kl911
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Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Tue May 15, 2007 11:39 pm

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusin...ews/publish/article_10010081.shtml


Ryanair is reported to have offered to sell Aer Lingus landing slots at London's Heathrow airport in a bid to win European Commission approval for a takeover of the former Irish State airline

The European Commission has until July 4th to decide on Ryanair's offer, which was made two weeks after the Aer Lingus IPO, last Octiober. The bid originally valued Aer Lingus at €1.48 billion.




Will this be enough for approval? And are BA and AF interrested in the LHR-DUB route? Guess the LHR slots will rather be used for intercontinental expansion.

KL911
 
Danny
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Tue May 15, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
Ryanair is reported to have offered to sell Aer Lingus landing slots at London's Heathrow airport in a bid to win European Commission approval for a takeover of the former Irish State airline

I don't see why this should help them. EU objections surround 95% monopoly that Ryanair would achieve in Dublin. Selling LHR slots won't change that. In fact that proves that FR real plan is to dismantle EI short haul arm and take over the traffic. Easy to give up what's not yours.
 
EI321
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Tue May 15, 2007 11:57 pm

London - Dublin is the one city pair where Ryanair & Aer Lingus have compitition from several other airlines. The main concern seems to be the monopoly that would be created on other routes. Selling the LHR slots would not change that.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Tue May 15, 2007 11:59 pm

As Danny said, it's very clear Ryanair just want to get rid of Aer Lingus. They will sell their Major slots in Europe and use the long-haul flights as an experiment for long-haul low cost travel.
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 3):
As Danny said, it's very clear Ryanair just want to get rid of Aer Lingus. They will sell their Major slots in Europe and use the long-haul flights as an experiment for long-haul low cost travel.

Do you think EI's A330's will be painted in FR livery for longhaul operations? I can see longhaul work, as with Oasis to HKG from LON. Just economy and a few business class seats. Pay for what you use, like food, drinks, bagage and IFE. If it saves me a lot I prefer to bring a book and my own sandwiches..

Same concept as FR in Europe. I never need food or drinks on a max 2 hour flight, have a book and no check-in luggage.
If that gets me 10 euro OW flights I'm more then willing to take them.

Just for tax amounts, will FR use secondary airports longhaul as well? Like STN-ACY ?



Atlantic City International Airport covers 5,000 acres and has two runways:

Runway 4/22: 6,144 x 150 ft. (1,873 x 46 m), Surface: Asphalt/Concrete
Runway 13/31: 10,000 x 150 ft. (3,048 x 46 m), Surface: Asphalt

KL911
 
EI321
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 12:43 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 4):
Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 3):
As Danny said, it's very clear Ryanair just want to get rid of Aer Lingus. They will sell their Major slots in Europe and use the long-haul flights as an experiment for long-haul low cost travel.

Do you think EI's A330's will be painted in FR livery for longhaul operations?

They cant. Its part of the agreement to privatise Aer Lingus that its identity must remain. There is also a clause that they must keep the majority of the LHR slots for a set period of years. I dont think Ryanair will get anywhere with this.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 12:46 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 5):
I dont think Ryanair will get anywhere with this.

Here's hoping, god forbid that FR gets their paws into EI!
 
Poitin
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 12:56 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 1):
Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
Ryanair is reported to have offered to sell Aer Lingus landing slots at London's Heathrow airport in a bid to win European Commission approval for a takeover of the former Irish State airline

I don't see why this should help them. EU objections surround 95% monopoly that Ryanair would achieve in Dublin. Selling LHR slots won't change that. In fact that proves that FR real plan is to dismantle EI short haul arm and take over the traffic. Easy to give up what's not yours.

While I have no doubt that FR would get rid of EI short haul, they would also have to get rid of most of the DUB slots EI has. As I remember, FR and EI have about 50% and 25% of the DUB slots, for a total of 75%. I remember seeing comments in the press months ago that they would have to limit it to about 50% to get EC approval.

As for getting rid of the EI slots at LHR, there are legal issues with it -- the Irish government has gone on record as being opposed to it and with some 25% of the stock they can block the sale.

http://www.ise.ie/app/announcementDetails.asp?ID=1309588

Gonna be an interesting July 4 in Europe this year, with lots and lots of fireworks.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
jfk777
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 2:01 am

The Irish Government considers those LHR slots to be like the family silver. They are vital to Ireland economy, as England and Ireland have huge integration.
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 2:03 am

I hope Ryanair does take over Aer Lingus.

At the end of the day Ryanair won't overprice Irish tickets, as with EU open skies.. someone else will move in.
Aer Lingus is a wannabe airline which is really only adding to congestion rather than contributing to the EU as an airline.

Ireland will gain a low cost operator as a national airline, whilst the old airline will become the largest long haul low cost in the industry.

Cheap flights for all.

So what if you have to pay for a drink and run for a seat.. when EI wants £200 for a ticket and FR wants £20.. who's complaining about running to a seat and leaving early with it !!

Who needs a national flag carrier anyway ? What do they do apart from charge more than the rest.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
The Irish Government considers those LHR slots to be like the family silver. They are vital to Ireland economy, as England and Ireland have huge integration.

Why would a government care about slots? Even if FR 'eats' EI and sells slots there will always be another carrier to fill a gap if the market is there. LHR - DUB is save and will always be flown by whatever airline.

I don't see the problem. And is DUB that busy that they have a slot system?

KL911
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
So what if you have to pay for a drink and run for a seat.. when EI wants £200 for a ticket and FR wants £20.. who's complaining about running to a seat and leaving early with it !!

Finally a normal comment about this, not influenced by national pryde, or by persons rich enough to pay the high EI fares

KL911
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
Aer Lingus is a wannabe airline which is really only adding to congestion rather than contributing to the EU as an airline.

Well, they are a wannabe airline, I'll give them that...

No alliance, very poor Frequent Flyer programme...

The only redeeming factor is their long haul, which is up there with any airline in Y and poor in J.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
Ireland will gain a low cost operator as a national airline, whilst the old airline will become the largest long haul low cost in the industry.

That would be ideal - Ryanair short haul (hell, rebrand as Aer Lingus!) and with the cost base Ryanair has, Aer Lingus becoming a true player long haul for once...

Though, saying that on the streets of Ireland would have me lynched. The people here are very fierce about Aer Lingus and loathe Ryanair... while at the same time giving most of their business to Ryanair! It's a weird one...
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 2:15 am

Dublin had 21.4 million passengers last year -- More than four times the population of Ireland.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 11):
Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
So what if you have to pay for a drink and run for a seat.. when EI wants £200 for a ticket and FR wants £20.. who's complaining about running to a seat and leaving early with it !!

Finally a normal comment about this, not influenced by national pryde, or by persons rich enough to pay the high EI fares

I just booked mid July, Aer Lingus LHR-DUB return for £49 in mid July. The highest Aer Lingus fare that day was £79. I wouldn't call that overpriced or expensive.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 13):
I just booked mid July, Aer Lingus LHR-DUB return for £49 in mid July. The highest Aer Lingus fare that day was £79. I wouldn't call that overpriced or expensive.

Try a different city pair... lowest I could get for August on DUB-VIE-DUB was € 220.00.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 14):
Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 13):
I just booked mid July, Aer Lingus LHR-DUB return for £49 in mid July. The highest Aer Lingus fare that day was £79. I wouldn't call that overpriced or expensive.

Try a different city pair... lowest I could get for August on DUB-VIE-DUB was € 220.00.

Mid July again, DUB-MAD-DUB €103 incl. taxes and charges.
Mid August, DUB-AMS-DUB €120 incl. taxes and charges.
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 13):
I just booked mid July, Aer Lingus LHR-DUB return for £49 in mid July. The highest Aer Lingus fare that day was £79. I wouldn't call that overpriced or expensive.

17 Jul LGW - DUB 18 JUL DUB-LGW with FR. 20 GBP incl tax..... EI is 150% more expensive..


KL911
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 15):
Mid July again, DUB-MAD-DUB €103 incl. taxes and charges.
Mid August, DUB-AMS-DUB €120 incl. taxes and charges.

I understand you love EI - I didn't mean to imply they were expensive. I was just pointing out that not all the air fares are as cheap as your original example. Just trying to be balanced  Smile
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
David_itl
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 16):
17 Jul LGW - DUB 18 JUL DUB-LGW with FR. 20 GBP incl tax..... EI is 150% more expensive

Ryanair must have lots of unsold seats then!
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 2:51 am

Fair enough, there is no doubting Ryanair is cheap. I just dont get the "Aer Lingus is so overpriced and the service is not worth it" with £79 being the highest fare for mid July and £40 being the lowest I dont understand why people refer to Aer Lingus as if the airline hasn't changed since the 1980s!
Fares are lower, service is better and I still fly them like 8.6 million other people do not because Aer Lingus is Irish and we feel we have too but because they are doing something right.

I understand what you mean ClassicLover, this site is all about different views and sides to the story. We could do with a few people like this on the Irish thread some more, just dont get too out of hand we have already had one warning!

[Edited 2007-05-15 19:54:04]
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 3:02 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 19):
Fares are lower, service is better and I still fly them like 8.6 million other people do not because Aer Lingus is Irish and we feel we have too but because they are doing something right.

I fly them all the time as well - usually to LHR to connect to BA elsewhere in Europe (as they have Club and I'm a slave to my QF programme!)  Smile

I've only flown Ryanair for business because our company has us going to places like Leeds Bradford and we don't have any other choice.

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 19):
I understand what you mean ClassicLover, this site is all about different views and sides to the story. We could do with a few people like this on the Irish thread some more, just dont get too out of hand we have already had one warning!

Whenever I posted on the Irish threads I didn't get much response, found it to be too cliquey for my liking to be honest.

Anyway, I back on topic, I don't think the EC will approve anything to do with the Ryanair offer. I don't see why trading off Heathrow slots would have anything to do with the takeover.

As far as I was aware, the Ryanair takeover was a non-starter due to the people who hold shared and not selling... is there more to this than I know?
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 3:09 am

I doubt selling off LHR slots would help FR and its takeover attempt in anyway unless FR plan in selling some of it's own slots somewhere, that may go down well but I doubt Ryanair would do anything like that!

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 20):
As far as I was aware, the Ryanair takeover was a non-starter due to the people who hold shared and not selling... is there more to this than I know?

Even if they do get the go ahead it would be very difficult but not impossible for FR to get the 50.1% they need.
 
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OA260
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 16):
17 Jul LGW - DUB 18 JUL DUB-LGW with FR. 20 GBP incl tax..... EI is 150% more expensive..

EI do not fly to LGW!! Please when comparing do like for like as its misleading. I am by no means a fan of EI. I would not fly with them long haul but their EU services are fine. Prices are good if you book early. July and Aug is peak . Many times I have tried to book clients on flights and on peak dates and late notice there is not that much between them.

20 JULY 2007 DUB TO AGP 27 JULY 2007 AGP DUB FR EUR 271.79 EI EUR 235.79

This thing about FR being cheaper is a myth. Its 50/50 sometimes FR are cheaper and sometimes EI are cheaper.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 3:20 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
I would not fly with them long haul but their EU services are fine

Not even on the new A330s, think Qatar Airways economy class but green  Wink
 
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OA260
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 23):
Not even on the new A330s, think Qatar Airways economy class but green

Are you on drugs !!! LOL.....QR Y class have you seen what they offer lately ??? LOL....
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 23):
Not even on the new A330s, think Qatar Airways economy class but green

Are you out of your head? QR is one of the best carriers around at the moment for comfort and style. Together with EK and EY IMO.

KL911
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 3:41 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 25):
Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 23):
Not even on the new A330s, think Qatar Airways economy class but green

Are you out of your head? QR is one of the best carriers around at the moment for comfort and style. Together with EK and EY IMO.

Two new A330s will arrive within the month with new lie flat angled seats in Premier. The whole aircraft will be fitted out with a new Panasonic IFE system rumoured to be AVOD and the seats in economy a similar model from RECARO that QR have.
 
Poitin
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 3:47 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 10):
Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
The Irish Government considers those LHR slots to be like the family silver. They are vital to Ireland economy, as England and Ireland have huge integration.

Why would a government care about slots? Even if FR 'eats' EI and sells slots there will always be another carrier to fill a gap if the market is there. LHR - DUB is save and will always be flown by whatever airline.

The issue is that they do care. Vehemently. It may or may not make sense to you or anyone else, but JFK777 is absolutely correct. FR will not be allowed to sell those slots off except to an airline which MUST keep the city pairs with LHR. Go read the ISE announcement referenced below:

http://www.ise.ie/app/announcementDetails.asp?ID=1309588
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
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OA260
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 26):
The whole aircraft will be fitted out with a new Panasonic IFE system rumoured to be AVOD and the seats in economy a similar model from RECARO that QR have.

When EI have PTV's in all AC in all classes coupled with the upgraded Y class catering similar to EY and QR then I will take a trip on them. At the moment I couldnt stand 7 or 8 hours in cattle class on EI . The only way Id fly EI would be in J class at the moment. The seats have only been recovered not new seats. I await photos of the new AC in Y and J before I will be convinced. Shamrock I challenge you to do a TR on the new AC LOL....  Smile
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 3:55 am

Lets just hope EI prove it to us on their website not just tiny pics on their website of poor old EI-SHN!

Quoting OA260 (Reply 28):
Shamrock I challenge you to do a TR on the new AC LOL....

Well I have been saving some money and the summer is upon us Big grin
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 19):
Fares are lower, service is better and I still fly them like 8.6 million other people do not because Aer Lingus is Irish and we feel we have too but because they are doing something right.

RyanAir is Irish and 10x bigger ... which one is doing more "right" of the two.

At the end of the day Aer Lingus is a flag carrier, over staffed, underworked, inefficient.
Sell out to Ryanair, become a massive EU long haul budget carrier in an oken sky EU and let RyanAir make money on the irish routes, by selling for half the fare and twice the frequency.,.. everyones laughing and Ireland still has a national airline... 10x bigger than the one it has now, and maybe Europes first true long haul "European" airline not one of the other nationalistic airlines.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 30):
Sell out to Ryanair, become a massive EU long haul budget carrier in an oken sky EU and let RyanAir make money on the irish routes, by selling for half the fare and twice the frequency.,.. everyones laughing and Ireland still has a national airline... 10x bigger than the one it has now, and maybe Europes first true long haul "European" airline not one of the other nationalistic airlines.

Can't argue with that at all.  thumbsup   thumbsup   yes 
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
Rivet42
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 30):
Europes first true long haul "European" airline not one of the other nationalistic airlines.

Have you not heard of a company called Virgin Atlantic Airways....?
I travel, therefore I am.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting Rivet42 (Reply 32):
Have you not heard of a company called Virgin Atlantic Airways....?

I don't think they fly intra europe short haul on anything like Ryanair's scale, which I think was his point...
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 33):
I don't think they fly intra europe short haul on anything like Ryanair's scale

Or at all.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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OA260
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 34):
Or at all.

Hey Pe@rson hope all is well with you !!! Knew you would be on a FR thread sometime lol....

VS only ever did one route from my knowledge and it was LHR to ATH with an A320 as I flew on it years ago. It was actually a good service but after a while they gave it up.
 
vv701
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 9):
Who needs a national flag carrier anyway ? What do they do apart from charge more than the rest.

Hyperbole or substance?

I've just checked the EI web site. I chose 22 May (a week today) for my DUB-LHR flight. Price? 1 Euro (but 39 Euros if I had selected 20 May, 29 Euros on 21 May, 1 Euro on 23 May and 10 Euro on 24 May).

Return fare the following week if I took the 22 May fare? 39 Euro on 27 May, 19 Euro on 28 May, and 1 Euro on 29, 30 or 31 May. So DUB-LHR-DUB for 2 Euros! More than the rest? I do not think so. Strikes me that Ryanair want to get rid of some very tough price competition.
 
EI564
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 8:50 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 30):
At the end of the day Aer Lingus is a flag carrier, over staffed, underworked, inefficient.

Hmm. How in the world does EI compete with FR considering all the numerous advantages you seem to think it has?

Just because FR is bigger than EI on a European scale, it must be better?

Why should FR half its fares if its main competitor dissappears from Ireland? You think its shareholders would be happy at it throwing away profits? (OTOH I've heard people say it will triple its fares also, which is rather stupid too I think).

With less competition, it will increase its yield. If another airline tries to take advantage of this yield increase and starts a few services, it will drive the airline out in a price war like it has done to Easyjet, bmibaby, Go etc (prices will be cheap on a few routes for a brief time while this war goes on). And then prices will increase again.

If i'm wrong, i'd love to know what i'm missing here.  Smile
 
RonBurgundy
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 5:40 pm

Have to agree with Ei564.

When easyJet took over Go, the competition on the BFS-Scottish routes stopped overnight. You used to be able to travel BFS-GLA/EDI for something like £0.01 plus taxes, having a choice of airlines. After the take-over (or merger), the frequencies reduced and the prices went up, as EZY needed the 'spare capacity' aircraft elsewhere.

A Ryanair take-over of Aer Lingus cannot be in the best interests of the consumer, even from the point of view of choice, never mind competition.
 
jwmd123
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 7:32 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 30):
At the end of the day Aer Lingus is a flag carrier, over staffed, underworked, inefficient.
Sell out to Ryanair, become a massive EU long haul budget carrier in an oken sky EU and let RyanAir make money on the irish routes, by selling for half the fare and twice the frequency.,.. everyones laughing and Ireland still has a national airline... 10x bigger than the one it has now, and maybe Europes first true long haul "European" airline not one of the other nationalistic airlines.

I think you will find that on short haul EI are second to FR on costs (not sure of the source but has been quoted many times in the irish press)

Staff levels have been reduced drastically over the past number of years, EI are expanding and bringing in new staff on new contracts and lower salaries and the aircraft utilisation is up their with the best of them with long haul doing nearly 13.6 hours and short haul doing 9.9 hours (source EI annual report).

Look at it this way, if FR were able to take over EI, they would on some routes control 100% of the market. Do you honestly believe that they will still of E0.99 plus taxes? Why should they. At the end of the day, it's 'bums on seats' and if FR knew that they had the customers to fill the planes, they would charge accordingly.
 
flyingchoirboy
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 10:37 pm

Why exactly does FR have slots at LHR? They have never served LHR and will probably never do so due to it's high operating costs.

Thanks,
Scott
 
rineanna
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting Flyingchoirboy (Reply 40):
Why exactly does FR have slots at LHR?

It doesn't, Aer Lingus does. If the takeover goes through then they'll have control over EI's slots there.
 
Poitin
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 11:05 pm

Quoting JWMD123 (Reply 39):
Look at it this way, if FR were able to take over EI, they would on some routes control 100% of the market. Do you honestly believe that they will still of E0.99 plus taxes? Why should they. At the end of the day, it's 'bums on seats' and if FR knew that they had the customers to fill the planes, they would charge accordingly.

I think the issue of LHR slots should FR take over EI is moot. There are only 12 or 13 and in the end don't make that much difference. Of much greater importance is what the EC would demand of FR should they take over EI with regard to DUB slots. FR may very well have to give up a large number. Should that happen, other European LCCs might start service to DUB. At least that would be the EC's thinking.

And even if you see FR take over EI, there would be a EI short haul. That would be one of the conditions, I am sure, and one MOL has already promised. Of course, you might see the EI short haul done on wet leased FR aircraft, but they would be EI flights. Given that, there probably would be EI service between DUB and LHR.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Wed May 16, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 30):
At the end of the day Aer Lingus is a flag carrier, over staffed, underworked, inefficient.

As far as I know FR carries the Irish flag on all of it's planes which makes it a flag carrier..  Smile



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KL911
 
Humberside
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Thu May 17, 2007 2:50 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 42):
I think the issue of LHR slots should FR take over EI is moot. There are only 12 or 13 and in the end don't make that much difference.

They make a huge difference to EI's largest shareholder (the Irish Government). The EU can make all the decisions they want to but the Irish government, as a shareholder that cannot be compulsory bought out (due to the size of its shareholding), can still block the sale of LHR slots
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Poitin
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Thu May 17, 2007 3:54 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 43):
As far as I know FR carries the Irish flag on all of it's planes which makes it a flag carrier.. Smile



Quoting Humberside (Reply 44):
Quoting Poitin (Reply 42):
I think the issue of LHR slots should FR take over EI is moot. There are only 12 or 13 and in the end don't make that much difference.

They make a huge difference to EI's largest shareholder (the Irish Government). The EU can make all the decisions they want to but the Irish government, as a shareholder that cannot be compulsory bought out (due to the size of its shareholding), can still block the sale of LHR slots

Oh, you are absolutely right about the Irish government going ballistic over the LHR slots. I never doubted that. My point is that the DUB slots a combined FR/EI would have to give up would really hurt.

