DAYflyer
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Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Thu May 17, 2007 9:33 pm

Yesterday a Pinnacle airlines employee was injured at DAY. The employee has now died. Prayers out to the family. This is a real tragedy.

Link to first report: http://www.whiotv.com/news/13333823/detail.html

Link to follow up: http://www.whiotv.com/news/13336696/detail.html

How does a baggage claim person get caught in an elevator??
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Boeing7E7
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Thu May 17, 2007 10:21 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Thread starter):
How does a baggage claim person get caught in an elevator??

Elevator is an odd term for what they describe. Maybe a lift-a-loft? Crushed perhaps.
 
N766UA
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Thu May 17, 2007 10:35 pm

She musta got squashed? Good lord.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Thu May 17, 2007 11:38 pm

9E has elevators installed on a lot of their jetways that lift a cart with the gate-checked bags from the ramp to the level of the jetway, typically right by the door that goes down to the ramp but sometimes up by the terminal. Still, it would be very difficult to get caught in one of those (provided the employee wasn't doing something extremely stupid, which isn't out of the question).
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SkyexRamper
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Thu May 17, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Thread starter):
How does a baggage claim person get caught in an elevator??

I'm assuming they've got the same RJ bridges in DAY that they have at MSP where their is a lift that you slide a 2 tier cart into to bring the planeside checked bags up into the jet bridge.
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northwestair
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Thu May 17, 2007 11:45 pm

I've been telling everyone that this kind of thing was going to happen. I left 9E in OKC 3 weeks as a manager cause I was afraid something bad was going to happen in that station. When I left there were 11 employees on payroll and flights were being worked with just 3-4 employees in the entire station. That's 3-4 to work the ramp/tkt ctr/gate/bagroom. Now I work at CO for less money but I work in a safer environment
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DAYflyer
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 5):
I'm assuming they've got the same RJ bridges in DAY that they have at MSP where their is a lift that you slide a 2 tier cart into to bring the planeside checked bags up into the jet bridge.

This appears to be the case. The latest radio report on the incident indicated it involved a cart and elevator.
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DAYflyer
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 4:53 am

More details just released:

"We have some initial reports that apparently an object became lodged in (the elevator lift) and the employee in question was attempting to dislodge it," said Phil Reed, spokesperson for Pinnacle. "We are so deeply saddened by this event. It's just shocking and upsetting to us, and we want to make sure we fully understand what occurred."
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Kuna
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 5:49 am

This is a sad day indeed. Thoughts and prayers to her friends and family. Thoughts and prayers to my fellow coworkers in DAY.
Pinnacle Airlines
 
burnsie28
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
9E has elevators installed on a lot of their jetways that lift a cart with the gate-checked bags from the ramp to the level of the jetway, typically right by the door that goes down to the ramp but sometimes up by the terminal. Still, it would be very difficult to get caught in one of those (provided the employee wasn't doing something extremely stupid, which isn't out of the question).

The ones that they have in MSP are very easy to get under. Also very heavy.. if something was caught this could easily happen.

Quoting DAYflyer (Thread starter):
How does a baggage claim person get caught in an elevator??

She wasn't in baggage claim.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 7):
More details just released:

"We have some initial reports that apparently an object became lodged in (the elevator lift) and the employee in question was attempting to dislodge it," said Phil Reed, spokesperson for Pinnacle. "We are so deeply saddened by this event. It's just shocking and upsetting to us, and we want to make sure we fully understand what occurred."

Oh man, that is just awful. Can anyone provide a pic of this type of elevator? I am trying to imagine what it looks like, but I am not getting it in the head. Does it have a safety shutoff, or do they require a lockout/tagout on these elevators during troubles? What a tragedy, and hopefully something will be learned from it to prevent another tragic event like this from occuring again. My prayers are with the families and the employees of Pinnacle.
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NLINK
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 6:40 am

This is not the first time this kind of accident has happened at Pinnacle. They generally run a very dangerous operation with 3 or 4 people total for the flight. Always push push and in you get in trouble when the aircraft are late leaving. We had a FA once fall off the carry on part at the top of the jetbridge to the ramp. She hit head first and was out of work for months, when she fell we saw here hanging there upside down we thought she was dead, and of course while pinnacle management wanted all pictures of the accident sent to HDQ ASAP and they had someone out fixing the broke part on the jetbridge within hours and told us to keep quite about it.

