ravel
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Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Tue May 15, 2007 8:36 pm

http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/Fi...konetta+Aeroflotille/1135227286236
http://www.finnairgroup.com/group/gr...up_11_2_1.html?&Id=1179222681.html

According to Helsingin Sanomat, Finnair is selling two of its MD-11 trijets to the Russian airline Aeroflot. Currenttly Finnair is operating seven MD-11's, five of them have leasing contracts and two of them are owned by Finnair.

Which planes will be sold? LGA and LGB?

Finnair will end MD-11 operations by the end of 2010 - after that the long haul operations will be operated only with A330/A340 and later A350.

Aeroflot already operates DC-10 freighters, are this planes going to be in PAX use or converted to freighters?
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Tue May 15, 2007 8:39 pm

I am flying Finnair when I go to BKK in October - desperate to fly the MD11 before they are retired.

SU will convert these to freighters presumably.

[Edited 2007-05-15 14:02:25]
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
ravel
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Tue May 15, 2007 8:40 pm

I have heard that the Finnair's MD-11 give the best three-holer ride in the world, is this ture?  Smile
 
PM
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Tue May 15, 2007 8:44 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
desperate to fly the MD11 before they are retired.

I was lucky enough to fly them regularly when they flew for SR. I have loads of good memories of them at LAX, NBO, KIX...

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
SU will convert these to freighters presumably.

That would be my guess.

Quoting Ravel (Reply 2):
I have heard that the Finnair's MD-11 give the best three-holer ride in the world, is this ture?

Not if you're back in Y where they have something like fourteen-abreast!  Wink
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Tue May 15, 2007 8:51 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
SU will convert these to freighters presumably.

That would be my guess.

That would be right. IIRC as part of the 787 deal Boeing was to supply 6 MD-11Fs as part of the package but since the deal did not progress on time SU missed out on 3 and had to pay considerably higher lease rates on the 3 they got. The other 3 went to TAM. So SU still has a need for MD-11Fs.

2010, will be sad to AYs MD-11s no more.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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INNflight
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Tue May 15, 2007 8:55 pm

Quoting Ravel (Reply 2):
I have heard that the Finnair's MD-11 give the best three-holer ride in the world, is this ture?

I've been onboard the very last Swiss Air Lines MD-11 flight, gotta see whether Finnair can actually beat

- "low level" (for an airliner in cruise) above the Swiss Alps

- approaching Berne Airport, going around at minimums ( wooo Big grin )

- landing at ZRH's rwy 16, which is a "take-off only - landings not allowed" runway in normal ops

- the song 'time to say goodbye' making pax cry while taxiing to the gate  Smile  Smile  Smile

- water salutes of course

- almost an hr on the plane after arrival at the gate, chatting to the crew in the flight deck, posing for pictures, etc.

Was the best flight I ever had, for sure!!  Smile


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Cheers, guys...long live the MD-11!!
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Tue May 15, 2007 8:58 pm

Are SU still getting used MD11F's from Boeing?
 
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Tue May 15, 2007 9:04 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
Quoting Ravel (Reply 2):
I have heard that the Finnair's MD-11 give the best three-holer ride in the world, is this ture?

Not if you're back in Y where they have something like fourteen-abreast!

In the words of the great Homer J Simpson esquire...

DOH!
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
ka
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Tue May 15, 2007 9:49 pm

(OFF topic)

Quoting INNflight (Reply 5):
- ZRH's rwy 16, which is a "take-off only - landings not allowed" runway in normal ops

Which is not correct.
Landings on RWY16 are allowed and done, though due to the RWY crossing 16/28 it increases complexity and thus the possibility of runway incursions. So landings on RWY16 are usually only conducted in less traffic or for operational reasons.

KA.
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KL808
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Tue May 15, 2007 9:50 pm

Do you guys think that Airbus was involved in this deal in some sort of way?

Drew
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EFHK
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Tue May 15, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting Ravel (Thread starter):
LGA and LGB?

LGC and LGD are the planes AY still owns. LGA and LGB are leased from BBAM (Babcock&Brown Aircraft Management)and LGE, LGF and LGG are leased from Boeing Capital Corp.
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Tue May 15, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting KL808 (Reply 9):
Do you guys think that Airbus was involved in this deal in some sort of way?

You mean Airbus buying the MD11 from AY at an inflated price and then selling them to SU for the normal price? I don't think so. The MD11 is quite popular (for freighter conversions), so there's not really a need to do this.

IMO it's much more likely that Airbus gave AY a very good deal on the A330/340/350 order.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting Ravel (Thread starter):
Aeroflot already operates DC-10 freighters, are this planes going to be in PAX use or converted to freighters?

