dsa
Posts: 679
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:22 am

Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 3:22 am

Hi

At a time when the green groups are constantly pressuring our governments to put pressure and legislation into place to restrict and scrutinise aviation it is time that the aviation community showed a united front. It is clear that the environmental groups are simply exagerrating the negative effects on aviation, while in fact aviation contributes a significant proportion of the World's GDP, is a major employer and even by the year 2030 will still only contribute 5% of global CO2 emissions.

The message is simple guys, if you want to carry on flying for holidays and business, if you want to support thousands of jobs worldwide and if you want to fly unrestricted, sign this petition!

http://www.gopetition.com/online/12222.html

I call on all A.Netters and people who love to fly around the World to sign this petition!

DSA

P.S Please post the link on anyother websites you are a part of and encourage friends and family to sign!

[Edited 2007-05-14 20:24:04]
Go Skybus!!!!
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 3:28 am

Gee - I'm the second signature. Hope there will be more ...
 
dsa
Posts: 679
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 3:29 am

Hopefully more people will sign up, its only just started. Come on people, anyone on here who does'nt sign can't be that interested in aviation.

DSA

By the way, the guy who made the insulting comments both to the petition starter and the industry entry has been deleted, but thank you for your support!

[Edited 2007-05-14 20:41:34]
Go Skybus!!!!
 
GRZ-AIR
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 3:02 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 3:39 am

I did sign it..took 2 seconds and you never know - it can make a difference!
When I joined A.net it was still free, haha ;).
 
Humberside
Posts: 3223
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 3:49 am

Ive signed it. The economic benefits always seem to be forgotten, especially important in areas needing regeneration
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Dsa (Thread starter):
The message is simple guys, if you want to carry on flying for holidays and business, if you want to support thousands of jobs worldwide and if you want to fly unrestricted, sign this petition!

Come on . . . nothing is going to happen. Only thing that might change is people like GE will be pushed to continue making cleaner engines, which is good for everyone. Travel for business and holidays is not going to be stopped . . . you have got to be kidding.

Regardless, I am very concerned about the environment but these people complaining about aviation are ridiculous. Face it the problem is cars . . . the problem is Americans.
 
cirrusdriver
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:29 pm

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 5:20 am

I agree with the cause, but until the aviation industry stops crapping on us here in the US then they will have to suffer, just as we have.
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 705
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 6:10 am

I hate the way the UK press continuously goes on about how bad aviation is, then has special offers on cheap flights if you collect the tokens or all the revenue they get from airline advertising. Aviation is a vital aspect to society in many ways and nobody complains about all the cruises which create as much pollution.
 
RobTrent
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:48 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 6:21 am

I think that Aviation is an easy target. Let's face it you work your b***s off to make a living - You take the family on holiday to somewhere relaxing to get away from the daily grind.
Politicians are generally full of bullshit and motives of self preservation in my experience. Given the minimal affect of air traffic ppllution in the grand scheme of things perhaps attention to population awareness and Industrial development should be given priority

Just my 2 Cents
Regards
T7 - You know it makes sense !
 
Boeing77W
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 6:27 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 7):
nobody complains about all the cruises which create as much pollution

Dam right, shipping accounts for around 5% of global CO2 emissions which is more than all of the African countries combined and yet aviation only accounts for around 2%. The shipping industry is also growing at the same rate, if not faster than aviation...don't hear any body complaining about that now do we!
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 6:55 am

Done and done!

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:12 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 5):
Come on . . . nothing is going to happen. Only thing that might change is people like GE will be pushed to continue making cleaner engines, which is good for everyone. Travel for business and holidays is not going to be stopped . . . you have got to be kidding.

Hitler won't invade Poland, and all anyone will ever need is 640K!

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 5):
I agree with the cause, but until the aviation industry stops crapping on us here in the US then they will have to suffer, just as we have.

LOL. No smilie, but surely you are joking, yes?

Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 7):
I hate the way the UK press continuously goes on about how bad aviation is, then has special offers on cheap flights if you collect the tokens or all the revenue they get from airline advertising.

HA ha ha ha ha, that is funny, and very much to the point.
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 7:20 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 11):
LOL. No smilie, but surely you are joking, yes?

I'm not sure why your post above says Quoting ATLAaron, but I did not say that.

Quoting Khobar (Reply 11):
Hitler won't invade Poland, and all anyone will ever need is 640K!

Slightly different.
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:12 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 9:06 am

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 12):
I'm not sure why your post above says Quoting ATLAaron, but I did not say that.

Indeed. Sorry about that. Not sure what happened.

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 12):
Slightly different.

