Oykie
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

Time For An 767-200LRF Update?

Thu May 10, 2007 6:02 am

With the Advanced Tanker being based on a derivative of the future 767-200LRF we know that somewhere in the near future this airplane will be offered to customers. Hopefully the high air cargo demand and the lack of competition in the 60 Ton segment will see an continued increases interest in the 767-200LRF program. IMO I believe Boeing could easily sell 100-200 767 Freighters within a period of five years. there are not any competition yet, and I wonder how many A330F Airbus can produce. It seems like they are producing what they can right now.

As for my questions in this thread, I was wondering if someone could enlighten us all about what to expect for the LRF program.

1: Initially there was talk about both a 767-200LRF and a -300LRF would be offered. Will both planes be offered for sale?

2: does anybody have any idea when Boeing will start offering the 767-LRF to costumers?

3: When can we expect the 767-LRF to entry into service?

4: What is the MTOW and range of the 767-LRF?

If some of you have any information on this subject it will be much appreciated. I believe that the future on this program depends much on the tanker program, but still someone should have thought about when to offer this plane, and when it should enter service.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
Flighty
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RE: Time For An 767-200LRF Update?

Thu May 10, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting OyKIE (Thread starter):
I believe that the future on this program depends much on the tanker program,

Bingo. You answered your own question. The LRF will be offered if, and when, the multi billion dollar tanker deal is signed. Not a moment before.
 
eraugrad02
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RE: Time For An 767-200LRF Update?

Thu May 10, 2007 11:50 am

So I wonder if the new 767 order that UPS/DHL ordered will be -LRF? I'm beginning to think since there isnt gonna be a new version GE CF6 engine that the -LRF would get standard winglets and an additional fuel tank. Only way i can think of to add range on an older aircraft. Any comments???
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2637
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RE: Time For An 767-200LRF Update?

Thu May 10, 2007 12:18 pm

Quoting Eraugrad02 (Reply 2):
So I wonder if the new 767 order that UPS/DHL ordered will be -LRF? I'm beginning to think since there isnt gonna be a new version GE CF6 engine that the -LRF would get standard winglets and an additional fuel tank. Only way i can think of to add range on an older aircraft. Any comments???

I doubt that there would be an extra fuel tank, but latest and greatest engines + wing tip extenensions will add alot of efficency thus creating more range for the same fuel.
 
keesje
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RE: Time For An 767-200LRF Update?

Fri May 11, 2007 3:06 am

I think there will be a lot of 767 converted freighters when large numebrs of 767 are being replaced.

I wonder how many operators will be willing to pay for the additional range.

If the 767 LRF will be launched without a government funded tanker development / line continuation remains a question.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Oykie
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Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

RE: Time For An 767-200LRF Update?

Fri May 11, 2007 7:20 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 1):
The LRF will be offered if, and when, the multi billion dollar tanker deal is signed. Not a moment before.

That is true. My question was regarding when it is expected to offer the LRF. It would be wise of Boeing to start showing potential costumers now what they have in mind and when, so the potential customers don't end up buying Airbus A330F. That would have been a huge blow to Boeing if they can offer something competitive say from 2010.

Quoting Eraugrad02 (Reply 2):
So I wonder if the new 767 order that UPS/DHL ordered will be -LRF? I'm beginning to think since there isn't gonna be a new version GE CF6 engine that the -LRF would get standard winglets and an additional fuel tank. Only way i can think of to add range on an older aircraft. Any comments???

I think they ordered the regular 767F, but it would be cool if they ordered the LRF in the not so distant future. By the way. Has any engine been selected by UPS/DHL? The tanker program will have the Pratt's installed.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 3):
I doubt that there would be an extra fuel tank, but latest and greatest engines + wing tip extensions will add alot of efficiency thus creating more range for the same fuel.

This is also something I am wondering about with the new LRF. Will the increase in range just come from uprated engines + winglets or raked wingtips? IIRC the range will match that of the 772F. That will be an 1000 NM increase in range.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 4):
I think there will be a lot of 767 converted freighters when large Numbers of 767 are being replaced.

I wonder how many operators will be willing to pay for the additional range.

If the 767 LRF will be launched without a government funded tanker development / line continuation remains a question.

I agree with you that the LRF future depends on the tanker development. But still the range increase makes this a quite unique cargo plane.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
eraugrad02
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RE: Time For An 767-200LRF Update?

Sat May 12, 2007 1:09 am

I'm sure the older 767s that will become freighter can be updated to near -LRF stats. Add the winglets to get more payload and range. Every little bit helps. I thing all these upgrades has made the value of 767s go up a bit.
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
JayinKitsap
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

RE: Time For An 767-200LRF Update?

Sat May 12, 2007 1:46 am

If the tanker program doesn't go, Boeing would need to evaluate the 767 program. Would it be happy to keep producing at 1 per month until all orders dry up. I would suspect that Boeing would "shake the tree" to see how many remaining orders would drop out, then quietly make the announcement that the 767 production will stop.

If the tanker program goes, it would be good to offier the ERF model for commercial, it would be good to continue to get commercial orders to fill in the schedule for the tankers. As so often happens on military programs, often for budget reasons the build rate is lower than desired.

With proper pricing, a new build 767 freighter might be a good option in the market as the equipment would be new and no conversion costs. Also things like window blanking and other weight could be saved.
 
Oykie
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Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

RE: Time For An 767-200LRF Update?

Sat May 12, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting Eraugrad02 (Reply 6):
I'm sure the older 767s that will become freighter can be updated to near -LRF stats. Add the winglets to get more payload and range. Every little bit helps.

sure, but how will they increase the range to match the almost 5000 NM range of the LRF.

Quoting Eraugrad02 (Reply 6):
I thing all these upgrades has made the value of 767s go up a bit.

I am also sure of that.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas