cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

Air France CDG Terminal Plans

Fri May 11, 2007 7:54 pm

This one's been bugging me for a while. Seems that every time I fly through CDG (about once every 12-18 months), my flight is swapped to some new terminal.

I recall back before the days of 2E, most of the flights from the US landed and departed from 2C. My last flights in and out of CDG on AF (CDG-IAH and back) left from 2E (and by 2E, I mean I took a bus from 2E out to the parking lot of AF jets), and arrived in 2F.

I thought that 2E was supposed to be AF's new terminal for long hauls, with 2F being more specifically for EU destinations. I understand that 2E is still under re-construction and thus is not operating anywhere near full capacity. Also, a domestic flight I took (LYS-CDG) was supposed to go to 2F, but wound up going to 2D, which I thought AF had left to other airlines.

Upon further research, it seems that AF still operates from about every sub-terminal in CDG2.

So, what my question boils down to is, what is the overall plan for allocating AF flights to CDG2 terminals? And second, why doesn't CO as a Skyteam partner fly into 2E or 2F like DL does, but instead is serving 2A with mainly non-skyteam airlines?
 
jouy31
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 4:59 pm

RE: Air France CDG Terminal Plans

Fri May 11, 2007 9:40 pm

Well, you should keep in mind that AF has been working without 2E since 2004, and that 2E was supposed to reach its full capacity in ... 2006. Even with the temporary boarding area alongside 2E, the remote Satellite (satellite H) and additional boarding gates in 2D, AF is straining with its under sized facilities.

Things should start to improve this year with the phased opening of S3, a new boarding area for 2F and 2E, which should start operations in June and be completed in November. Next year will see the re-opening of the central part of 2E's boarding area and the opening of 2G, a terminal for regional aircrafts, initially only for Schengen flights. S3 can accomodate both Schengen medium-haul flights and long-haul flights. At the end of 2008, 2F2, the non-Schengen pier of 2F, should switch from non-Schengen to Schengen flights.

S4, another boarding area parallel to S3, dedicated to long-haul flights, has been moved forward from 2014 to 2012 by ADP. AF is pressing ADP to move the opening date forward again.

Both S3 and S4 will be linked to 2E by an airside VAL line. Hopefully, there could also be a landside VAL line connecting 2G to the rest of CDG2, but not before the opening of S4

Ultimately, AF's hub, with its SkyTeam partners, should revolve around the TGV station, 2E, 2F, S3, S4 and 2G

Overall AF plan :

http://www.airfrance.net/double6/pas...b)/fr-PHOTO-flash_hub?OpenDocument

An earlier thread CDG 2E Progress? (by Den346 Feb 17 2007 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2007-05-11 14:55:25]
 
mindscape
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:28 pm

RE: Air France CDG Terminal Plans

Sat May 12, 2007 4:34 am

Quoting Jouy31 (Reply 1):
Things should start to improve this year with the phased opening of S3, a new boarding area for 2F and 2E, which should start operations in June and be completed in November.

Interesting, and the link is quite explicite. However, if i understand well, Checking counters for S3 and S4 will be located in bothe terminal 2F and 2E... Is there enough checking capacity in both terminal to handle a sudden increase in boarding gates (2E+2F+S3+S4) ! I hope anyhow that after checking at 2E or 2F, to access to S3 and S4 (which is farther) would be easy and hassle free...

Quoting Cba (Thread starter):
why doesn't CO as a Skyteam partner fly into 2E or 2F

I am wondering the same question... NW and DL are departing from 2E currently, why not CO ? They don't have a dedicated lounge at 2A like AA or AC, so why not the move ?
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Air France CDG Terminal Plans

Sat May 12, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting Jouy31 (Reply 1):
Both S3 and S4 will be linked to 2E by an airside VAL line. Hopefully, there could also be a landside VAL line connecting 2G to the rest of CDG2, but not before the opening of S4

Will there be a connection between S3 and S4 and 2F (besides a bus)?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: Air France CDG Terminal Plans

Sat May 12, 2007 5:21 am

Jouy31, thanks for the link, it was very informative! Also forced me to brush up on the française!

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Will there be a connection between S3 and S4 and 2F (besides a bus)?

I sure hope so. As much as I love CDG, getting between the different terminals can be a tremendous hassle, especially if you have a tight connection to make. They need to implement some sort of system like the once in place in ATL where once you go through security, you're clear for the entire flight. When flying LYS-CDG-IAH, I arrived in 2D and the only way to get to 2E was to get outside of the secure area and thus wait in security again, which caused me to almost miss my flight! The boarding door was literally closing as I ran up.
 
jouy31
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 4:59 pm

RE: Air France CDG Terminal Plans

Sat May 12, 2007 4:22 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Will there be a connection between S3 and S4 and 2F (besides a bus)?

2F will be linked to S3 by a moving walkway, as the distance is below 600m. On the other hand, as the distance between the central part of 2E and S3 is above 600m, an airside VAL line called LISA will link 2E to S3, and will be extended eastward to S4 when it opens. So, when going from 2F to S4, you may have to use the moving walkways to reach S3 and then the VAL to S4. On the other hand, there were initial plans of a VAL line going from the TGV station to 2F, S3 and S4. But this project remains unconfirmed, at this stage.

Quoting Mindscape (Reply 2):
Quoting Cba (Thread starter):
why doesn't CO as a Skyteam partner fly into 2E or 2F

I am wondering the same question... NW and DL are departing from 2E currently, why not CO ? They don't have a dedicated lounge at 2A like AA or AC, so why not the move ?

Currently, there are SkyTeam and AF long-haul flights in 2A, 2C, 2E and 2F2. There was a move last year to at least consolidate NW and DL in 2E, But further consolidation apparently requires at least the opening of S3.

Quoting Cba (Reply 4):
They need to implement some sort of system like the once in place in ATL where once you go through security, you're clear for the entire flight

The policy of French authorities in CDG is that you need to screen every passenger, whether he is transferring from another flight or not.

Quoting Mindscape (Reply 2):
s there enough checking capacity in both terminal to handle a sudden increase in boarding gates (2E+2F+S3+S4)

2E opened with 52 check-in counters. This is a third of the planned 156 check-in counters that should have been available in 2006, if there had not been the partial roof collapse. This should be enough for S3. I don't know regarding S4.
 
goldorak
Posts: 1362
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: Air France CDG Terminal Plans

Sat May 12, 2007 7:59 pm

Quoting Mindscape (Reply 2):
I am wondering the same question... NW and DL are departing from 2E currently, why not CO ? They don't have a dedicated lounge at 2A like AA or AC, so why not the move ?

CO is using AF lounge at T2A (it's the ex-Concorde lounge)

Quoting Cba (Thread starter):
Upon further research, it seems that AF still operates from about every sub-terminal in CDG2.

Yes, AF is currently still using all "concourses" of CDG2. They will leave first 2A & 2B when the new facilities will open
 
jouy31
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 4:59 pm

RE: Air France CDG Terminal Plans

Sun May 13, 2007 5:26 am

The following presentations show how much delays by ADP and the 2E partial roof collapse have adversely impacted AF operations at CDG.

Forecasts in 2002
http://www.jouy31.net/airliners/cdg_2002_forecast.pdf (pdf file)

You can see the landside VAL line in green and also that 2G used to be S3N and was located further to the North

Forecasts in 2004
http://www.jouy31.net/airliners/cdg_2004_forecast.exe (Flash animation)

[Edited 2007-05-12 22:38:43]

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