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clickhappy
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Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 2:07 pm

Fresh news off the Boeing vine.

COPENHAGEN, Denmark -- The top executive of the first airline that will operate The Boeing Co.'s 787 said he has been assured the Dreamliner is on track to arrive on time.

Also looks like the first 6 will be, in good old American fashion, overweight.

But Boeing said it has made progress, and the first plane delivered to All Nippon Airways will meet the promised weight.

That will be the seventh plane assembled. The first six test planes will all be overweight, according to Boeing.


For all those hoping for bad news on the 787 program, after all, misery loves company, sorry!

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/315831_air16.html
 
georgebush
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 2:48 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
For all those hoping for bad news on the 787 program, after all, misery loves company, sorry!

Lmao! Great to hear! Its Boeing I wouldnt expect any less than that!
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 3:53 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
Also looks like the first 6 will be, in good old American fashion, overweight.

But Boeing said it has made progress, and the first plane delivered to All Nippon Airways will meet the promised weight.

That will be the seventh plane assembled. The first six test planes will all be overweight, according to Boeing.

So will the first 6 planes be re-fitted and sold on to airlines when the development programme is done?
 
Joni
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 4:17 pm

Good to hear Boeing and Mitsubishi didn't drop the ball on the B787 like Airbus did with A380.

I was wondering too, what they'll do with the first 6 planes though - sell them at a discount or contractual weight penalties?
 
WINGS
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 4:30 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):

COPENHAGEN, Denmark -- The top executive of the first airline that will operate The Boeing Co.'s 787 said he has been assured the Dreamliner is on track to arrive on time.

This is wonderful news. Congratulations to Boeing. They have put in the effort, now they are ready to take full advantage of it.  Smile

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
For all those hoping for bad news on the 787 program, after all, misery loves company, sorry!

Why would anyone wish that? Only if one is not a true aviation enthusiast.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 4:43 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
So will the first 6 planes be re-fitted and sold on to airlines when the development programme is done?

Boeing and UA went through several rounds of negotiations over the years on the possible sale of the first 777, which was very nearly to UA spec (UA having been the launch customer) but they never agreed on a price. CX finally bought it in 2000.

Of the six early 787s, two would normally be destroyed/exhausted in testing. It would seem logical to sell the remaining four to bizjet customers. Because they fly fewer hours than commercial operators, the weight penalty matters less. Also, bizjet customers want immediate delivery and are often willing to compromise to get it. Even overweight, a 787-8 in a bizjet configuration probably has sufficient range to connect any two airports.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 10:03 pm

So the first four/six frames were not planned to be delivered to existing customers?
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
So the first four/six frames were not planned to be delivered to existing customers?

One of the early frames will end up with a broken wing. Another will be subjected to repetitive stresses to simulate decades worth of cycles. Neither of those two could ever have been planned for customer delivery. The others probably are or were planned for customer delivery.
 
broke
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 10:48 pm

The aircraft Boeing is talking about are not the structural test specimens or "Iron Birds". The aircraft in question are complete aircraft and will be involved in the flight test program. These aircraft are usually already allocated to customers, except for the prototype. The weight issue is usually only a few percent above the target, but Boeing will have to discuss the weight problem with those customers and they will have to decide whether they want the airplanes or not. Often, not accepting the airplane will result in a delay in the delivery of the first airplane to the operator and then it is a matter of how much hoopla they have already put into their marketing as to whether there is problem.
I was in Singapore last year and Singapore Airlines had a significant advertising campaign already in place announcing the beginning of A380 service, so the delay affected their marketing and operational plan a lot. They then made a shift to the new interiors in their 777-300ER's, which they were going to get in November, 2006.
All aircraft manufacturers have a weight problem with their first airplanes and they learn how to get down to the target empty weight as they build them.
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 10:52 pm

Excellent news. I can't wait to hop on one of these, now if only AA would get their rear ends in order and order a 100 or so...

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
For all those hoping for bad news on the 787 program, after all, misery loves company, sorry!



