LY777
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AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 2:45 am

I have 2 questions:
-what is AF schedule to MIA for this summer?
-when will AF switch to 77W for its rroutes to MIA?
Thanks
Flown:717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, D8,D10,L1011, A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388
 
AH332
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 3:13 am

Hi,

AF flies daily to MIA with the 747-400. I took the flight back in June 2003. Nice service!

As for the 77W, I didn't even know AF was planning to switch planes on the route. I thought MIA was always going to be a 747-400 route. Maybe someone else has more insight.

Cheers,
Imad
Bledi Heya Al Djazaeer! // Next Flights: AB MIA-DUS-ORY, AF ORY-MRS-ALG
 
MAH4546
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
-what is AF schedule to MIA for this summer?

AF 90 CDG 1050-1415 MIA 744 Daily
AF 95 MIA 1740-0810+1 CDG 744 Daily

AF 3942 CAY 1245-1350 FDF 1440-1515 PTP 1615-1710 PAP 1810-2100 MIA 320 MoWeSa
AF 3943 MIA 0845-0935 PAP 1025-1310 PTP 1410-1445 FDF 1535-1840 CAY 320 TuThSu

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
-when will AF switch to 77W for its rroutes to MIA?

Unlikely, although the F cabin would be welcome for passengers connecting to Africa. MIA was one of the last AF destinations served with AF's F-class 744s. None the less, the 744 is perfect for the route, and the next aircraft change would probably be to a 380.
a.
 
LY777
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 4:40 am

Does AF send the 744s equipped with PTV in Y (F-GITI/J/H)?
Flown:717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, D8,D10,L1011, A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388
 
IberiaA319
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
-when will AF switch to 77W for its rroutes to MIA?

In 2008 or 2009. AF will add 6 B773 for several international routes, as discussed here on a.net, but MIA might see the A380 as well:
More B773ER For Air France (by FlySSC Oct 8 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting LY777 (Reply 3):
Does AF send the 744s equipped with PTV in Y (F-GITI/J/H)?

Well, right now F-GITJ is in MIA for today's flight to Paris (also a regular visitor during some weeks in April). But these three 744 aircrafts, F-GITI/J/H (with PTVs in the whole cabin) are sent randomly to several B744 destinations: SFO, BOS, CCS, MEX, JFK, YUL, GIG and ATL......and also MIA
 
jfk777
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 6:35 am

Miami will probably remain a once daily station, why not two ? Who knows. Later departures from CDG to Miami would offer little onward connection given Miami's type of traffic. I personally prefer a later departure both ways.
 
JJJ
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 3):
Does AF send the 744s equipped with PTV in Y (F-GITI/J/H)?

I took the flight in March and the only PTVs in Y were upstairs. Didn't get the reg, though.
 
A388
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 7:02 am

I always thaught AF will go for the A380 to MIA when it enters service with AF.

A388
 
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LTU932
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
I always thaught AF will go for the A380 to MIA when it enters service with AF.

Maybe you're confusing AF with LH. LH could very well opt for an upgrade of their FRA-MIA route to an A380, given that they currently serve MIA with a 747 like AF do.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8):
Maybe you're confusing AF with LH. LH could very well opt for an upgrade of their FRA-MIA route to an A380, given that they currently serve MIA with a 747 like AF do.

No, he isn't. Air France has said Miami is one of the destinations that the A380 was bought for, ever since they ordered them. Air France is bigger at MIA than LH, and not just because they also fly to Haiti. They consistantly have the highest or second highest loadfactor of any European carrier at MIA, always over 90%.
a.
 
A388
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 8:02 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
No, he isn't. Air France has said Miami is one of the destinations that the A380 was bought for, ever since they ordered them.

I will definately fly to Europe via MIA once airlines start using the A380. I can already see the A380 parked in front of me, wow  Smile

A388  bouncy 
 
cba
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
-when will AF switch to 77W for its rroutes to MIA?

I doubt that MIA will see the 77W. AF uses its 777 fleet on flights that have a high demand in F and J, while sending the A340 and 744 to the more touristy destinations. MIA seems to generate more Y demand for the CDG route, thus the 744 is a perfect match.

Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
I always thaught AF will go for the A380 to MIA when it enters service with AF.