And as for the Irish government blocking the sale, they only have 25% of the stock. My reading of the charter is a 50%+ vote of the shareholders would be needed, and that is all. This is not to say that the Irish government might find other ways of blocking the sale of the slots, and I would bet that they do. In the end, those slots will not be sold, as you suggest, and I think MOL knows that, so he made the offer knowing that it would not happen. As for the DUB slots, that is a different story.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
Humberside
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Thu May 17, 2007 5:33 am

I thought one of the reasons for the Irish Government retaining its stake in EI was the LHR slots, so I guess there is something in place that allows the Irish Government to veto any slot sale?

As for DUB, how congested is it - could a new carrier aquire slots if they wanted to without EI/FR giving any of their slots? But to be totally honest would any carrier want the slots, since FR/EI would still be a very formidable competitor
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EI564
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Thu May 17, 2007 6:20 am

I read in one of the Irish daily papers that the government just needs 30% of the shareholders to block the sale of any LHR slots. Interesting.

They also say that EI/FR controls around 70% to 75% of the market, so sounds like FR would have to give up a lot of slots to give another airline a fair chance. And no idea what airline could possibly replace all those lost services. You'll need a lot more than a few European LCCs (that would dare take on FR on its home turf).

As far as I know, DUB is quite congested at peak times but slots can be got quite freely at most times of the day. So i'm not sure how the whole "selling DUB" slots would work. FR could give up a slot at a peak time but just start flying a couple hours later when there are slots available.

The whole merger thing seems impossible because FR and EI dominate so much at the moment.
 
Poitin
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Thu May 17, 2007 6:44 am

Quoting EI564 (Reply 47):
I read in one of the Irish daily papers that the government just needs 30% of the shareholders to block the sale of any LHR slots. Interesting.

Irish Stock law is not my strong point, but I believe that a minority interest (30%) can block an action that would hurt it. This is possibly what the paper is talking about. I am sure MOL knows that, and as I said, may be the reason he made the offer, knowing that the Irish government would never permit it. The Aer Lingus articles of incorporation do clearly call out a simple majority would be required in a special stock holders meeting.

Even if a simple majority is all that is needed, be assured that the Irish government would find a way to block it.

Quoting EI564 (Reply 47):
They also say that EI/FR controls around 70% to 75% of the market, so sounds like FR would have to give up a lot of slots to give another airline a fair chance.

Market? What market? Ireland a market? More like a corner candy store. However, MOL has pissed off enough people that the EC would most likely require EI/FR to give up about 1/3 of their total DUB slots. They would have about 75%of the slots at this time. The question I ask is who would want them? I really don't see there much growth in the "Irish Market"

Quoting Humberside (Reply 46):
I thought one of the reasons for the Irish Government retaining its stake in EI was the LHR slots, so I guess there is something in place that allows the Irish Government to veto any slot sale?

The Irish government does not have a veto, but rest assured that they will find a way.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 46):
As for DUB, how congested is it - could a new carrier aquire slots if they wanted to without EI/FR giving any of their slots? But to be totally honest would any carrier want the slots, since FR/EI would still be a very formidable competitor

Bingo! Give Humberside the cupie doll -- he hit the bullseye.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
Toulouse
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RE: Ryanair To Sell Aer Lingus Slots At LHR / DUB

Thu May 17, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 30):
RyanAir is Irish and 10x bigger ... which one is doing more "right" of the two.

At the end of the day Aer Lingus is a flag carrier, over staffed, underworked, inefficient.
Sell out to Ryanair, become a massive EU long haul budget carrier in an oken sky EU and let RyanAir make money on the irish routes, by selling for half the fare and twice the frequency.,.. everyones laughing and Ireland still has a national airline... 10x bigger than the one it has now, and maybe Europes first true long haul "European" airline not one of the other nationalistic airlines.

No way! I, like many, can't stand Ryanair. And I admit Ryanair attracts huge numbers of pax, mas an incredible business model, and has done alot in bringing down air fares throughout Europe for everyone. But I know of no other "major" airline in Europe for which I hear so many people express the same opinion as I have: and that is "no way will I fly FR".
Anyway, we need competition. FR taking over will create an completely unfair monopoly in the Irish market.

Quoting RonBurgundy (Reply 38):
A Ryanair take-over of Aer Lingus cannot be in the best interests of the consumer, even from the point of view of choice, never mind competition.

Eaxtly!

Quoting Ei564 (Reply 37):
Hmm. How in the world does EI compete with FR considering all the numerous advantages you seem to think it has?

Well said.
Long live Aer Lingus!