Aeroflot has been planning for a while to return the DC-10s as part of the planned modernization of it's fleet. In their place, as SU expands their cargo operations, 6 or 7 MD-11Fs would be purchased.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
That would be right. IIRC as part of the 787 deal Boeing was to supply 6 MD-11Fs as part of the package but since the deal did not progress on time SU missed out on 3 and had to pay considerably higher lease rates on the 3 they got. The other 3 went to TAM. So SU still has a need for MD-11Fs.

 checkmark 

Aeroflot777
 
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 12:06 am

For those of you that LUV the MD-11, a trip to Anchorage is a must for you. At peal times there are normally 15 or more DAC heavies on the ground, I never saw this many MD-11s on the DAC flight ramp in Long Beach.

Michael
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ltbewr
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 12):
Aeroflot has been planning for a while to return the DC-10s as part of the planned modernization of it's fleet. In their place, as SU expands their cargo operations, 6 or 7 MD-11Fs would be purchased

Must be that MD's are the only a/c's that are tough enough for Aeroflot. At least these will go to a place where they will be well used and help out Boeing get the deal with other and new a/c's done with Aeroflot.
 
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
I am flying Finnair when I go to BKK in October - desperate to fly the MD11 before they are retired.

You'll enjoy it... I flew it last month - SIN-BKK-HEL.

The cabin is 10 abreast at the rear, and 9 abreast Y in front of it - so aim for one of those seats.

I was in 1L in J, so I can't say what the flight down the back was like... the Asian crew was patchy, no-one greeted us at the door, but the Finnish crew were very good.

Main thing was it was a great ride! Check out the Safety Card - the doors operate different to anything I've ever seen!
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 2:06 am

I flew Finnair's MD-11s back in 1999 from YYZ to HEL and return. I really liked the aircraft. I found it to be very comfortable and I enjoyed it very much! I'm sad to see them go from AY's fleet, but the "Bus" probably makes more sense from a business point of view. I'm sure Finnair has very smart and competent staff and their decision will benefit Finnair overall. From a "plane lover's" point of view, that's just too bad, but hey, we still have lots of photos to remind ourserlves of the good "old days" of the MD11, especially the "Moomin" paint scheme...


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Cheers,

Vio
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donzilasse
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 2:25 am

The three MD 11,s with TAM will go to Aeroflot as cargo aircrafts after that TAM takes delivery of the 773,s 2008.
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 2:52 am

Just wondering - if the MD11 is so revered as a freighter why doesn't Finnair convert them to freighters and use them  scratchchin 
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting Vio (Reply 16):

Hi Vio,
The one with the Muumi livery is a DC-10-30 as you probably have noticed. The first in AY colors was introduced in 1975 and when the last MD11 will eventually retire in 2010 a 35 year long era of threeholers in Finland is over..

[Edited 2007-05-15 21:16:05]
 
OceansWorld
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting Donzilasse (Reply 17):
The three MD 11,s with TAM will go to Aeroflot as cargo aircrafts after that TAM takes delivery of the 773,s 2008.

Aeroflot should receive 2 MD11's this year, former Varig machines PP-VQF/H. They are also destined to get PT-MSH/J from TAM when their lease finnishes in 2009.

Source
 
jabar
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 4:35 am

I fly JFK-HEL in J (with the updated cabin) a few times a year and I must admit that the ride in the MD-11 is one of the best I know.... and I've flown many heavies out there with the exception of the 773 or some Russian made birds (IL-96)

Not being an expert in aircraft design, I've always wondered what makes the ride in the MD so appealing. Maybe someone can shed some expert view on that.... or maybe it's just a question of pure personal taste.

Regardless, I will miss them.  Sad
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting Jabar (Reply 21):
Maybe someone can shed some expert view on that....

I'll shed you a light on that... After 12 flights on Charlie and Delta, I'm glad to see them go. Big grin
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
davidkunzVIE
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 4:45 am

By the way, anyone agree that OH-LGB is the best rego for an M11?
DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
 
EFHK
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 23):
By the way, anyone agree that OH-LGB is the best rego for an M11?

Haha, I must! Big grin Maybe it will be the last one to fly for AY...  stirthepot 
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a380us
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting PM (Reply 3):

Not if you're back in Y where they have something like fourteen-abreast!

thats not possible because FAA regulations rewuire you to be within 3 seats of an aisle and that would mean the highest could be 11 across
www.JandACosmetics.com
 
ATCGOD
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
Not if you're back in Y where they have something like fourteen-abreast! Wink



Quoting A380US (Reply 25):

thats not possible because FAA regulations rewuire you to be within 3 seats of an aisle and that would mean the highest could be 11 across

I think he was joking, as you might notice from the wink behind his remark.
 
