Brymon
Topic Author
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2000 2:46 am

BA New Club World Re-fit

Fri May 11, 2007 7:18 pm

Anybody have info on how many aircraft have had the re-fit? Have the re-fits started on the 772 fleet yet?

Thanks
 
Sketty222
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Fri May 11, 2007 7:22 pm

All of the 747's on the JFK route are done and they will now be continuing on with the rest of the 747 fleet. I think I read somewhere else on here that there converting around 3-4 a month

Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Fri May 11, 2007 7:36 pm

I had my first chance to try out the new seats on my return from Washington last week (travelled out on a B777 with old seats).

I actually was disappointed. I was on upper deck in first row on left side. I found that every-time the pax in the window seat moved, the whole think moved and shaked. It was quite noticeable and in one case spilled my beer. It was disturbing enough that I will avoid them, where I can, in the future.

Also I thought there was supposed to be some sort of extra mattress put down by the crew. No sign of that on my flight.

I think they need to find some way to secure these seats better. I don't think they would be very safe in an accident.
 
tcxdegsy
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:47 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Fri May 11, 2007 7:49 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 2):
Also I thought there was supposed to be some sort of extra mattress put down by the crew. No sign of that on my flight.

I think you're referring to the Turndown Service that was launched as part of FIRST's enhancements at the same time was Club's relaunch.
next flights: BA1441 0566 0581 1446 EDI-LHR-MXP-LHR-EDI
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3363
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Fri May 11, 2007 8:06 pm

There are 18 B744 converted and 4 a month coming out of Cardiff. No B777 yet.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Fri May 11, 2007 9:11 pm

Quoting TCXDegsy (Reply 3):
I think you're referring to the Turndown Service that was launched as part of FIRST's enhancements at the same time was Club's relaunch.

Ah, my mistake.
 
bastew
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Fri May 11, 2007 9:17 pm

50% of the longhaul fleet (excl 767) should be refitted by end of June.

Passenger feedback is measured by the Global Performance Monitor (GPM's), which monitors 18 randomly selected passengers spread across all classes on every long haul flight. The figures from those on the new seats are consistently higher in every category including space available, privacy, comfort and stowage. The April figures are also 22% higher in the 'I would definitely fly BA again' statement versus the old Club seat.

There have been some issues with the new seat. These include the flimsy-ness of the footstools, the fact that (as mentioned above) the entire seat unit can 'wobble' in turbulence and also an issue with some IFE screens not staying rigid when deployed. Each of these issues have been resolved and as each new aircraft is fitted it will be fitted with enhancements to avoid these issues. Unfortunately in you flew on one of the first aircraft to be re-itted you may still encounter some of the above complains until these aircraft go back to the hanger. But with a fleet of over 100 747's/777's you are more likely to not be on one of the first ones re-fitted.

The only disappointment so far with the new cabin has been the 'Club kitchen'. Customer ratings on the GPM's are not really different to when it was 'raid the larder' so the product and service department are looking at how this can be enhanced.

And yes, the 'turndown' service is only offered in First Class (on night flights and daylight flights over 8.5hr). Obviously BA needs to 'up the game' in FIRST as the difference between F & J is narrowing and it does not want First passengers downgrading. Until the new First Cabin is unveiled 'soft' enhancements have been made to he cabin such as the turndown service, improved menus etc.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Fri May 11, 2007 9:26 pm

Quoting BAStew (Reply 6):
The only disappointment so far with the new cabin has been the 'Club kitchen'.

Didn't see this on my flight. On the flight out they had 'raid the larder' (but why do they never have beer?) but didn't see anything on the return (in the new Club)

Nice to see that some issues are being addressed, in particular the wobble - but it's going to be hit and miss until they get it fixed.

I've just reached my 2K tier points for this year with BA. Think I might try the competition for the next six months or so.

Edited to add: BASTEW - thanks very much for your comments. I don't mean to be negative - but after all of the hype I'm actually disappointed - I prefer the old seats (particularly if I can get an aisle where the window pax isn't climbing over me).