It's a possibility. AF has said repeatedly that the first routes to see the A380 will likely be CDG-YUL, CDG-JFK, and CDG-NRT. While MIA could certainly see a daily A380, it won't be with one of the first few planes delivered.
 
A388
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 11):
I doubt that MIA will see the 77W. AF uses its 777 fleet on flights that have a high demand in F and J, while sending the A340 and 744 to the more touristy destinations.

Not entirely true. AF does have a few 77W's configured for leisure destinations (more Y seats) to the French Caribbean such as PTP, FDF and RUN.

A388
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 am

Quoting JJJ (Reply 6):
I took the flight in March and the only PTVs in Y were upstairs. Didn't get the reg, though.

These are the super-high-density ones, F-GITA, GITC and such, with a very tiny J cabin. I tried once to book a seat upstairs on a cheap ticket and they changed it. (for a window-less window seat... unlucky me!) I guess you either need the appropriate FF status or expensive enough airfare to get these, which i totally understand and agree with.

Quoting IberiaA319 (Reply 4):
But these three 744 aircrafts, F-GITI/J/H (with PTVs in the whole cabin) are sent randomly to several B744 destinations: SFO, BOS, CCS, MEX, JFK, YUL, GIG and ATL......and also MIA

But don't these have a larger J cabin and smaller Y cabin than the others, and hence how do they deal with the seat mismatch?

What is AF's 744 seating status at the moment by the way?
When I doubt... go running!
 
FlySSC
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting IberiaA319 (Reply 4):
but MIA might see the A380 as well:



Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
I always thaught AF will go for the A380 to MIA when it enters service with AF

NO WAY !! you will not see the AF A380 in MIA. There is not enough demand in premium classes (P & J) on this route for the A380 and the yield is too low.
If ever more capacity is needed, I would rather see a second flight on certain days (A343).

AF's A380 destinations planned are JFK, YUL, NRT, PEK, LAX and maybe SIN.

Quoting Cba (Reply 11):
I doubt that MIA will see the 77W. AF uses its 777 fleet on flights that have a high demand in F and J, while sending the A340 and 744 to the more touristy destinations.



Quoting A388 (Reply 12):
AF does have a few 77W's configured for leisure destinations (more Y seats) to the French Caribbean such as PTP, FDF and RUN.

I think some clarifications are needed here.

The B77W AF will send to MIA will be configured with J/Y class only (just like the B744 used now). This will be another different configuration from the "traditional" 8P/67J/235Y config. used on the international routes, or the Orly based B77W 14J/36S/400M used to FDF, PTP, RUN, CAY.

Beside MIA : BKK, GIG, SFO should get these new J/Y configured B77W in a near future (2009).

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 13):
These are the super-high-density ones, F-GITA, GITC and such, with a very tiny J cabin

This configuration (17J/60S/400M) is progressively removed and all the 13 B744 will be soon in the standard 40J/396Y configuration.
Only 3 aircraft are still in this config. : F-GITB, TC, TD.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 14):

NO WAY !! you will not see the AF A380 in MIA. There is not enough demand in premium classes (P & J) on this route for the A380 and the yield is too low.
If ever more capacity is needed, I would rather see a second flight on certain days (A343)

While priorities have certainly changed for AF, they have traditionally said that the 380 will be flown to MIA, and they worked with MIA to make sure their new gates in the south terminal are A380-ready. I don't get why AF's MIA route suddently isn't the strong performer it used to be. Swiss, Alitalia, Iberia, and British Airways do great at MIA, why doesn't AF?

[Edited 2007-05-11 03:48:24]
a.
 
cba
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 12):

Not entirely true. AF does have a few 77W's configured for leisure destinations (more Y seats) to the French Caribbean such as PTP, FDF and RUN.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 14):

The B77W AF will send to MIA will be configured with J/Y class only (just like the B744 used now). This will be another different configuration from the "traditional" 8P/67J/235Y config. used on the international routes, or the Orly based B77W 14J/36S/400M used to FDF, PTP, RUN, CAY.

So AF is now operating 3 different types of 77W aircraft, 1 with 3 classes, another with 2 classes, and a third, the people-hauler service from ORY-FDF etc? I didn't realize that they were implementing a third 77W configuration. Do you know which ones go where?
 
FlySSC
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
So AF is now operating 3 different types of 77W aircraft

Not yet ... but soon yes.

Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
Do you know which ones go where?

See Reply # 14.
 
