Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:05 pm

Why on earth do KLM squeeze 10 seats in a row in Y-class when companies like Malaysia do only 8 across??
KLM has one of the tightest Y-Class cabins in the market and I did a few flights with them on Longhaul in Y -never-ever again !
They destroy a good technical immage by deteriorating their Y-class performance and squeezing 420 pasengers into a 777 ! Not a good move in my eyes,even if the bean-counters are happy.

[Edited 2007-05-12 12:05:54]
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
User avatar
Qatara340
Posts: 1569
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 2:07 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:15 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
Why on earth do KLM squeeze 10 seats in a row in Y-class when companies like Malaysia do only 8 across??

Its normal. EK does it since they first got there 777-200's some 10 years ago. Thai does it also. I beleive Malaysian Airlines have a standard 9 seat across their 777's. Nothing surprising really.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
Tineau
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2001 7:43 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:16 pm

I think emirates has 10 seats in a row in their 773's They are not that bad!
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:19 pm

All of this talk about KLM B777-306ER monkey class.

Seriously, think about it. How many pax booking el cheapo fares will notice? Just about nobody.

I'd be more concerned Business will still have 2-3-2.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
parisien
Posts: 833
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:04 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:27 pm

yes, EK indeed has 10 across on the 777, but they have a seat pitch that is more than average too (33-34, instead of 31 or 32)...I like the narrower seat but more seatpitch better than the reverse.
Now, if KL does 10 abreast and have 31/32 inches....i would try to avoid KL as I do now except for short hauls (an improvement maybe that it has IFE, but at what cost for KL Y pax ?)
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:31 pm

31in 10-abreast isn't much different from an A330/340 or B747. Total torture anyway, so who cares if it's 3-3-3 or 3-4-3??
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
DIJKKIJK
Posts: 1785
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:03 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:32 pm

I am not surprised. KLM is little more than an LCC anyway. Their premium product isn't exactly industry standard either.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
Asiaflyer
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:36 pm

Do they really have 10 seats? Seatguru only shows 9 seats.
I've been on KLMs B777 a couple of times since they changed their AMS - SIN service from 747 to 777. I have to admit that it is fairly tight, but not unbearable.
But to be honest, I dont remeber if it was 9 or 10. What is tight is the 31 inch pitch for the tallest people in the world (dutchmen).
SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:39 pm

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 7):
I've been on KLMs B777 a couple of times since they changed their AMS - SIN service from 747 to 777. I have to admit that it is fairly tight, but not unbearable.

So, perhaps you can post a 77W report then??

KLM doesn't have any 777-306ER yet.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
AOMlover
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:03 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:53 pm

AF's high-density 77Ws dedicated to the Carribean/Indian Ocean market feature a 10-abreast configuration in economy as well.
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:54 pm

Yee Gads, 10 abreast on a 777 is horrendous, it should be 9 and no more!

I flew a 777 on Thai from Delhi to Bangkok on a 10 abreast, it was the worst journey of my live in Y, and I am not big!!

Never again!
 
Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:55 pm

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 8):
Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 7):
I've been on KLMs B777 a couple of times since they changed their AMS - SIN service from 747 to 777. I have to admit that it is fairly tight, but not unbearable.

So, perhaps you can post a 77W report then??

KLM doesn't have any 777-306ER yet.

My remark referred to Longhaul Y-class with KLM irrespectively of aircraft.I'be been on 767's to the Middle East and 747's to the US,and the seat -pitch on all flghts was horrible. Servive Ok,but the "comfort " not as good as on competetive European carriers .
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 7:57 pm

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 10):

I flew a 777 on Thai from Delhi to Bangkok on a 10 abreast, it was the worst journey of my live in Y, and I am not big!!

Perhaps something to do with the fact TG 777-200 was in 10ab with standard aisles. That config is gone.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
andrewtang
Posts: 368
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2001 8:51 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 8:06 pm

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 7):
Do they really have 10 seats? Seatguru only shows 9 seats.
I've been on KLMs B777 a couple of times since they changed their AMS - SIN service from 747 to 777. I have to admit that it is fairly tight, but not unbearable.
But to be honest, I dont remeber if it was 9 or 10. What is tight is the 31 inch pitch for the tallest people in the world (dutchmen).

They are talking about KLM's future new B777-300ER. Not the existing B777-200ER which you have flown  Smile
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 8:12 pm

Quoting Andrewtang (Reply 13):
They are talking about KLM's future new B777-300ER. Not the existing B777-200ER which you have flown

Well I hope they bin the idea, long haul 10 abreast...........to be avoided at all costs!!
 
