semsem
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Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Wed May 09, 2007 1:13 am

The Israeli Government has agreed to subsidise the heavy losses by El Al on its routes to Cairo as well as Arkia losses on its route to Amman. Link to Haaretz article below.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/857149.html
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Wed May 09, 2007 1:51 am

Great News, Hopefully Israel will help EL AL turn profitable in the near future instead of giving them problems.

I do not believe a country would like for there main airline to go under because of all Security, Political & Religous problems it must face in there day to day business.

If I was Israel I would not of went to Aitalia to transfer government workers & I would try to promote EL AL with all the Tourism for free. They are spending money anyway so what is the big deal.
 
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RJAF
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Wed May 09, 2007 4:41 am

Any idea how RJ is doing on the Amman-Tel Aviv flights?
Chance favors the prepared mind
 
semsem
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Wed May 09, 2007 10:16 am

RJ I believe fly daily and they benefit from connecting traffic to Asia.
 
Evan767
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Wed May 09, 2007 10:22 am

Good news for me as I plan on taking TLV-CAI in the summer, despite it's absurd departure time.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Wed May 09, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting RJAF (Reply 2):
Any idea how RJ is doing on the Amman-Tel Aviv flights?

I've heard they do rather well because of all the connecting opportunities in Amman...
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Wed May 09, 2007 10:57 am

RJ does very well and they are very Very VERY competitive on the CARGO side.
You could also catch a310s flying to Tel Aviv on some days.

Some of the Cargo picked up by RJ in Tel Aviv is transferred to Arab countries as EL AL can not fly there.
RJ charges pretty big money but, less than the Europeans for these Cargos. Electronics, Pharmacitcals, Metals & Other expensive stuff
 
semsem
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Wed May 09, 2007 3:41 pm

Air Sinai also flys Cairo to TLV.
 
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RJAF
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Thu May 10, 2007 2:44 am

Semsem,

Not wanting to politicize this post but if there was true peace between Israel and the Arab world, watch TLV become a major hub, abuzz with Arab carriers.

Peace, Salam, Shalom
Chance favors the prepared mind
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Thu May 10, 2007 3:31 am

Quoting RJAF (Reply 8):
Not wanting to politicize this post but if there was true peace between Israel and the Arab world, watch TLV become a major hub, abuzz with Arab carriers.

No reason in the world why there isn't TLV-BEY and TLV-DXB service. All the peoples of the Middle East would benefit.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Evan767
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Thu May 10, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
No reason in the world why there isn't TLV-BEY and TLV-DXB service. All the peoples of the Middle East would benefit.

Are Israelis even allowed into Lebanon and the UAE?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
IAD380
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Thu May 10, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting RJAF (Reply 8):
if there was true peace between Israel and the Arab world, watch TLV become a major hub, abuzz with Arab carriers.
Peace, Salam, Shalom

I truly hope and pray for peace and reconciliation between Israel and the entire Arab world, especially the Palestinians. Peace would be a blessing for all, and it cannot come to the Mideast soon enough. Nevertheless, I don't think a formal peace treaty will attract Arab airlines to TLV, or result in many scheduled flights between Israel and Arab countries.
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Thu May 10, 2007 4:14 am

I do see Emirates and EL AL flying

TLV-DXB
DXB-TLV

That is the only route I do see, Israelis would be there flying back and forth non-stop.

Before 1979 Israelis were all over the place in IRAN without any problems. There were even Israeli contracters working on all different types of problems.

It would be very very benefical for the Emirates to sign a peace agreement with Israel as both sides would profit substationally.

Listen, Israelis travel to Cairo & Amman,

But, I know the Israelis would love to conduct business in DUBAI in the open.

Right now, there are a very large amount of Israelis in DUBAI, But they travel on different passports. 75% of Israel has dual-citizenship. I know religious jews conducted business is DUBAI.

DUBAI just built the largest DIAMOND Exchange in the world. The Director or President or whatever is a Religious JEW from Antwerp, Belgium. Lets face it the DIAMOND business is dominated by ISRAEL
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Thu May 10, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 10):
Are Israelis even allowed into Lebanon and the UAE?

No, but like I said, no reason in the world why that can't change.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Thu May 10, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 12):
It would be very very benefical for the Emirates to sign a peace agreement with Israel as both sides would profit substationally.

Ummm... I hope EK isn't given the authorty to determine maters of peace and war! There next order would be for bombers!  duck 

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):

No, but like I said, no reason in the world why that can't change.

Except for politics. The reality is that both sides woudl do well if there was peace.

But I'm not sure that is a politically possible reality judging by how many nations blame all of their problems on Israel (not saying its true, I'm just stating the political climate). How many arab countries even recognize Israel's right to exist? Not many...

But if it were to open up, both El Al and EK would see a tremendous boost in business. It would be bizarro to see each other's aircraft in TLV or DXB...  confused 

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
rjpieces
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Thu May 10, 2007 9:54 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
But if it were to open up, both El Al and EK would see a tremendous boost in business. It would be bizarro to see each other's aircraft in TLV or DXB...

