MAH4546
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Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 6:31 am

Air Finland has applied with DOT to fly to the United States:

http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=467761&docketid=28129

My best guess would be scheduled winter charters to Miami or Ft. Lauderdale, but the application doesn't say anything.
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san747
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 6:40 am

Their fleet is 757-200s only, correct? Would they have to make a stop somewhere from Finland to the US?
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chrisnh
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 6:42 am

Finnair used Bangor a fair bit, and they even allowed people to board and disembark there. My bet would be on BGR.

Chris in NH
 
MAH4546
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 2):
Finnair used Bangor a fair bit, and they even allowed people to board and disembark there. My bet would be on BGR.

Though with new immigration rules that would require passengers to get off in Bangor, it is unlikely, IMO.

My guess is Halifax.
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richierich
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Though with new immigration rules that would require passengers to get off in Bangor, it is unlikely, IMO.

MAH, what do these rules say exactly? I trust you are correct but I am not familiar with this rule change.
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MAH4546
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 4):
MAH, what do these rules say exactly? I trust you are correct but I am not familiar with this rule change.

When a plane lands in the US from a foreign country, everyone has to get off at the first stop and clear immigration. This has made domestic tag-ons a huge hassle.
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pizzaandplanes
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 7:15 am

Cargo would probably be the cash cow on this flight similar to CO's success with 757's to Scandinavia.

Quoting San747 (Reply 1):
Their fleet is 757-200s only, correct?

Finnair actually owns A340's and older MD-11's. So virtually they could fly almost anywhere in the USA with available aircraft to fly the routes.
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teme82
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 7:35 am

Quoting San747 (Reply 1):
Their fleet is 757-200s only

Yes they have 3 757-200 with RR engines  Wink

Quoting Pizzaandplanes (Reply 6):
Finnair actually owns A340's and older MD-11's. So virtually they could fly almost anywhere in the USA with available aircraft to fly the routes.

Finnair isn't going to fly only to JFK in USA. They don't see any potential in other cities.
BTW. Air Finland is independent company and has nothing to do with Finnair.
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vega
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 8:15 am

They have only 3 757-200s and could, based on how they are equipped/configured, fly HEL-BOS with little problem. JFK/EWR would probably be unachievable without severe weight restrictions (less passengers/revenue/profit). I'd guess BOS or MHT may be the U.S. destination.
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MAH4546
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 8):
They have only 3 757-200s and could, based on how they are equipped/configured, fly HEL-BOS with little problem. JFK/EWR would probably be unachievable without severe weight restrictions (less passengers/revenue/profit). I'd guess BOS or MHT may be the U.S. destination.

Finnair has charter flights between Boston and Finland via Sweden, and covers the market well. I very much doubt it is Boston or Manchester.

South Florida (in particular West Palm Beach) has the largest Finnish community outside of Finland and Stockholm.

The only logical answers are MIA, FLL, PBI, JFK, and EWR, but who knows - they might surprise us.

And then we have another likely possibility: they are applying to fly to US for the sake of applying, and not having to apply in the future if they decide to fly here. Many foreign airlines do this.

[Edited 2007-05-10 02:24:30]
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sw733
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 9:27 am

Quoting Pizzaandplanes (Reply 6):
Finnair actually owns A340's and older MD-11's. So virtually they could fly almost anywhere in the USA with available aircraft to fly the routes.

Am I missing something? Isn't the question about Air Finland, not Finnair?
 
Sukhoi
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 9:57 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
And then we have another likely possibility: they are applying to fly to US for the sake of applying, and not having to apply in the future if they decide to fly here. Many foreign airlines do this.

I think so!

Btw Air Finland FIF have 219 seats on there B757-200 less than Finnair AY 227 seats.
 
FFlyer
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 10:04 am

Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 11):
Btw Air Finland FIF have 219 seats on there B757-200 less than Finnair AY 227 seats

So, 219 less than 227....that's only 8 seats! That must be the most comfortable 752 ever. I wonder what the fares might be to at least cover the costs.

