SA744
Topic Author
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:13 pm

New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Wed May 09, 2007 10:29 pm

Good day all

Rumours going around the aviation circle is that the following airlines are seriously considering JNB as a destination:

Korean airlines (to start nov 07)
American airlines
Jet airways
Aer lingus
Air canada (but it is BIG maybe only if bilaterals agrrements are changed)

British airways to go 3 times daily
Virgin to go double daily
Emirates to go 3 times daily
Etihad to go daily with A330-200's

Please confirm if you have any more details thanking you

SA744

Do you think we will see the following at JNB

Asiana airlines
ANA
Eva air
Phillipine
and anything else
 
behramjee
Posts: 4323
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Wed May 09, 2007 10:31 pm

Out of your above mentioned list only Jet Airways, Emirates and Etihad have confirmed their JNB plans rest are all speculation at this point.
 
VHVXB
Posts: 5309
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Wed May 09, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):

Also to note QF will add 6 additional flights to JNB during the southern summer on the following dates
- 8, 15 and 22 December 2007
- 5, 12 and 19 January 2008
Routing will be SYD-PER-JNB-PER-SYD which will be operated by the B743
 
lxlgu
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 7:12 pm

New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Wed May 09, 2007 10:39 pm

Hi SAA 744

Emirates go triple daily from 1 July

EK 765 DXB JNB 1440/2050

EK 766 JNB DXB 2230/0830

Etihad go daily from 1 August but will downgrade from 777 to 332

Turkish to start 16 September-flight plan not yet out

Cheers!
Tony
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Wed May 09, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
British airways to go 3 times daily
Virgin to go double daily

No chance - the bilateral doesn't allow it as far as I'm aware. They would like more flights but the bilaterals won't change until the SA government realise that slot allocation at LHR has nothing do to with the UK government and it cannot tie down extra slots at the times that SAA wants at LHR as part of any bilateral agreement.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
lxlgu
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 7:12 pm

New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Wed May 09, 2007 10:58 pm

Effective 9 JUL JNB SAO goes twice daily on MON/THU/SAT

Extra flight is SA224 JNBGRU 1420/1950

SA225 GRUJNB 2230/1200

Cheers!
Tony
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Wed May 09, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
Air canada (but it is BIG maybe only if bilaterals agrrements are changed)

Is this a new rumour, or the same old rumour that's been circulating since the mid 80's??

The ongoing rumours have included:

YYZ/ZRH/JNB (Just because)
YYZ/FRA/JNB (Allegdly nixed by LH because of Star Alliance overlap/conflicts)
YYZ/MAD/JNB(Saving the on again/off again YYZ-MAD route)
YYZ/LIS/JNB (Inclusion of TAP with Star Alliance)
YYZ/MIA/JNB (Revised Canada/US Bilaterals foolowing in the footsteps of YYZ/LAX/SYD)
YYZ/JNB (With the once assumed increase of A345's)
YYZ/JNB (Resurrected with the 77L announcement)
Above and Beyond
 
abc9
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 1:20 am

New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Wed May 09, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
Aer lingus

There's ben some talk of CPT alright but little mention of JNB. If it's to happen at all it won't be soon - EI are about to receive 2 new 330s but they are already committed to 3 new US destinations. A long haul order is expected in the coming weeks (although we've been saying that for 6 months now) and there may be an announcement of new routes but they aren't going to start for at least 12 months I'd wager. There is significant Irish investment in Capetown property which would possibly make that route viable and if you're going that far, why not add a stop in JNB where there would be a chance of some business traffic (if that doesn't sound too flippant).
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Thu May 10, 2007 12:15 am

You left out TK, TK is planning to restart service from IST with the A330-200, per another thread on here. Here is a link confirming that TK will be back in Sept, continuing on to CPT.

http://www.thy.com/en-INT/corporate/skylife/article.aspx?mkl=402

I can't imagine either EI or AC flying to JNB. While a 77L might be able to make it to JNB from YYZ, who is going to be filling it? It seems to me that AC has much more profitable places to put their aircraft... and of course you'd need to revise the bilateral treaty. If AC were go 5th Freedom through MIA, that might make sense, but again, the treaty, so at this point, it sounds like pie in the sky to me.

As for EI, they are strapped for long-haul aircraft and are planning to use every one they can get their hands on for their ambitious North American expansion plans. I don't think JNB is on their radar at the moment.

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 6):

YYZ/ZRH/JNB (Just because)
YYZ/FRA/JNB (Allegdly nixed by LH because of Star Alliance overlap/conflicts)
YYZ/MAD/JNB(Saving the on again/off again YYZ-MAD route)
YYZ/LIS/JNB (Inclusion of TAP with Star Alliance)
YYZ/MIA/JNB (Revised Canada/US Bilaterals foolowing in the footsteps of YYZ/LAX/SYD)
YYZ/JNB (With the once assumed increase of A345's)
YYZ/JNB (Resurrected with the 77L announcement)

I can't imagine why AC would put their aircraft on this route over others... plus, treaties...
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
mainMAN
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:55 am

New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Thu May 10, 2007 3:10 pm

Flyglobespan will operate twice weekly MAN-JNB from 01/10/07 to 30/03/08, Thursday and Sunday with a 763.