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 1):
Lmao! Great to hear!

Very mature  Yeah sure Why the need to try and sour really good news with some infantile jab?
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
wcs
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
So will the first 6 planes be re-fitted and sold on to airlines when the development programme is done?

Well, depending where the overweight is, it could maybe be impossible to re-fit. As others said, Biz Jets are an option, just like an as planned delivery, with a limited compensation.

I'm not worry at all for Boeing and these birds. By the way, good news to see the program on track!
FLY SKYTEAM JETS
 
georgebush
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 9):
Very mature Why the need to try and sour really good news with some infantile jab?

Read before you post. That wasnt sarcasm.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
LY4XELD
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 11:28 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 7):
One of the early frames will end up with a broken wing. Another will be subjected to repetitive stresses to simulate decades worth of cycles. Neither of those two could ever have been planned for customer delivery. The others probably are or were planned for customer delivery.

Not true. There are seperate frames for structural tests.
That's why we're here.
 
BR076
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
The top executive of the first airline that will operate The Boeing Co.'s 787 said he has been assured the Dreamliner is on track to arrive on time.

Good news, but how can they be 100% sure? it has not flown a single mile yet.
ú
 
EA772LR
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 11:31 pm

Couldn't be better news. It's too bad the 787 won't be ready for Paris! BTW, have the Trent 1000's been tested on-wing yet? I know RR has been testing them, but i'm unaware if they've been put on a wing yet.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
Theoden
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 11:38 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
For all those hoping for bad news on the 787 program, after all, misery loves company, sorry!

I wonder what percentage of A fans really want to see the 787 have problems. I suspect the majority want the 787 to be successful but, being A fans, just want a competing Airbus product to be more successful. Thats the way I feel about the A350, at least.

I really hope they can do the roll out on 07/08/07. And then later, although its not worth the risk, it would be cool if they could do a barrel roll like with the 707 when it came out.

Theoden
Fear no darkness!
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 12):
There are seperate frames for structural tests.

What do you mean by separate?

Quoting BR076 (Reply 13):
Good news, but how can they be 100% sure? it has not flown a single mile yet.

He didn't say that it would be on time. He said it's on track to be on time.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting BR076 (Reply 13):
Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
The top executive of the first airline that will operate The Boeing Co.'s 787 said he has been assured the Dreamliner is on track to arrive on time.

Good news, but how can they be 100% sure? it has not flown a single mile yet.

Well, the wiring harness works, haha.

They've modeled the entire thing on the computer, anticipated all possible flaws, tested individual parts, they can be pretty certain, not entirely certain, but if something goes wrong flying it, it'll surprise a heck of a lot of very smart people.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Wed May 16, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting Theoden (Reply 15):
I wonder what percentage of A fans really want to see the 787 have problems.

Probably more then we'd all like to think...

Quoting Theoden (Reply 15):
I suspect the majority want the 787 to be successful

True, thankfully.

Quoting Theoden (Reply 15):
A fans, just want a competing Airbus product to be more successful

True again.

Quoting Theoden (Reply 15):
it would be cool if they could do a barrel roll like with the 707 when it came out.

A composite barrel roll?  Smile
336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
 
LY4XELD
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:13 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 16):
What do you mean by separate?

There are frames built without systems, just for the purpose of structural testing, not intended to be delivered to customers (and never were), much like other Boeing programs (and Airbus). They aren't counted as serial numbers in the manufacturing sequence.
That's why we're here.
 
jimyvr
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
COPENHAGEN, Denmark -- The top executive of the first airline that will operate The Boeing Co.'s 787 said he has been assured the Dreamliner is on track to arrive on time.

Probably Boeing trying to push sales to Star carriers as Star members were in Copenhagen for 10th anniversary celebration
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:19 am

Boeing has had a lot of the same issues as the A380 program, with regards to CAITA V4 vs. CAITA V5, yet they are on schedule and not using it as a "crutch."

CussAtItTryAgain
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 19):
There are frames built without systems, just for the purpose of structural testing,

Of course.

Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 19):
not intended to be delivered to customers (and never were), much like other Boeing programs (and Airbus).

Yes, as I wrote above.

Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 19):
They aren't counted as serial numbers in the manufacturing sequence.

So, what you seem to be saying is: The six overweight aircraft don't include these two. Ok, fine.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:29 am

Well how "overweight" is "overweight"? Last I heard it was 2%. Is that really so terrible that an airline would scrap delivery and wait?
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
Well how "overweight" is "overweight"? Last I heard it was 2%. Is that really so terrible that an airline would scrap delivery and wait?

2% is about 4800 lbs. That's the equivalent of 23 passengers. How much is it worth to be able to carry 23 more passengers on every flight for the life of the aircraft? That the seat count is limited by cabin floor area is hardly relevant because cargo pays just about as well as passengers and the 787 has ample cargo volume.
 
dambuster
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:38 am

2% overweight means potentially 2% more fuel consumption therefore higher operating costs etc... it's not that much, (for some airlines it might be...) I thought they fixed the weight problem though... correct me if I'm wrong.
 
OGGFBORefueler
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 18):
Quoting Theoden (Reply 15):
it would be cool if they could do a barrel roll like with the 707 when it came out.

A composite barrel roll?  

Sorry, but...LMAO!!!   

Aloha!
Keone

[Edited 2007-05-16 17:47:08]
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XT6Wagon
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 22):
So, what you seem to be saying is: The six overweight aircraft don't include these two. Ok, fine.

Boeing said it will be using the first 6 production frames for flight test. I also doubt any airline would turn them down. Even overweight the 787 will be far better than whatever they have so I don't see any complaints from the customers. Might be a little haggling if its not to contract, but....
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
COPENHAGEN, Denmark -- The top executive of the first airline that will operate The Boeing Co.'s 787 said he has been assured the Dreamliner is on track to arrive on time.

Much to the chagrin of Leahy, Keesje, and others, no doubt.
One Nation Under God
 
OGGFBORefueler
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 25):
2% overweight means potentially 2% more fuel consumption therefore higher operating costs etc... it's not that much, (for some airlines it might be...) I thought they fixed the weight problem though... correct me if I'm wrong.



See reply #1 (Thread Starter)

Aloha!
Keone
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SRT75
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:46 am

Quoting BR076 (Reply 13):
Good news, but how can they be 100% sure? it has not flown a single mile yet.



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 16):
He didn't say that it would be on time. He said it's on track to be on time.

Reading this post you would think it's the Gospel truth that there will never be any problems with the 787 and it will all be happy happy joy joy.

I find it odd that even the most minor setback on the 380 gets an entire post devoted to gloom and doom. Bathroom air freshener cake does not fit in A380 holder, RUMOR: SIA will cancel all orders as a result!!!!!

I hope the 787 is ON TIME and without problems, but geeze, a press release by an airline CEO that a Boing rep verbally assured him that the program was on schedule?!?!?
 
justloveplanes
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 24):
2% is about 4800 lbs. That's the equivalent of 23 passengers. How much is it worth to be able to carry 23 more passengers on every flight for the life of the aircraft? That the seat count is limited by cabin floor area is hardly relevant because cargo pays just about as well as passengers and the 787 has ample cargo volume.



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 5):
It would seem logical to sell the remaining four to bizjet customers. Because they fly fewer hours than commercial operators, the weight penalty matters less. Also, bizjet customers want immediate delivery and are often willing to compromise to get it. Even overweight, a 787-8 in a bizjet configuration probably has sufficient range to connect any two airports.

This is a compelling argument for a bizjet application. Heavily discounted to bizjet customers could pay for the 4800 lbs (a Suburban SUV) and keep those 6 out of the red at least. Be interested in the extra fuel per flight for the 4800 lbs.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 12:49 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 24):
2% is about 4800 lbs. That's the equivalent of 23 passengers. How much is it worth to be able to carry 23 more passengers on every flight for the life of the aircraft? That the seat count is limited by cabin floor area is hardly relevant because cargo pays just about as well as passengers and the 787 has ample cargo volume.