FlySSC
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 11:46 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
While priorities have certainly changed for AF, they have traditionally said that the 380 will be flown to MIA

I don't think AF ever considered seriously to send the A380 to MIA.
Maybe some Journalists, or people here on A.Net did ... But I never read anything like this in any AF publications since the very first declarations of AF's CEO 5 years ago.

The A380 will be used on Premium routes. If MIA was one of them, AF would send a B77W now, or at least a B772ER instead of a B744 offering only 40 J seats Daily.
I don't see the A380, with 9P/80J/460Y (or so) replacing a B744 with 40J/396Y. That would not make sense.

The destinations for AF's A380 are now known for a long time : JFK & YUL. Then NRT. For sure.
Then should follow LAX and PEK. SIN was recently added to the list, considering the growth on the line following the use of the B77W , and thanks to the excellent results of the codeshare with QF.

[Edited 2007-05-11 04:53:41]
 
A388
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
So AF is now operating 3 different types of 77W aircraft, 1 with 3 classes, another with 2 classes, and a third, the people-hauler service from ORY-FDF etc? I didn't realize that they were implementing a third 77W configuration. Do you know which ones go where?

I am surprised to read about this third 77W configuration as well.


So will AF use the A380 to MIA or not? I remember reading this in a press release about AF and the A380 (?)

A388
 
MAH4546
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 12:05 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 18):
I don't think AF ever considered seriously to send the A380 to MIA.
Maybe some Journalists, or people here on A.Net did ... But I never read anything like this in any AF publications since the very first declarations of AF's CEO 5 years ago.

Of course they have.

Air France envisage d'affecter ses futurs A380 à cinq destinations au départ de Paris
vendredi 11 juillet 2003

Air France envisage d’utiliser les 10 exemplaires du futur avion géant A380 qu’elle a commandés à Airbus pour la desserte de cinq destinations au départ de Paris : Tokyo, New-York, Montréal, Los Angeles et Miami, a indiqué jeudi le PDG de la compagnie..



MIA is going to be pretty upset if it doesn't, because they have worked very closely with AF to prepare MIA to be A380-ready, because AF was supposed to be the first airline to use it to MIA. And as of this spring, they are still expecting it. Of course, there the commitment is only verbal and market conditions do change, so nothing is a sure thing. MIA is the perfect A380 market for AF, although they have struggled lately to bring up the yield. I don't understand why AF has been struggling with attracting business class passengers at MIA while most others have not. Lufthansa has also never been very successful at luring them.
a.
 
cba
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 12:58 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 19):

I am surprised to read about this third 77W configuration as well.

No kidding. Other than MIA, does anyone know where these birds will be flying? I know that the current 3-class 77W's go to JFK, IAD, LAX, NRT, PEK, SIN, HKG, etc, with the 2-class people-haulers going to the French Caribbean. So other than MIA, where will the new configuration go?
 
MAH4546
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 1:07 pm

Quoting Cba (Reply 21):
So other than MIA, where will the new configuration go?

Probably destinations like Bangkok, Boston, Rio de Janeiro, and San Francisco.
a.
 
bkkair
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 1:28 pm

AF A380 destinations (prediction), based on current flights.

JFK- currrently 6 daily flights YES
NRT- currently 4 daily flights YES
YUL-currently 3 daily flights MAYBE
LAX-currently 3 daily flights MAYBE

GRU has 2 daily, PEK has 2 daily and SIN has 1 daily so probably not yet ready for the A380.
 
FlySSC
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 3:30 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
Of course they have.

Air France envisage d'affecter ses futurs A380 à cinq destinations au départ de Paris
vendredi 11 juillet 2003

Air France envisage d'utiliser les 10 exemplaires du futur avion géant A380 qu'elle a commandé à Airbus pour la desserte de cinq destinations au départ de Paris : Tokyo, New-York, Montréal, Los Angeles et Miami, a indiqué jeudi le PDG de la compagnie..

That's what I said. Miami was mentionned (?) only in this quote and that was 5 years ago. This article continues in saying that AF will use its A380 to these destinations during spring 2006 and 2007 ... Since this was published, MIA never appeared among the potential destinations for AF's A380.

Quoting Bkkair (Reply 23):
SIN has 1 daily so probably not yet ready for the A380

SIN has 1 Daily flight and a second flight cannot be added for the moment due to bilateral agreement so the only way for AF to increase the offer is to use a bigger aircraft on the route ...
 
