peh
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Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Sun May 20, 2007 3:54 pm

Australian terror suspect, David Hicks, arrived home today in a chartered Gulfstream Jet. It left Cuba and stopped in Tahiti for refueling.

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200705/r144739_505443.jpg

I'm trying to track down the registration number so that I can learn a little more about it (ie: chartered from whom?).

Can anyone out there help me?
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zeke
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Sun May 20, 2007 4:04 pm

Quoting Peh (Thread starter):
Australian terror suspect, David Hicks,

The person pleaded guilty, and was convicted, why call him a suspect ?
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
peh
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Sun May 20, 2007 4:21 pm

Good point !

He only pleaded guilty recently. The whole process has been so drawn out that "terror suspect" has become part of his name.

The sentence should have read "confessed terrorist conspirator etc etc". Thanks
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peh
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Sun May 20, 2007 6:59 pm

OK. I've managed to track it down with the help of a new friend. The registration is N90AM and it seems to belong to a company called Time Works Leasing. It's seen mainly in Northern America.

[Edited 2007-05-20 12:01:25]
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peh
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Sun May 20, 2007 7:08 pm

Now, this is strange. I've googled Time Works Leasing and there's nothing there. It's odd that such a company doesn't have a presence on the web.

Has anyone ever heard of them?
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JayDub
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Sun May 20, 2007 7:18 pm

Quoting Peh (Reply 4):
Now, this is strange. I've googled Time Works Leasing and there's nothing there. It's odd that such a company doesn't have a presence on the web.

Has anyone ever heard of them?

Wouldn't be surprising if that was just a "front company" for a government agency.
"Travel is only glamorous in retrospect." - Paul Theroux
 
ltbewr
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Sun May 20, 2007 8:06 pm

I am quite sure that info about this flight and the chartered company was done in a way to limit public disclosure for obvious reasons. The company is probably a private company, perhaps one set up for the the US Government with a front name to protect them from any political or economic retaliation, the security of Mr. Hicks and the people transporting him. One also has to consider that Mr. Hicks is on every commercial flight no-fly list in the world, his transport was from a site that is a political no-mans-land, couldn't be transported via the USA, and just to prevent embarrassing questions, then there was no real other options.
 
peh
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Sun May 20, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
The company is probably a private company, perhaps one set up for the the US Government

You have to be right. There's no way a company leasing private jets can afford not to have website. In fact, there's no mention of them on the web at all. Very suspicious.
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sw733
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Sun May 20, 2007 10:20 pm

If you try to track that tail number on flightaware, you get this message....

TIME WORKS LEASING LLC (TETERBORO NJ)
This flight is not available for tracking per request from the owner/operator
 
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zeke
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Sun May 20, 2007 10:31 pm

Quoting Peh (Reply 7):

You have to be right. There's no way a company leasing private jets can afford not to have website. In fact, there's no mention of them on the web at all. Very suspicious.

I think it is all legit, it would be part of the Atlantic Aviation Flight Services fleet, it is common for corporate jets to have a LLC as a holding company to own the aircraft for legal liability and tax reasons.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Sun May 20, 2007 11:56 pm

Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
ltbewr
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 8):
TIME WORKS LEASING LLC (TETERBORO NJ)
This flight is not available for tracking per request from the owner/operator

I live about 3-4 miles from Teterboro, NJ airport (TEB), one of the biggest biz jet base airports in the USA, so I am not surprised at a corporate base there. As suggested above, Time Works Leasing LLC is probably a specially constructed subsidiary of a larger company for security, ownership or ownership hiding, tax and/or legitimate business reasons.
I am also not surprised at the request to not have a flight tracked as in this case for obvious security reasons, but I assume it could be done at the request of any customer of a charter flight for business or corporate security reasons. A Fortune 500 class company may not want to disclose the travel of the CEO, top executives or their families for security reasons. In the past, investors would attempt to track certain charter flights involving corporate executives or financial services companies to get advanced lead of a big financial deals, like a corporate takeover or possibility of it so that they could make money on.
 
tomascubero
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 6:04 am

It's odd, the last flight conducted with the N number inside FAA airspace was:

TN90AM GLF5 TEB 22:30 MIA 00:56 05-18-2007

I know a fail-safe method to track Blocked aircraft if you know the tail number and on a query with N90AM from the 13th to the 20th of May, that is the only flight returned. From MIA it must have gone to Guantanamo, then Tahiti and finally to Australia.

This is very possibly a US Govt plane since its not the first time I've seen at SJO some nice G-V's and Global Express with a Civil registration but flying with an akward callsign, and then leaving with the registration. There are some very weird movements with some of these jets and I wouldn't be surprised it flew with a military or govt. callsign on the flight to Australia.

Regards,
Tomas.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting Peh (Reply 4):
I've googled Time Works Leasing and there's nothing there. It's odd that such a company doesn't have a presence on the web.

Dozens of business jets are registered to paper companies that have no website or other public presence other than usually a lawyer's office that takes care of the paperwork.
 
corey07850
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 6:36 am

N90AM is Time Warner (aka Time Works or whatever it's called)... Gorgeous plane and is usually flying celebs and stuff around so I HIGHLY doubt this aircraft is the one carting a convicted terrorist around... Perhaps your friend got their source wrong as I really can't picture a company like Time Warner letting someone use their aircraft like this?

Edit: As Zeke points out, I believe this aircraft is available for charter from AAFS, so who knows... certainly a nice way to fly

[Edited 2007-05-20 23:41:29]
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting Peh (Reply 4):
Has anyone ever heard of them?

I'm sure the CIA have.
come visit the south pacific
 
reins485
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 7:32 am

Well on this site it says there are two Gulfstream G-IV and one Piper is registered at that address.

http://www.planedesire.com/aircraft/desire/N90AM/details.html

Click on the street address and it will pull up the other three planes and then I went to another site that says those airplanes are owned by 711 Air Corp.

http://www.aircraftone.com/aircraft/...fstream_aerospace_g_iv_3980115.asp

Just what I was able to find on the airplane in a few minutes. I don't think it would part of that small fleet that the CIA uses to fly people around the world because most likely the Australian government took control of him when he stepped on to the plane so they would have chartered the airplane.
Alex

[Edited 2007-05-21 00:33:44]
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
One also has to consider that Mr. Hicks

Putting "Mr." before someone's name indicates respect. He certainly deserves none.

Of course, most men riding in a G-V command it.

It's a shame for him to ride in such an aircraft. Of course, there aren't too many other convenient ways for such a long transport and the comfort of the men guarding him is of utmost importance.

M
 
workflyer
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 8:02 am

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 17):
It's a shame for him to ride in such an aircraft. Of course, there aren't too many other convenient ways for such a long transport and the comfort of the men guarding him is of utmost importance

If the US government had not placed a bar on him flying via US airspace he could have flown commercial via LAX.

The Gulfstream was the only thing available save using an airforce plane from either Australia or the USA, and the cost of one of these on such a flight would have been far greater than the op costs of the Gulfstream. It has the range to cover the distance with fewer stops than a smaller Biz Jet.
 
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Goodbye
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 8:24 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 14):
HIGHLY doubt this aircraft is the one carting a convicted terrorist around...

He is not a convicted terrorist. He pleaded guilty to "providing material support for terrorism", which does not make him a terrorist. And after 5 years stuck in that hell hole being subjected to god knows what, wouldn't you plead guilty if it meant you got to go home?
 
Quetzal
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 8:40 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 1):
The person pleaded guilty, and was convicted, why call him a suspect ?

If you were illegally held without trial for 5 years and subjected to mental torture, would you plead guilty? You'd say anything to get your ass out of there.... ever heard of duress?
When you say convicted you conveniently leave out the Kangaroo court part of the story.

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 17):
Putting "Mr." before someone's name indicates respect. He certainly deserves none.

Mr Hicks has been put on record as saying that he will not try and profit from the ordeal that the US and Australian government has put him through..... that surely commands some respect?
If I were him I'd be telling my story so that places like Guantanamo are never allowed to happen again.

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 17):
It's a shame for him to ride in such an aircraft. Of course, there aren't too many other convenient ways for such a long transport and the comfort of the men guarding him is of utmost importance.

Yep, a real tough gig for those guys looking after Mr Hicks.....
No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
 
Mir
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 11:10 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
am also not surprised at the request to not have a flight tracked as in this case for obvious security reasons, but I assume it could be done at the request of any customer of a charter flight for business or corporate security reasons. A Fortune 500 class company may not want to disclose the travel of the CEO, top executives or their families for security reasons. In the past, investors would attempt to track certain charter flights involving corporate executives or financial services companies to get advanced lead of a big financial deals, like a corporate takeover or possibility of it so that they could make money on.

Many operators do hide their flights. I know Proctor & Gamble and Coca-Cola do.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 11:18 am

http://www.adagold.com/

that's the company you're looking for....

Quoting Peh (Reply 2):
The sentence should have read "confessed terrorist conspirator etc etc". Thanks

wrong again..time for you to get educated before commenting on the subject and making yourself look like a novice.
 
koruman
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 12:48 pm

I don't think that there should be any place for politics on this forum.

By all means talk about the plane, or the transit at Tahiti or whatever.

And if you have to bring politics into it, make sure you get your facts right. Hicks is a guy who used to have nasty friends: he is a mentally subnormal man whose military fantasies saw him fight on the same side as the West in Bosnia in support of the Moslems but he then got sucked into more and more extreme Islam until he went to join the Taleban.

That's not something to be proud of, but he's not a "terror suspect" and has not been convicted of terrorism. He plea-bargained that he supported the terrorists. A significant part of the population of London and Bradford in the UK, or Marseilles in France or goodness knows where else would be similarly guilty if other countries actually made it an offence to support the bad guys.

And anyway, one side's "bad guys" are the other side's heroes. I would be horrified if Australians or Americans were refused carriage from Europe to Asia because the countries they would overfly considered their countries' support for Israel to be material support for terrorism. That would be an outrage.

Stick to planes and airports. The world is a fragile place at the moment, and this forum should be a refuge from that.
 
Biman
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 1:06 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 24):
The world is a fragile place at the moment

Hear hear!!
 
n710ps
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 2:17 pm

I echo the sentiments of others to keep the politics out of it because when I get on my rant I will not stop.  Wink
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
jbernie
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 3:42 pm

for better or worse the transport of Hicks was limited to very very few options, given the inability to fly over US airspace it reduces the possibilities even more. Even if the flight is purely to transport 1 person I don't know what agreements Australia has with Mexico and other countries south of there in regards to military planes flying in their airspace.

The first thing to look into in regards to the flight is how the escorts were transported to pick up Hicks. They probably could have flown commercial to LAX on Qantas and then use American into Dallas, pick up the corp jet there and fly down to pick him up. Then top up the fuel and go west and fast to Tahiti and then on down to Oz.

Not being able to track the flight is just using common sense. Although it is always fun to track, there is no reason you need to track 100% of flights 100% of the time.
 
peh
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 6:15 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 22):
wrong again..time for you to get educated before commenting on the subject and making yourself look like a novice.

Man! That's a huge statement from someone who knows me by nothing more than a pseudonym. I'll just assume that you're having a bad day and you're not normally this arrogant.
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peh
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Mon May 21, 2007 7:14 pm

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...1287&filename=11797424247wzmUJ.jpg

The plot thickens. The Australian media is reporting that the aircraft was leased from a company called Adagold. This does not gel at all with the information from Flight Aware or photo databases which say it belongs to Time Works Leasing.

Some newspapers even quoted a guy at Adagold. Why would he claim the plane was theirs?
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tomascubero
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Tue May 22, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting Peh (Reply 28):
The plot thickens. The Australian media is reporting that the aircraft was leased from a company called Adagold. This does not gel at all with the information from Flight Aware or photo databases which say it belongs to Time Works Leasing.

Obviously the govt. can do whatever they want with registration names and they could might have just used this jet for this purpose. As I said before, I've seen common biz jets, with regular corporate paint schemes and N registers flying around as "SHARK" and "COLT" and "THUNDER" which I believe are all military/govt callsigns, and are "registered" to regular companies. Biz jet aviation is by far the most intriguing and interesting aviation and subject for photography since you just never know what you are going to get. I've heard of numerous regularly registered jets which people on Internet claim that are used by the FAA to transport prisoners to Europe.

Regards,
Tomas.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Terror Suspect's First Class Ride

Tue May 22, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting WorkFlyer (Reply 18):
The Gulfstream was the only thing available save using an airforce plane from either Australia or the USA, and the cost of one of these on such a flight would have been far greater than the op costs of the Gulfstream.

Excerpt from today's Washington Post:

Opposition leaders called secrecy surrounding Hicks's 22-hour charter flight, which cost Australia about $500,000, "a farce."

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