It's great to see northern England linked to JNB again for the first time since SA's brief appearance at MAN in the early 90s. However, the fact that it's GSM hasn't aroused a lot of excitement.
 
vincewy
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:32 am

New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Thu May 10, 2007 4:18 pm

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
Eva air

Not a chance, CI tried JNB years ago and it was losing money badly, part of the problem was, SA was already flying this sector, twice weekly until South Africa broke ties with Taiwan (which was enough to cover this market). The biggest killer was CI couldn't get traffic right between SIN-JNB, had CI been allowed to fly between SIN and JNB, the route might have been saved.

Once KE provides daily service to JNB, this will pretty much cover all of Far East, ICN will take care of Japanses/Northern Chinese cities, along with SQ/TG/MH for SE Asia, CX/SA in between. The rest of Asian carriers will not be able to sustain this market.
 
777way
Posts: 6470
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RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Fri May 11, 2007 1:39 am

I would imagine JAL flying there someday.
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Fri May 11, 2007 2:22 am

There has been great speculation on AA MIA-South Africa recently:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/251714/

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3287862

Basically, it comes down to this: AA could print money on a MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA route, but (a) their 777's are not 180 minutes ETOP certified (necessary for CPT-MIA), (b) they don't have enough 777's as it is, and (c) they will probably wait until the 787 is available before trying this route.

However, of all major U.S. airlines, AA is the most likely to fly to South Africa - UA will continue the codeshare with S.A., DL is happy with ATL-DKR-JNB, and US, NW, and CO don't have the equipment, logistics, or O&D numbers to expand to Africa right now.

Okay, MAYBE Continental EWR-JNB, but I'd think they'd rather fly to LOS or LAD from either EWR or IAH for the oil business first.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
SA744
Topic Author
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Fri May 11, 2007 6:16 pm

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 10):
Once KE provides daily service to JNB, this will pretty much cover all of Far East, ICN will take care of Japanses/Northern Chinese cities, along with SQ/TG/MH for SE Asia, CX/SA in between. The rest of Asian carriers will not be able to sustain this market.

Do you have any idea what there initial frequencies are going to be at start up.
 
ka
Posts: 573
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 11:49 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Fri May 11, 2007 6:54 pm

Just a little increase, but nevertheless:
LX goes daily ZRH-JNB (up from 6/7) from mid-July (A343).

Greetings,
KA.
Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
 
cyba
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:33 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Fri May 11, 2007 8:39 pm

Quoting Lxlgu (Reply 3):
Emirates go triple daily from 1 July

According to the Emirates website the new flights are 4x a week on 12-4--7 and are still subject to govt approval

Quoting Ka (Reply 14):
Just a little increase, but nevertheless:
LX goes daily ZRH-JNB (up from 6/7) from mid-July (A343).

But didn't SA just pull out of the market recently? Or am I mixing things up?
 
lxlgu
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 7:12 pm

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Fri May 11, 2007 11:03 pm

Hi Cyba!

Emirates are triple daily from 1 July-we can sell the new flight and they have introduced special fares on the route
for connecting passengers to Europe

SAA have discontinued their 3x weekly service to Zurich and will start Munich 3x weekly on July 3

Another new route is JNB KILAMANJARO for SAA nonstop once a week from July

Cheers!
Tony
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1446
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 12:50 am

Another one to the list is a high from NZ - AKL to JNB via xxx possable add on to the Perth flight. rumer has its the 2008 route of choice for the airline. would either be 744 or T7 operations.

BD are also looking at the chance of jumping in if SAA pull out of the LHR market,
Vietnam time..
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 12):
but (a) their 777's are not 180 minutes ETOP certified (necessary for CPT-MIA)

huh? how do you fly the Pacific w/o 180 minute ETOPS on an airplane that was delivered w/ 180 ETOPS?
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 1:37 am

Quote:
huh? how do you fly the Pacific w/o 180 minute ETOPS on an airplane that was delivered w/ 180 ETOPS?

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3287862

Quote:
AA's 777 have a greater range than non-ER 747-400s. The only problem, as you said, is with ETOPS restrictions. There is a huge spot in the South Atlantic that is restricted for aircraft flying with ETOPS 138. Until American's 777s (unless they have already) are allowed to fly through that big spot, Miami-Cape Town is out the 777's normal (unrestricted) range.

From the previous thread on AA to South Africa (reply #24), this is what I am basing my comment on.

IF American's 777's are 180 ETOPS certified, then CPT-MIA is not a problem. If American's 777's are only 138 minutes certified, this would force a deviation in the flight plane out of a straight line to avoid an area between Namibia and South America where the direct route cuts through.

In looking at the Great Circle Mapper, California-Hawai'i does have a very small portion of the flight that is outside of the 138 ETOPS limitations, so it must be assumed that AA does have aircraft that are 180 ETOPS certified. But AA does not fly any 777's to Hawai'i, and the three longest distance routes - DFW/ORD - NRT, DFW/ORD - Europe, and ORD-DEL all fly far away from 180 ETOPS restrictions.

