dutchdragon
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:19 am

KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 12:04 pm

I wanted to ask if anyone knows of any fact or rumours of KLM flying AMS-SEA and v.v. either currently to to start sometime soon?

I have a friend over in the Netherlands who just got a job with them as a flight attendant ( I am needlessly jealous, of course ! :-P LOL ) and she said that she saw something on their website about such a flying either currently or to be offered soon.

I "tried" to check out their website to see if I could find out about it, but I couldn't find it.

Does anyone know anything about this ?

Please advise .....

Thank you all and have a great weekend !  Smile
 
runway23
Posts: 1914
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 12:12 pm

Quoting Dutchdragon (Thread starter):
I wanted to ask if anyone knows of any fact or rumours of KLM flying AMS-SEA and v.v. either currently to to start sometime soon?

KLM are already on the market by the mere fact that NW operate the service and that revenue is split between KL and NW.

Unless, for operational reasons NW ask KL to operate it you won't see KL equipment in SEA.
 
terryb99
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:35 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 12:14 pm

That was my first thought, having taken the SEA-AMS-SEA flight on NW a few months ago.

Why would KLM duplicate a NW route?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 12:18 pm

Quoting Terryb99 (Reply 2):
Why would KLM duplicate a NW route?

They won't. They revenue share.
a.
 
N174UA
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 12:28 pm

If anything, you'll see PDX-AMS first using an A330.

NW/KL have SEA locked up already, and given that NW is doing well (so far) in PDX, I would look for them to add their footprint with a flight to Europe out of PDX to give LH a run for their money.

That said, LH knows that, and will likely upgrade PDX-FRA to daily year-round, but likely to a bigger plane, and I would guess an A346.
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 12:37 pm

Plus, isn't AF starting CDG-SEA soon?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
N174UA
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 12:49 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Plus, isn't AF starting CDG-SEA soon?

June 1, I believe it is. With an A330.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 12:59 pm

Does NW operate a 332 or 333 on the SEA-AMS route?
 
HECA
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:35 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 6:01 pm

Quoting Cba (Reply 7):
Does NW operate a 332 or 333 on the SEA-AMS route?

I believe they operate the 332 out of SEA, since it continues from AMS to India.
KL, LH, LX, BA, AF, TK, UX, TP, AZ, HV, SK, IB, WX, UA, AA, US, DL, AC, LA, KQ, MS, 4D, ZA, RJ, QR, EK, CX, HX, JL, SQ, MH, FY, MU, CA, TG, UL, FD, K6
 
roseflyer
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RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 10:21 pm

NW would strategically want to keep the SEA-AMS route since it helps them with maintenance and with the SEA-NRT route. The AMS-SEA flight actually arrives after the SEA-AMS flight departs. That plane usually sits overnight in SEA for maintenance or flies as a second late afternoon departure to NRT. For scheduling reasons, NW will keep this route and not hand it over to KL.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 9):
NW would strategically want to keep the SEA-AMS route since it helps them with maintenance and with the SEA-NRT route. The AMS-SEA flight actually arrives after the SEA-AMS flight departs. That plane usually sits overnight in SEA for maintenance or flies as a second late afternoon departure to NRT. For scheduling reasons, NW will keep this route and not hand it over to KL.

Are you saying that NW will maintenance check an A330 everyday at SEA ?
And how do they schedule that with the 332 and 333's?

KL911
 
alexinwa
Posts: 865
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2000 2:08 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 10:45 pm

I have seem 333's/332's swapped out on MSP-SEA. I am guessing that it is for maintenance checks. The 333 isn't scheduled in out of SEA so it's a guess.

Now with the added NRT flights, at times you see 3 330's sitting around SEA
You mad Bro???
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 10:56 pm

Agreed that SEA-AMS, since already served by NW, doesn't make sense to KL unless the demand is huge, I don't know what the loads are like. As for PDX, is there sufficient O&D to support an AMS n/s? There's really not much in the way of connecting options there, so I would think it would have to all be local. The only cnx I can see that makes sense is to NW to NRT, and that's already covered at SEA. As for AF coming to SEA, it'll be great to see them get some new international service, especially from the European side.
 
AAflyguy
Posts: 228
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:59 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 pm

Are there ever KL Flight Attendants onboard NW flights? Didn't airlines used to do this on select routes? I seem to recall they did, but have no idea which airlines or routes. Just a thought as to what that newly hired KL flight attendant may have read.
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 12):
There's really not much in the way of connecting options there, so I would think it would have to all be local. The only cnx I can see that makes sense is to NW to NRT, and that's already covered at SEA

Which actually doesn't make sense at all since KL has the AMS-NRT nonstop daily.
Why fly AMS-SEA-NRT?