Interestingly enough, yes, but only slightly different.
 
charlienorth
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:24 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 9:21 am

Done--and if I disappear you know why ..Andre...oops ...anyhow it is a good thing to be aware of,it is easy for some people to jump on the global warming hoax,but they don't seem to understand the economic effects.
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
ual757
Posts: 745
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:58 pm

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 9:23 am

I bet this will lead into Global Warming......
 
PGNCS
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:07 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 5):
Face it the problem is cars . . . the problem is Americans.

So I take by your blanket indictment of Americans that you have been to countries with no pollution controls and found the US most in need of environmental restructuring?  sarcastic 
 
Rivet42
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:26 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 11:27 am

Well, I'm afraid I don't see any point in such a petition, the aviation industry certainly doesn't need any protecting, its economic power and the political connections of those that matter will make sure of that.

On the other hand, a petition calling upon the airline CEO's to put more effort into using their corporate muscle to support good causes (is easyJet the only airline that offers a sustainably farmed coffee brand...?) would be nice...  duck 
I travel, therefore I am.
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10004
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 2:14 pm

It would have a far greater impact if you managed to create your petition through the 10 Downing Street site. There is already one on there which is vaguely similar, but word yours to highlight the issue at hand and it may well be accepted. They have one there demanding the closure of LHR even...  Yeah sure

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
alangirvan
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 2:13 pm

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 2:36 pm

In NZ we have a national magazine, the Listener, where they have just appointed an Environment writer. Even she has said that ALL transport industries create 19% of green house gas pollution compared with agriculture which generates 49% of all methane. She wants us all to have days when we give up eating meat. So, those of you who want to go for a bike ride to the nearest Tofu burger shop, send us your trip report.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 3:26 pm

Quoting Khobar (Reply 13):

Indeed. Sorry about that. Not sure what happened.

You likely highlighted the text in one post and clicked on the 'quote selected text' button in another. As an example I highlighted your text and first clicked on the button in your post (and got the above). I left your text selected and clicked on the button in the following post (#14) and got the following (with apologies to Charlienorth).

Quoting Charlienorth (Reply 14):

Indeed. Sorry about that. Not sure what happened.
 
NASBWI
Posts: 919
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 15, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 16):
So I take by your blanket indictment of Americans that you have been to countries with no pollution controls and found the US most in need of environmental restructuring?

My thoughts, exactly.
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
dsa
Posts: 679
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Wed May 16, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting Rivet42 (Reply 17):

FR stocks Fairtrade Coffee and Tea.

Thank you to all those who have signed, please continue the effort!

DSA
Go Skybus!!!!
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Wed May 16, 2007 2:40 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 16):
So I take by your blanket indictment of Americans that you have been to countries with no pollution controls and found the US most in need of environmental restructuring?

Excuse me? So you don't think the majority of carbon dioxide emissions come from Americans? I think the facts show otherwise.
 
xjet
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:09 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Wed May 16, 2007 2:50 am

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 5):
Face it the problem is cars . . . the problem is Americans.

HA! You are amazing. Why do most prople think countries like China and India that are industrializing faster than weeds grow aren't a problem. How the hell do you make the case that Americans are the biggest problem? Oh, let me guess....because we didn't sign Kyoto?

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 23):
So you don't think the majority of carbon dioxide emissions come from Americans? I think the facts show otherwise.

What facts do you even have that Co2 causes temperature increases? There are many many scientists that have proven it is the other way around.
 
YULWinterSkies
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:42 pm

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Wed May 16, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting SeansasLCY (Reply 7):
I hate the way the UK press continuously goes on about how bad aviation is, then has special offers on cheap flights if you collect the tokens or all the revenue they get from airline advertising.

However the need for flying out of the UK should be reduced now with the Channel Tunnel, and yet more people than ever are flying. The UK government is to blame here for not pushing rail development as we still have to see high-speed trains beyond the tunnel, nation-wide (come on, England is a very densely populated nation, and most large cities are all clustered together, it won't take so many miles or rails to cover most the population). As travelling by train in the UK is still a pain in the a**, alternatives have come up, ie airlines...
Despite this major lack of investment, the UK does make efforts for reduction of GHG, and are actually quite advanced nowadays, hence the press' anger about GHG emissions from UK air industry going way up why everyone else's are dropping.
I'm not in favor of such a kind of petition for the reason below, and a tighter gvt control could only result in :
1. a more rationalized air transportation network, itself resulting in a stronger industry on the long-term.
2. more fuel-efficient engines, itself resulting in saving a lot of $$$ to airlines.
3. more last-generation airplanes, built with more environmentally friendly techniques.

"the reality is that the economic benefits far outweigh the minimal environmental effects" . My point here is that as long as we will consider that environment conservation plays against economy, we won't do any major advance in the field, as major environmental destruction can only result in a major economic collapse, while the easiest way we can sustain a stable (and growing) economy is by keeping our environment as stable as possible.