Sorry, I couldn't resist...
 
levg79
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting Pizzaandplanes (Reply 6):
Quoting San747 (Reply 1):
Their fleet is 757-200s only, correct?

Finnair actually owns A340's and older MD-11's. So virtually they could fly almost anywhere in the USA with available aircraft to fly the routes.

This thread is actually about OF, not AY. These are two separate companies. Here is what Wikipedia says about OF, It is owned by five individuals from the aviation, finance and travel marketing industries (Anssi Kivela, Harry Naivo (Chairman and Chief Financial Officer), Jussi Kivela, Mika Helenius (Chief Executive), and Lauri Komi) and has 210 employees

Quoting Vega (Reply 8):
JFK/EWR would probably be unachievable without severe weight restrictions (less passengers/revenue/profit).

Actually JFK-TXL and EWR-TXL are longer then JFK/EWR-HEL and DL and CO seem to be using 757s on those routes all the time. I wonder how their fares are going to be, this looks like a major potential competition for AY, although probably given the choice for a transatlantic flight, I'd rather get on MD-11 than a 757.

By the way, AY MD-11s are not older as San747 pointed out. Especially OH-LGE is the last ever MD-11 to be built.

Leo.
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FFlyer
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 10:35 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 13):
Actually JFK-TXL and EWR-TXL are longer then JFK/EWR-HEL and DL and CO seem to be using 757s on those routes all the time

No, not Delta. They don't have transatlantic 757 flights, yet.
 
levg79
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 14):
No, not Delta. They don't have transatlantic 757 flights, yet.

I guess I was mistaken, but CO's 757s are able to make it EWR-TXL non-stop, which is longer than EWR-HEL.

Leo.
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LTU932
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 10:55 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 13):
By the way, AY MD-11s are not older as San747 pointed out. Especially OH-LGE is the last ever MD-11 to be built.

Correction: D-ALCN, an LCAG MD-11F, is the last MD-11 ever built.  Wink OH-LGE is most likely the last MD-11 PAX aircraft ever built, while subsequent MD-11 deliveries, until the line was shut down, were all freighters.
 
san747
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 13):
By the way, AY MD-11s are not older as San747 pointed out.

Actually, Pizzaandplanes pointed that out... I don't want to be credited incorrectly!  Smile
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GARUDAROD
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 11:27 am

MAH4546,

You seem to be pretty up to date on the DOT filings. Do you know why CO,AA, DL and UA are given
copies of the proposed Foreign Carrier operation, but not NW? Or is it up to each carrier to request
the information?
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 11:51 am

Finnair has flown the 757-200 nonstop between HEL and JFK four times now so I'm assuming an Air Finland 757-200 could fly the leg without a stop. However if the flight is destined for MIA or FLL from HEL they would have to have a stopover point.
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andaman
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 12:49 pm

Quoting Pizzaandplanes (Reply 6):

Finnair actually owns A340's and older MD-11's. So virtually they could fly almost anywhere in the USA with available aircraft to fly the routes.

They could and they did. AY used to fly to SEA, LAX and SFO once, but hardly opening any new US destinations beside JFK soon. Their focus is in Asia, opening the 11th destination there next winter?

I wish all the best for little Air Finland, there aren't too many Finnish airliners there aat the moment. I just wish they would change their livery...
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
MAH4546
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 1:02 pm

Quoting Andaman (Reply 20):
They could and they did. AY used to fly to SEA, LAX and SFO once, but hardly opening any new US destinations beside JFK soon.

They also used to fly to MIA, during most of the 1990s, and then again in winter 03/04 and winter 05/06. Winter 05/06 was served by their charter division. It would be nice to see them back, and the planes filled easily, but Asia is where the money is at.
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andaman
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 1:29 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):

They also used to fly to MIA, during most of the 1990s, and then again in winter 03/04 and winter 05/06. Winter 05/06 was served by their charter division. It would be nice to see them back, and the planes filled easily, but Asia is where the money is at.