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Vio
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 5:50 am

Quoting Saleya22R (Reply 19):
Hi Vio,
The one with the Muumi livery is a DC-10-30 as you probably have noticed. The first in AY colors was introduced in 1975 and when the last MD11 will eventually retire in 2010 a 35 year long era of threeholers in Finland is over..

Oh wow, I just searched "Moomin" on the search tool bar and the DC10 came up first. I just assumed that it was the MD11 without even looking at the big picture. LOL... but Finnair did have an MD-11 with the Moomin paint scheme, right? (see below)


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[Edited 2007-05-15 22:51:30]
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EFHK
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Vio (Reply 27):
Finnair did have an MD-11 with the Moomin paint scheme, right?

Yes, and also last summer 2 MD11s were painted with a special Moomins-livery.


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[Edited 2007-05-15 23:17:42]
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iL62M
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 7:08 am

Well, guys...
SU will recieve its first MD-11 freighter this july. Finnair's MD-11 will be converted to freighters and according to information from russian sources will be recieved by SU in 2009 in addition to already purchased (lease?).
Additionally to MDs SU will recieve Ilyushin IL-96-400 freighters (dont remember the date). IL-96-400 will be leased (confirmed) drom Ilyushin Finance group.
MD-10s will be returned. For sure.
Any other questions?
Havent seen any inforation here 'bout SU planning to add more A350 to their order (that is quite unconfirmed rumor, but ther is no smoke without fire  Wink ).
 
iL62M
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 7:09 am

Correction: not A350s but A330
 
WSOY
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 7:15 am

I'm hoping for the MD-11s to receive the new clever Aeroflot paint scheme.

Quoting IL62M (Reply 29):
Finnair's MD-11 will be converted to freighters and according to information from russian sources will be recieved by SU in 2009

The Finnair press release says:
The aircraft which are currently serving in Finnair's long-haul traffic will be transferred to the new owner in November 2008 and July 2009.


I wonder if the lie-almost-flat seats in the MD-11s show any residual value at that time?

[Edited 2007-05-16 00:16:15]
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iL62M
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting WSOY (Reply 31):
I'm hoping for the MD-11s to receive the new clever Aeroflot paint scheme.

Well i dont know. The "new" color scheme of Aeroflot Cargo you can see using the search. Have no idea of will there be a "newer" scheme, like the SU already has. Probably yes considering all SUs companies like Aeroflot Nord and Aeroflot Don are coming towards the one corporate style (Aeroflot Don recently received it's first aircraft in new "corporate" livery). But the answer "probably yes" means it is way off the 100% mark towards 0%  Smile

BTW Aeroflot is planning to receive new Sukhoi jets by the end of 2008 (it's my personal view on this subject - i dont think Sukhoi will roll out first machine by the end of this year as they state). That will be more intresting. Completely new machine...
 
ravel
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 7:46 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 14):
Must be that MD's are the only a/c's that are tough enough for Aeroflot. At least these will go to a place where they will be well used and help out Boeing get the deal with other and new a/c's done with Aeroflot.

Nicely said, especially remembering how Russians like to build planes. I believe the MD-11's will find good home in Russian hands, especially with their long experience with DC-10's.
 
iL62M
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 8:03 am

Here's a link to news in russian. http://www.avia.ru/news/?id=1179147169 You can see the "scheme" for Aeroflot cargo. The picture was taken from Aeroflot inflight magazine. The news says:

"On May, 10th the ' Aeroflot-cargo ' has got two more MD-11 (in addition to three MD-11 which delivery is planned in 2007). Two additional MD-11 were bought from Finnair, expected terms of delivery - 2009. Aircraft will be put into operation within the limits of the program on updating fleet of replacement DC-10 on the international routes connecting the Europe, Southeast Asia and the USA, the mode of operation does not provide payment of the customs duties and the VAT.
Today, on May, 14th, specifications have acted, that planes MD-11 will be converted in the cargo version in Singapore."

Tried my best to translate  Smile
Hope it helps
 
EddieDude
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
am flying Finnair when I go to BKK in October - desperate to fly the MD11 before they are retired.

