md90fan
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Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Mon May 07, 2007 10:51 pm

A while back everybody was talking about how Fort Lauderdale was the new Delta International Gateway and that we would see many new flights because Delta has so much space to themselves. Two months later we've seen FLL-SDQ, but that's about it.

Can somebody provide me with an update?

Here is the thread I am talking about

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MAH4546
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 12:28 am

Until a few weeks ago, Delta was still planning on doing an international gateway at MIA. With those plans now on the shelf, we might see some more aciton from FLL. I think Delta is still waiting to see how FLL-SDQ does.
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Humberside
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 1:24 am

Can you say why the MIA plans have been shelved
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MAH4546
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
Can you say why the MIA plans have been shelved

I have no idea. Talks ended a few weeks ago. If I were to guess, a combination of high airport operating costs with what would be intense competition with American Airlines. Delta is still building a huge, brand-new CRC, though. Opens in December.

[Edited 2007-05-07 18:29:42]
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USPIT10L
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Delta was still planning on doing an international gateway at MIA. With those plans now on the shelf, we might see some more aciton from FLL

What happened? Did MIA raise their landing fees again? Why would DL want to start a pissing war with AA? I know MIA has the best markets for Latin America, but ATL seems to do very well for the primary destinations. A little more advertising in the secondary markets (SAP, MGA, TGU, etc.) wouldn't hurt the loads there, just improve them.
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MAH4546
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 4):
A little more advertising in the secondary markets (SAP, MGA, TGU, etc.) wouldn't hurt the loads there, just improve them.

The bigger problem in the smaller markets is huge loyalty to AA and CO. It is much easier to pass by this in markets like Lima, Bogota, etc. which are large markets and have significant traffic in both directions. Much harder in the smaller markets, which have a very heavy amount of traffic coming from the destination, and little from the US. I really don't think airport operating costs were a huge part of the equation. On high-priced international flights, they don't matter that much. Though when you combine that with the intense competition from AA and nearby NK, it would give Delta less flexibility in pricing. As I mentioned, the CRC is still opening, and Delta will be moving into some new gates, so I wouldn't rule out Delta doing something at MIA in the future, but not in the near term. For now, they will see how FLL-SDQ performs before moving foward. Santo Domingo is the largest Latin American market from Ft. Lauderdale. If Delta does well, then it will lead to expansion from FLL. If they don't, it could open the door to trying flying from MIA. Delta wants to become a player in South Florida-Latin America.

As a side note, Delta does not fly to TGU.
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Zone1
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Until a few weeks ago, Delta was still planning on doing an international gateway at MIA. With those plans now on the shelf, we might see some more aciton from FLL. I think Delta is still waiting to see how FLL-SDQ does.

I thought that entire thread was a joke???
/// U N I T E D
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting Zone1 (Reply 6):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Until a few weeks ago, Delta was still planning on doing an international gateway at MIA. With those plans now on the shelf, we might see some more aciton from FLL. I think Delta is still waiting to see how FLL-SDQ does.

I thought that entire thread was a joke???

No, it wasn't. Delta and MIA were in serious talks about using the new South Concourse for a focus city.
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deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Delta is still building a huge, brand-new CRC, though. Opens in December.

sorry to ask but what is a CRC?
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MAH4546
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 4:56 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 8):
sorry to ask but what is a CRC?

Crown Room Club.
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rjpieces
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Until a few weeks ago, Delta was still planning on doing an international gateway at MIA

Any idea what services this would have likely consisted of?
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MAH4546
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 5:38 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 10):

Any idea what services this would have likely consisted of?

Medium-range Central/South America and the Caribbean largely using 73Gs and a little domestic expansion. Basiclly what will be going on in FLL in the next year if FLL-SDQ prooves successful.
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belizexp
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Medium-range Central/South America and the Caribbean largely using 73Gs and a little domestic expansion. Basically what will be going on in FLL in the next year if FLL-SDQ proves successful.