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 23):
Excuse me? So you don't think the majority of carbon dioxide emissions come from Americans? I think the facts show otherwise.

Per capita it's still "the Americans", in other words (more accurately) the USA. And that goes beyond cars, with for example very CO2-emitting coal as the main source for electricity generation.

Quoting XJET (Reply 24):
What facts do you even have that Co2 causes temperature increases? There are many many scientists that have proven it is the other way around.

Red card for such a statement. There is only a MINORITY of scientists who are SKEPTICAL about CO2 resulting in temperature increases. Now, what's next? "scientists" telling us CO2 in the atmosphere is dropping? I have no problem with people being aviation fans and accepting that aviation has an environmental impact, like any other human activity.
What I dislike though is fundamentalism. See a good analogy with religion : most religious people will accept that others can think differently and will try to work with them to keep humanity together behind common challenges, while a minority of believers aka fundamentalists will try everything to fight against others' ideas, by thinking that only their narrow religious ideology is the only truth and superior to anyone else's, such being at the origin of so many conflicts on Earth...
Peace. No one and nothing is perfect, accept it.
When I doubt... go running!
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Wed May 16, 2007 3:41 am

XJet, you are getting way too passionate about this. I am an American living in Ohio so I am not throwing people under the bus without throwing myself under as well.

I'm not sure why some people are acting surprised that Americans produce more waste per person, more carbon dioxide per person, etc. than anyone else in the world. These are facts not opinions.

AND I didn't say ANYTHING about what I believe the effects of CO2 are, cause I have no idea. I don't know if I believe global warming is happening or not, I don't have enough knowledge to make that decision.

None the less, please don't take offence to anything I said because no offence was intended.
 
PGNCS
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:07 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Wed May 16, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 26):
AND I didn't say ANYTHING about what I believe the effects of CO2 are, cause I have no idea. I don't know if I believe global warming is happening or not, I don't have enough knowledge to make that decision.

Maybe his issue is due to the fact that you said "the problem is Americans."
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Wed May 16, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 27):
the problem is Americans

Well that is my opinion and I am an American. I feel I am allowed to say that since I am including myself in that equation.
 
xjet
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:09 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Wed May 16, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 25):
Red card for such a statement. There is only a MINORITY of scientists who are SKEPTICAL about CO2 resulting in temperature increases. Now, what's next? "scientists" telling us CO2 in the atmosphere is dropping? I have no problem with people being aviation fans and accepting that aviation has an environmental impact, like any other human activity.
What I dislike though is fundamentalism. See a good analogy with religion : most religious people will accept that others can think differently and will try to work with them to keep humanity together behind common challenges, while a minority of believers aka fundamentalists will try everything to fight against others' ideas, by thinking that only their narrow religious ideology is the only truth and superior to anyone else's, such being at the origin of so many conflicts on Earth...
Peace. No one and nothing is perfect, accept it.

Okay, who the hell knows about majorities and minorities of scientists? Global Warming has become such a standard in the media and politics lately that the opposing view is shut up. There is no consensus in science, period. No such thing. Science is science, pure and simple. There are just as many facts disproving global warming as there are helping its argument. I am all for helping the environment, really I am. I am just sick and tired of politicians and activists trying to tax me to death and guilt me to death for "killing the planet". I do not for one second think that humans are significant enough to alter the entire ecosystem of this spinning ball. There have been trends in the climate long before man was here. I don't think I remember reading about the dinosaurs driving SUVs around in the paleolithic age.

You want to talk about religion! Global warming is a religion. I am no fundamentalist as you seem to suggest. I just want the debate to happen. There hasn't been one. One politician makes a movie and all the sudden it is the gospel? Is that how we do things now?

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 26):
XJet, you are getting way too passionate about this. I am an American living in Ohio so I am not throwing people under the bus without throwing myself under as well.

I apologize for reacting so harshly, I am just get sick of Americans getting blamed for everything under the sun. I realize you are here too and are blaming yourself as well. That is your right. I am just tired of being blamed for the worlds issues. I don't take offense to what you said at all...it's all good.
 
dsa
Posts: 679
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Thu May 17, 2007 6:52 am

121 Signatures so far, thanks for signing guys!

It only takes 15 seconds to fill out and can make a difference and help to secure aviations future.

SIGN THE PETITION AND SAVE FLIGHT!

http://www.gopetition.com/online/12222.html

DSA
Go Skybus!!!!
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Tue May 29, 2007 10:49 pm

ATAG has just launched a new website to set the story straight. See

www.enviro.aero
 
vv701
Posts: 5774
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Wed May 30, 2007 9:55 am

Quoting GRZ-AIR (Reply 3):
I did sign it..took 2 seconds and you never know - it can make a difference!