My point is this: AA 777 flying MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA is feasible; however, (a) range and payload restrictions must be carefully calculated with AA's current 777 fleet (it is over 6600 miles each way!), (b) ETOPS certification must be carefully calculated for maximum range (does anyone know what the ETOPS is for AA's 777's?), and (c) will the 787 be able to do this route more economically?
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
COEI2007
Posts: 837
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:33 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 4:37 am

EI was apparently looking at PHL, YYZ and CPT for next year, so maybe a DUB-JNB-CPT, or DUB-CPT-JNB could be operated?
 
KLM685
Posts: 1506
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 12:41 pm

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting SA744 (Thread starter):
Rumours going around the aviation circle is that the following airlines are seriously considering JNB as a destination:

Aeromexico...But only for the world cup  Wink
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
XA744
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:40 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting Lxlgu (Reply 5):
Effective 9 JUL JNB SAO goes twice daily on MON/THU/SAT

Extra flight is SA224 JNBGRU 1420/1950

SA225 GRUJNB 2230/1200

Interesting to see South African grabbing all the traffic between the two countries for themselves.

Isn´t Brazilian Ocean Air prepared to launch South Africa destinations from GRU any time now ?

How would the new GOL/Varig react to this SA movement ?

Best regards
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 19):
Quote:
huh? how do you fly the Pacific w/o 180 minute ETOPS on an airplane that was delivered w/ 180 ETOPS?

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3287862

Quote:
AA's 777 have a greater range than non-ER 747-400s. The only problem, as you said, is with ETOPS restrictions. There is a huge spot in the South Atlantic that is restricted for aircraft flying with ETOPS 138. Until American's 777s (unless they have already) are allowed to fly through that big spot, Miami-Cape Town is out the 777's normal (unrestricted) range.

From the previous thread on AA to South Africa (reply #24), this is what I am basing my comment on.

and I don't think the info is correct but it's possible it is. I cannot for the life of me know why AA would choose not to certify the queen of its fleet to fly ETOPS 180 since the plane was designed and delivered to do just that.

If true, the irony is that AA maintains DL's RR Trents to 180 minute ETOPS standards while maintaining its aircraft to a lesser standard (of which engines are a part).

I still want to hear from someone at AA who knows whether this is true or not... I'm highly skeptical although GCI does show it is possible to fly to NRT from most of the US w/ ETOPS 138 as well as on most if not all of AA's other 777 routes .
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 5:18 pm

Quoting Zkojh (Reply 17):
Another one to the list is a high from NZ - AKL to JNB via xxx possable add on to the Perth flight. rumer has its the 2008 route of choice for the airline. would either be 744 or T7 operations.

Is that still on is it, I thought it was another route for NZ in 2008. Not sure if a 772 can fly from PER-JNB or not.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2422
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 6:01 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 12):
Basically, it comes down to this: AA could print money on a MIA-JNB-CPT-MIA route, but (a) their 777's are not 180 minutes ETOP certified (necessary for CPT-MIA), (b) they don't have enough 777's as it is, and (c) they will probably wait until the 787 is available before trying this route.

I think the pilot issue needs to be resolved too. If the pilots refused to fly DFW-PEK, I can guarantee you they aren't going to be jumping up and down about Miami-South Africa.
 
PAHS200
Posts: 494
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:06 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 6:37 pm

is this because of the World Cup? I know its 3 years away.

michael
 
SA744
Topic Author
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting Zkojh (Reply 17):
Another one to the list is a high from NZ - AKL to JNB via xxx possable add on to the Perth flight. rumer has its the 2008 route of choice for the airline. would either be 744 or T7 operations.

This route has been a topic of many discussions so will believe it when i see NZ touch SA Runway. They were also thinking of flying it via Melbourne.
 
omoo
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:35 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 12):
CO don't have the equipment, logistics, or O&D numbers to expand to Africa right now.

Okay, MAYBE Continental EWR-JNB, but I'd think they'd rather fly to LOS or LAD from either EWR or IAH for the oil business first.

What about CO flying from IAH to JNB using a 777 ? is that feasible ?
Fly Air Popobawa
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sat May 12, 2007 10:59 pm

EgyptAir will increase CAI-JNB-CAI flights from 5x weekly to daily from W07/08. SA codeshare on the service.

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sun May 13, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting Omoo (Reply 28):
What about CO flying from IAH to JNB using a 777 ? is that feasible ?

not nonstop on an ER.
 
SA744
Topic Author
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sun May 27, 2007 3:09 am

Hello All

News thru the aviation circles Jet airways are wanting to start the JNB route in november. Aircraft and route frequencies as of yet unknown.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: New Airlines To JNB And Increased Frequencies

Sun May 27, 2007 4:33 am

SAA and MIA officials have met lately, even though I don't think there will be something soon given SAA's situation:

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/070524/story5.shtml
a.

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