The idea of gate checking a carryon on a RJ while using a jetbridge is crazy in the first place. There should either be more room in the airplane or require the max size bag of something that will fit. There has been numerous other injuries associated with jetbridges, RJ and "gate checked" bags" (which is the stupidest idea ever invented imho)
 
Skyway1
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 6:49 am

I've been out of the biz since January of '05 but I imagine I knew this person...RIP....
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Kuna
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting Nlink (Reply 11):
This is not the first time this kind of accident has happened at Pinnacle. They generally run a very dangerous operation with 3 or 4 people total for the flight. Always push push and in you get in trouble when the aircraft are late leaving. We had a FA once fall off the carry on part at the top of the jetbridge to the ramp. She hit head first and was out of work for months, when she fell we saw here hanging there upside down we thought she was dead, and of course while pinnacle management wanted all pictures of the accident sent to HDQ ASAP and they had someone out fixing the broke part on the jetbridge within hours and told us to keep quite about it.

The idea of gate checking a carryon on a RJ while using a jetbridge is crazy in the first place. There should either be more room in the airplane or require the max size bag of something that will fit. There has been numerous other injuries associated with jetbridges, RJ and "gate checked" bags" (which is the stupidest idea ever invented imho)

First of all I suggest this post for deletion for being distasteful in the light of what happened.
Pinnacle Airlines
 
Skyway1
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 6:56 am

BTW....when I was there the station was staffed by NWA employees....has that now been changed?
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Kuna
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Skyway1 (Reply 14):

Yes sir, Pinnacle took over I believe in October.
Pinnacle Airlines
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting Kuna (Reply 13):
Quoting Nlink (Reply 11):
This is not the first time this kind of accident has happened at Pinnacle. They generally run a very dangerous operation with 3 or 4 people total for the flight. Always push push and in you get in trouble when the aircraft are late leaving. We had a FA once fall off the carry on part at the top of the jetbridge to the ramp. She hit head first and was out of work for months, when she fell we saw here hanging there upside down we thought she was dead, and of course while pinnacle management wanted all pictures of the accident sent to HDQ ASAP and they had someone out fixing the broke part on the jetbridge within hours and told us to keep quite about it.

The idea of gate checking a carryon on a RJ while using a jetbridge is crazy in the first place. There should either be more room in the airplane or require the max size bag of something that will fit. There has been numerous other injuries associated with jetbridges, RJ and "gate checked" bags" (which is the stupidest idea ever invented imho)


First of all I suggest this post for deletion for being distasteful in the light of what happened.

I don't see what should be deleted. This guy suggests Pinnacle is dangerous, maybe if they get their act together this won't happen again.
 
Kuna
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 7:09 am

Well first I work for 9E, second I work at a station that is well established and been so for a long time. It is not uncommon to only have 4 agents working a turn flight. If you get much more than 2 or 3 on the ramp, its too congested and you end up tripping over each other. I work the morning shift, we have to kickoff flights, we work with 5 people for two flights. Thats all that is needed. Pinnacle flies RJ's and not DC-9's or larger aircraft.

Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 16):
I don't see what should be deleted. This guy suggests Pinnacle is dangerous, maybe if they get their act together this won't happen again.

The airline industry in general is dangerous, no matter how you cut it. Any job could be considered dangerous, I see by your profile your a banker. At first glance, yeah it might not be considered a dangerous job. But robberies happen, and by the recent shootings at a bank proves it. A job can be only as safe as the workers make it. It won't eliminate the dangers, but it can minimize them.
Pinnacle Airlines
 
Skyway1
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 7:16 am

Quoting Kuna (Reply 15):
Yes sir, Pinnacle took over I believe in October.

Well when I was there NWA had a small staff on shifts as well....just some food for thought...
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Kuna
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 7:18 am

Quoting Skyway1 (Reply 18):
Quoting Kuna (Reply 15):
Yes sir, Pinnacle took over I believe in October.

Well when I was there NWA had a small staff on shifts as well....just some food for thought...

Understood, Just tying to figure out why everyone assumes that the reason for the accident is because of it being short staffed. Can't it just be a freak accident?
Pinnacle Airlines
 
Skyway1
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 7:21 am

Let me clarify....I worked for C8 and not NWA. We worked Saab 340's so we usually only had 3-4 on shift...sometimes only 2. It is a freak accident but also appears to be an abusrd one....
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ROACSM9E
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 7:39 am

I think that everyone is losing sight of what really happened here... we have had a huge tragedy in our airline. We need not point fingers at the management and the way things are done. We need to remember the young life that has been lost and the remaining employees that need to go on in that station.
 
Kuna
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting ROACSM9E (Reply 21):
I think that everyone is losing sight of what really happened here... we have had a huge tragedy in our airline. We need not point fingers at the management and the way things are done. We need to remember the young life that has been lost and the remaining employees that need to go on in that station.

I agree 100%
Pinnacle Airlines
 
afrikaskyes
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 8:44 am

I use this system on a regular basis. On occasion, bags will shift out of place as the lift brings the carryons up to the jet bridge for passenger retrieval. Sometimes, a bag strap will fall loose as the lift is in operation. You can TRY and stop the lift as it is in operation, but the manufacturers (Jet Bridge) system for starting/stopping/resetting the lift is very problematic and generally useless. Basically, once you send the cart up, there is no way to stop it. You can do two things at this point. First, you can allow the lift to continue with the bag or strap dangling from the cart, but this most often will jam the lift and destroy the bag. It will also halt the lift and it will take several minutes to 'un jam' it. Imagine the passengers having to wait for this. They get mad as hell that they weren't allow to take their bottled water thru checkpoint. Just think how angry they would get having to wait 15 mintues for their carryons That leaves your last and really only logical option. You as quick and as safe as possible, shove the bag or the offending strap back into the cart as the lift is in operation. Dangerous? You bet. Which is why it should never be done.

In my opinion, the lift is a joke. It is very quirky to use. There are 4 of these lifts available at our airport and we are the only airline to utilize it. The alternative to the elevator lift, is to lift 20+ carryons over your head up onto the jet bridge. It would be nice if passengers took fewer carryons, but then again, we would lose them if checked.
 
toltommy
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 9:14 am

Quoting Northwestair (Reply 5):
I've been telling everyone that this kind of thing was going to happen. I left 9E in OKC 3 weeks as a manager cause I was afraid something bad was going to happen in that station. When I left there were 11 employees on payroll and flights were being worked with just 3-4 employees in the entire station. That's 3-4 to work the ramp/tkt ctr/gate/bagroom. Now I work at CO for less money but I work in a safer environment

Playing devils advocate, let me ask you a few questions.....

1. You were a 9E mgr in OKC. Because of your screen name, I have to ask, were you NWA before the changeover? If so, what was the NWA staffing for a CRJ?

2. How did your leaving the station do anything to prevent an accident in the future? Or did you just leave to protect yourself, rather than bring the problems you saw to the appropriate state or federal agency?

3. How many CO employees work a E145 flight? Whats the difference that makes it that much safer? At least share the info, so that others can learn from it, rather than make unsubstantiated statements.

9E isn't the only airline to work a CRJ with a staffing level of 3-4 total agents. 99% of these flights are worked without incident. A complete investigation should be completed to find out why before anyone screams that staffing levels are the only reason it happened. The facts don't support that finding.

Condolences to friends and family of the agent. May they find peace.
 
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Bruce
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 9:35 am

Why not do it the old fashioned way - no jet bridges, walk the pax out to the plane stairs. i seem to remember not too long ago, maybe '98 - 2000, most RJ's boarded this way but now every little plane's got a jet bridge. Or....forget the elevator and just have someone walk the bag down the stairs to the ramp.

Bruce
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SHUPirate1
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting ROACSM9E (Reply 21):
I think that everyone is losing sight of what really happened here... we have had a huge tragedy in our airline. We need not point fingers at the management and the way things are done. We need to remember the young life that has been lost and the remaining employees that need to go on in that station.

In the near-term, completely right. However, as time goes on (and I'll be the first to admit that right now is not the right time for it), somebody needs to look in the mirror and think "what safety precautions could we have had in place to avoid this". Granted, it's easy for somebody to say something behind a computer screen, but without a doubt, management is eventually going to have to brainstorm whether anything could have been done to make things less likely, be it staff better, provide safer equipment, eschew the jetway in favor of airstairs, ditch the dual-tiered cart in favor of walking the bags down, or something else outside the box.
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afrikaskyes
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 9:57 am

Why not do it the old fashioned way - no jet bridges, walk the pax out to the plane stairs. i seem to remember not too long ago, maybe '98 - 2000, most RJ's boarded this way but now every little plane's got a jet bridge. Or....forget the elevator and just have someone walk the bag down the stairs to the ramp

Airlines that allow passengers to disembark via the stair case contructed into the aircract (CRJ) have pending lawsuits because of falls. The CRJ stair case is unsafe. Ice and snow accumulate onto the steps and become very hazardous. I personally helped 20, maybe 30 people who started to fall or have fallen as a result of Canadairs poorly designed stair case.

The design of the CRJ stair case IS the reason why our airline went all jet bridge. Passenger comfort had nothing to do with their decision to go all jet bridge. The law suits and and the frequent "incident reports" flooding the baskets at the corporate office because of careless deplaning passengers, is.
 
OGGFBORefueler
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 10:25 am

My deepest condolences to the friends and the family... Sad

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irobertson
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 10:55 am

Quoting Afrikaskyes (Reply 27):
The law suits and and the frequent "incident reports" flooding the baskets at the corporate office because of careless deplaning passengers, is.

I don't doubt the truth of your statements and I'm sure the stairs aren't great, but frankly, people will sue over anything these days, especially if they accidentally lose their footing on someone else's property. Its a bit preposterous, imho, and its really getting out of hand. There are no stairs that are trip proof, water and snow proof, etc.

But we're a little off topic now.

Sad day at DAY for sure, condolences from Canada. Hopefully something can be done about this lift business. I've taken CRJs from YYZ a few times, we always board via stairs (but then again, it's also been at the temporary satellite Jazz terminal, which has no jetways). My feelings are that the source of the problems lie in a) poorly designed overhead carry-on compartments in CRJs, b) lack of strict enforcement of carry-on baggage size rules. These two things would negate the need for what AC calls "Skycheck" for its CRJs. In trying to deal with the situation now? Take as much precaution as possible not to hurt yourself and perhaps a new lift design is in store?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 12:29 pm

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 29):
My feelings are that the source of the problems lie in a) poorly designed overhead carry-on compartments in CRJs, b) lack of strict enforcement of carry-on baggage size rules.

I fail to see how enforcement of carryon rules have anything to do with this. There are plenty of legal carryons that do not fit in the cabin, and carriers have developed gate-checking procedures for this. It would seem to me that everyone wins here. The carrier has fewer chances to lose or mishandle the bag, and the customer avoids having to wait at baggage claim. I'd even be in favor of carriers permitting unlimited gate checking on mainline flights if the infrastructure was there.
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727forever
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 2:29 pm

Quoting Kuna (Reply 13):
First of all I suggest this post for deletion for being distasteful in the light of what happened.

I disagree. This is his opinion. I am also quite suspect of 9E as an organization as a result of their hiring practices and abnormally high rate of incidents as compared to the rest of the industry. That being said, this is a horrible incident that has less to do with the organization and more with the device being used. This system is obviously defective and is quite unfortunate that this young woman had to die before anyone would take note of the inherrent design flaws. However, as well all know, it takes spilled blood before anything will be improved in the airline industry.

My condolences.

727forever
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DAYflyer
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 9:25 pm

Quoting ROACSM9E (Reply 21):
I think that everyone is losing sight of what really happened here... we have had a huge tragedy in our airline. We need not point fingers at the management and the way things are done. We need to remember the young life that has been lost and the remaining employees that need to go on in that station.

Well said.

Quoting Bruce (Reply 25):
Or....forget the elevator and just have someone walk the bag down the stairs to the ramp.

I have seen a slide for bags on the side of jet bridges; the elevators, if they really are this dangerous, should be replaced by the slide.
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DAYflyer
Topic Author
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 9:52 pm

The latest update indicates an OSHA investigation is underway. The emergency safety cut-off on the elevator may have been defective.

Apparently she was trying to dislodge a stuck peice of luggage.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 32):

I have seen a slide for bags on the side of jet bridges; the elevators, if they really are this dangerous, should be replaced by the slide.

DH used to really like to raise a belt loader up to the level of the little landing on the outside of the jetway, load bags on that, and drive them around to the hold. That seemed to work pretty well for them (and requires less effort than either the ramp or the elevator). I'm not sure why more carriers haven't tried it.
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Kuna
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Fri May 18, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 34):
Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 32):

I have seen a slide for bags on the side of jet bridges; the elevators, if they really are this dangerous, should be replaced by the slide.


DH used to really like to raise a belt loader up to the level of the little landing on the outside of the jetway, load bags on that, and drive them around to the hold. That seemed to work pretty well for them (and requires less effort than either the ramp or the elevator). I'm not sure why more carriers haven't tried it.

We do that from time to time (not very often) here in SGF. Problem is if you get more than 10 carry-ons the belt is overloaded and the situation is the same....I agree it is easier to do that if there are only a few carry-ons.
Pinnacle Airlines
 
ROACSM9E
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Sun May 20, 2007 9:03 am

I know that the family and staff in DAY would appreciate everyone's kind words. I will be sure to pass this along to the Station Manager and employees.
 
JayDub
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Sun May 20, 2007 9:13 pm

Quoting Nlink (Reply 11):
This is not the first time this kind of accident has happened at Pinnacle. They generally run a very dangerous operation with 3 or 4 people total for the flight.

Sounds like just about any U.S. airline these days.
"Travel is only glamorous in retrospect." - Paul Theroux
 
NLINK
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Sun May 20, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting JayDub (Reply 37):
Quoting Nlink (Reply 11):
This is not the first time this kind of accident has happened at Pinnacle. They generally run a very dangerous operation with 3 or 4 people total for the flight.

Sounds like just about any U.S. airline these days

This is including the whole operation with the checkin counter, ramp and gate etc.
 
JayDub
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RE: Pinnacle Employee Killed At DAY

Sun May 20, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting NLINK (Reply 38):
This is including the whole operation with the checkin counter, ramp and gate etc.

Exactly my point.
"Travel is only glamorous in retrospect." - Paul Theroux