KL911
 
flyPBA
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:10 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Fri May 11, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 10):
Are you saying that NW will maintenance check an A330 everyday at SEA ?
And how do they schedule that with the 332 and 333's?

KL911

they do have a rather large hanger at SeaTac ...
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 14):
Which actually doesn't make sense at all since KL has the AMS-NRT nonstop daily.
Why fly AMS-SEA-NRT?

It's all about aircraft use maximization. NW doesn't serve AMS-SEA-NRT in one flight. The 332 departs AMS and arrives in SEA after the SEA-AMS flight departs. That aircraft then spends the night in SEA and turns around to operate the next day's SEA-NRT. Meanwhile, the 332 returning from NRT to SEA operates the SEA-AMS flight while the other 332 is enroute from AMS.

Sounds a bit complicated, but this is how airlines get good use out of their fleets. If an aircraft is on the ground for an extended period of time, then it's not making money.
 
kl911
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
It's all about aircraft use maximization. NW doesn't serve AMS-SEA-NRT in one flight. The 332 departs AMS and arrives in SEA after the SEA-AMS flight departs. That aircraft then spends the night in SEA and turns around to operate the next day's SEA-NRT. Meanwhile, the 332 returning from NRT to SEA operates the SEA-AMS flight while the other 332 is enroute from AMS.

Sounds a bit complicated, but this is how airlines get good use out of their fleets. If an aircraft is on the ground for an extended period of time, then it's not making money.

I know that, but they way he said it was for connections AMS-SEA-NRT, that is what I dont buy.

KL911
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 12:17 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 17):

I know that, but they way he said it was for connections AMS-SEA-NRT, that is what I dont buy.

Ohh, ok. Yeah that doesn't really make a lot of sense. Connecting through SEA to get from AMS to NRT easily ads at least an extra 10 hours onto the journey, and that's just in pure flight time!
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5179
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Plus, isn't AF starting CDG-SEA soon?



Quoting N174UA (Reply 6):
June 1, I believe it is. With an A330.

June 11.
CDG-SEA-CDG Daily. A332. Will be reduced to 5 x Weekly next winter season.
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 12:37 am

KLM Cargo website states they are starting Seattle.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting HECA (Reply 8):
I believe they operate the 332 out of SEA, since it continues from AMS to India.

All NWA flights to Amsterdam operate 333s.
I wish I were flying
 
doug_or
Posts: 3118
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 12):
As for PDX, is there sufficient O&D to support an AMS n/s? There's really not much in the way of connecting options there, so I would think it would have to all be local

Not sure about KL, but NW code shares with QX, who have a huge presence in PDX. Beyond that, the O&D PDX-AMS would probably be pretty small, relying on connections @ AMS. LH seems to be doing alright on PDX-FRA, but a PDX-AMS flight would double the europeans capacity out of PDX, and I suspect this town ain't big enough for the two of them....
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 21):
All NWA flights to Amsterdam operate 333s.

No that is not correct. NW originally operated the A333 from SEA to AMS when it switched from a DC10, but later switched the flight to the A332. This was for multiple reasons, but SEA-AMS was NW's longest A333 route and it pushed the range of that plane. SEA-AMS is actually longer than SEA-NRT.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 21):

All NWA flights to Amsterdam operate 333s.

Going to have to disagree there. NW's timetable shows the 332 handling the SEA-AMS runs.
 
mk777
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:48 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 1:35 am

Quoting HECA (Reply 8):
I believe they operate the 332 out of SEA, since it continues from AMS to India.

I thought the A332 that NW operates to BOM starts out at MSP rather than SEA but i guess that has changed!!! NW34 does fly out from SEA!!!

[Edited 2007-05-11 18:38:20]
come fly with me
 
Jano
Posts: 744
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:48 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 24):
Going to have to disagree there. NW's timetable shows the 332 handling the SEA-AMS runs.

Plus MEM NW57/58 too.
The Widget Air Line :)
 
rwsea
Posts: 2422
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 12):
really not much in the way of connecting options there, so I would think it would have to all be local.

When I've waited for my baggage at customs after coming off the AMS-SEA flight, it has been apparent that lots of people were connecting. Lots to QX and AS, and also a good number (at least a dozen) of Europeans connecting to Hawaii.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 21):
All NWA flights to Amsterdam operate 333s.

Nope. SEA, MEM, and BOM are all 332s.
 
thepilot
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:34 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 20):
KLM Cargo website states they are starting Seattle.

Hmm, Martinair already operates this route with MD11s and B744s, I think. They are based out of the Netherlands, so I wonder if this is overkill.
From YVR
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 2:31 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 17):
I know that, but they way he said it was for connections AMS-SEA-NRT, that is what I dont buy.