AlanUK
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:56 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 8:15 pm

I'm not convinced KLM will make it 10 abreast on their 777-300s.

As people have said Emirates and a few others already do have 3-4-3 on their 777s, that's their decision. But KLM risk having a big inconsistency here if they end up with 3-3-3 on 772 and 3-4-3 on 773. That would be bad!
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 8:21 pm

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 15):
But KLM risk having a big inconsistency here if they end up with 3-3-3 on 772 and 3-4-3 on 773. That would be bad!

And again, how many of their once a year V class folks would notice??? None.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
kappel
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:48 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 8:22 pm

KLM B77W First Destinations (by HB-IWC May 9 2007 in Civil Aviation)

KLM's 77W config has been recently discussed in this thread. The 10 abreast seems likely, but is not set in stone yet. It's still under debate.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
AlanUK
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:56 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 8:24 pm

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 16):
And again, how many of their once a year V class folks would notice??? None.

Trust me, when BA had 3-3-3 on their 777s and 3-4-3 on some 777s to holiday destinations (operated under AML), customers did notice, and complaints were sky high! Hence why BA sold off AML and re-configured their 777s to be all the same!!!
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 8:31 pm

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 18):
Trust me, when BA had 3-3-3 on their 777s and 3-4-3 on some 777s to holiday destinations (operated under AML), customers did notice, and complaints were sky high! Hence why BA sold off AML and re-configured their 777s to be all the same!!!

Trust me, the average "once a year el cheapo to BKK" KLM pax conencting at AMS couldn't care less if it's 8 or 11 abreast. Middle seat in C, that's a whole different animal though.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
tommytoyz
Posts: 1195
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:08 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 8:33 pm

I flew on EK's 777-300ER with 10 across and you'd never know the seat is only 17.5" - just like in a standard 747 Y- class seat. The only noticeable things are that the aisle is a little narrower but more legroom. I prefer a 0.5" narrower seat but with 2" more legroom anyday for long haul.

If they offer more legroom in exchange for the 10 across, or 0.5 inch less seat width, it's a good deal for everyone, especially tall people.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 9:23 pm

As said in the other thread, the 10-abreast is likely but not yet absolutely sure for the B77Ws which will join the KLM fleet by the end of February 2008. If the 10-abreast configuration happens, we are likely to see an increased seat pitch for at least the first economy cabin. KLM is now looking at a front Y cabin with a 34" pitch and a rear cabin with a 32" pitch. The frnt cabin would be reserved for elite frequent flyers and higher fares, whereas the bottom fares would end up in the back of the bus. Overall configuration would be 35C/393Y.

I do find the continued presence of the middle seat in the small WBC cabin much more of a concern though. Just 5 rows of business class is already very limited as it goes, but the middle seat is absolutely out of this time for USD4,000 roundtrip tickets. Ans while KLM is contemplating adding one row to WBC for the B77W, the middle seat seems to be uncontested within the company. All of that comes at a time where a number of competitors are now boasting 1-2-1 configurations in business class with direct aisle access for every single seat.
 
larspl
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 11:03 pm

can anyone tell me where this 10 abreast gossip comes from?
facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
 
Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 11:19 pm

it was on Flyertalk I think and re-discussed in airliners.de ...
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 11:33 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 1):

Its normal. EK does it since they first got there 777-200's some 10 years ago. Thai does it also. I beleive Malaysian Airlines have a standard 9 seat across their 777's. Nothing surprising really.

...thus possibly one of the reasons (of many) as to why MH is bleeding money and AF/LH is one of the most profitable carriers in the world... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sat May 12, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 1):
Thai does it also.

Thai does not fly a single 777 in 10 abreast config.

9-abreast 34" in monkey class.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 16):
And again, how many of their once a year V class folks would notice??? None.

You're right. Not many infrequent leisure travellers will notice but not every one in Y is a leisure traveller and not every business traveller flies in J. Furthermore, at one point do we continue to pick away at Y. Yes, it's not the bread and butter of an airline but an airline still needs Y class. Yes, several airline do 10 abreast but as noted some of those airlines offset the lateral space by providing for legroom. Just because people aren't paying thousands of dollars for their seat (though those that do pay full Y are often paying four digits for the same sub-standard service) doesn't mean we need to continue to make Y more sub-human.