HB-IWC
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 4:56 pm

I don't understand all the raving about AF at MIA here. MIA, although not a money loser, is not among the higher yielding North American destinations for Air France, and it hasn't been for quite a while. In fact, MIA is, together with ORD and SFO, among the airline's weaker financial performers in the region. The B744, with its relatively small premium cabin, is not normally deployed to AF's top yielding markets, the exception probably being GIG, where AF is soon adding extra capacity to overcome the relative shortage of premium seats, and where even the deployment of the 3-class triple sevens is being contemplated.

As for MIA, after KLM abandoned the destination, AF provided additional A343 capacity for a while, yet those additional flights have long since been given up. I have not seen any mentioning of MIA in any recent documents regarding future A380 deployment either. As far as the A380 goes, JFK and YUL seem to be certainties, whereas NRT is likely the third destination. SIN has been a stellar performer during recent seasons and, given the airline's inability to add frequencies there, it is now being considered for A380 service as well.

Air France will eventually bring the B77W to MIA for sure, as it will do with other B744 high capacity destinations such as SFO (in summer), BKK (in winter), DEL (in winter), and likely also YYZ (in summer), ATL, CCS and BOS. As said, these B77Ws will be configured in a 2-class mainline configuration and will be based at CDG. At that point, AF will indeed introduce a third B77W configuration apart from the mainline 3-class configuration at CDG and the COI configuration at ORY.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 5:15 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 25):
I don't understand all the raving about AF at MIA here.

What raving? Nobody is raving. AF hasn't done as well at MIA as they should be doing. It speaks poorly for AF more than anything else, because AZ, IB, BA, etc. are able to make MIA work very well. Why not AF?

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 24):

That's what I said. Miami was mentionned (?) only in this quote and that was 5 years ago. This article continues in saying that AF will use its A380 to these destinations during spring 2006 and 2007 ... Since this was published, MIA never appeared among the potential destinations for AF's A380.

I agree that the 77W configuration will be well-suited for MIA. All I know, however, is that AF has been working with MIA officials to accomadate the A380 for the new South Terminal, where AF will be relocating late this year. Lufthansa has also been working with MIA for A380 service.

Again, plans change, I wouldn't be surprised if AF does not send the A380 to MIA, but MIA officials are expecting it.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 25):
As for MIA, after KLM abandoned the destination, AF provided additional A343 capacity for a while, yet those additional flights have long since been given up.

Those flight never operated outside of two weeks during X-Mas.

[Edited 2007-05-11 10:22:55]
a.
 
JJJ
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 5:26 pm

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 13):
These are the super-high-density ones, F-GITA, GITC and such, with a very tiny J cabin. I tried once to book a seat upstairs on a cheap ticket and they changed it. (for a window-less window seat... unlucky me!) I guess you either need the appropriate FF status or expensive enough airfare to get these, which i totally understand and agree with.

I'm FB Gold and so far it has worked in getting me a window seat upstairs Big grin

Anyone knows the seat pitch up there for sure? I am certain it won't be far from some premium economy products others are offering.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Fri May 11, 2007 6:11 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 26):
AF hasn't done as well at MIA as they should be doing. It speaks poorly for AF more than anything else, because AZ, IB, BA, etc. are able to make MIA work very well. Why not AF?

Well, the same could be said of BOS, where AF has decided not to operate First Class cabins, unlike many of its European competitors. Whether or not the AF strategy at both MIA and BOS is the right one remains to be seen, but for the time being, MIA, together with ORD and SFO, are the weaker stations in the airline's North American network.

A pretty good indicator as to how these stations have not been stellar performers are the frequency reductions that each of them have seen over the years. SFO was once served by 10 weekly frequencies, and these additional flights have not returned. Equally so, ORD once received additional frequencies, and right now, it is not even served daily during the winter season. As for MIA, I have the 2000-2001 AF winter timetable here with me, which indicates 11 weekly B747 roundtrips on the CDG MIA route. Frequency cuts made at MIA after 9/11 have obviously not been reinstated.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 26):
Those flight never operated outside of two weeks during X-Mas.

