PAP existed longer before CDG-MIA.

Yes, AF has local traffic rights on MIA-PAP. That is the reason they fly MIA-PAP, if not it would be MIA-PTP-FDF-CAY. The flight exists to give the French territories a direct connection to the mainland US. However, traffic between the region and the US is still small, so the Port Au Prince stop allows the flight to easily fill.
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AF086
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Mon May 07, 2007 2:33 am

If I'm not mistaken Recife used to be served by Air France as well.
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trintocan
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RE: Dropped Or Reduced AF Long Haul Destinations

Mon May 07, 2007 3:31 am

AF served POS in the past too. I flew with them once between POS and GEO in 1978 on the Airbus A300 at a time when BW was on strike. AF had a long history of serving POS and stopped sometime in the early to mid 80's. They returned briefly between 2001 and 2004 with regional flights to CAY and FDF.

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