It is my view that this is the problem with petitions. It takes two seconds and requires no effort on behalf of individsuals. My own experience is that a short note or e-mail to an appropriate individual or individuals is more effective and exerts a lot more influence than a signed petition. In the aviation unrelated instance that I am thinking of a circular, preprinted letter (which in itself is likewly to have more influence that an electronic petition) indiviually posted by well over 500 people was given significatly less credibility in both a Public Inquiry and a subsequent appeal to the High Court than just over 150 individual letters some of which were less than a dozen words in length.

So my question is to whom should we send these e-mails or letters - there needs to be some co-ordination on this to ensure that the weight of the opinions expressed is not dissipated over a too wide recipient list.

Quoting RobTrent (Reply 8):
I think that Aviation is an easy target.

In the UK I think it is worse than that. It has become a politically correct target particularly since the government increased the passenger tax earlier this year. It has reached the point where many quite intelligent UK citizens believe it is less polluting to climb into their car and drive than to fly from London to Manchester. In other words the anti-aviation outcry is now contorting the truth.

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 5):
Face it the problem is cars . . . the problem is Americans.

I understand that the best selling private vehicle in the world is a Ford pick-up truck with a 5.8 litre engine that sells over 1 million a year even though it is not available outside North America.One can only hope that the high price of petrol (gas) will change this.

Despite this and the fact that the USA refused to sign the Kyoto Agreement I still believe they are somewhat unfairly criticised this side of the Atlantic. For example a couple of years back for the second time in my life I drove from Los Angeles to Palm Springs. On this occasion I found myself driving through a desert valley close to Palm Springs that I had also driven through some twenty-five years earlier. But now it was one huge wind farm with electricity generating wind mills as far as the eye could see. I inquired and was told that the farm consisted of over 1,500 turbines and was the third largest in California. Now I do not think (please correct me if I am wrong) that the UK has a total of 1,500 wind turbines even though population wise it is twice the size of California.
 
ShannoninAMA
Posts: 1211
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 1:37 pm

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Wed May 30, 2007 10:00 am

Signed  Smile



Shannon.
Shipwreck alert. Head on over to Airspaceonline.com.
 
Glom
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Wed May 30, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 18):
They have one there demanding the closure of LHR even...

The problem with open democracy is you also have to listen to any hippie wack job. It must be fun to lead a life so unburdeoned by reality.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 25):
However the need for flying out of the UK should be reduced now with the Channel Tunnel, and yet more people than ever are flying.

There was some strain put on the shorter cross Channel flights early on but growth in travel has sorted that out. The problem is that the Channel Tunnel has significantly less capacity than the skies above the Channel, hence it can only contribute a small fraction. It is also massively in debt.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 32):
It has become a politically correct target particularly since the government increased the passenger tax earlier this year.

Aviation is visible. It is also seen as a little bourgoise. Never think this is all just about carbon footprints.
 
Yflyer
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:05 am

RE: Clearing The Air - Sign The Petition!

Wed May 30, 2007 2:03 pm

Quoting Dsa (Reply 30):
It only takes 15 seconds to fill out and can make a difference and help to secure aviations future.

Actually, Dsa, while I'm sure you mean well, your petition is way to vague and general to make much if any difference at all.

A good petition should be addressed to a specific government official or body, and should in support of or opposition to some specific proposal -- such as "To John Smith of the City of Long Beach Planning Committee, we, the undersigned support proposition 123 to expand Long Beach Airport for the following reasons: blah blah blah..."

Your petition, on the other hand, is directed at "The EU" (what specific EU agency?) and "environmental groups" (some vague abstract group of people). It basically reads like "we don't like what you say and want you to stop." You also make the mistake of assuming your audience has the same knowledge you do. If you want to reach any audience beyond a.netters you need to actually explain your position, show some examples of these supposed "exaggerations" and some evidence that they truly are exaggerations. Lastly, your position is directed at the EU, and yet many of the people signing it aren't even citizens of the EU. Do you really think any EU politician is going to listen to people who aren't even voters in the EU?

And I hate to be even more of a party pooper, but I don't know if you should even bother with any of those suggestions anyway, because online petitions are probably just a waste of everyone's time.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, Alexa [Bot], alski, Baidu [Spider], CAL, Coal, CrimsonNL, dk44, DobboDobbo, dubaiamman243, eclipz, Heavierthanair, intotheair, JannEejit, jasdiaz, knope2001, qf15, qvb222, Tokushima, usflyer123, VC10er, Yahoo [Bot] and 235 guests