I think you misunderstood my post I was actually trying to make the point there is NO need for AMS pax to connect in SEA or PDX to get to NRT. That was just thrown out there as the only likely scenario, which is UNlikely. I agree, PDX makes no sense when pax can take QX every 1/2 hour to SEA and connect there to AMS.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 23):
This was for multiple reasons, but SEA-AMS was NW's longest A333 route and it pushed the range of that plane. SEA-AMS is actually longer than SEA-NRT.

SEA-AMS is well within the range of the A333; I'd be surprised if they had payload issues. The A330 has a range of about 5600nm, with SEA-AMS being around 4300nm. Even when factoring west bound winds, I'd be surprised if they had to impose payload restrictions.
 
Jano
Posts: 744
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:48 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 30):
SEA-AMS is well within the range of the A333; I'd be surprised if they had payload issues. The A330 has a range of about 5600nm, with SEA-AMS being around 4300nm. Even when factoring west bound winds, I'd be surprised if they had to impose payload restrictions.

We do not know how much cargo NW is hauling between those 2 cities.
The Widget Air Line :)
 
NorthstarBoy
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:53 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 25):
thought the A332 that NW operates to BOM starts out at MSP rather than SEA but i guess that has changed!!! NW34 does fly out from SEA!!!

it has changed, actually, NW 42 used to operate as a DC-10 Msp-Ams-Bom, but i think when they made the switch to the A330 they also switched the origin of the Ams-Bom flight from Msp to Sea, i'm guessing to better accomodate the large Indian population living in the Seattle/Vancouver area, since NW no longer flies YVR-MSP.

On a slightly unrelated note, when is NW going to realize that it's alot more convenient for their passengers to be able to checkin for onward KLM flights from AMS at their home airport, rather than endure the hassle of the transfer desk, KLM already checks passengers all the way through from europe to the United States, NW needs to get with the program and start issuing through boarding passes so pax can avoid the transfer desk and possible missed flights. Rant over.
Yes, I'd like to see airbus go under so Boeing can have their customers!
 
SR 103
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 6:19 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 32):
On a slightly unrelated note, when is NW going to realize that it's alot more convenient for their passengers to be able to checkin for onward KLM flights from AMS at their home airport, rather than endure the hassle of the transfer desk,

In all the years I have been flying MCO-DTW/MEM/MSP-AMS-India/Middle East; NW has always issued my onwards boarding passes in Orlando. I am not sure what your home airport is, but Orlando seems to have no problem with this. In fact neither does Houston or Miami, two other airports I have flown from in the past. My complaint lies with CO and onwards connections, not NW.

SR 103
 
fkruiver
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 5:08 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 9:28 am

Pffff rumours rumours rumours...i work for klm and there have always been such rumours...want to add some more? How about Panama and Sydney..... Wink
 
LHboyatDTW
Posts: 764
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:53 pm

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 10:27 am

Quoting Fkruiver (Reply 34):

How about that rumored 3-4-3 config on your upcoming 77Ws  stirthepot 

If KL were to fly to SEA, then why not DTW, MEM, and MSP as well? They used to operate into all these places, but due to their alliance with NW and all of them being A330 bases, they let NW go to AMS from those places. As much as I'd welcome back KL here with open arms, I think it will be a long time until that happens.
The air in the clouds is very pure and fine, bracing and delicious because it's the same the angels breathe.
 
Jano
Posts: 744
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:48 am

RE: KLM To SEA?

Sat May 12, 2007 11:51 am

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 32):
On a slightly unrelated note, when is NW going to realize that it's alot more convenient for their passengers to be able to checkin for onward KLM flights from AMS at their home airport, rather than endure the hassle of the transfer desk, KLM already checks passengers all the way through from europe to the United States, NW needs to get with the program and start issuing through boarding passes so pax can avoid the transfer desk and possible missed flights. Rant over.

What route do you fly? I fly one of these
1. TYS-DTW or MEM-AMS-VIE
2. TYS-DTW or MEM-AMS-PRG-ILZ or BTS
3. TYS-DTW-FRA-PRG-ILZ
every two months
For #1 and #2 I have always gotten all BPs in last 10 years. For #3 I get them only as far as FRA. My hunch it has something to do with flying via FRA and conneting to OK in non SkyTeam hub.

There is also a "Single Checkin" SkyTeam policy, see
http://www.skyteam.com/EN/benefits/skyteam_top10benefits/index.jsp
You only check-in once when connecting to other SkyTeam airline flights. ****
**** With a maximum of two SkyTeam airlines in your itinerary, and a maximum of three connections.
The Widget Air Line :)

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