LAXDESI
Topic Author
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Sat May 12, 2007 7:17 am

Hankering for young look, IA offers attractive early retirement package of $30,000 to $60,000 to cabin crew. I think they will easily save more than that in reduced fuel costs from employing lighter cabin crew.  Big grin
http://www.business-standard.com/com...t=1&chklogin=N&autono=284007&tab=r

Quotes:
The Indian Airlines board today cleared an attractive voluntary retirement scheme (VRS) for its 500-odd cabin crew. Under the scheme, cabin crew between the age of 41 and 58 will get Rs 13 lakh to Rs 25 lakh compensation depending on the number of years left in service.

The airline has also attached a clause to this scheme saying that cabin crews can switch over to other jobs within the airline by taking less compensation. The compensation will be in addition to the existing post-retirement benefits. Further, cabin crew who are below the age of 50 years can opt for ground duties at the discretion of the company. Such cabin crew will receive the benefit of an additional monthly compensatory allowance ranging from Rs.15,000 to Rs 50,000 per month within specified limits.

The government-controlled airline, which will soon merge with Air-India, has also amended its recruitment conditions so as to appoint cabin crew with qualification of 10+2 and experience. Traditionally, Indian Airlines was recruiting graduates as cabin crew. This move is aimed at targeting professional and young cabin crew of other airlines and to reduce the average age of the cabin crew.

At present, Indian Airlines has crew members between 40 and 58 years at various slabs out of its total strength of 1,300. The average salary drawn by Indian Airlines cabin crew is between Rs 40,000 and Rs 50,000 a month.

He added, “Moreover, we are planning to recruit over 100 young and professional cabin crew in the next three to six months. We are targeting cabin crew of other airlines who are having dynamism and new energy to excel.”

[Edited 2007-05-12 00:19:06]
 
cricket
Posts: 2074
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Sat May 12, 2007 11:18 pm

James McNerney's interview to Business Today where he says that Boeing will be doing a lot more work out of India

http://vnu.fp.factiva.com/viewarticle.asp?AN=BTDY000020070423e35600001
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Sun May 13, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting LAXDESI (Thread starter):
At present, Indian Airlines has crew members between 40 and 58 years at various slabs out of its total strength of 1,300. The average salary drawn by Indian Airlines cabin crew is between Rs 40,000 and Rs 50,000 a month

Shouldn't the retirement age of F/As be 40.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
planeboy
Posts: 752
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 2:56 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Sun May 13, 2007 1:06 pm

What is going on at Royal Nepalese Airlines? Heard its no more "Royal"... after recent political developments.

Can anybody confirm whether RNAC is still flying to BLR? It used to fly two times a week with a 757.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Sun May 13, 2007 1:18 pm

Its not sporting the "Royal" anymore.

Quoting Planeboy (Reply 3):
Can anybody confirm whether RNAC is still flying to BLR? It used to fly two times a week with a 757.

Last heard it was operating Twice a week to DEL,Even the Weekly BOM had stopped.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Nimish
Posts: 2891
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Sun May 13, 2007 4:14 pm

Quoting Planeboy (Reply 3):
Can anybody confirm whether RNAC is still flying to BLR? It used to fly two times a week with a 757.

I think they stopped that service a couple of years ago.
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Sun May 13, 2007 5:51 pm

I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
cricket
Posts: 2074
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Sun May 13, 2007 7:19 pm

The DEL-KTM route has never been the same since IC814, I believe after 9W and S2 started operating the flight there was some rebound, but recent political events in Nepal have seen a drop-off in passenger numbers for them as well.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Sun May 13, 2007 8:39 pm

So what´s the current mood in India for private airports, saw that 2 airports in India have been partly privately funded,
new Hyderabad airport being one, http://www.newhyderabadairport.com/airport/aviation.html
I find it strange that Pondicherry don´t have an one, would anyone be interested in funding it privately and could it be profitable?

[Edited 2007-05-13 13:55:25]
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Sun May 13, 2007 11:12 pm

Any idea where all Air India Cargo A310 is flying? is it in their new scheme.
 