Though the fact that you repeatedly refer to economy class as "monkey" class tells me that you don't have much regard for the people who fly in Y, anyway, so I won't bother arguing the point much more.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
etfokker50
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:04 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 12:27 am

I've done a trip or two in KLM's 777s. It's not all that bad, the 10 abreast, especially with IFE in economy. I've had worse experiences with airlines with no IFE onn long flights...

Oh, and KQ, what setup do they have then?
 
PHKLM
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting ETFokker50 (Reply 27):
I've done a trip or two in KLM's 777s. It's not all that bad, the 10 abreast, especially with IFE in economy

Impossible. The current KLM 772's feature only 9 abreast in the 3-3-3 setup.
The 10 abreast config is supposedly to enter the scene on the 77W, to be delivered in Feb 2008.
 
georgiaame
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:55 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 1:31 am

I took a peek at seatguru, and there seems to be some 30 Y rows amenable to 10 across seating. 1 extra seat/row x 30 rows x let's say $400 rt of revenue translates to $12,000. additional revenue, or actually, up to $6,000. for the one way leg, assuming all of those additional seats are sold. It could be more, based on the price of the actual tickets, and I don't think 30 passengers eat up that much jet fuel, they won't require additional flight attendants, and account for only 1320lbs of additional baggage in the hold before pricing penalties kick in. Even assuming $10 for inflight meals, which I am certain is a wildly inflated cost, that $300 loss for food is only a fraction to the additional $6000 revenue brought in, essentially for squishing extra unwashed bodies into cattle class, which is unpleasant under the best of circumstances. And furthermore, assuming 20 of those extra 30 bodies buys a single drink for $5. the airline has significantly offset the cost of the meal service. Seems like an economic no brainer to me.

And thanks for the heads up: I won't be flying on a KLM 777 anytime in the near future.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
KL577
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:21 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 7):
I've been on KLMs B777 a couple of times since they changed their AMS - SIN service from 747 to 777. I have to admit that it is fairly tight, but not unbearable.
But to be honest, I dont remeber if it was 9 or 10. What is tight is the 31 inch pitch for the tallest people in the world (dutchmen).

But the B777 only operates to Singapore since 5 weeks or so? I arrived in SIN with a KLM B777 on April 2nd:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Aldo Bidini



Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 29):
And thanks for the heads up: I won't be flying on a KLM 777 anytime in the near future.

Being used to flying a lot on KLM's B767, the legroom was MUCH better and the seating (indeed 9 abreast) is fine. I don't care much about IFE, but the food service in economy is good (and much better since they upgraded the meal service in economy last December). I would say the value for money in KLM economy in a 772 is good. That being said, 10 abreast in economy does not sound like a good idea to me (from the passenger perspective).
 
User avatar
Qatara340
Posts: 1569
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 2:07 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 3:01 am

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 25):
Thai does not fly a single 777 in 10 abreast config.

9-abreast 34" in monkey class.

Thai's 777-200's have 10-abreast config.

http://airtravel.about.com/gi/dynami...tion/Aircraft_Seatmaps/B7722_l.htm


Please check the link above.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
PHKLM
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 31):
Please check the link above.

I am sorry, but on http://www.thaiair.com/Travel_Destin...tion/Aircraft_Seatmaps/default.htm I cannot find a single 777 with 3-4-3. They all seem to have 3-3-3; at least the ones depicted on the official website.
 
beeweel15
Posts: 902
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 3:23 am

Lets have a survey:

If you had a choice on a 777-200/300 with the same amount of seats

1 - Would you like 9 abreast seating with 31/32in pitch

or

2 - Would you like 10 abreast seating with 34/35in pitch
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
when companies like Malaysia do only 8 across

Malaysia Airlines does have a 2-5-2 configuration which gives 9 abrest. I don't think there are any carriers having 8 abrest in Economy Class in any 777 type.
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
sstsomeday
Posts: 821
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:32 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 6):
I am not surprised. KLM is little more than an LCC anyway. Their premium product isn't exactly industry standard either.

I think it's shameful. The 747 was originally configured with 9 across in coach, and eventually they raised that to 10, to become the new industry standard.

If 10 across in a 777 is now the Industry standard, then the Industry standard is shamefully unacceptable.

I lament the fact that world travel for us regular folk has devolved into something to either be endured or avoided altogether. The long trips are so grueling, it's no fun anymore. And when there is a weather or mechanical delay, then they don't have the equipment, or crews, or ground staff, or alternative availability to deal with it.

