xbraniffone
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:12 am

Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Fri May 11, 2007 3:10 am

You knew this was going to happen!

Oi !!!!!


From Mpls, Star and Tribune:

"When Delta Air Lines emerged from bankruptcy last week, it was able to present a picture to the world of employees cheering the company's future and the CEO who led them through reorganization.
Northwest Airlines is planning to follow suit and leave bankruptcy next month, but with far less enthusiasm among many of its workers.

Instead, they remain focused on the $26.6 million in stock awards for CEO Doug Steenland that the airline revealed Friday.

Union leaders at Northwest and some airline observers argue that the stock awards to Steenland and other top executives could make labor unrest as much a fixture of the new Northwest as it was at the airline before bankruptcy.

"Rank-and-file labor feels it's next to impossible for [Steenland] to motivate this group after basically having taken advantage of us and using the Chapter 11 [bankruptcy] process to enrich himself," A. Ray Miller, vice chairman of the Northwest pilots union, said in an interview.

Steenland's stock allocation and awards of $10 million to $13.5 million each for four other top executives "kills their credibility" as leaders of an airline, Miller said."

Complete article at Mpls Star Trib

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1172996.html
DC3 8 9 10, 1011, BAC111, 707 720 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 320 330 340
 
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chrisnh
Posts: 3375
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Fri May 11, 2007 3:17 am

Ordinarily I side with management, feeling that Union people only care about how long their coffee breaks are. Scream all you want about that perception; it's out there and in many cases justified.

Here, I side with the unions. The airline industry has probably THE most rancorous of all management-worker relationships, and for this guy to pull in that kind of money...JUST as the industry is trying to mend its fences...is horrible. In the name of saving their company, the rank-and-file gave up a ton; they conceded a boatload. In the face of that, there's this money-grabbing CEO.

Northwest deserves all the bad press they're getting.

Chris in NH
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5007
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Fri May 11, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Xbraniffone (Thread starter):
nstead, they remain focused on the $26.6 million in stock awards for CEO Doug Steenland that the airline revealed Friday.

It means diddly squat unless the airline performs , the market perceives value in the stock and the price is run up.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2539
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Fri May 11, 2007 3:25 am

Gee lets take a look at two Ch 11 case studies (and im keeping it to FACTS, so no flaming!)

Delta

CEO cuts his own salary to 300K, no bonuses or stock rewards
employee morale (in general) amung the highest in the industry
Significant changes made in fleet, service, customer focus
Creating a diverse route network


Northwest

CEO gets millions
Thousands of airport workers lost jobs and were contracted out
Labor disputes with several groups, going on for well over a year
No significant changes to product or route network.Yea 757s accross the pond will be good for them but its not anything no one else is doing, same with E175/CR9


Now you are an investor....which one are you going to put money into?
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Kohflot
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 5:31 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Fri May 11, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3):
Now you are an investor....which one are you going to put money into?

ExxonMobil
Ask why..
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Fri May 11, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3):

employee morale (in general) amung the highest in the industry

From what I hear, Wal-Mart does not have particularly good employee morale. They are one of the most profitable companies in the world.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3):

No significant changes to product or route network.Yea 757s accross the pond will be good for them but its not anything no one else is doing, same with E175/CR9

Remember, though, Northwest has lucrative Asian and intra-Asia routes that Delta doesn't have.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2539
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Fri May 11, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 5):
Remember, though, Northwest has lucrative Asian and intra-Asia routes that Delta doesn't have.

They had that Pre-Ch11 too, didnt seem to be enough then.....will it be enough in the future?
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
sparklehorse12
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:19 pm

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Fri May 11, 2007 11:41 am

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 4):
Gee lets take a look at two Ch 11 case studies (and im keeping it to FACTS, so no flaming!)

Delta

CEO cuts his own salary to 300K, no bonuses or stock rewards
employee morale (in general) amung the highest in the industry
Significant changes made in fleet, service, customer focus
Creating a diverse route network


Northwest

CEO gets millions
Thousands of airport workers lost jobs and were contracted out
Labor disputes with several groups, going on for well over a year
No significant changes to product or route network.Yea 757s accross the pond will be good for them but its not anything no one else is doing, same with E175/CR9


Now you are an investor....which one are you going to put money into?

What would you expect from some execs these days. QF CEO Geoff Dixon secured a wage freeze on workers while his pay and bonuses increased........
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
N174UA
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Fri May 11, 2007 12:36 pm

Unless things change DRAMATICALLY, I don't see NW (and UA for that matter) staying in the game long term. Both are candidates for takeover right now.

The labor-relations well at both carriers is poisoned. It didn't have to be that way, but decades of culture that emphasized adversarial relationships with employees has brought us to this point.

The more things change at Cobra Airlines (NW) the more they stay the same.
 
PGNCS
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:07 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Fri May 11, 2007 1:40 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 5):
Remember, though, Northwest has lucrative Asian and intra-Asia routes that Delta doesn't have.

So? Delta has lucrative routes across the Atlantic and to South America that NWA doesn't have. How is that germane?
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3):
Yea 757s accross the pond will be good for them but its not anything no one else is doing

Uh, CO is doing it RIGHT NOW, and very successfully, I might add.

But on this subject, I don't blame the rank-and-file for being pissed off, and they should be, after all they've been through. I would demand, if I were them, that the CEO step down as a condition of leaving Ch 11. I doubt that would happen, but it's obscene when someone demands sacrifice of his workers, while he himself sacrificed not a thing.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Sean-SAN-
Posts: 693
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:02 pm

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Sat May 12, 2007 12:28 am

Northwest employees are like a child that was repeatedly abused during childhood... at a certain point, no matter what you do, they're going to be messed up. Northwest employees have been repeatedly abused, and at this point the airline would probably be better off being absorbed into another company.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12423
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Sat May 12, 2007 12:38 am

While the top executives are critical for the survival and getting out of BK of NW, they are getting too much in stock. Perhaps some kind of profit sharing plan, where employees get some stock, would be better. It would give employees an incentive in their work, would offer some compenastion for their give-backs, as well as a stake in keeping the company alive. Of course, NW's problems go back to the big money deals and draining of their cash by those fat cats.
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Sat May 12, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting Xbraniffone (Thread starter):
Steenland's stock allocation and awards of $10 million to $13.5 million each for four other top executives "kills their credibility" as leaders of an airline, Miller said."

Corporate America. Big surprise.

Credibility also lies with the Boards of Directors that approve such things.
While I am not keen on government intervention I am looking forward to new laws due for proposal by congress in regards to the ability of the "little" investors to make key votes. Especially since, as usual, greed rather than common sense has been the rule.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
MD95
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:27 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Sat May 12, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 13):
Boards of Directors

And who make up the board of Directors? Usually are CEO/Top Managers of other company. I expect some qui-pro-quo.

I approve your salary and in the board of my company you approve my salary.
dario
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Sat May 12, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 11):
Northwest employees are like a child that was repeatedly abused during childhood... at a certain point, no matter what you do, they're going to be messed up. Northwest employees have been repeatedly abused, and at this point the airline would probably be better off being absorbed into another company.

Problem is, who would WANT such a dysfunctional family? The routes are lucrative, especially in Asia, but the rest can be seen as something that most airlines would not want to touch.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Sat May 12, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting MD95 (Reply 14):
I approve your salary and in the board of my company you approve my salary

Thats the way its been going. Sickening isn't it.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Sat May 12, 2007 3:31 am

Another part I love is how they're getting all the new reissued post-bankruptcy stock while their loyal shareholders that kept the company alive and have lots hundreds of millions on Northwest stock are going to get the nice final thank you by having their shares canceled when NW exits bankruptcy. This management has show they're in it for nothing more than themselves and they're willing to ruin lives to make a buck.


So heres the way I see it, these executives are getting a lot of this month in the form of stock. Well, an organized movement by the employees can make that stock fall out of the sky faster than a sack of bricks. I don't work for Northwest but I'd love to see NW's employees create an effort to make that company's stock, and therefore the executive's fortunes, as worthless as possible. It wouldn't even have to happen, just the credible threat of it happening would piss off the rest of the company's shareholders so badly that the entire top management would be ousted before they even knew what hit them.

Unlike many other industries, the airlines are ones where even a small group of employees really do control the success or failure of the corporation. Airlines require all the pieces of the puzzle to work to get the job done, if even one piece doesn't do its part, the whole thing fails. Employees know that and employers know that... its time to see some action. I'm not condoning anything illegal, there are many legal ways that don't even involve striking for any one employee group to ground the airline in a matter days. It just has to be organized and planned ahead properly with full participation.
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Sat May 12, 2007 8:47 am

I work for NW also and somehow that really sounds a lot like shooting yourself in the foot to spite your face. If NW stock tanks we are up for a merger probably with DL. Do you really want that? If you think NW has a core of employees who can make the company fail and you want to motivate them, forget it. They already ARE.

We have got to start thinking long term. If Steenland and group had not worked this BK out to the appeal of the creditors we both already would be out of a job. It was nasty and ugly and the long time employees that have lost everything seeing their jobs cobbled out to lowest bidders absolutely sickens me and it's going to be near impossible to replace their expertise, dedication, and work ethics and maintain any sign of cohesiveness. I know that sometimes it seems that so much is piled onto the remaining troops trying to hold it together with what seems like no help from the replacements or management that task feels impossible and we want to lash out. We can't. It's our investment.

Their is nothing you or I can do to change the way able management is attracted to a job. Their compensation simply is not in our realm. But try and picture that ALL our saleries, benifits, pensions ect. are dependent on their performance. That's all 35,000 plus of us. That's concentration personified. To dilute that reverse it to a group making it nasty for them and divide it by the number in the group. Sure you could tick some customers off. So what. That makes the sacrifice already made a waste. We can all be rewarded eventually with a profitable company and things like the profit sharing plan are working (I think they should be shared with those that lost their jobs however). We really don't have a choice but to try to find constructive ways to build the company.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
KarlB737
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest

Mon May 14, 2007 2:42 am

The title of the thread states "Emotions Over CEO's Pay Run High At Northwest". It appears that it is running high almost at every airline. Xbraniffone mentions Northwest. Lets add American and United as well.

I can understand reward for executive hard work. However in the airline industry as it stands today I believe that since the employees have made the biggest sacrifice this excess in exec salary clearly defeats what management is trying to accomplish in cutting costs and streamlining the operation. It is also a slap in the face to every man and woman who truly are the airline and its backbone.

3 Airline Groups Reacting:

American Pilots Plan New Protest
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/st.../daily35.html?b=1178510400^1461215

NWA Attendants Will Protest Exec Payouts
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincitie.../daily46.html?b=1178510400^1461717

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is one thing to know about this problem but when I see actual employees and I see their faces and they look at us and share their concerns I can't overlook the issue. Please note the United employees interviewed in the following link which includes a video of the employees I speak of.

United Pilots Protest High Executive Salaries
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&id=5293582