Nimish
Posts: 2891
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Sun May 13, 2007 11:14 pm

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 8):
I find it strange that Pondicherry don´t have an one, would anyone be interested in funding it privately and could it be profitable?

Doesn't Pondicherry already have an airport (some airline was planning to launch flights from there)? Why would they need another private one when they're not using the existing one?
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
cricket
Posts: 2074
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Sun May 13, 2007 11:51 pm

OK, a couple of pictures from my last trip. In the first one you can see one of the oldest civilian commercial jets in India and one of the newest in the same frame (in the background you'll see one of 9W's new liveried brand spanking new A330's)

The second image is the massive wing of the Airbus A380 which I flew again BOM-BOM

I am uploading my video of teh A380 landing so you should have it online soon. The N93i is a surprisingly good shooter!

OK, some people have asked me for the earlier shots I took on teh A380 when I flew in HKG, those are here...

KongHong
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
cricket
Posts: 2074
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Mon May 14, 2007 12:27 am

This is the video I took, for which I started a new thread A380 Wing In Action (by Cricket May 13 2007 in Civil Aviation)
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Mon May 14, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting Nimish (Reply 10):
Doesn't Pondicherry already have an airport (some airline was planning to launch flights from there)? Why would they need another private one when they're not using the existing one?

Only helicopter if I recall right, nothing on www.wikipedia.org
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Mon May 14, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 2):
Quoting LAXDESI (Thread starter):
At present, Indian Airlines has crew members between 40 and 58 years at various slabs out of its total strength of 1,300. The average salary drawn by Indian Airlines cabin crew is between Rs 40,000 and Rs 50,000 a month

Shouldn't the retirement age of F/As be 40.
regds
MEL

Why?

If that were the case, shouldn't everyone retire at 40?

Cabin crew like everyone else should be assessed like anyone else. If they can do their jobs well, and present a pleasing and hospitable face to customers, they should be able to work until they are 65.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4050
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Mon May 14, 2007 9:12 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 14):
Why?

If that were the case, shouldn't everyone retire at 40?

Cabin crew like everyone else should be assessed like anyone else. If they can do their jobs well, and present a pleasing and hospitable face to customers, they should be able to work until they are 65.



Quoting Jaysit (Reply 14):
If they can do their jobs well,

= Doing a job well could be constructed in a fashion that could auto default to maximum age requirements.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Mon May 14, 2007 10:02 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 14):
Why?

If that were the case, shouldn't everyone retire at 40?

Cabin crew like everyone else should be assessed like anyone else. If they can do their jobs well, and present a pleasing and hospitable face to customers, they should be able to work until they are 65.

Considering this field needs glamour & fitness.And 40+ its not always possible to mantain former.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
pnqiad
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:05 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Mon May 14, 2007 11:56 pm

Jet, Lufthansa in cargo airline talks

Quote:
Private airline Jet Airways is in talks with Lufthansa Group to float a wholly owned subsidiary for dedicated cargo operations.

Confirming the development, Jet Airways' chairman Naresh Goyal said, "We will be launching a dedicated cargo airline services by the end of 2007. We are seeking the help of Lufthansa to float the freighter service. We are planning to increase our cargo revenues to 10 per cent in the current financial year from 6 per cent. We have already appointed a senior representative from the American Airlines to supervise cargo operations."

Jet is also holding talks with Lufthansa for a possible tie-up for setting up an aircraft maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) facility in India.
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 12:06 am

Quoting PNQIAD (Reply 17):
onfirming the development, Jet Airways' chairman Naresh Goyal said, "We will be launching a dedicated cargo airline services by the end of 2007.

Nice and interesting development--any idea about the aircrafts they will use i am guessing 737CFs any WBs?? maybe an additional order for 332Fs

Karan
 
planeboy
Posts: 752
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 2:56 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 1:05 am

Jet wants to become one among top 5 airliners of the world

NG seems to get everything right. Right product, right timing, right 'connections', right vision and right set of people....

Jet now eyes world’s top five slot

Monday, May 14, 2007

Mumbai: India alone is small cheese for Jet Airways. It now wants to become one of the top five international airlines in the next five years. By then Jet hopes to have total revenues of $3.5 to $4 billion (Rs 14,350 crore to Rs 16,100 crore), with half its operations being overseas.

Jet Airways chairman Naresh Goyal announced this road map on Sunday while celebrating the 14th anniversary of his airline as well as the induction of wide-bodied aircraft-- a Boeing 777-300 ER and an Airbus 330-200 - into his fleet.

“When we began our journey in 1993, the mission we had set ourselves was to become India’s first choice domestic carrier. We have largely fulfilled the mission," Goyal said at a gathering of corporate bigwigs and Bollywood personalities at the Mumbai airport. (In fact Jet Airways and Indian Airlines remain neck to neck.)

"I strongly believe that Indians can create and run an airline, which competes with the best in the world such as Singapore Airlines, British Airways, Cathay and Emirates,” Goyal added.

On the acquisition of Air Sahara, Goyal confirmed that the new name for the airline, Jetlite had been cleared. " Air Sahara will be launched as JetLite within two months. Currently, we are doing the route rationalization,” Goyal said.

He said $50 million would be injected into the airline for its revival. Since all of Air Sahara’s aircraft are on lease, Jet would acquire new aircraft to enhance its fleet. Earlier Air Sahara had ordered 10 Boeing 737 aircraft, which it could not buy due to its resource crunch. “We will exercise that right and acquire all the 10 aircraft. JetLite will have all economy class configuration and services will match Jet Airways’ standards,” Goyal added.

Contrary to common perceptions JetLite will not be in between full service carriers and low cost carriers. Its tickets will be priced in such a manner that the airline would not lose money. “We always work to maximise profits and we would like to do the same thing with JetLite,” he added.

He added, “Our objective is to become one of the best five airlines in the world and be the first choice airline on all the routes that we fly into and out of India in the next five years. We will also complement the new merged Air India.”

To achieve this Jet is in the process of acquiring 20 wide-bodied aircraft from Boeing and Airbus. While two have already arrived, the rest will be inducted soon. To fund this aircraft acquisition, Jet would be raising $400 million through a rights issue and the money will be raised in less than four months of getting board approval.

It has also made Brussels its European hub and will provide seamless connectivity to several European countries as well as from five Indian cities to different locations in the US and Canada. The prime minister of Belgium who is keen on developing the Brussels airport at par with other European hubs has pledged his support in providing Jet Airways the necessary assistance to achieve its dreams.

The Belgium government have offered Jet Airways to run a flying and engineer’s training academy in association with a local partner to create trained manpower for Jet’s own requirement as well as for other international carriers. “We will train 150 to 200 pilots at an already existing academy at Brussels and have identified a reputed trainer. It should be operational in 90 days,” Goyal said.

Apart from expanding its network in the US and Europe, Jet will aggressively set up base in Shanghai, Hong Kong and South Africa. By next year it will fly to the Gulf.

Jet has also chalked out a plan to start full- fledged cargo operation and the all cargo airline will be launched before 2007.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 18):
any idea about the aircrafts they will use

Makes sense to go for the B737-700C,until the B737-900F is produced.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2387
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Considering this field needs glamour & fitness.And 40+ its not always possible to mantain former.
regds
MEL

 checkmark 

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 14):
Why?

If that were the case, shouldn't everyone retire at 40?

Cabin crew like everyone else should be assessed like anyone else. If they can do their jobs well, and present a pleasing and hospitable face to customers, they should be able to work until they are 65.

Sounds reasonable, in the larger context....however, we have a lot of members on this forum who keep referring to the F/A's of AI and IC as 'Uncles' and 'Aunties' and how they are overweight and look old, etc....now that IC is doing something to correct that, isn't it the right step for them....?
 
LAXDESI
Topic Author
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 10:56 am

Jet charts growth path for Jet Lite.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/B...r_Jet_Lite/articleshow/2046045.cms

Quotes:
Jet Airways is busy crafting a unique strategy for its proposed budget carrier, Jet Lite, that is expected to be launched in a couple of months. Jet Lite will not conform to the conventional operating strategies of low cost, no-frill carriers like Air Deccan, Spice Jet and Go Air, as it will be positioned as a value-based airline. Also, Jet Lite will serve complimentary food and beverage on board.

"There will be no tickets up for grabs at throw away prices. Such strategies are causing the aviation industry to bleed," said a company source. Last year the Indian aviation sector incurred overall losses of Rs 2,500 crore due to a combination of factors such as soaring aviation turbine fuel (ATF) prices, price wars in the low cost carrier (LCC) segment and lack of infrastructure.

Speaking to TOI on cannibalisation effect Garry Kingshott, chief commercial officer of the airline said, "We will continue to fly on all major routes connecting the metros while Jet Lite would operate on the same routes only to complement Jet Airways. Besides, Jet Lite will take on the market where the demand for business class and a full service carrier is not required, which is the tier II and tier III cities."

Also, Jet Airways and Jet Lite would sign a ‘re-protection' agreement where passengers — who got a delayed flight, want to cancel a ticket or want to catch an earlier/later flight — can avail the services of both the airlines. With this, the passenger traffic would be shared in-house, without spilling on to competition.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 4:36 pm

Paramount looking for stake in other Airlines
Found this very surprising.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
ag92
Posts: 1045
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:23 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 4:57 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 23):

How is Paramount doing in India

Their business plan is quite confusing, is it a all business class airline or a premium economy product

Regards
Ag92
 
cricket
Posts: 2074
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 5:50 pm

Quoting Ag92 (Reply 24):
How is Paramount doing in India

Their business plan is quite confusing, is it a all business class airline or a premium economy product

Well, they're making money by all indications by sticking to clear policy of servicing routes down south with that they call 'business class' even though it has the same 4-abreast seating of the E-jets. But I believe that they will gradually expand their routes this year heading to the West and the North.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
15a
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:34 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 6:35 pm

Their business model is similar to Jet or Kingfisher in terms of being a full service carrier
What they call Business class is a Economy + product - almost an executive economy..they throw in lounge access, a full meal on short haul flights (eg Bangalore-Chennai or Coimbatore Bangalore) rather than the cold sandwich the others give u ..and carry more crew for better service (4 on a 72 seater)
Their first is a business class.
What works for them is that they have a fantastic network in the south - they have saturated intra south routes ex chennai and provided some interesting connections. So if ur going to trivandrum or cochin or madurai or vizag or coimbatore, u get a choice of 2-4 flights a day
good new aircraft, excellent service -though i have had a strange experience with them once when we were delayed over an hour with all on board because the rear door (or slide in this case) didnt close.all in all its a pretty good airline and seems to be doing well (all the flights that i have been on have been overr 70% full)
 
Nimish
Posts: 2891
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 8:10 pm

Staff crunch lands AI Express in major crisis

From: http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1096877

Quote:
Airline struggles to cope with the shortage of technical crew

After the technical snags of Air India, its low cost subsidiary, Air India Express, is suffering from a man power crunch. According to sources from the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA), Air India Express has been receiving step-motherly treatment by Air India. The aircraft-engineer ratio at Air India, as compared to Air India Express, has a vast difference.

Says a DGCA source, “The Air India Express delays that have taken place are due to the shortage of manpower especially among engineers and technicians.”

Interestingly the next-generation Boeing 737 aircrafts of the airlines were being maintained by rival companies, Jet Airways and Air Sahara, since Air India Express was short of engineers.

A source from the engineering team of Jet Airways said, “For one and a half years we did the line maintenance of Air India Express. This includes minor change of oils among other things. But, for the last seven months, they have been doing the maintenance work themselves.”

Captain P P Singh, chief operating officer, Air India Express, confirmed the shortage. “Engineers for the Boeing 737-800 aircrafts are not many in number. For sometime, the maintenance of our aircrafts was done by Jet Airways as well as by Air Sahara.”

Air India Express, which currently has 13 Boeing 737 aircrafts which would be increased to 17 by the end of the year, has 38 engineers and 40 other technicians. “To correct the shortage we are now recruiting some engineers with Basic Aircraft Maintenance Engineer’s Licence (BAMEL). Also, we are in the process of recruiting some Aircraft Maintenance Engineers (AME’s), who will be trained to work for the Boeing 737 aircrafts. We will get 80 more aircraft mechanics from the air force,” Singh added.
...

Wow! I did not know that AIX is outsourcing work to 9W & S2! That must be a unique situation  Smile
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
Nimish
Posts: 2891
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 8:15 pm

[ deleted duplicate post]

[Edited 2007-05-15 13:19:08]
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 8:16 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 27):
Wow! I did not know that AIX is outsourcing work to 9W & S2! That must be a unique situation

That is quite old news ,infact was announced when AIX launched operations.

Karan
 
Nimish
Posts: 2891
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 8:16 pm

Smaller airports see passenger traffic surge

From: http://www.business-standard.com/com...mnu2&subLeft=1&autono=284527&tab=r

Quote:
Spurred by cheap fares and rapid economic growth, the fastest growth in the number of air passengers is taking place in smaller cities like PNQ, Raipur, Coimbatore and AMD, to name a few.
Based on figures from state-owned carriers, these airports grew between 60 per cent and 82 per cent in calendar 2006 over the previous year.

In contrast, major airports like BOM and DEL grew by over 20 per cent and over 35 per cent, respectively, though, strictly, comparisons are not possible since the two operate on a far higher base of 22.25 million and 20.44 million passengers.

The growth in the number of air passengers in small cities reflects the growth of both manufacturing and service industries in small-town India, which, in turn, has spurred purchasing power.

It is also a result of moves by budget carriers to aggressively tap these markets by starting new services, helped by the government's airport upgrade program.

Said Union Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel, “The growth of Indian civil aviation has taken the benefits beyond ‘Mumbai-Delhi economy’ to non-metro cities and the main growth will come from cities like Pune, Ahmedabad and so on.”
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
pnqiad
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:05 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Tue May 15, 2007 11:22 pm

India threatens to ban Russian and Malaysian airlines

Quote:
The Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA)rnhas asked two Russian carriers and Malaysia Airlines why they shouldrnnot be barred from using the Indian airspace as the two countries werernnot allowing some Indian carriers in their airspace.

Anybody have anymore background info on this? Are Russians and Malaysians violating bi-laterals here?
 
Nimish
Posts: 2891
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting PNQIAD (Reply 31):
Anybody have anymore background info on this? Are Russians and Malaysians violating bi-laterals here?

There was a mention on this forum about 2 months ago that MH/Malaysia were the reason for S2 to disband their DEL-KUL-SIN-DEL service - they did not give S2 the permission. India had threatened to retaliate- can this be due to the MH/ S2 mess?
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
BigTom
Posts: 516
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:51 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 1:27 am

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=86529

India, Russia backtrack on airline ban

Quote:
India and Russia came dangerously close to a diplomatic stand-off after Moscow decided to ban Air India and Jet Airways from its airspace, prompting a counter from New Delhi--but the two made up at the last minute.
The episode could have put a blot on the traditionally friendly relations that the two countries share.

Before Moscow withdrew its decision to bar the two Indian carriers from using its airspace from June 15, the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) asked two Russian airlines--Aeroflot and Transco--not to operate to India from Tuesday night.

But both countries went back on their decisions late in the evening, official sources said, blaming the fiasco on ‘communication gap’.

The Indian aviation regulatory body has also written a similar letter to Malaysia Airlines asking it to explain why its operations to India should not be stopped. It has also sought to know the reasons for Malaysian authorities not allowing Air India Express and Air Sahara to operate to and from Kuala Lumpur.

Looks like DGCA getting tough made the Russians back down. Wonder what will be the fallout with Malaysia? MH has quite a few frequencies to India.
 
AI
Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 7:13 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 3:05 am

But why was Russia threatening to ban 2 airlines from India from its airspace ??
Was there any concern about safety / maintainance of these airlines ?

& what about malaysia ?

AI

[Edited 2007-05-15 20:09:56]
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting AI (Reply 34):
Was there any concern about safety / maintainance of these airlines

Very unlikely.

Tough Counter measures always works.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2387
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 4:45 am

Quoting AI (Reply 34):
But why was Russia threatening to ban 2 airlines from India from its airspace ??
Was there any concern about safety / maintainance of these airlines ?

None of the Indian carriers have been under question about safety / mx ..... it's obviously a political issue.....
 
vtnyc
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:24 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting AI (Reply 34):
But why was Russia threatening to ban 2 airlines from India from its airspace ??

Resolved.... storm in a tea cup...

Anet thread
First Flight, PA001 DEL-FRA-LHR-JFK; Dream- JFK-COK on a B6 787
 
vtnyc
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:24 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 7:01 am

Dark clouds over flights to Malaysia

NEW DELHI: In a move that could disrupt flights from India to Malaysia, the civil aviation authority has warned of a ban on Malaysia Airlines if domestic carriers Air India Express and Air Sahara were not allowed to land in Kuala Lumpur. The tiff with Malaysia remains unresolved and has the potential to hit flights of Air India and Jet Airways to Kuala Lumpur. DGCA has already served a show-cause notice on Malaysia Airlines, threatening to stop its flights to India.

This dispute follows Kuala Lumpur’s refusal to allow Air India Express and Air Sahara to operate flights to Malaysia. New Delhi had nominated these carriers to utilise part of the bilateral rights available to it. Air India Express’ parent company Air India and Jet Airways already operate flights to Kuala Lumpur. A number of Indian tourists fly to Malaysia during the summer; holiday packages that combine visits to Malaysia, Singapore and Bangkok too are popular. A section of the traffic to the US also flows through the Kuala Lumpur hub.
First Flight, PA001 DEL-FRA-LHR-JFK; Dream- JFK-COK on a B6 787
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 1:17 pm

What was the Reason for the Malaysian Authorities action.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Mohan
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:03 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 2:29 pm

Well my assesment is that the Russians want to increase frequency into Amritsar and wanted to have Bilateral discussions to enhance the same, Indians were not very keen to re negotiate so soon. In frustation they barred Air India and Jet to overfly enroute to Europe and May 15 was the last date to use Russian airspace.

This desicion was arbitary as under the current bilateral over flights should have been allowed all of summer after which i think there are supposed to be re negotiations. How ever all diplomatic efforts failed and as the deadline was approching near DGCA called Aeroflot and told them not fly to DEL and ATQ and overfly Indian Airspace from Tuesday.

The next day overflight rights by Russian Authorities was extended till June 15.........

Now again for one month only.... I dont think its over. we are yet to see more on this unless they sit and rersolve issues by June 15.

Malaysia ... That's a threat India is giving the authorities there that they will ban Malaysian if AI express and Sahara are not allowed to fly to KUL soon.(And I dont think they want low cost carriers from India to come into KUL)
 
Nimish
Posts: 2891
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 3:44 pm

Quoting Mohan (Reply 40):
Well my assesment is that the Russians want to increase frequency into Amritsar and wanted to have Bilateral discussions to enhance the same, Indians were not very keen to re negotiate so soon.

Wow - pretty strange - why were we unwilling to extend the bilaterals with Russia? I thought we've been doing a good job of expanding the bilaterals lately, and this just seems like a little of the old socialist mentality creeping back in the MoCA  Smile
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
cricket
Posts: 2074
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 3:57 pm

Quoting Mohan (Reply 40):
The next day overflight rights by Russian Authorities was extended till June 15.........

Now again for one month only.... I dont think its over. we are yet to see more on this unless they sit and rersolve issues by June 15.

Russia is playing hard ball with India, Malaysia on the other hand I think wants to protect MH and its share into KUL. I think MH is scared that is AIX and S2 operate into KUL they will lose the labour market.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 6:43 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 42):
Malaysia on the other hand I think wants to protect MH and its share into KUL. I think MH is scared that is AIX and S2 operate into KUL they will lose the labour market.

that is indeed what the CNBC report suggested

Karan
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 6:52 pm

I think GOI should look into the Interests of its own Airlines & take desicions to favour them.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
BigTom
Posts: 516
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:51 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 7:13 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 44):
I think GOI should look into the Interests of its own Airlines & take desicions to favour them.

Precisely, as more and more international airlines look for more routes to and from India, DGCA should be able to negotiate from a position of strength.

Cheers
 
cricket
Posts: 2074
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 10:21 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 43):
that is indeed what the CNBC report suggested

Petty protectionism my the Malaysian government, and I fully support the MoCA on this.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 11:04 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 46):
Petty protectionism my the Malaysian government, and I fully support the MoCA on this.

Absolutely, it should be tit for tat

Karan
 
BigTom
Posts: 516
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:51 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Wed May 16, 2007 11:20 pm

For those who didn't see this: Posted by rutvij on Airliners India.

Part of AI's Memorandum to Exim Bank

http://airlinersindia.s4.bizhat.com/...sc&start=280&mforum=airlinersindia

Quote:
Projected Operating Statistics:


Important features of the plan are:

737-800 operations are predominantly to destinations in the Middle East/Persian Gulf region.
Selected domestic routes and Asian itineraries are added towards the end of the study period as the 737 fleet grows in size.


777-200LR aircraft are introduced on six non-stop routes.

Mumbai to New York City and Singapore are introduced in FY2008. Delhi service to the same two destinations begins in FY2009. A flight from Mumbai to Dubai is also added in FY2009. Mumbai to Chicago begins in FY2010.


One stop 777 -300ER to North America begins in FY2008 with flights to Los Angeles and San Francisco (both via Frankfurt) from, respectively, Mumbai and Bangalore. Direct service to London and service to Tokyo from Delhi (via Mumbai) also begins in FY2008. In FY2009 additional North American flights are added: Delhi to Toronto (via Amristar and Birmingham), Delhi to Los Angeles (via Frankfurt), Chennai to New York City (via London). Also added in FY2009 are flights to Sydney from Mumbai (via Singapore) and direct flights from Delhi to London. In FY2010 service begins to: Chicago from Delhi (via London), Chicago from Hyderabad (via Paris), San Francisco from Delhi (via Frankfurt) and New York City from Bangalore (via London), Riyadh from Mumbai, Delhi and Kochi (via Thiruvananthapuram). In FY2011 three additional North American flights are added: Vancouver from Delhi (via Frankfurt), Dallas from Delhi (via Paris), and Washington, DC from Delhi (via Paris).

In FY2009 the 787-8 begins service to Kuwait from Mumbai, Delhi, Kochi, and Chennai. . Also in the Middle East, service to Jeddah begins from Hyderabad, Lucknow, Kozhikode, and Mumbai. The 787-8 also begins service to Africa (Dar es Salaam and Mauritius) and Asia (Kuala Lumpur, Jakarta, and Seoul). In FY2010 more flights to Asia are added: Osaka from Delhi (via Hong Kong), Beijing from Delhi, Sydney from Mumbai (via Singapore), Kuala Lumpur from Delhi, Shanghai from Mumbai (via Delhi). Also added are European flights to: London from Ahmedabad, Mumbai and Dhaka (via Kolkata), Frankfurt from Chennai, Hyderabad, and Delhi.