When I have to travel, I no longer look forward to the flight, I brace for the worst.

This news is yet more evidence of the continued deterioration of service. When I can't imagine how they could make it worse, they find a way.
I come in peace
 
hotje
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 5:11 am

Some stupid math and don't flame me, cause it's just basic figures.

On seatguru the Y-class in emirates 77W (2-class config) starts after door 2, same as it will be in KLM 77W.

EK: 40 rows times 34" comes to 385 seats.

40 * 34 = 1360" global length for Y seating (I wish I had a detailed floorplan)

1360 / 31 = 43.8 (almost 44 rows) ==> 44 * 9 = 396 seats.

So without taking the lost seats in the rear and toilet / galley configurations into mind, a normal 3-3-3 with 31' is feasible.

Let's just wait and see what they come up with, although I dread a 3-4-3 config in a 777. I personally don't think a 3-4-3 will come. Argument is that they would have done it in the MD-11 in the redecoration last year. Martinair for example always flew 3-4-3 in their MD-11 and DC-10s.
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 1978
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
when companies like Malaysia do only 8 across??

Not according to this they don't.

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Mal...laysia_Airlines_Boeing_777-200.php
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 6):
I am not surprised. KLM is little more than an LCC anyway. Their premium product isn't exactly industry standard either.

KL seems to have the oldest fleet to any major EU carrier... those 737's are nearly falling apart in the air.
Ive flew one of their F50's the other week and it's like flying on a ducks back.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
PHKLM
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 38):
those 737's are nearly falling apart in the air.
Ive flew one of their F50's the other week and it's like flying on a ducks back

You should separate fact from fiction.
The F50 is indeed not very new and sensitive to turbulence but I'd opt for the F50 any day over a duck's back  Wink
The European KLM fleet leaves to be desired, but interiors are upgraded and 733/734's are steadily replaced with 738's.
KLM is thinking about Fokker replacements as well, proven by the demonstration flight Embraer did last year at AMS.

Quoting Hotje (Reply 36):
I personally don't think a 3-4-3 will come.

I hope you're right. But I've first heard about the 3-4-3 config almost a year ago, and it came from sources within KL. Since then, it has only been comfirmed instead of denied...
 
davidkunzVIE
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:32 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 7:57 am

3-4-3 is fine. I can't see why people complain about that. Are so many people so grossly obese that an additional seat threatens their life on a 10 hrs flight?
I am more concerned about seating pitch.
DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
 
BAC111
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:13 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 3):
All of this talk about KLM B777-306ER monkey class.

Seriously, think about it. How many pax booking el cheapo fares will notice? Just about nobody.

OK, I'm know late to the debate, but LH has it exactly right. The market has spoken, it works for KL, and if you don't care for it, don't fly it.
 
JRadier
Posts: 3943
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 8:21 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 38):
those 737's are nearly falling apart in the air.

nicely backed up mate!
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
jr
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 8:29 am

I have flown on EK's 773 with the 3-4-3 set up, and it was terrible - and i am only 5' 7. The 10 abreast is ok for short hops, but not for long hauls. Thankfully it was just LGW-DXB, but still... the size of the seat became more and more evident as the flight went on. I would certainly avoid that config... especially on flights longer than 3 or 4 hours.
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
RedChili
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:23 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 8:38 am

Nobody has mentioned that Austrian also has 10-abreast on their 772s.

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 16):
And again, how many of their once a year V class folks would notice??? None.

I've spoken to two friends who recently made business trips on Y-class on KL 744s. They're not frequent flyers, and they were absolutely shocked by the cramped condition in the 744s. They wanted to stay away from KL in the future.

Quoting ETFokker50 (Reply 27):
I've had worse experiences with airlines with no IFE onn long flights...

I don't understand what IFE has got to do with leg room and seat width. The seat doesn't become wider because of good IFE.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 29):
1 extra seat/row x 30 rows x let's say $400 rt of revenue translates to $12,000. additional revenue, or actually, up to $6,000. for the one way leg, assuming all of those additional seats are sold.

Yield would probably go down with 30 extra seats, so the average ticket price for all 322 seats would be reduced.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 29):
they won't require additional flight attendants,

If you're talking about the 772ER they're flying today, by adding 30 seats to the current 292, you would indeed need another flight attendant.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 29):
assuming 20 of those extra 30 bodies buys a single drink for $5.

KL doesn't sell drinks on long-haul flights. I believe that even alcoholic drinks are free for Y-class.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 29):
And thanks for the heads up: I won't be flying on a KLM 777 anytime in the near future.

You've just confirmed that KL will lose passengers by adding an extra seat.

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 31):
Thai's 777-200's have 10-abreast config. http://airtravel.about.com/gi/dynami...ircraft_Seatmaps/B7722_l.htmPlease check the link above.

That seat map is outdated.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
iwok
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:35 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 9:10 am

Quoting Beeweel15 (Reply 33):
or2 - Would you like 10 abreast seating with 34/35in pitch

I'll go for more pitch any day. A seat that is 1/2" wide does absolutely nothing for me as opposed to getting more leg room.

Look at it this way. You loose 2.7% of your seat width for an increase in almost 20% increase in leg room. A BIG advantage of the increased legroom model IMO.

Quoting KL577 (Reply 30):
Being used to flying a lot on KLM's B767, the legroom was MUCH better and the seating (indeed 9 abreast) is fine.

Do you really mean that the KLM birds had 9 across??? 7 is typical.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Gaddis - Spot This!



iwok
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 1939
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 35):
I lament the fact that world travel for us regular folk has devolved into something to either be endured or avoided altogether. The long trips are so grueling, it's no fun anymore.

To my mind, you should fly Y+ or J if condtions in Y are so bad for you. Taking into account the amount fares have falle by, I reckon that a J trip today, in real terms, is similar in price to a Y trip ten years ago.

Quoting Jr (Reply 43):
I have flown on EK's 773 with the 3-4-3 set up, and it was terrible - and i am only 5' 7. The 10 abreast is ok for short hops, but not for long hauls

Would you call SYD-BKK-DXB a short haul? I would not. I had no problems with the 3-4-3 layout. In fact, I appreciated the extra pitch, and good cabin srvice much more than I noticed the supposed "narrow" seats.

Quoting Iwok (Reply 45):

Do you really mean that the KLM birds had 9 across??? 7 is typical.


You are looking at a 767-400 there mate.....

It amases me that people do not seem to know the layout variences in different aircraft type. This is a supposed enthusiasts website.....for the record.

Airbus A300/A310/A330/A340 TYPICALLY J 2-2-2 Y 2-4-2 (MYT/ TCX, etc 2-3-2 in "premium" 3-3-3 in Y)
Boeing 747 TYPICALLY J 2-3-2 Y 3-4-3 (J is very variable)
Boeing 767 TYPICALLY J 2-2-2 Y 2-3-2 (J can be layed out 2-1-2, TOM, etc 2-4-2 in Y)
Boeing 777 TYPICALLY J 2-3-2 Y 3-3-3 (J varies downward from this, Y 3-4-3)

I think thats pretty aaccurate. As I said J varies widely. EK do 2-3-2 in J on 777s, but SQ do 1-2-1.

Brian
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
Asiaflyer
Posts: 705
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting KL577 (Reply 30):
But the B777 only operates to Singapore since 5 weeks or so? I arrived in SIN with a KLM B777 on April 2nd:

KL changed to B777 from B747 Combi on March 26th I think. The reason was that they needed more capacity as the flight is almost always fully booked.
With SAS, Finnair and Austrian moving their resources from SIN to other Asian destinations, capacity between SIN and Europe has significantly decreased.
What I can complain about is the 31 inch pitch on a 11-12 hours flight. Feels pretty tight when you want to stretch out you legs and try to sleep for 7-8 hours. I would prefer to put in 10 seats a row even in these 772s if they could increase the pitch with an inch or two instead.
SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
 
CHRISBA777ER
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 1):

Its normal. EK does it since they first got there 777-200's some 10 years ago. Thai does it also. I beleive Malaysian Airlines have a standard 9 seat across their 777's. Nothing surprising really.

...thus possibly one of the reasons (of many) as to why MH is bleeding money and AF/LH is one of the most profitable carriers in the world...

What layout do PK have?

I dont think their Y Class layout is MH's problem - there are many more deeper seated issues there. I'd love to see them back on top i really would.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19065
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: KLM 777-300 : 10 Seats In A Row!

Sun May 13, 2007 10:57 am

[quote=JRadier,reply=42]Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 38):
those 737's are nearly falling apart in the air.

What are you referring to? If not mistaken, KL has replaced all the seats (or are in process of doing so) on their 733s and 734s and their 738s and 739s are fairly new. I've always found KL aircraft interiors to be in generally good condition, and they seem to be a better job of keeping their aircraft clean than certain other carriers.