I recently saw an ad in an Australian newspaper about the new AY's business class seats and something like "mix-n-match fares" that allow you to fly out of Australia in coach with a oneworld airline to an Asian city served by AY, and then flying AY in business to HEL... all in the same ticket. Have you checked if the MD-11s are being refitted with the new business class seats and the cost for these fares? (ok, so you are not going to Australia, but maybe you can fly LHR-HEL in coach with BA or AY and then HEL-BKK in business).
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
daron4000
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 11:45 am

Does anyone know if Finnair flies these birds within Europe? It would be lovely to fly on one of them this summer.
 
richie87
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 11:51 am

Yes... I do believe the MD-11's are a really classy looking aircraft... and while I have not been on any of the Finnair fleet... I had the luck to be on a Delta MD-11 in the mid 90's from PDX to BKK via Seoul and Tapei... and earlier than that, in the early 90's, a Delta L-1011 on basically the same route. I really loved the MD-11, and remember it as being very comfortable, and particularly fast east-bound on the return. That's the only trip I did on a MD-11, and remember it fondly, actually.

I'm glad that there will be quite a few flying around in various configurations for some time to come....
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 12:21 pm

The birds should look outstanding if they are painted in the SU colors.

Aeroflot777
 
Finnaviation
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 12:44 pm

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 36):
Does anyone know if Finnair flies these birds within Europe? It would be lovely to fly on one of them this summer.

No. All 7 birds fly only longhauls. HEL-BKK, HEL-HKG, HEL-CAN, HEL-KIX, HEL-PEK, HEL-DEL and HEL-JFK are the routes you can fly these lovely threeholers this summer.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 12:51 pm

Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 23):
By the way, anyone agree that OH-LGB is the best rego for an M11?

Nah. OH-LGA, aka Olga, is a much better registration.  Wink
 
Super98
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 1:04 pm

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 22):

Why yes;


It's called wiingloading. That has been a common theme with Douglas Commercial ever since the DC-9.

Just enjoy my last Alaska MD-80 ride in/out of LGB tonight. Sooooo comfy in the front.

RM
 
andaman
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 2:55 pm

Quoting Finnaviation (Reply 39):
Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 36):
Does anyone know if Finnair flies these birds within Europe? It would be lovely to fly on one of them this summer.



Quoting Finnaviation (Reply 39):

No. All 7 birds fly only longhauls. HEL-BKK, HEL-HKG, HEL-CAN, HEL-KIX, HEL-PEK, HEL-DEL and HEL-JFK are the routes you can fly these lovely threeholers this summer.

Occasionally they have used MD-11 in European and even in domestic service. In once flew it HEL-STN.
But, it happens rarely nowadays and as said above, hardly next summer.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
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LTU932
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting Ka (Reply 8):
Landings on RWY16 are allowed and done, though due to the RWY crossing 16/28 it increases complexity and thus the possibility of runway incursions. So landings on RWY16 are usually only conducted in less traffic or for operational reasons.

Sorry for being OT as well, but regarding landings on RW16 at ZRH, isn't there also the airspace problem that is preventing more frequent landings there? AFAIK, people say that part of the approach path goes through German airspace and due to this, landings on 16 will remain very rare until there's an agreement between the Swiss and the Germans.
 
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teme82
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 3:48 pm

This means that NTR and KIX flights are operated with A340-300 ???

I think that last routes where AY's MD-11 will fly are HEL - JFK and HEL - BKK.
Flying high and low
 
raggi
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 4:42 pm

Did Finnair announce any breakdown of their A330/A340 order? Will the A330s be 200s or 300s? Any word on engine choice? Is RR in the lead, as they have selected RR for their A350XWBs?


raggi
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teme82
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 6:36 pm

Quoting Raggi (Reply 45):
Did Finnair announce any breakdown of their A330/A340 order? Will the A330s be 200s or 300s?

I would bet A330-300 since JFK, BOM, DEL and PEK are in its range. RR is my bet for engines.
Flying high and low
 
Finnaviation
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting Teme82 (Reply 44):
This means that NTR and KIX flights are operated with A340-300 ???

Yes. NRT, BOM, PVG and NGO are operated by A340. Or should we say "downgraded".

[Edited 2007-05-16 13:00:20]
 
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teme82
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RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting Finnaviation (Reply 47):
Or should we say "downgraded"

Someone's "downgrade" is someones "upgrade"  Wink
Flying high and low
 
levg79
Posts: 918
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:59 am

RE: Finnair Sells MD-11s To Aeroflot

Wed May 16, 2007 8:49 pm

The interesting thing was that AY CEO has been noted saying that "the best airplane to replace the MD-11 is another MD-11". I wonder what happened with that statement. It's a pity that MD-11s are leaving AY fleet. Would KL be the last airline to operate MD-11 in passenger service?

Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.

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