Africa/Middle East flights are added to: Lagos from Mumbai (via Nairobi), Dubai from Mumbai and Delhi, Johannesburg from Mumbai (via Mauritius).tA--FY2011 four 60fflestic desth.ations nom Mumbai are added: Ahmcdabaa, J3angalor:9, Hyd'irabad, and Chennoi. Also added in FY2011 are flights to London from Delhi, Taipei from Mumbai (via Delhi), and Tokyo from Delhi.
 
karan69
Posts: 2699
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 52

Thu May 17, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting rutvij:

777-200LR aircraft are introduced on six non-stop routes.

Mumbai to New York City and Singapore are introduced in FY2008. ..

WHY in 2008 are they not getting the aircrafts in June--or have they given up hope on a new Paint Scheme.--

And why he bleady hell does it say SIN

Quoting rutvij:
Delhi service to the same two destinations begins in FY2009. ..

Again i hope its a mistake and the years in the aove and this quote should read 2007 and 2008 respectively--AND WHY SIN in mentioned

Quoting rutvij:
A flight from Mumbai to Dubai is also added in FY2009...

What the hell is wrong with them a 772LR for DXB--and pls dont reply by saying EY used its 345 to BOM--they rotated the aircrafts --AI is presenting a statement to the EXIM bank, its a vast difference.

i stand corrected on this one--apparently they will rotate the aircrafts through BOM-DXB-BOM--but i dont think SIN can be done since it still is a 10 hour to and from journey from BOM/DEL



Quoting rutvij:
Mumbai to Chicago begins in FY2010...

Again too late- 2010--it should be early or should be from DEL, BOM should get a west coast non-stop---SFO or even IAH would be a much better choice.

Quoting rutvij:

One stop 777 -300ER to North America begins in FY2008 with flights to Los Angeles and San Francisco (both via Frankfurt) from, respectively, Mumbai and Bangalore. ..

Again why do they start operations in 2008 when they will get as many as 3 77W aircrafts this year.

Good route allotment though.

Quoting rutvij:
service to Tokyo from Delhi (via Mumbai) also begins in FY2008. ..

I feel the 77W is just too big on the route, a 788 is perfect for the same.

Quoting rutvij:
In FY2009 additional North American flights are added: Delhi to Toronto (via Amristar and Birmingham),..

Again they barely go 70% on the 772 operations how do they expect to fill a 77W, not to mention that ATQ/BHX/YYZ are all low yield destinations, again perfect for a 788.



Quoting rutvij:
Delhi to Los Angeles (via Frankfurt), Chennai to New York City (via London)...

Fair enough, assuming they are scissor hub type operations.

Quoting rutvij:
Also added in FY2009 are flights to Sydney from Mumbai (via Singapore)..

Thats strange they mention this route for the 772LR [atleast to SIN ] now with the 77W and also below with the 788s.

Quoting rutvij:
Chicago from Hyderabad (via Paris), ..

What why via CDG, when you are banking flights to ORD at FRA/LHR and non-stop why does CDG come in the picture.

Quoting rutvij:
San Francisco from Delhi (via Frankfurt) and New York City from Bangalore (via London),..

Again hope they offer scissor hub type operations, but knowing AI they simply wont.



Quoting rutvij:
Riyadh from Mumbai, Delhi and Kochi (via Thiruvananthapuram). ..

Yahooo--we will get to fly 77Ws domestic thanks to their milk route runs

Quoting rutvij:
In FY2011 three additional North American flights are added: Vancouver from Delhi (via Frankfurt), ..

Good choice, just i feel they will waste a 77W on this route, better oing it with a 788.

Quoting rutvij:
Dallas from Delhi (via Paris), and Washington, DC from Delhi (via Paris)...

Contrary to prior belief of IAH being preffered because of greater indian population, they have gone for Dallas---IAD is better served from FRA or LHR or anything but CDG.

Quoting rutvij:
The 787-8 aircraft will be the most versatile aircraft in the fleet.

Sydney from Mumbai (via Singapore), ..

Again do they wish to send all their aircrafts on BOM-SIN.



Quoting rutvij:
Mumbai and Dhaka (via Kolkata), ..

Perfect for a 737-800 not a 788s.

A lot lefts to be desired, i hope these guys show some sense--or am i asking for too much.

Karan