I have these additional flights operating with A343 for the better part of the 2004-2005 winter season, but I might be wrong as I don't have the AF timetable with me here.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Sat May 12, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 28):
As for MIA, I have the 2000-2001 AF winter timetable here with me, which indicates 11 weekly B747 roundtrips on the CDG MIA route.

Summer fo 2001, MIA-CDG was double daily, 7x 744 and 7x 343. In fact, when Air France announced their post-9/11 schedule, it was JFK 3x daily, MIA 2x daily, and everything else 1x daily. MIA was a star performer back then. Nowadays, Alitalia is the top dog at MIA in terms of yields (thanks to the strong business ties between Miami and Italy).

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 28):
I have these additional flights operating with A343 for the better part of the 2004-2005 winter season, but I might be wrong as I don't have the AF timetable with me here.

It was indeed in the timetable, but it never operated outside of two weeks around Christmas.
a.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Sat May 12, 2007 2:02 am

Thanks FlySSC.

Actually, how about AF sending the A380 to JNB? With 10 of them, I'm sure that eventually it won't be only restricted to JFK, YUL, NRT, (SIN), (MIA), (LAX)...
I know JNB doesn't have the size of a market like JFK, but it seems that almost all airlines fly there in the same time (at night), thus limiting the possibility of adding new flights. So, if a capacity increase is needed but the new possible time for a second flight is unconvenient and doesn't help, a larger aircraft is the logical way to go...
When I doubt... go running!
 
B752OS
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Sat May 12, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):
Summer fo 2001, MIA-CDG was double daily, 7x 744 and 7x 343. In fact, when Air France announced their post-9/11 schedule, it was JFK 3x daily, MIA 2x daily, and everything else 1x daily. MIA was a star performer back then. Nowadays, Alitalia is the top dog at MIA in terms of yields (thanks to the strong business ties between Miami and Italy).



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
MIA is going to be pretty upset if it doesn't, because they have worked very closely with AF to prepare MIA to be A380-ready, because AF was supposed to be the first airline to use it to MIA. And as of this spring, they are still expecting it. Of course, there the commitment is only verbal and market conditions do change, so nothing is a sure thing. MIA is the perfect A380 market for AF, although they have struggled lately to bring up the yield. I don't understand why AF has been struggling with attracting business class passengers at MIA while most others have not. Lufthansa has also never been very successful at luring them.

I don't see why it's a big deal if AF sends the 380. I personally don't see the HUGE deal about the thing, to me, it's just a gimmick plane. It's ugly and will be a bitch to depart from. Wouldn't you prefer MIA to see a second frequency rather than the 380 come to town? MIA has great service to CDG with year round AA 763 and AF 744 service. Of course, as you mentioned, MIA spent time and money maiing their airport ready, along with all the other construction problems/issues, this must piss them off.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 28):
Well, the same could be said of BOS, where AF has decided not to operate First Class cabins, unlike many of its European competitors. Whether or not the AF strategy at both MIA and BOS is the right one remains to be seen, but for the time being, MIA, together with ORD and SFO, are the weaker stations in the airline's North American network.

I wonder if AF will extend the season second daily no-stop between BOS-CDG, operated with a 343, in addition to the daily 744 service.

[Edited 2007-05-11 19:13:25]
 
FlySSC
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Sat May 12, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 28):
for the time being, MIA, together with ORD and SFO, are the weaker stations in the airline's North American network.

Correct. ORD, loosing money, being the "weakest" AF destination in North America.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 30):
Actually, how about AF sending the A380 to JNB?

I doubt. As you mentionned,AF has only 10 A380 on order (+ 4 Options).
3 aircraft are needed to operate a Daily CDG-NRT-CDG. Add to this a Daily JFK, a Daily YUL, + LAX and/or PEK and this is it ... there won't be enough aircraft to operate another flight like JNB, where the plane sits on the tarmac the whole day (one of the 2 flights at JNB early in the morning and leaves back to Europe on the evening).

[Edited 2007-05-11 19:24:31]
 
MAH4546
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RE: AF To MIA: A Few Questions

Sat May 12, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 31):
ouldn't you prefer MIA to see a second frequency rather than the 380 come to town?

Personally, yes, I would like to see that over just an A380, but I think, for a market like Miami-Paris that is heavily leisure, the A380 is better. They don't need the frequency, they could use the capacity. As it is now, AF's MIA-CDG flight average 90%+ loadfactors year-round.
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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos