worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:03 am

Delta Gets Certificate To Fly To South Pacific
By Fili Sagapolutele in Pago Pago
Sunday: May 06, 2007


SUBSCRIBE TO Pacific Magazine
PRINT

The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) has granted U.S. based Delta Air Lines Inc., authority to hold a "blanket open-skies certificate" to operate flights between the United States and four countries in the South Pacific including Samoa and Tonga.

This approval was made possible because Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands, New Zealand and the United States are signatory countries to the Multilateral Agreement on the Liberalization of International Air Transportation (MALIAT) open skies agreement, according to DOT records reviewed by Pacific Magazine.

-Other countries who are part of MALIAT agreement and now Delta is allowed to operate to and from are Brunei, Chile and Singapore, said DOT.

more here

http://www.pacificmagazine.net/news/...rtificate-to-fly-to-south-pacific-
 
AV8AJET
Posts: 1091
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:10 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:07 am

Excellent news for DL. Might be sometime before we see any of these become DL destinations. I look forward to the day DL goes to Australia!!!
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
PlaneGuy27
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:38 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:12 am

Pago Pago needs to wake up and smell the coffee! This means absolutely nothing. US has Open Skies with Uganda, Chad and over 70 countries. That doesn't mean they are serving there anytime soon. The Open Skies certificate application just streamlines their efforts for places like the European Union, India, Canada, etc.

Also, Iisn't Pago Pago is a federally subsidized service for Hawaiian Airlines right now so the market can't be that untapped?
 
Venezuela747
Posts: 1374
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:36 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:14 am

Would they do this out of LAX? Is SLC-SYD even possible?
ROLL TIDE!!!
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:15 am

The day Delta starts serving Samoa, Cook Islands, and Tonga will be the day hell freezes over.
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting Venezuela747 (Reply 3):
Would they do this out of LAX? Is SLC-SYD even possible?

any south-pacific routes will be out of LAX or ATL if aircraft range warrants.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13174
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:25 am

These routes warrant 737-800 service from HNL, not 767 service from LAX.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
These routes warrant 737-800 service from HNL, not 767 service from LAX.

Except for this one with a 777-200LR.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
New Zealand
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13174
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 7):
Except for this one with a 777-200LR.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Thread starter):
New Zealand

That route warrants a 787-9, the 777 for any other airline except Air New Zealand is too much capacity on the LAX-Auckland route.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:34 am

I don't see Australia mentioned in these rights. IMO, without SYD, it's unlikely DL would begin service to the South Pacific, even AKL. (although I'd dearly love to see it). As for Samoa and Tonga - HIGHLY unlikely to happen. What little service there is now to those islands seems nicely covered by NZ (not sure if HA still flies any SoPac services?). In the past, the only reason for U.S. carriers to serve those destinations was aircraft range limitations. My guess if DL gets the rights, we would see LAX-SYD/AKL nonstops, and thats about it.
 
rb211
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:09 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:38 am

All I can say is SINGAPORE!  goodvibes 
Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
That route warrants a 787-9, the 777 for any other airline except Air New Zealand is too much capacity on the LAX-Auckland route.

The 789 can only carry 80k that far. That's about 190 pax and 40k of cargo, or a full load and 25k of cargo. Pretty thin.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:56 am

Interesting........now, the key question is: what does Delta have in mind? While Samoa, Tonga and the Cook islands all sound interesting and sexy, Delta clearly has other plans in connection with obtaining this authority.

New Zealand is part of this grouping........while an ATL-SYD nonstop would be a strech even for a 772LR, how about ATL-AKL-SYD? There have been all kinds of chat suggesting that DL is looking at serving SYD, and although DL may attempt to develop LAX into some type of Pacific gateway in the future, wouldnt DL running a flight to the South Pacific from its mega hub in ATL make much more sense? DL rules at ATL, there is no competiton out of ATL (or any other hub) in the eastern US, and DL has proved that it can make a success out of flights from ATL to far off places (think DKR/JNB, for example).

And, as pointed out above, SIN also seems to be part of the package: if DL does proceed with constructing an Asian route system, SIN would be a key destination.

Lots to think about........
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
Interesting........now, the key question is: what does Delta have in mind?

Maybe buy up Hawaiian? Would be an interesting twist... If fuel wasn't so damn expensive out there, HNL is a great pacific rim jump point for the 787.

[Edited 2007-05-18 18:04:59]
 
DIA
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
ATL-SYD nonstop would be a strech even for a 772LR

Would it be a stretch for an LR? I don't know about that.

Somehow I see potential 777-200LR routes written all over this South Pacific cert.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
777D
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:27 pm

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 1:08 am

I might use my miles with Delta.........AKL would be nice..........why not SEA and/or PDX again? Untapped market in PNW..........With Northwest, Air France (starting in June) and Alaska feeding these flights to AKL would work?
 
PlaneGuy27
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:38 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 1):
Excellent news for DL. Might be sometime before we see any of these become DL destinations. I look forward to the day DL goes to Australia!!!



Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 9):
don't see Australia mentioned in these rights. IMO, without SYD, it's unlikely DL would begin service to the South Pacific, even AKL. (although I'd dearly love to see it).

Australia is NOT an open skies partner with the U.S. for passenger services (cargo only) so this certification has nothing to do with possible Sydney routes at all. I believe over 50 airlines have already applied for these broad certificates including Frontier which means we can all start speculating on F9s new services between Denver, Tonga, Uganda and Cabo Verde.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 1:46 am

This DOT award, has NOTHING to do with any desire or potential of DL serving these markets.

This blanket authority was issued by the DOT simply as a formality.

The DOT back on April 3rd invited all US air carriers to apply for blanket authorizations covering authorities to serve all countries which participate in open-skies with the United States.
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf100/464092_web.pdf
This was simply a clerical exercise by the DOT in granting permission for all US airlines to serve all potential open sky members and do avoid the need to apply for individual permits as had been tradition.

Delta's and just about every other major US airlines application was simply based on this, and no other clear desire to serve an particular market.
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=465019&docketid=27790

To read anything more into this is simply fantasy on peoples part. One could make the same outlandish assumptions for every other US airline whom applied for the same exact blanket authority aswell back in April.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
787EWR
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:41 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 9):
I don't see Australia mentioned in these rights. IMO, without SYD, it's unlikely DL would begin service to the South Pacific, even AKL. (although I'd dearly love to see it). As for Samoa and Tonga - HIGHLY unlikely to happen. What little service there is now to those islands seems nicely covered by NZ (not sure if HA still flies any SoPac services?). In the past, the only reason for U.S. carriers to serve those destinations was aircraft range limitations. My guess if DL gets the rights, we would see LAX-SYD/AKL nonstops, and thats about it.

I don't believe that there is an open sky agreement beteween Australia and the United States. SYD-LAX is dominated by QF and UA. Singapore is trying to get authorization to fly it, but Australia keeps blocking it. Virgin Blue will begin 777 service from Brisbane to the US in 2009(?)

What this may do however, is open up the possibility of Delta providing seats to islands in the South Pacific for SkyTeam members. China Airline and Singapore(to my knowledge) do not fly any routes to the South Pacific. Should Singapore secure the rights to fly to Sydney from LAX, I would imagine those flights would be full of Delta customers now that DL has announce LAX as a focus city. Another option might be Delta creating an Alliance with Air New Zealand or even Virgin Blue to provide service to these areas.

Bottom line is, Delta came out of bankruptcy saying they were going to be different, well here it comes.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 19):
What this may do however, is open up the possibility of Delta providing seats to islands in the South Pacific for SkyTeam members. China Airline and Singapore(to my knowledge) do not fly any routes to the South Pacific

Its highly unlikely that DL will serve any of the South Pacific islands........there is very little traffic and the distances are far. The populations of Tonga, the Cook Islands, etc are very small, and the number of tourists travelling to these destinations is limited; Air New Zealand has this market covered and there is really very little room for competition. (CO, AA, PA, UA and QF all had South Pacific route systems at one time, and there is a reason that they all ceased flying to Islands.) The only real money to be made is on nonstop routes from the US to Australia and maybe New Zealand.

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 19):
Another option might be Delta creating an Alliance with Air New Zealand

Air New Zealand is a sold STAR alliance member and works closely with UA.

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 19):
Bottom line is, Delta came out of bankruptcy saying they were going to be different, well here it comes.

Different - yes, Crazy - no! Dont look for Delta airplanes at the Cook Islands or Tonga in the near future.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5828
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 2:20 am

The only place on the South Pacific Delta will ever fly to is Australia, may be New Zealand. Islands FORGET ABOUT IT. Sydney is the only market those 777LR's are going to any time soon from LAX or Atlanta. I'm looking for LAX to Orient international flights from Delta.
 
787EWR
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:41 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
Its highly unlikely that DL will serve any of the South Pacific islands........there is very little traffic and the distances are far. The populations of Tonga, the Cook Islands, etc are very small, and the number of tourists travelling to these destinations is limited; Air New Zealand has this market covered and there is really very little room for competition. (CO, AA, PA, UA and QF all had South Pacific route systems at one time, and there is a reason that they all ceased flying to Islands.) The only real money to be made is on nonstop routes from the US to Australia and maybe New Zealand.

You may well be correct. However, I believe Delta still has service to HNL from ATL. Perhaps a mini-mini hub or a focus city. I don't know the demographics of the islands, but with recent threads on Air Tahiti and their problems, this may be an oppotunity, albeit, unlikely.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
Air New Zealand is a sold STAR alliance member and works closely with UA

I was not aware of that, Thanks.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
Different - yes, Crazy - no! Dont look for Delta airplanes at the Cook Islands or Tonga in the near future.

This is the airline business. I agree, I can't see a 777 landing daily on Pago Pago, but I never say never. Why would Delta ask for the rights if they are not planning to usecoadeshare the routes?
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 22):
Why would Delta ask for the rights if they are not planning to usecoadeshare the routes?

Here is your answer:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 18):
This DOT award, has NOTHING to do with any desire or potential of DL serving these markets.

This blanket authority was issued by the DOT simply as a formality.

The DOT back on April 3rd invited all US air carriers to apply for blanket authorizations covering authorities to serve all countries which participate in open-skies with the United States.
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf100/464092_web.pdf
This was simply a clerical exercise by the DOT in granting permission for all US airlines to serve all potential open sky members and do avoid the need to apply for individual permits as had been tradition.

Delta's and just about every other major US airlines application was simply based on this, and no other clear desire to serve an particular market.
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=465019&docketid=27790



To read anything more into this is simply fantasy on peoples part. One could make the same outlandish assumptions for every other US airline whom applied for the same exact blanket authority aswell back in April.

But as I said above.......maybe DL is thinking about an ATL-AKL-SYD route?

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
Interesting........now, the key question is: what does Delta have in mind? While Samoa, Tonga and the Cook islands all sound interesting and sexy, Delta clearly has other plans in connection with obtaining this authority.

New Zealand is part of this grouping........while an ATL-SYD nonstop would be a strech even for a 772LR, how about ATL-AKL-SYD? There have been all kinds of chat suggesting that DL is looking at serving SYD, and although DL may attempt to develop LAX into some type of Pacific gateway in the future, wouldnt DL running a flight to the South Pacific from its mega hub in ATL make much more sense? DL rules at ATL, there is no competiton out of ATL (or any other hub) in the eastern US, and DL has proved that it can make a success out of flights from ATL to far off places (think DKR/JNB, for example).

And, as pointed out above, SIN also seems to be part of the package: if DL does proceed with constructing an Asian route system, SIN would be a key destination.

Lots to think about........
 
SpencerII
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:15 pm

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 2:52 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 21):
The only place on the South Pacific Delta will ever fly to is Australia, may be New Zealand. Islands FORGET ABOUT IT. Sydney is the only market those 777LR's are going to any time soon from LAX or Atlanta. I'm looking for LAX to Orient international flights from Delta.

don't be so sure. Market Planning at DL is an all new organization who thinks and acts differently than
pre-BK days.
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting Venezuela747 (Reply 3):
Is SLC-SYD even possible?

Tech-wise with a 772LR SLC-SYD is possible, but O&D $$$ dictates a stop at LAX before continuing to SYD. Somehow when the much rumored 787 comes on line for DL I think ATL-SYD will be a stronger likelihood since LAX-SYD has as much capacity as it currently has. Who knows, perhaps DL could start a huge comprehensive codeshare with AS and do SEA-SYD which would also be more viable than many think.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
Different - yes, Crazy - no! Dont look for Delta airplanes at the Cook Islands or Tonga in the near future.

Maybe an occasional charter of Americans attempting to behave like Canadians showing that Fiji and the Cook Islands can be discovered like the D.R.!  biggrin 
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
User avatar
CV880
Posts: 936
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:56 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacif

Sat May 19, 2007 3:02 am

DL has no codeshare with either AQ or HA and very thin service to Hawaii after August07. It's about time to marry HA and use the 767-300's to roam the Pacific (for the interim), then add services from LAX when aircraft become available.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 3:02 am

Quoting SpencerII (Reply 24):
don't be so sure. Market Planning at DL is an all new organization who thinks and acts differently than
pre-BK days.

Perhaps, but as far as being different goes, I'll refer Dutchjet's quote:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
Different - yes, Crazy - no!

The chance of DL starting anything to the South Pacific outside of OZ and NZ is about as high as DL buying the A380 - No chance in hell.
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting CV880 (Reply 26):
DL has no codeshare with either AQ or HA and very thin service to Hawaii after August07. It's about time to marry HA and use the 767-300's to roam the Pacific (for the interim), then add services from LAX when aircraft become available.

DL is in the process of reconfiguring their service to Hawaii. There are strong rumors that all service to Hawaii directly from SLC could be completely eliminated or at least one-stopped via LAX after August. Perhaps daily SLC-HNL service on a non-ER 763 will survive (once the aircraft are ETOPs ready), but other than that look for all service to the islands to go via LAX (OGG, KOA) after this fall. ATL-HNL might survive on a 764ER, but it isn't a sure or safe bet.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
And, as pointed out above, SIN also seems to be part of the package: if DL does proceed with constructing an Asian route system, SIN would be a key destination.

Lots to think about........

SQ seams to make EWR-SIN work. How viable is ATL-SIN vs. LAX-SIN?
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
rb211
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:09 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 22):
This is the airline business. I agree, I can't see a 777 landing daily on Pago Pago, but I never say never. Why would Delta ask for the rights if they are not planning to usecoadeshare the routes?

You took the words right out of my mouth. While it sounds crazy to do an "A-B" routing, routing an 777LR say from:

LAX-PPG-AKL-LAX 4158nm-1561nm-5655nm
or
ATL-SIN-AKL-ATL 8652nm-4549nm-7038nm

ATL-SIN sounds pretty tempting too.

Just a thought.
Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 25):

Maybe an occasional charter of Americans attempting to behave like Canadians showing that Fiji and the Cook Islands can be discovered like the D.R.!

Fiji is an interesting spot, I was there a few years ago.......has potential but its just too far away for mainstream US tourism. And, bringing plane loads of vacationers headed to all-in resorts in Fiji is probably not part of DL's business plan......charters are an interesting idea.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 29):



SQ seams to make EWR-SIN work. How viable is ATL-SIN vs. LAX-SIN?

LAX-SIN nonstop means head to head competition with SQ to its home base in SIN, probably not the best idea. But ATL-SIN is interesting........DL can make anything reasonable work out of ATL in my opinion. So much depends upon whether DL is serious about rebuilding the ex-WA LAX hub and turn it into a Pacific gateway city. Lots of rumors, but still few hard facts. DL's addition of lots of RJ flights at LAX could be the first step, or not.......time will tell.
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 3:41 am

Quote:
The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) has granted U.S. based Delta Air Lines Inc., authority to hold a "blanket open-skies certificate" to operate flights between the United States and four countries in the South Pacific including Samoa and Tonga.

This approval was made possible because Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands, New Zealand and the United States are signatory countries to the Multilateral Agreement on the Liberalization of International Air Transportation (MALIAT) open skies agreement, according to DOT records reviewed by Pacific Magazine.



Quote:
Pago Pago needs to wake up and smell the coffee! This means absolutely nothing. US has Open Skies with Uganda, Chad and over 70 countries. That doesn't mean they are serving there anytime soon. The Open Skies certificate application just streamlines their efforts for places like the European Union, India, Canada, etc.

Also, Iisn't Pago Pago is a federally subsidized service for Hawaiian Airlines right now so the market can't be that untapped?

I think the nation being mentioned should properly be listed as "Western Samoa", not to be confused with the American territory of "American Samoa".

Western Samoa is an independent nation, subject to international flights. Any American carrier that wants to serve Pago Pago is welcome to, provided they have the equipment to do so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_Islands

Quote:
The Cook Islands (Cook Islands Mâori: Kûki 'Âirani) are a self-governing parliamentary democracy in free association with New Zealand.

Don't ask me how the international laws apply to air service to this time of situation...
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
omoo
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 3:42 am

wheeeeee ......... Nukuʻalofa here i come !
Fly Air Popobawa
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 3:57 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 31):
Fiji is an interesting spot, I was there a few years ago.......has potential but its just too far away for mainstream US tourism. And, bringing plane loads of vacationers headed to all-in resorts in Fiji is probably not part of DL's business plan......charters are an interesting idea.

 checkmark  Highly doubtful we'll ever see Fiji or the Cook Islands very high up there. Australia or Japan likely remain their best draws, but their isolation does set them back. That said it is quite interesting how well the Maldives, Seychelles and Mauritius/LaReunion have done from Europe given some similar geographic distances. As for charters, I really think that is the domain of our U.K. and Canadian friends who are the experts at marketing them along with all-inclusive resorts. The Americans are still in the process of discovering all-inclusives as a perhaps cheaper form of a cruise alternative or quick tropical getaway vs. 2-3 weeks at a time as their British Empire counterparts utilize them.  twocents 
Back on topic for DL doing Pacific routes, I really think that ATL-SIN might be one they will take aim at serving once they have more 772LRs in the fleet over the next year. LAX was once a huge Western Airlines operation, but the flight uses and business and leisure travel began to change quite rapidly during the 1980s, hence the shift to SLC and the lack of vision for LAX with the post merger executive staff.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
rb211
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:09 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 4:06 am

Does anyone see the possibility of PPT in there somewhere, or is that just wishful thinking.?  pray  (And it probably is)
Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
 
787EWR
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:41 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 31):
LAX-SIN nonstop means head to head competition with SQ to its home base in SIN, probably not the best idea. But ATL-SIN is interesting........DL can make anything reasonable work out of ATL in my opinion. So much depends upon whether DL is serious about rebuilding the ex-WA LAX hub and turn it into a Pacific gateway city. Lots of rumors, but still few hard facts. DL's addition of lots of RJ flights at LAX could be the first step, or not.......time will tell.

I agree with LAX-SIN, but competition is competition. I would imagine American frequent flyers have more Delta miles than Singapore Girl miles. Delta seems to want to expand in the Pacific, so LAX would be one of the keys. Also, I looked on Wikipedia, the only American airlines that fly there are United and Northwest and neither do it from LAX.

As for ATL, there is that old saying, "on your way to heaven, you have to transfer at Atlanta". Think of the "world's busiest airport(traffic and passengers) with direct international links to Singapore, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Shanghai and one day, maybe Sydney. I'm not going to say that I am a DL lover, but to me, pending economic fluctuations, DL seems to be putting the right sticks in the right places in the ground.
 
OGGFBORefueler
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 7:27 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting RB211 (Reply 35):
Does anyone see the possibility of PPT in there somewhere, or is that just wishful thinking.?  pray  (And it probably is)


If I'm not mistaken HA does HNL-PPT services weekly.

Aloha!
Keone
BPA Emp#0254/AOA Badge#69879
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting RB211 (Reply 35):
Does anyone see the possibility of PPT in there somewhere, or is that just wishful thinking.?  pray  (And it probably is)

Unless TN goes kaput, and even then AF does LAX-PPT. So SkyTeam has that one covered.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 4:58 am

"western" has not been a part of Samoa's name for 10 years.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ws.html
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting RB211 (Reply 35):
Does anyone see the possibility of PPT in there somewhere, or is that just wishful thinking.? (And it probably is)

Very unlikely......PPT is a tough market, just ask CO which flew there many years ago. Demand is not the problem, yields are...... And, as you point out, money losing Air Tahiti Nui puts a lot of seats into the US-PPT market.
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 40):
Demand is not the problem,

Unless it is from JFK where "it isn't there" when a few other west coast markets could be much better for north America west coast to PPT service (discussed in a few past threads; SFO, YVR and SEA all being better likely success stories for TN if they tried them instead of NYC).
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 41):

Unless it is from JFK where "it isn't there" when a few other west coast markets could be much better for north America west coast to PPT service (discussed in a few past threads; SFO, YVR and SEA all being better likely success stories for TN if they tried them instead of NYC).

True, the JFK experiment has been a failure......Air Tahiti also hoped to establish itself in the NYC-Australia market by offering effecient JFK-PPT-SYD schedules, that also did not work out. As for the other possible cities mentioned, its possible but not definite that any of the routes would be profitable. Problem is that Tahiti indirectly competes with so many other beach destinations that are closer and far more reasonably priced....thus, lower fares are needed to fill the airplanes to Tahiti and airlines struggle to make profits on the route.

I was lucky enough to visit Tahiti, its very very beautiful and worth the trip.....but it is expensive to get to and accommodation on the islands is costy...and those $5.00 cokes and $7.00 beers get very tiresome after a few days.

But, back to the topic, as discussed above.....we could see DL at some point in Australia, AKL is a longshot, and its very unlikely that DL will fly to any of the South Pacific islands.
 
airbazar
Posts: 6807
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 5:14 am

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 36):
As for ATL, there is that old saying, "on your way to heaven, you have to transfer at Atlanta".

I have yet to set foot in ATL and I doubt I'll ever do it unless one day I have to travel to S.America on DL but even then, MIA of IAH will probably win  Smile I have a very hard time understanding how a hub in such a bad geographic location can be so large. ATL is almost always out of the way. Even DL themselves don't think it's that good, looking at their expansion of JFK.
 
rwy04lga
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:21 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 5:15 am

As for ATL, there is that old saying, "on your way to heaven, you have to transfer at Atlanta".

I think the saying goes 'Whether you're going to Heaven or Hell, you'll have to change in Atlanta'

Quoting RB211 (Reply 35):
Does anyone see the possibility of PPT in there somewhere

ATL-PPT anyone? Count me in. Better than NAN!  yuck 
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 42):
But, back to the topic, as discussed above.....we could see DL at some point in Australia, AKL is a longshot, and its very unlikely that DL will fly to any of the South Pacific islands.

Could we see U.S. to other Australia airports other than SYD (Kingsford-Smith)? From a U. S. destination? I'm not the Australia expert on trans-oceanic air travel, but what few Australian's I know all have to go via Sydney even though they might be heading to Adelaide, Brisbane or even Perth.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 42):
True, the JFK experiment has been a failure......Air Tahiti also hoped to establish itself in the NYC-Australia market by offering efficient JFK-PPT-SYD schedules, that also did not work out. As for the other possible cities mentioned, its possible but not definite that any of the routes would be profitable. Problem is that Tahiti indirectly competes with so many other beach destinations that are closer and far more reasonably priced....thus, lower fares are needed to fill the airplanes to Tahiti and airlines struggle to make profits on the route.

 checkmark  So much of the North American population is so very close to the Caribbean, and the west coast is so oriented towards Hawaii. Additionally Tahiti is a southern hemisphere destination which makes it's most viable tourist season during the summer up here in the states & provinces, and culturally summer tropical getaways just don't cut it. So all of the more likelihood we won't see DL or any other North American based carrier go after the south Pacific islands of paradise. New Zealand is a very small country population wise (4.1 million) and there just won't be the O&D traffic between AKL and any large North American destination, be it LAX, YVR, SFO ATL or NYC to justify increased competition.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
mdl21483
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 6:04 am

i can see DL using 777 service ATL to New Zealand as a stopover for continuation into Sydney and Melbourne, the other smaller routes just wouldnt have enough of a turnover to justify a heavy any larger than the 787 weekly. The problem with any of these potential services would be the timing.
From the shores of the sea we have come afar, we have risen high, among the stars.
 
787EWR
Posts: 162
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:41 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 43):
I have a very hard time understanding how a hub in such a bad geographic location can be so large. ATL is almost always out of the way. Even DL themselves don't think it's that good, looking at their expansion of JFK.

""The company has its roots in Huff Daland Dusters, which was founded in 1924 in Macon, Georgia by several partners including Collett E. Woolman becoming the world's first aerial crop dusting company. Huff Daland moved to Monroe, Louisiana the following year. In 1928, Huff Daland Dusters was purchased by C.E. Woolman and renamed Delta Air Service after the Mississippi Delta, where its route connected Dallas, Texas to Jackson, Mississippi, via Shreveport and Monroe. The original directors of Delta Air Service were C.H. McHenry, Travis Oliver, and M.S. Biedenharn. By 1934, Delta began mail service from Charleston to Fort Worth, with stops in Columbia, Augusta, Atlanta, Birmingham, and Meridian along the way.[citation needed]

In 1941, Delta moved its headquarters from Monroe to Atlanta, to center itself along its new route network that now stretched to Chicago, Miami, and New Orleans""

The quote is from Wikipedia.

As for the New York expansion, they have a "modern terminal" at an airport in one of the largest cities in the world. They have stiff competition on the New York to Florida routes which have been and will probabaly always be valuable. JFK is the primary east coast gateway for travel to and from Eastern and Western Europe and the middle east.
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 4953
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacif

Sat May 19, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 12):
The 789 can only carry 80k that far.

Not that far off; NZ are probably only hauling 90K max on AKL-SFO on their 772's. Some one who knows his "stuff" told me it is all about balance. He tells me there is more to it than just "raw" payload.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
how about ATL-AKL-SYD?



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
wouldnt DL running a flight to the South Pacific from its mega hub in ATL make much more sense?

Not as much sense as from JFK. An example is DL's ATL-JFK-BOM service, I believe it is. JFK-SYD would sure get QF's attention. They have nothing on the horizon that could compete. If they can talk Boeing into building a 787-8HGW then it might be possible. However for DL, the westbound payload is unlikely to "cut" it unless they are satisfied with full passenger load.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 45):

Could we see U.S. to other Australia airports other than SYD (Kingsford-Smith)? From a U. S. destination? I'm not the Australia expert on trans-oceanic air travel, but what few Australian's I know all have to go via Sydney even though they might be heading to Adelaide, Brisbane or even Perth.

SYD and MEL are the cities where there is money to be made due to high demand, premium and business traffic, etc. The populations at ADL, BSB and PER (which is 5 hours flying beyond SYD) are far smaller and there is less of those all important premium pax......while BSB could be a potential gateway city, the market is far more leisure oriented which usually results in yield issues.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 43):

I have yet to set foot in ATL and I doubt I'll ever do it unless one day I have to travel to S.America on DL but even then, MIA of IAH will probably win I have a very hard time understanding how a hub in such a bad geographic location can be so large. ATL is almost always out of the way. Even DL themselves don't think it's that good, looking at their expansion of JFK.

I, and I am sure many others, will disagree with you concerning ATL - I think the size and success of DL's ATL hub (and AirTrans ATL hub) speak for themselves. As for DL using JFK as its transatlantic gateway, NYC is the ideal gateway city for flights to Europe, India, the Middle East, etc.....lots of money making business and O&D traffic, a good geographic position for these services, etc. CO has done so very well with its EWR/NYC hub......DL, since it took over the PA atlantic route system, for years curiously forgot about NYC and focused on other ideas, but that has now changed. ATL, JFK (and CVG) work just fine for the new Delta.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta Obtains Certificate To Serve South Pacific

Sat May 19, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 43):
Even DL themselves don't think it's that good, looking at their expansion of JFK.

If DL doesn't like ATL, then explain to me ATL-ICN, ATL-VIE, ATL-DXB, ATL-LOS or ATL-PRG, all of which DL are adding this year alone.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: airnorth, alfa164, Amiga500, AR385, AS512, blooBirdie, Carlton, dazbo5, flyingclrs727, Gemuser, Google Adsense [Bot], Mani87, MGA86, Miami, mpj, msycajun, OMP777X, SCQ83, sutrakhk, TheF15Ace, VirginFlyer, Yahoo [Bot] and 184 guests