[Edited 2007-05-11 14:34:57]
 
Brymon
Topic Author
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2000 2:46 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Fri May 11, 2007 9:35 pm

Thanks for all the info - I'm yet to try the new Club World. My next trip will be to DOH with the annoying stop in BAH en route, its a 744, so I guess a small chance of getting New Club as its a hi J config.
 
pilot21
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 8:28 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Fri May 11, 2007 9:49 pm

Hi

Got to test the new Club World seat on the Miami route last month, it seems that BA are sending the 1st Miami flight out with the new Club World, so got to experience it, and the crew on the Upper deck also were getting use to it.

I loved the seat, thought it was noticeably wider, the cushions softer and the new AVOD system was great. The screen divider is very good, although on both flights when I put it up, I felt a bit mean to the pax in the seat next to me as I shut them off. The crew did say that the seat wobble in turbulence was an issue, but no problems on my flight, and I preferred the new foot rest, although the Z shape they are advertising isn't that comfortable, I just put the seat into a half bed mode instead.

On the AVOD, both trips saw big issues with the AVOD system. On the way out the system was re-booted twice before it would work, and still a few pax in economy had issues with it. On the way back after several re-sets, the crew managed to get the old continuous loop system working, but def. something to fix as the system is rolled out.

On the Club kitchen, not a good location or set-up, and apparently the WT+ pax keep taking the snacks as they come back into the galley, and the pax on the upper deck have to come downstairs to get at the 'Kitchen' which doesn't really work either.

So ratings:
Seat 9/10
AVOD: 7/10 - Only docked marks because of tech issues, when it works it is good
Cabin Appearance: 8/10 - Looks very fresh
Club Kitchen: 4/10 - Points raised above

Overall a good upgrade on a very good product, but just needs a few changes to get it spot on.
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
jonnywishbone
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:30 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sat May 12, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 9):
apparently the WT+ pax keep taking the snacks as they come back into the galley

I find it unbelievable that researchers and product testers never thought that this would happen... Never mind the obvious frustration from those of us that have paid top dollar to find that that WT+ passengers will be sneaking off first to get through US customs quicker!!! All of this for a couple of extra seats! I know the cabin crew (presume you are one BAStew) thought this was ludicrous!

As I said, common sense seems to be an oddity in the aviation industry!
 
BCALBOY
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:25 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sat May 12, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting Brymon (Reply 8):
Thanks for all the info - I'm yet to try the new Club World. My next trip will be to DOH with the annoying stop in BAH en route, its a 744, so I guess a small chance of getting New Club as its a hi J config.

BAH/DOH is a 777 route.
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1408
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sat May 12, 2007 4:41 am

Any chance someone can direct me to a seating plan for the new configuration? By the way, is there a low density/high density B744 configuration with the New Club World?

Tim.
 
mutu
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:04 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sat May 12, 2007 5:10 am

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 12):
Any chance someone can direct me to a seating plan for the new configuration? By the way, is there a low density/high density B744 configuration with the New Club World?

The seating footprint hasnt changed on High J so the seatmaps on expertflyer or elsewhere remain valid.

The old Low J config for 747 will become a Mid J configuration with (IIRC) an increase to 54 seats. There is no overall seat plan yet available unless you can identify an actual Mid J frame and its route schedule, then visit expertflyer so not very helpful just yet
 
mutu
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:04 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sat May 12, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting JonnyWishbone (Reply 10):
find it unbelievable that researchers and product testers never thought that this would happen... Never mind the obvious frustration from those of us that have paid top dollar to find that that WT+ passengers will be sneaking off first to get through US customs quicker!!! All of this for a couple of extra seats! I know the cabin crew (presume you are one BAStew) thought this was ludicrous!

Whilst i agree that where this happens it may be a bit of an irritation you should bear in mind that the FWJY layout ONLY applies to the low J conversion to Mid J 747 fleet, NOT to High J 747 or 777. So frankly a minority of the fleet
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sat May 12, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting JonnyWishbone (Reply 10):
I find it unbelievable that researchers and product testers never thought that this would happen... Never mind the obvious frustration from those of us that have paid top dollar to find that that WT+ passengers will be sneaking off first to get through US customs quicker!!! All of this for a couple of extra seats! I know the cabin crew (presume you are one BAStew) thought this was ludicrous!