I'm not sure what will be left in a year or so with all the expansion at NK
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MAH4546
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 12):

I'm not sure what will be left in a year or so with all the expansion at NK

Left of what? Gate space? Delta Airlines is the only airline at FLL that has an entire terminal to themselves where they can easily double the amount of daily flights they offer. They only sub-lease gates to Midwest, and that's it.
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Alitalia744
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 7:42 am

There are Delta plans in the work for expanded service and additional international routes in the works. Whether those plans include MIA or not is anyone's guess.

Personally, I see another city getting worked out before anything happens in South Florida.
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belizexp
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 7:44 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Left of what?

Latin America/Caribbean Dest. not serve by NK. It just seem like a uphill battle if DL waits any longer then 6 months. I also saw your NK FLL-BOS post if that rumor of NK starting more service is true games over for DL just like US build up.
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delta7004
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 9:23 am

I personally think it will be a new (renewed) trans-Pacific gateway from LAX or a new trans-Atlantic gateway from SLC. I feel SLC would be the most logical choice, as DL is looking for markets with little or no competition, so one currently flying SLC-Europe, DL would have that jewel all to themselves for now.
 
planetime
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting Delta7004 (Reply 16):
I personally think it will be a new (renewed) trans-Pacific gateway from LAX or a new trans-Atlantic gateway from SLC. I feel SLC would be the most logical choice, as DL is looking for markets with little or no competition, so one currently flying SLC-Europe, DL would have that jewel all to themselves for now.

But LAX would be a bigger market. SLC is a good domestic hub... not sure if it can materialize like a international hub. Look at CVG compared to JFK... how they both evolved.... one a majour intl gateway and 1 more domestic hub.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 11:29 am

....but they serve different purposes.

S. Florida is necessary in order to be a dominant player in Latin America - just like being a dominant player to Europe requires that you be in both LHR and in NYC....

LAX will probably get the nod for int'l focus since the transatlantic, Africa, and Latin plans from JFK and ATL are pretty well falling into place - and doing quite well. SLC and S. Florida may get a route or two but neither require the amount of investment that LAX requires.

DL will expand LAX because it is a market where there is no dominant US airline, DL has the resources to deploy (in the air and on the ground), and because LAX is strategically necessary for DL.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 11:38 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 18):
SLC and S. Florida may get a route or two but neither require the amount of investment that LAX requires.

South Florida will get more than "a route or two", but it is not priority right now, and I think anything from South Florida is at least a year off, probably more like two years off. As you said, LAX will be the focus right now.
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delta7004
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 11:44 am

SLC would actually be better for DL because it has the DCI feeder base that LAX doesn't have, and I think there are many people who would rather fly internationally from convenient SLC than very busy and very crowded LAX. SLC already has the DL base and major hub status, and I think SLC would have more potential than CVG even as an international hub, just my personal opinion from what I see while working at SLC airport and listening to the opinions and thoughts of fellow DL employees and customers. LAX however, would make an excellent major Pacific hub, but I cannot see DL really being interested in LAX-Europe right now while they have SLC already set up with markets, Delta Connection feeds, etc.
 
avconsultant
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 2:55 pm

I thought it's been discussed to death........ LAX and BOS.

I never understood why DL gave up on LAX years back. I'm sure some one has the history on this.
 
delta7004
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 8:36 pm

I could also see BOS as a DL int'l gateway, I've heard that is where the "new" 757s coming from AA are to be based eventually.
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 8:50 pm

Quoting Delta7004 (Reply 22):
I've heard that is where the "new" 757s coming from AA are to be based eventually.

Whitehurst has already mentioned that those 75s will be based out of JFK.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=8772

"....The 757s will be based at JFK for new service to secondary cities throughout Europe. "Each new Western European destination should become profitable after three or four months," he added...."
 
2travel2know
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Tue May 08, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Left of what? Gate space? Delta Airlines is the only airline at FLL that has an entire terminal to themselves where they can easily double the amount of daily flights they offer. They only sub-lease gates to Midwest, and that's it.

That's great for DL, but if DL is looking to make FLL an international gateway, Are they going to use the jetways on their terminal for international arrivals and bus the passengers to the F.I.S. like some airlines do on other U.S. airports? Does "DL's FLL terminal" has room for its own F.I.S.?
Another question about FLL, is FLL really slot restricted?
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higherflyer
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Wed May 09, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting Delta7004 (Reply 22):
I could also see BOS as a DL int'l gateway, I've heard that is where the "new" 757s coming from AA are to be based eventually.



Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 21):
I thought it's been discussed to death........ LAX and BOS.

BOS won't work as currently configured. When Leo spent the fortune on the new terminal, he forgot to add customs and immigration facilities. Don't think you will see too much international expansion from BOS anytime soon.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Wed May 09, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting Higherflyer (Reply 25):
When Leo spent the fortune on the new terminal, he forgot to add customs and immigration facilities

Um, that has more to do with Massport throwing a tantrum and wanting DL to operate all their int'l flights from their precious International Terminal D (formerly E), nothing with Mullin not planning for it. Same for AA and US, who both wanted to add FIS to their terminals and were shot down Massport as well.
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Wed May 09, 2007 4:34 am

Quoting Zone1 (Reply 6):
I thought that entire thread was a joke???

A friend of mine who works for DL said that MIA was never a real consideration for an international hub to Latin America. The feeling was the O & D wasn't sufficient (given the well establishment of AA and current Latin carriers) and would detract from the overfly from ATL. LAX is the airport they are supposed to be looking at, despite the fact they de-hubbed it once already. They are supposedly looking at Japan, China and Australia as soon as they get a/c and rights.
 
phllax
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Wed May 09, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 24):
Another question about FLL, is FLL really slot restricted?

No slot restrictions at FLL.

The only US airports with slot restrictions are: DCA, LGA, SNA, LGB, JFK (peak afternoon only). ORD also has some capcity controls currently.
 
higherflyer
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Wed May 09, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 26):
Um, that has more to do with Massport throwing a tantrum and wanting DL to operate all their int'l flights from their precious International Terminal D

You won't see any major international expansion in BOS until there are FIS facilities in Delta's terminal. There is no interest in having an aircraft clear customs at Term D and then have to be repositioned to the other side of the airport in addition to having the passengers connect across terminals. Massport may have tried to put their foot/feet down on the issue, but Delta could/should have fought them and would have won. Leo and his team were not doing their jobs! Not good planning!
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Wed May 09, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting Phllax (Reply 28):
Another question about FLL, is FLL really slot restricted?

I think FLL's problem is one of capacity, not slots. They use only one runway for mainline ops if I'm not mistaken, and the NIMBY's seem hellbent to make sure the southern parallel isn't upgraded.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Wed May 09, 2007 5:50 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 27):

A friend of mine who works for DL said that MIA was never a real consideration for an international hub to Latin America.

It was serious enough that DL and MIA had serious talks, and AA's MIA employees found out about them.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Wed May 09, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting Delta7004 (Reply 16):
I feel SLC would be the most logical choice, as DL is looking for markets with little or no competition,

...but you forgot "would actually make enough money to warrant service relative to more lucrative opportunities from other hubs". Which is why SLC doesn't currently have nonstop intercon service, and most likely won't any time soon sans heavy subsidy.
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jfk777
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Wed May 09, 2007 8:25 am

FLL isn't big enough for an FIS station at two terminals, they have one that is crappy but does what it needs to do. DL would arrive at FIS terminal and leave from its own.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Wed May 09, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 33):
FLL isn't big enough for an FIS station at two terminals

What study are you citing to conclude thus?
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2travel2know
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RE: Delta Int'l Gateway Annoucement? When?

Wed May 09, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 33):
FLL isn't big enough for an FIS station at two terminals, they have one that is crappy but does what it needs to do. DL would arrive at FIS terminal and leave from its own.

Maybe FLL should learn from IAH, where a FIS is located in-between 2 terminals and handles the international arrivals while gates on connecting terminals can be used for domestic arrivals and departures too if needed (specially on IAH terminal D).
Talking about going thru a FIS not in the airlines own terminal, for example at LAX, CM arrives international at CO's terminal which doesn't have a FIS, passengers disembark and immediately board a bus to the Bradley FIS where they go thru immigration and customs. Could something like that be done for DL at FLL or at BOS? I'm sure the major problem there would be the connecting passengers, they would have to walk from the FIS to DL's terminal.
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