I'd love to see some courageous Arabs like Anwar Sadat. If the CEO of Emirates announced his intention to start DXB-TLV, he would be perceived as a hero in most of the world (except ironically in the Arab world).
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
levg79
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Thu May 10, 2007 10:29 am

Does anyone know what the loads are on TLV-CAI and TLV-AMM flights? Also do only LY and IZ fly on these routes or MS and RJ fly to TLV as well?

Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Thu May 10, 2007 10:48 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 15):
If the CEO of Emirates announced his intention to start DXB-TLV, he would be perceived as a hero in most of the world (except ironically in the Arab world).

Sad but true. Here is hoping they can take that step forward!  bigthumbsup 

Name two countries in the global supply chain that have gone to war with each other...

Yea, I cannot think of any either.

Amazing how business can trump a lot of other motivations...

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
USADreamliner
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Fri May 11, 2007 1:02 am

So, why Arkia and El Al keep flying to those destinations? It's not like they depend on Cairo and Amman, that's for sure.


and why not flight to Doha?
 
777way
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Fri May 11, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 19):
and why not flight to Doha?

No links with most Muslim countries or allowed to overfly their airspace.

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 19):
So, why Arkia and El Al keep flying to those destinations? It's not like they depend on Cairo and Amman, that's for sure.

Political and not Business decision.

[Edited 2007-05-10 18:40:30]
 
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yyz717
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Fri May 11, 2007 1:35 am

While I'm generally against any route subsidies anywhere, these are 2 that I support.

The (too) few commercial links between Israel and the Arab world need to be fostered. The links they provide encourage trade (commercial & cultural) and understanding far more valuable than the underlying subsidy.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
IAD380
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Fri May 11, 2007 3:37 am

Do RJ and 4D receive subsidies for their flights to TLV? I don't know the answer, but I doubt that they do. The AMM-TLV route seems to be very profitable for RJ, but not for Israeli carriers. Remember that TK prospers on the route to TLV, but LY withdrew from IST. For whatever reason, this seems to be a similar situation.
 
flyprivate
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Fri May 11, 2007 4:53 am

Flew Amman - TLV -last month on Arkia
( Drove TLV-Amman Portion )

flight consisted of israeli's en route to Asia/Israeli businessmen doing work in Jordan and filipino foreign workers

much more convinent to cross border by car-- BIG BIG Hassle for a 20 minute flight...

and yes theres alot of security ( your not gonna get details out of me ! )
 
semsem
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Fri May 11, 2007 7:41 am

RJAF because close to 50% of Israelis left Arab countries after 1948 if there were a real peace and stability there would be demand for the following new routes:

Casablanca
Algiers
Tunis
Djerba
Tripoli
Baghdad
Irbil
Sana

Many Israeli tourists would go to Dubai, Bahrein and Muscat. Damascus and Beirut are close so one can go by car.

But I think this is a long way off.

Allah Wayak.
 
LXA340
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Sat May 12, 2007 6:33 pm

Quoting Flyprivate (Reply 23):
Drove TLV-Amman Portion

How long did the drive take you including security check points etc?
 
flybaby
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Mon May 14, 2007 9:41 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 21):
The AMM-TLV route seems to be very profitable for RJ, but not for Israeli carriers.

It's becuase of the connecting traffic to Asia and Oceania, carried by RJ. The basic reason why RJ is more competitive here is because they can overfly countries like Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran to reach say Thiland, India and Hong Kong. LY has to fly around these countries, significatnly lengthening flight times from TLV and eating up extra fuel.

LY's wettest dream are obtaining overflight rights over Saudi Arabia.

Given its location, TLV can become an important connecting hub is peace ever becomes reality. There's enough domestic demand to act as solid baseline demand to which connecting traffic could greatly add to.

[Edited 2007-05-14 02:45:06]
 
nycflyer
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RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Mon May 14, 2007 1:09 pm

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 16):
Does anyone know what the loads are on TLV-CAI and TLV-AMM flights? Also do only LY and IZ fly on these routes or MS and RJ fly to TLV as well?

I flew CAI-TLV on LY two years ago, and the flight was half full, possibly even less than half full. At the time there were only two flights a week. Most of the pax looked European (i.e. non-Arab, non-Israeli)
 
777way
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Israel Will Subsidise Routes To Egypt / Jordan

Mon May 14, 2007 11:29 pm

I heard on CNN back in the 90's after Jordan has recahed peace with Israel, that general population in Jordan and Egypt are not happy with their govt. decision to establish ties with Israel, so public interest thing is a facade, the report also said hardly any people from those countries are keen to visit Israel and its mostly Israelis who travel to those places, maybe out of curiosity.

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 26):
I flew CAI-TLV on LY two years ago, and the flight was half full, possibly even less than half full. At the time there were only two flights a week. Most of the pax looked European (i.e. non-Arab, non-Israeli)

With Olmerts latest views on East Jerusalem you can forget that happening.

Quoting FlyBaby (Reply 25):
peace ever becomes reality.

Do RJ Cargo A310F also operate to TLV?

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