Actually, those that pay top prices (ie First) currently get off after those in Club World and WTP using the current low J config, so the mid J is nothing different. While it is not an ideal config, it is addressing the need for more Club World seats and adds another 14 Club seats to each current low J 747, which are needed.
 
BA777ER236
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:18 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sat May 12, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 11):
BAH/DOH is a 777 route.

Since the start of the summer schedule, it has been a 744.

Cheers
 Smile
Flying would be easy if it wasn't for the ground
 
bastew
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sat May 12, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 15):
Quoting JonnyWishbone (Reply 10):
I find it unbelievable that researchers and product testers never thought that this would happen... Never mind the obvious frustration from those of us that have paid top dollar to find that that WT+ passengers will be sneaking off first to get through US customs quicker!!! All of this for a couple of extra seats! I know the cabin crew (presume you are one BAStew) thought this was ludicrous!

Actually, those that pay top prices (ie First) currently get off after those in Club World and WTP using the current low J config, so the mid J is nothing different. While it is not an ideal config, it is addressing the need for more Club World seats and adds another 14 Club seats to each current low J 747, which are needed.

The issue of WTP pax availing themselves of Club Kitchen items was raised time and time again by the crew.

The company response (which does make some sense) is 1) It will only affect the current 'Lo J' aircraft which are in the minority. And, 2) it exisits already with the Lo J as WTP and Club currently share a galley.

We are obviously cabin 'crew' not cabin police. Personally, if I was in that galley and a WTP passenger knicked a little piece of chocolate or a pack of crisps from the Club Kitchen I wouldn't snatch it back off of them, but I would politely let them know that it is for Club customers. On the other hand, if a WTP passenger came along and asked me to heat them up one of the dine anytime meals from the Club kitchen I would certainly decline.

As for WTP passengers getting on before FIRST and Club......this will be an issue. BA's new policy is to dis-embark at door 1 left where facilities provide for that. This way, at least FIRST passengers will dis-embark first. But Club will dis-embark behind WTP. It is a shame there isn't some sort of 'fast track' system available in the US for premium pax.
 
WJ
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:14 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sat May 12, 2007 3:30 pm

Can someone correct me if I am wrong here, but I simply dont get this ultra expensive, tens of millions of pounds spent in revamping what still was the best business seat across the atlantic. If they are worried about all of the start-ups taking away business, ask any frequent passenger, they didn't need new seats, all they needed was to learn how to smile.
146,727,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,764,772,300,310,319,320,321,330,343,DC9,D10,MD11,M80,E17
 
AlanUK
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:56 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sat May 12, 2007 4:37 pm

Quoting WJ (Reply 18):
If they are worried about all of the start-ups taking away business, ask any frequent passenger, they didn't need new seats, all they needed was to learn how to smile.

Who is "they" in your post WJ?
 
bastew
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sat May 12, 2007 7:54 pm

Quoting WJ (Reply 18):
Can someone correct me if I am wrong here, but I simply dont get this ultra expensive, tens of millions of pounds spent in revamping what still was the best business seat across the atlantic. If they are worried about all of the start-ups taking away business, ask any frequent passenger, they didn't need new seats, all they needed was to learn how to smile.

BA was the first airline to install a fully flat seat in business class, that was 6 years ago. SInce then, other airlines have rolled out theirs.....longer, wider etc etc.

Club World is the most profitable cabin for British Airways, WTP second, FIRST third and WT at the bottom. So obviously BA will continue to invest in its most profitable area first.

Although inititally setting the benchmark of J class seats, there were areas BA were being overtaken on. Passengers were not happy with the width of the existing seat which is quite narrow compared to the competition. Other areas highlighted were privacy and stowage. Passengers wanted more of both. And of course, AVOD which has now become pretty much the norm.

The new seat is 25% wider and is significantly more 'cocooned' than the existing seat.

FIRST is due to be upgraded next with a complete new cabin. This will start within the next 18 months. Both FIRST and Club World will also benefit from a new lounge concept when T5 opens. 'Terraces' will be gone, and in its place something akin to 'the pier' in HKG.