Yes, correct. When ever they expand in US again, MIA propably is the best guess.
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detroitflyer
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 2:01 pm

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 15):
I guess I was mistaken, but CO's 757s are able to make it EWR-TXL non-stop, which is longer than EWR-HEL.

LOOKS like you maybe mistaken again, EWR -TXL is NOT longer than EWR-HEL.
check out great circle mapper---they are not even close
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andaman
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 2:12 pm

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 23):

LOOKS like you maybe mistaken again, EWR -TXL is NOT longer than EWR-HEL.
check out great circle mapper---they are not even close

According to http://www.etn.nl/distance.htm:

NYC- Hel 3569 Nautical miles
NYC- Ber 3443 "
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Finnaviation
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 3:46 pm

Quoting Pizzaandplanes (Reply 6):
Finnair actually owns A340's and older MD-11's. So virtually they could fly almost anywhere in the USA with available aircraft to fly the routes

Finnair actually owns only one A340 and this aircraft is older than three of Finnairs MD-11's.

This ex-VS-crap A340 is from 1994 and MD-11s OH-LGE delivered 1998, OH-LGF 1996 and OH-LGG 1996.
OH-LGC delivered 1993 and OH-LGD 1994.


But anyway, Air Finland (OF) has nothing to do with AYs aircrafts.
 
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teme82
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 4:29 pm

Quoting Finnaviation (Reply 25):
But anyway, Air Finland (OF) has nothing to do with AYs aircrafts.

I said that on the 7th post. I think that Air Finland need winglets on their 757-200's  Wink
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Finnaviation
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 4:44 pm

I think OF needs to remove about 50 seats out of their 752's. Then I think OF is worth of flying,  Wink

Or then OF should consider larger aircrafts. After this they don't need fuel stops on their way to Asia or South America.
 
LordHowe
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 4:47 pm

Could there finally be now a possibility for Air Finland's fleet expansion? It has been discussed also earlier. They do also charters to Thailand and now they have to land somewhere in between to make it. If they had a widebody, they could expand their longhaul traffic also to other destinations.

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teme82
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 5:08 pm

second hand 767-300/400 would be nice for Air Finland. And they could do the premium seating for those who would pay for it on charter flight. Tui does it on their B747's
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andaman
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Thu May 10, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting Finnaviation (Reply 25):

Finnair actually owns only one A340

....and many more coming, two more this summer.

Would be great to see Air Finland growing and competing more seriously with Finnair... but please change that cheap livery  Sad
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airbuster
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Fri May 11, 2007 6:04 am

Would the 757 have enough range + reserves to doe Shannon-Florida? that would make sense too instead of making the fuel stop in the US....?
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iluv747400
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Fri May 11, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting Airbuster (Reply 31):
Would the 757 have enough range + reserves to doe Shannon-Florida? that would make sense too instead of making the fuel stop in the US....?

Or better yet, stop in Keflavik, which is probably closer to the Great Circle routing between HEL & South Florida. Icelandair gets as far as Orlando/Sanford with 752s, so MIA or FLL would likely be feasible.
 
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teme82
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Fri May 11, 2007 5:57 pm

Yeah Keflavik would be ideal stop in Air Finland's charters for Florida. But they should get some bigger planes. B767 would do fine since it has common cockpit with 757.  bigthumbsup 
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EFHK
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Sat May 12, 2007 2:52 am

Quoting LordHowe (Reply 28):
Could there finally be now a possibility for Air Finland's fleet expansion?

In don't think so, they have 3 752s and only 2 are used for the Finnish operation, 1 is leased out somewhere, or that's what I've understood.
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LordHowe
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Sat May 12, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting EFHK (Reply 34):
1 is leased out somewhere

I've seen one of them often in ARN - so maybe they do a lot of Swedish charters too.

But anyway, it would be nice if they could be able to grow ...

Regards,
LordHowe
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teme82
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RE: Air Finland Applies To Fly To The US

Sat May 12, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting LordHowe (Reply 35):

I've seen one of them often in ARN - so maybe they do a lot of Swedish charters too.

Air Finland is doing flights for JetX Airlines from ARN.
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