Quoting Dambuster (Reply 25):
2% overweight means potentially 2% more fuel consumption therefore higher operating costs etc... it's not that much, (for some airlines it might be...) I thought they fixed the weight problem though... correct me if I'm wrong.

And yet neither issue with the A388 has caused any of their customers to not take delivery...

Oh well. At least now we know why NH has not and will not order the A388.  Wink
 
sstsomeday
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 1:43 am

2.5 tons is nothing to sneeze at.

However, is it not typical that new A/C often come in somewhat overweight? And is it also typical that usually weight issues are resolved early on in production?

I understand that some aircraft, of course, never meet their weight targets.(DC-10?).

I wonder whether Boeing is saying that they are confident the A/C will be within its promised weight, yet over their internal weight goal?
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Areopagus
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 2:00 am

Back in July 2006, Dominic Gates wrote an article for the Seattle Times about the wing section being complete that was to be tested to destruction. But a wing will be broken on a complete airframe, too:
"This big center wing box, with determinate assembly — meaning you pre-drill all the holes before you put the structure together — all the holes lined up," Bair said. "There's not a single shim in the whole thing. It's just gorgeous stuff."

But this wing will never fly. Boeing is set to begin structural testing next month. The piece will be tested to destruction, bent until it breaks.

Bair said the purpose of the full-scale test piece is not to help design the wing — that's largely done — but to confirm the previous computer analysis and ensure the structure performs as predicted.

Boeing will also use the test wing to prove the repair methods developed for the plastic materials used in its building.

Later in the 787 certification process, sometime next year, Boeing will conduct structural tests on a full-scale, complete airframe and will bend the wings on that structure to a breaking point, too. Bair said the tests on this wing piece will minimize the chance of surprises during that test.

The piece just completed is a large portion of the wing, beginning where it joins the fuselage and stopping at about two-thirds of the span. It is about 17 feet wide and 4 feet deep at the thickest point.

 
dank
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 2:01 am

Good to see some more good news from the manufacturing side.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 33):
2.5 tons is nothing to sneeze at.

However, is it not typical that new A/C often come in somewhat overweight? And is it also typical that usually weight issues are resolved early on in production?

I understand that some aircraft, of course, never meet their weight targets.(DC-10?).

I wonder whether Boeing is saying that they are confident the A/C will be within its promised weight, yet over their internal weight goal?

It's been interesting that there hadn't been much chatter about the weight situation. But this seems to be over the promised weight (whereas the discussions in the past have suggested that they thought they were meeting promised weight, just not the garget weight), so I wonder if the next one after the first six is still over the target weight. The question that I've had is whether it is more difficult to decrease the weight in large composite frames (and whether some of the 380 weight issues are related to the use of composites). i.e. is there a bit of a pardaigm shift (God, I hate that phrase) in how traditionally one could get the weight down more easily.

Anybody know who is receiving the test frames? I'm assuming that they aren't delivered first because they will be undergoing testing and then have to be reconfigured before delivery (just like the first 380 frames to be delivered aren't any of the test frames). As I recall, Boeing isn't keeping any of the test frames.

cheers.
 
Oykie
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 21):
Boeing has had a lot of the same issues as the A380 program, with regards to CAITA V4 vs. CAITA V5, yet they are on schedule and not using it as a "crutch."

Didn't Boeing pay for the Catia V5.0 for every sub-contractor and even payed for the support? I thought I remember reading that somewhere.

Anyway. Good to hear that the 787 is on track. This will be very interesting to follow from now untill the delivery in May next year. Crossing my fingers for Boeing  crossfingers 
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 2:13 am

There were will be a more in depth update next week during Boeing's Investor Conference. They have a presentation devoted to the 787 during that conference and it will be web cast. I intend on listening in on that presentation.

[Edited 2007-05-16 19:13:41]
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 2:13 am

I wonder if the weight issue is from a desire to "overbuild" the first few components to get a "baseline" to work from and then refine the process to ensure that they meet the planned weight (from Frame 7) and then continue to reduce it over time?

Also is "promised weight" different from "guaranteed weight"? As Dank notes in Reply 35, Boeing has consistently said they would meet "guaranteed weight" even at upwards of 2.5 tons over "planned weight". If NH was always going to get Frame #7 as their first delivery, then they would/could be the same terms.
 
Rheinbote
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting Areopagus (Reply 34):
But this wing will never fly. Boeing is set to begin structural testing next month. The piece will be tested to destruction, bent until it breaks.



Quoting Areopagus (Reply 34):
Later in the 787 certification process, sometime next year, Boeing will conduct structural tests on a full-scale, complete airframe and will bend the wings on that structure to a breaking point, too.

Actually, one of the Boeing chiefs was quoted saying that they haven't yet decided whether the full-up static test article would be bent to destruction. They don't have to.

Just for clarification: Six aircraft are planned to be used for flight testing (#1 and #3-8) and two complete airframes for static and dynamic structural testing (#2 and#3).

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 36):
Didn't Boeing pay for the Catia V5.0 for every sub-contractor and even payed for the support? I thought I remember reading that somewhere.

Partners and suppliers have to pay a licencse fee for using Boeing's Global Collaboration Environment (use is mandatory). In return, Boeing is taking care that all the tools and processes involved are coherent and consistent, doing software block upgrades every now and then. I think they have to pay for their CATIA PLM suites themselves.

There's a bunch of interesting articles and podcast interviews on this available here:
http://www.designnews.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6440245

[Edited 2007-05-16 19:45:42]
 
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glideslope
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting BR076 (Reply 13):
Good news, but how can they be 100% sure? it has not flown a single mile yet.

LOL. Sour Grapes. Your just repeating what B posters were saying 2 yrs ago. Except the 380 still has no production cert.  Wink
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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glideslope
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 28):
Much to the chagrin of Leahy, Keesje, and others, no doubt.

Yes, poor Keesje. Hope he is ok.  Smile
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 21):
Boeing has had a lot of the same issues as the A380 program, with regards to CAITA V4 vs. CAITA V5, yet they are on schedule and not using it as a "crutch."

CussAtItTryAgain

I think you meant "Cuss At The Infernal Application" for CATIA.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 25):
2% overweight means potentially 2% more fuel consumption therefore higher operating costs etc... it's not that much, (for some airlines it might be...) I thought they fixed the weight problem though... correct me if I'm wron

The 787 went on a diet, AFAIK. however, I think the 2% would be most important to those airlines who would want to push the range of the aircraft towards teh edge of the payload envelpoe. The 787 is so much more effecient than the 767 is is replacing that 2% will hardly be notices, especially if this only a small proportion of a large 787 fleet.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 38):

Also is "promised weight" different from "guaranteed weight"? As Dank notes in Reply 35, Boeing has consistently said they would meet "guaranteed weight" even at upwards of 2.5 tons over "planned weight".

I think that Boeing has three weights in mind
a) What the customer will DEFINATELY get "Guarantted Weight". - large penalties for missing this
b) What the custmer MIGHT get "Promissed Weight" - small/no penalties, Boeing will be 99% sure of hitting the target, but just in case....
c) What Boeing will announce 12+ months time - think of the 77W programme - 3% just "appeared" out of nowhere!

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 39):
Actually, one of the Boeing chiefs was quoted saying that they haven't yet decided whether the full-up static test article would be bent to destruction.

I think they will test till it breaks. If they know its going to look impresive and/or outperform any wing tested so far Boeing will definately do it. It might help allay any concerns that could be put out there as to the strength/safety of the "plastic" aeroplane.

Lastly, I dont think that Boeing had ever imagined that the 787 would be so successful. The number of orders, and the damage done to Airbus' product cycle speaks for itself. Even at 600+ orders there are many more to come. European and American carriers will easily order as many more. AA, UA, DL alson could take 300 between them, then add in US, BA, LH, IB, EI, et al. Not to mention EK, EY, QR.

Im not for a minute saying that Airbus will not capture some of these orders, but you'd have to be impressed by the product Boeing is selling.

1000+ orders by 2010 would be conservative, IMHO.

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
Oykie
Posts: 1563
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 5:44 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 39):
Partners and suppliers have to pay a licencse fee for using Boeing's Global Collaboration Environment (use is mandatory). In return, Boeing is taking care that all the tools and processes involved are coherent and consistent, doing software block upgrades every now and then. I think they have to pay for their CATIA PLM suites themselves.

Thank you for your answer. Seems like Boeing knows how to run a business  Wink Sounds like a smart idea, to tell all your suppliers to buy a licence from Boeing.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
cygnuschicago
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:34 am

RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 43):
1000+ orders by 2010 would be conservative, IMHO

Yep, with AA, BA, DL and maybe UA, I expect they'll hit 1,000 orders by the end of 2008
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
pygmalion
Posts: 815
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:47 am

RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 7):
One of the early frames will end up with a broken wing. Another will be subjected to repetitive stresses to simulate decades worth of cycles. Neither of those two could ever have been planned for customer delivery. The others probably are or were planned for customer delivery.



Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 39):
Just for clarification: Six aircraft are planned to be used for flight testing (#1 and #3-8) and two complete airframes for static and dynamic structural testing (#2 and#3).

There are 8 frames fabricated... before "line 7" the first to be delivered aircraft. Frames 1-6 and a static test frame and fatigue test frame. FYI Rheinbote, the test frames are not back to back in the order... they want the test frames to be representative of normal frames and so they are interspersed in the order. The flight test aircraft will be delivered after all the test hardware is removed and interior installed

All frames manufactured with the exception of the two test frames are already sold and will be delivered to customers and are already scheduled for delivery (and listed in the order book as Firm). Boeing does not build full up prototypes.
 
sstsomeday
Posts: 821
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:32 pm

RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 35):
It's been interesting that there hadn't been much chatter about the weight situation.

Yes. I am a Boeing fan, but I'm surprised that more a-net members aren't making a meal out of this 2.5 tons. That's quite a bit of extra weight that Beoing have yet to shed, even after adding about a billion dollars to the research and development budget, did they not?
I come in peace
 
justloveplanes
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:38 am

RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 39):
Actually, one of the Boeing chiefs was quoted saying that they haven't yet decided whether the full-up static test article would be bent to destruction. They don't have to.



Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 43):
I think they will test till it breaks. If they know its going to look impresive and/or outperform any wing tested so far Boeing will definately do it. It might help allay any concerns that could be put out there as to the strength/safety of the "plastic" aeroplane.

I think they will break the wing, but not for certification if they can get by with it. They will pass the cert test then, re-examine the wing, then break is themselves for B's own proprietary research study. No use in telling the competition EXACTY how strong your wing is....let A overdesign their first one too.....

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 46):
All frames manufactured with the exception of the two test frames are already sold and will be delivered to customers and are already scheduled for delivery (and listed in the order book as Firm). Boeing does not build full up prototypes.

Ah, an insider!!! Now who might these 6 be? Can you give us a clue?
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22920
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Boeing: No Delays On 787

Thu May 17, 2007 7:53 am

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 47):
Yes. I am a Boeing fan, but I'm surprised that more a-net members aren't making a meal out of this 2.5 tons. That's quite a bit of extra weight that Beoing have yet to shed, even after adding about a billion dollars to the research and development budget, did they not?

Perhaps some are taking the higher ground and not seeking payback for all the snide comments directed at Airbus for the A388's weight problems.  crossfingers 

It is evidently a big deal, at least for NH. However, Boeing has stated they are working aggressively to get the weight down and they are totally confident that this will be complete with Frame #007 which is the first one going to NH so I guess until Boeing or NH say "oops!"...

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