I also wouldn't be suprised that given the (unforseen) popularity and profitability of WT+ that there will be some sort of enhancement there, as VS has just raised teh game in their Premium Economy.
 
shankly
Posts: 1197
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sun May 13, 2007 5:25 am

Flew 744 G-BNLZ on 3rd May on the morning LHR-MIA flight (seat 64A on upper deck) and it was fitted with the new Club World

The seat, screen and table are much simpler than the old version and the sides drop when the bed goes flat which overcomes the old seats main shortcoming of being difficult to sleep in on ones side. Liked the big touch screen; shame all the films were crap

Came back on 'LG which still had the old ones
L1011 - P F M
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1408
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sun May 13, 2007 6:24 am

Not a subscriber to expertflyer, so an alternative source would be appreciated.
 
vv701
Posts: 5773
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sun May 13, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 4):
There are 18 B744 converted and 4 a month coming out of Cardiff. No B777 yet.

With 3 or 4 conversions a month this is obviously a moving target. BA issued a press release on 17 April announcing that they planned all future rotations to JFK by 744 (but not 772 or 763) to be on converted aircraft. They said that 17 aircraft had, at that time been converted.

Since then I have been trying to monitor 744s returning to LHR from BA Engineering at CWL (where the conversions are carried out) and aircraft in service on the LHR-JFK route. The problem is that aircraft visit CWL for routine maintenance as well as conversion and I have no way of telling which is which. So corrections to the data below will be welcome.

However G-BYGB was ferried ex-CWL on 20 April, operated BA179 to JFK that day and has since flown to JFK a further four times. So it was almost certainly the eighteenth conversion. G-BYGD was ferried into LHR from CWL on 25 April and was put back into service the following day as BA117 to JFK. It has since operated on this route six more times. So it is almost certainly the nineteenth conversion. G-CIVL that I think was a 'Lo J' configured aircraft returned to LHR on 26 April having been out of service since 1 April. It returned to service as BA209 (LHR-MIA) on 27 April and, following G-BNLU, was probably the second 'Mid J' aircraft to go into service and the twentieth conversion. G-CIVY was ferried to CWL on 26 April and was back in service operating BA177 to JFK on 8 May so may be the twenty-first conversion.

There are 13 aircraft that have been to CWL and have operated at least eight times to JFK since 17 April are:
G-BYGE, 'GF and 'GG and G-CIVF, 'VG, 'VH, 'VI, 'VR, 'VS, 'VV, 'VW, 'VX and 'VZ.

Similarly there are four other aircraft that have also been to CWL and have operated at least three times to JFK since 17 April:
G-BNLK and 'LP, G-BYGA, and 'GC.

Those that have been counting will have noted that I think there are 21 conversions but list 22 possibly converted aircraft! Perhaps G-CIVL was not converted?
 
flyua
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 9:23 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sun May 13, 2007 1:00 pm

BAStew: I applaud your attention to detail in your posts. You are a most informative poster! I am quite sure you are an excellent cabin attendant, as well. You are an excellent representative of British Airways.
 
hotelmode
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:31 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sun May 13, 2007 6:17 pm

I was going to post the BA info on what aircraft are AVOD fitted but it appears they have stopped putting this info into the system, as several low J aircraft are now in the 337 seat config but do not say AVOD, which isnt possible. This is the info as it is on system but i think recent conversions may be missed.

Current Situation as follows.

Hi J - 17 aircraft converted. NLK,NLN,NLT,IVF,IVG,IVH,IVI,IVR,IVS,IVV,IVW,IVX,IVZ,YGA,YGE,YGF,YGG
9 not yet converted NLE,NLO,NLP,IVO,IVM,IVY,YGB,YGC,YGD

Low J 3 aircraft converted NLI,NLU,NLZ

A/C at CWL NLA,NLB,NLJ all Low J
 
tcxdegsy
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:47 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sun May 13, 2007 7:38 pm

Has anyone any idea when it's expected the 777's will start being refitted?

I fly out to EWR on a 777 in November, and return on a 747 from JFK a week later. So I know I'll get at least one shot at the new cabin!
next flights: BA1441 0566 0581 1446 EDI-LHR-MXP-LHR-EDI
 
hotelmode
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:31 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sun May 13, 2007 8:08 pm

You'll be extremely lucky to get a refitted 777 in Nov, but they will have started.
 
vv701
Posts: 5773
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sun May 13, 2007 8:38 pm

Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 25):
I was going to post the BA info on what aircraft are AVOD fitted but it appears they have stopped putting this info into the system, as several low J aircraft are now in the 337 seat config but do not say AVOD, which isnt possible. This is the info as it is on system but i think recent conversions may be missed.

Current Situation as follows.

Hi J - 17 aircraft converted. NLK,NLN,NLT,IVF,IVG,IVH,IVI,IVR,IVS,IVV,IVW,IVX,IVZ,YGA,YGE,YGF,YGG
9 not yet converted NLE,NLO,NLP,IVO,IVM,IVY,YGB,YGC,YGD

Low J 3 aircraft converted NLI,NLU,NLZ

A/C at CWL NLA,NLB,NLJ all Low J

Many thanks for this information. Looks as if the last conversion on the formal list is CIVZ that went back into service on 10 April. If Ba does update the AVOD list perhaps you could update us in another month or so? Either way many thanks.
 
LHR27C
Posts: 846
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:49 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sun May 13, 2007 8:48 pm

This thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=633240 on Flyertalk might help. Gives stats for April, presumably will be updated for May at the end of the month, but gives a good idea of which flight numbers NCW is operating on (and which aircraft) and with what probability.
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned forever skyward
 
vv701
Posts: 5773
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Sun May 13, 2007 8:50 pm

Hello again. Sorry but I have only just noticed that

Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 25):
Hi J - 17 aircraft converted.

jibes exactly with the BA Press Release of 17 April that said:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 23):
that 17 aircraft had, at that time been converted

I had interpreted the BA announced 17 as being total conversions but it looks as if it meant 17 'Hi J' aircraft that could be used on the JFK route.

This dates the BA list at that time (17 April) and I think we can confidently add BYGB and 'GD to it as they returned to service on the JFK route on 21 and 25 April.
 
jonnywishbone
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:30 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Mon May 14, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 27):
You'll be extremely lucky to get a refitted 777 in Nov, but they will have started

Doh  banghead  I've just booked the 777 service to JFK in mid November... As this is JFK, do you think that this service will be one of the first 777 refits??? Bloody well hope so!
 
vv701
Posts: 5773
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA New Club World Re-fit

Wed May 16, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 30):
This dates the BA list at that time (17 April) and I think we can confidently add BYGB and 'GD to it as they returned to service on the JFK route on 21 and 25 April.

And also BYGC. It was at CWL from 4 to 15 April and had flown 6 LHR-JFK-LHR rotations by 29 April.

Now the focus seems to be on the conversion of 'Lo J' (38 Club World seats) to 'Mid J' (52 Club World seats). While the 'Hi J' conversions were typically being completed while the aircraft was out of service for around 10 days the 'Lo' to 'Mid J' conversions are taking longer. The first aircraft converted (BNLU) was out of service for 37 days. The next (BNLZ) spent 29 days atr CWL. The third (BNLI) was out of service for 34 days (including the Easter week-end). So although it would be reasonable to expect these times to come down, this revised focus will slow the conversion programme somewhat.

These 'Lo J' to 'Mid J' conversions are important to BA as they will increase their Club World passenger capacity by 8 per cent. While the number of premium passenger seats are going up there will a not insignificant drop in the the total available long haul passenger seats at least until the four 772s on order start entering service. Coupled with the fact that this interim order was for 772s (and not 773s as many expected) suggests to me that although BA may order a handful of 380s for specific routes they will be no where near being the world's largest operator of this type (as they are of the 744) or Europe's largest operator (as they will be of the 777 once the current orders are fulfilled).

Quoting JonnyWishbone (Reply 31):
I've just booked the 777 service to JFK in mid November... As this is JFK, do you think that this service will be one of the first 777 refits???

Well . . . I guess - not getting your hopes too high - that since BA could try to run a 2nd generation lie flat J class seat on all flights to JFK with just one 772 converted and should be able to announce that they plan to offer the new seat on all JFK flights with only 2 772s converted your chances are better than most. Good luck!